@NonSubscribers. What Sub only features are you cool with?

As we get closer to announcements having to do with new Subscriber content, there's been an outpouring of non-subscribers voicing their opinions on what shouldn't be paid content. Since it seems like the majority of current subscribers are cool with whatever since they'll be getting everything anyway, I was wondering what sorts of things the non-subs are cool with. If it's a "everything should be free for everyone" stance that you're taking, then this isn't a question for you. So seriously, non-subs, what are ya'll cool with in terms of subscriber only features.

In addition, I'd like to know if the previous/current sub only stuff was okay with you. (Whisky Media Happy Hour,Thursday Night Throwdown, Big Red Phone, Random PC Game)

I think the only no go area would be to do with new games quick looks and the such. The rest is all ok. Hell I may even sub over the new stuff.

As long as it doesn't break their original promise of never taking anything away that we used to get for free I'm fine with it. When they try to use a technicality like renaming stuff we used to get in a new package to try and circumvent that promise however, I don't care for it. In the case of that PC show, changing the name, adding an iterative number to the end and making it longer doesn't change that it's still just live quicklooks/quicklook throwbacks.
 
And to all the hate replies I will get for posting the above, I don't care what you think or why you think differently. That's my opinion on what they are doing, and I know I'm right and that you're wrong. Just like you know you're right and that I'm wrong. So let's leave all the name calling and childish insults for the kids on the playground and x-box live.
 
EDIT: Somehow missed the other part of the OP's question. I found their old members only system was really nothing more than a glorified donate button, as none of the added features were of any use to me. 
 
I think the BRP idea is neat, but my understanding of how it works currently is that you need to be watching 24/7 and hope that you catch something live. I think to make that really cool they should take all/some of the best conversations that happen and upload them to the site in an archived format for members only. Make it a weekly/Bi-weekly segment for members. That way they will get the people always begging for more random videos of them in the office screwing around to subscribe. As that will fill the void of those style of videos we used to get from back in the old days.

Everything other than the status symbols.   
 
And I don't even care about that very strongly. 

I'm cool with everything so far...

 So let's leave all the name calling and childish insults for the kids on the playground and x-box live.

@crusader8463: I see where you're coming from, but by those standards, it rules out basically any playing of a video game while talking about it on a site that's dedicated to video games. This is why I'm asking what you're cool with, and not what are you NOT cool with. What sort of thing would you be alright with then?

#edit# sorry, you did say that you're good with anything that doesn't break their original promise, but I'm looking for more specific features, videos or articles that would be alright.

@crusader8463: I'm actually really interested in what you think is ok as subonly, not what is not OK(that point has been voiced loud and clear in the last few days)

Since I'm a sub I'm alright with "exclusive content", but I'm genuinely interested what non-subs think are acceptable features (that might them make even consider going sub, without getting angry when they're not and therefor have no access to it.)

I think that (unless this turns into another troll/rage thread) this is a great way turning all the negativity around here into something productive.

OK guys, so far in this thread's short lifetime I've already had to delete two comments. One that was clearly flamebait, the other that was directly insulting another user. Knock it off. Keep this discussion civilized and on topic. Respect each others opinions!!!

I wanted that SNES party and the Daggerfall stream. But it all makes sense.

If they can't do anything that resembles a Quick Look, what exactly do non-subscribers expect them to come up with?

I'm not a non-sub, but I think subscribers should only get functionality, like downloads and HD videos. Access to the store is pretty stupid to hide behind a pay wall (I think that's how that works, right?) and as for actual content, none of that should require money. Because then you have people alternatively saying it's the only way the website stays afloat, to this content is just a thank you to the people who subscribe, to this content is an incentive to sign up for a membership, and while not all of these are mutually exclusive, seem counter-intuitive. Also having the medals was a pretty bad decision, too, and does nothing but add a status symbol to a medium that does not handle status symbols well. The same usually goes for post counts, but people stopped caring about those a long time ago, so eh, whatever.

I'm a recent sub that signed up for the SNES thing. I'm okay with making behind the scenes, video features that don't have to do with new games, and retro video content sub only. That includes Quick Look Throwbacks.

@craigbo180 said:

@crusader8463 said:

So let's leave all the name calling and childish insults for the kids on the playground and x-box live.

What's your gamertag? I want to call you names and insult you childishly.

He doesn't have a 360. No one with a 360 spells it x-box. Hell, seeing it written in a gaming community is rare outside of troll posts. It's generally reserved for write-ups in business articles after a price drop or in USA Today in a story about what to buy your kid for Christmas.

All of them.  The whole "we're never going to take anything away that was already free" thing was stupid on their part.   Like I said when they were going to split the bombcast, if it's that important to me then I'll pay.    
 
Free is awesome and I'm happy I get all of this stuff but I almost want an subscriber exclusive Endura... Durability Dash.

i cant really afford a sub right now, but as long as they dont do less free content then im happy. like quick looks, TNT, endurance runs, bombcast, ect.
but if they do some sort of new thing on like mondays or something i wouldnt get upset.
i just hope they dont start going "gotta pay for quicklooks now" that sorta crap.
 
but i understand that they need money and stuff

Everything that has been made subscriber-only so far has been cool with me. As long as I get the bombcast and quick-looks everything else is just icing on the cake.

@gladspooky said:

I'm not a non-sub, but I think subscribers should only get functionality, like downloads and HD videos. Access to the store is pretty stupid to hide behind a pay wall (I think that's how that works, right?) and as for actual content, none of that should require money. Because then you have people alternatively saying it's the only way the website stays afloat, to this content is just a thank you to the people who subscribe, to this content is an incentive to sign up for a membership, and while not all of these are mutually exclusive, seem counter-intuitive. Also having the medals was a pretty bad decision, too, and does nothing but add a status symbol to a medium that does not handle status symbols well. The same usually goes for post counts, but people stopped caring about those a long time ago, so eh, whatever.

I didn't sign up just for "functionality" and if that's all i got i would end my sub.

@crusader8463: OK, cool. Afaik they plan to do semi-regular archives of those calls. (Quote from the rules for the BRP, posted on the site for it)

1. All conversations are recorded and broadcast live. We occasionally post archives.

Not too many of them really bother me, I understand the whole paying model and it's cool if they want to do extra things for the paying fans. As long as it means us non-subs don't get less, like fewer quick looks because they're doing too much subscriber content and don't have time. 
Also the HD video on trailers and such annoys me because I know I can go to other sites and find the HD versions, I'd willingly see a short ad if it meant I could watch an HD trailer instead of having to find it on Gametrailers or Kotaku or somewhere else.

As long as quick looks, bombcast, event videos and endurance runs are free I'm cool with whatever subscribers have. When I look at all the content that subscribers are getting I tend to think in terms of "oh cool, this subscription thing is looking way more tempting now" rather than "DAMN SUBSCRIBERS TAKE DEM VIDEOS FROM POOR PEOPLE".

wait, TNT is sub only now? where the hell have I been?  Although I guess that fact that I never noticed leads me to conclude that i am ok with it being sub only :D
Honestly I think everything so far has been rather unobtrusive.  Quick looks and the bombcast are still free, and thats the content that i primarily come to the site for. 

@SpikeSpiegel said:

If they can't do anything that resembles a Quick Look, what exactly do non-subscribers expect them to come up with?

Exactly what I'm very curious to find out.

@louiedog said:

I'm a recent sub that signed up for the SNES thing. I'm okay with making behind the scenes, video features that don't have to do with new games, and retro video content sub only. That includes Quick Look Throwbacks.

I like the idea of more behind the scenes type stuff. *crosses fingers for Vinnie Cooking Show*. It's the personalities more than the games that are being covered that bring me to the site anyway which is why I loved the Happy Hour and am real sad it's going away.

@pjacobson21 said:

wait, TNT is sub only now? where the hell have I been? Although I guess that fact that I never noticed leads me to conclude that i am ok with it being sub only :D Honestly I think everything so far has been rather unobtrusive. Quick looks and the bombcast are still free, and thats the content that i primarily come to the site for.

The Archives of TNT are members only. but live any one can attend.

I don't get it. Why ask the non-subscribers what they're ok with not getting? If they get it then there's no reason for them to subscribe.

Give me everything I want for free!

There is no valid reason other than 'helping out" whiskey media to subscribe. 

                   

@pjacobson21 said:

wait, TNT is sub only now? where the hell have I been? Although I guess that fact that I never noticed leads me to conclude that i am ok with it being sub only :D Honestly I think everything so far has been rather unobtrusive. Quick looks and the bombcast are still free, and thats the content that i primarily come to the site for.

The Archives of TNT are members only. but live any one can attend.

                   

               

@Overbite said:

I don't get it. Why ask the non-subscribers what they're ok with not getting? If they get it then there's no reason for them to subscribe.

Give me everything I want for free!

The general non-sub response to anything having to do with new members only content is overwhelmingly negative. I'm hoping that taking an alternative approach and asking what they're actually cool with would provide some insight. I've requested that those of the opinion that all content should be free refrain from posting in hopes that it'd bring out some real responses.

@TekZero said:

There is no valid reason other than 'helping out" whiskey media to subscribe.

If that were the only reason Whisky Media provided to get subscriptions, they honestly wouldn't have as many subscriptions as they do now. Not everyone feels that they should give money for the entertainment they freely receive and because of that, they need to provide some incentive for people to subscribe. Everyone can vote with their dollars by not paying for the premium content, or vote with their clicks by not coming to this site if they so choose but they have every right to do what they can to try to generate more revenue from these sites. I requested that those with the stance that "everything should be free for everyone" was not the target audience of this thread -_-;;

Web cam access through the office.

I don't get it. Why ask the non-subscribers what they're ok with not getting? If they get it then there's no reason for them to subscribe.

Give me everything I want for free!

as long as they don't take anything away that was here pre-subscription model, i don't really care. breaking promises ain't cool, yo.

Everything except the Bombcast and written pieces.

As long as quick looks, bombcast, event videos and endurance runs are free I'm cool with whatever subscribers have. When I look at all the content that subscribers are getting I tend to think in terms of "oh cool, this subscription thing is looking way more tempting now" rather than "DAMN SUBSCRIBERS TAKE DEM VIDEOS FROM POOR PEOPLE".

if they put the new endurance run behind the subscription wall it would feel really dirty, but at the same time i'd totally understand why from a business angle.

As long as they don't go backwards and make stuff that used to be free now paid. Things like the Bombcast and quicklooks are quality content that anyone can bring their friend to and show just how awesome this site is.  
 
Anything new they have made recently, like Dave's radio show, return of endurance run, whiskey media happy hour and other stuff like HD download of vids.  
 
Bottom line is, they shouldn't take anything away that could bring in new viewers. A good quicklook does actually get linked to other sites for people that wants to make an aggregate thread about whatever game, so really its free advertizing for the site. The bombcast is technically older than the site itself and is like the core that all other content revolves around. Hell, I wouldn't even mind they straight up talk about say the new endurance run for 5 minutes then say "well if you want to see the endurance run, you gotta subscribe". In fact they should do more of that stuff; talk a little bit about the content that is paid only as a way to get non payers more interested and see what they are missing.  
 
I'm saying all this stuff from a non payers perspective. Sure wacky shit happens on say the happy hour every now and then, but unless they actually penetrate the forums meme, I'll never know about it, and by the time it does and the subscribers explain its something you should have subscribed to to get, the joke is over and there certainly is nothing that actually wants me to subscribe.  
 
One final thing I gotta say; The Whiskey Media crew itself does a pretty bad job of advertising their own stuff. I'm reading some of the above comments and coming from a non-subscriber I never even knew about the PC throwbacks or the SNES thing that apparently only subscribers get. I mean, if you never advertise your own supply and create a demand you will not get more subscribers for the work you put in. I don't mean Vinney should go ahead and start working overtime to create ads for these things, but rather just take some time in each bombcast or just have a segment in I love mondays, etc to give a little blurb on these paid only things, that way you actually create demand. Hell, why is the T shirt store so hidden away? It makes sense that subscribers should get a discount, but not all subscribers actually want or even care about a T shirt. Look at other sites like Penny arcade; they put out less content than Whiskey Media does, but they don't have a problem paying the bills since they its really apparent where the merch store is. The only reason why there is even a need for having subscribers in the first place is due to the bottom line of making money. The merch store is something they can definitely improve on as well. 

@onimonkii: I quite certain that Jeff has stated that they won't make an Endurance Run a subscriber only feature.

@TekZero said:

@Fobwashed: I"m not one of those people that think that everything should be free for everyone. I understand that all of this costs money to produce. It's just that the features that subscribers get are uninteresting and unconvincing by themselves. I don't listen to the podcast or watch the live stuff (plus, it's released for free eventually anyway), I don't care about the ads (who really pays attention to internet ads anymore anyway?), and I don't really care about HD video. I'm watching a vid on the internet, I am not expecting HD and I don't need it in a higher definition. The problem is that in order to make subscribing an appealing option, they need to either offer subscribers stuff that freebies can't ever get or remove services that were once free. The main problem is that since this site has been free for so long, that would cause a riot. And what exactly can they offer subscribers that is more than they already have (and are already uninteresting)? Therefore, there is no benefit to be a subscriber outside of a free t shirt and the satisfaction of helping out the site.

But that's you. You don't find the benefits of the subscription appealing, but that's far from anyone not having a valid reason to subscribe.

@crusader8463 said:

 So let's leave all the name calling and childish insults for the kids on the playground and x-box live.

What's your gamertag? I want to call you names and insult you childishly.

@crusader8463: I see where you're coming from, but by those standards, it rules out basically any playing of a video game while talking about it on a site that's dedicated to video games. This is why I'm asking what you're cool with, and not what are you NOT cool with. What sort of thing would you be alright with then?

#edit# sorry, you did say that you're good with anything that doesn't break their original promise, but I'm looking for more specific features, videos or articles that would be alright.

• One idea I have had is something we used to do over at Anime Vice before the site was killed. They had a thread where people would post questions to the staff, and then they would print them out and put them in a hat and randomly draw them and answer those questions on video. If they made a members only thread to do that in it could be an interesting segment. Every time they record them just do it with different staff members to keep it varied.
  
• I think Jeff's hall of fame thing is going to basically be this, so maybe this will already be covered, but I was thinking of a defending your movie style segment that the staff can do every now and then. They just pick some games from their past that they really loved and want to champion, and do a little interview style 1-5 min bit of why they love it so much followed by 15-20 min of gameplay. I feel that would be different enough from them just doing a quicklook throwback to warrant it being a members only feature.
• A debate show. They pick some hot topic that is currently going around, or past ones, and debate why they agree/disagree with it. Like DRM practices, DLC/Pre-order stuff, Piracy, working conditions etc. The guys seems to always agree on most topics so maybe it would be hard to find topics they are polarized on, but it could be interesting none the less. They all strike me as smart guys, so even if it was like a High School rules system where they are given a topic and need to defend it even if they don't agree with it could be interesting. Might be a tad too on the nose, but the segment could be called Devil's Advocate.
  
• Kind of like the above debate idea, but with them arguing about specific games in a series/genre being better and why. Like Battlefield/COD, Pokemon/Digimon, Salt/Pepper, Borderlands/Rage, Starcraft/Command and Conquer etc.
• This may cut into the bombcast territory some, but when a big event happens in the industry maybe they could do a round table style show where they sit down and discuss their feelings on it. Make a thread about the topic a day or two before they shoot the video and cheery pick some interesting opinions discussed in it. Maybe make the thread members only?
  
• The obvious one is doing video live streams of the bombcast. That way the subs get to watch it as a video, as well as get it a day or two early. They could then upload the video shortly after the free podcast goes live for everyone, which is how I would prefer them to do it, or make it members only like they do with the TNTs.

@craigbo180 said:

@crusader8463 said:

 So let's leave all the name calling and childish insults for the kids on the playground and x-box live.

What's your gamertag? I want to call you names and insult you childishly.

Same one here, but my 360 has been sitting in a box for several years, and I have no plans to take it out anytime soon. So I won't get your messages for some time. Please feel free to though. Will give me something to look forward to when I do plug it in to play a few games I have in my backlog. 

@crusader8463 said:

@craigbo180 said:

@crusader8463 said:

 So let's leave all the name calling and childish insults for the kids on the playground and x-box live.

What's your gamertag? I want to call you names and insult you childishly.

Same one here, but my 360 has been sitting in a box for several years, and I have no plans to take it out anytime soon. So I won't get your messages for some time. Please feel free to though. Will give me something to look forward to when I do plug it in to play a few games I have in my backlog. 

Actually going to do it now then, just so you can be confused as hell when you see the messages and have no recollection of why I sent them to you!

@StaticFalconar: AFAIK, the Daggerfall Throwback boiled down to:

1. Vinny needed to transfer something in the office in the weekend.
2. Dave was working on something in the office, in the weekend.
3. "Hey, let's play Daggerfall!" "Awesome!!"
4. ???
5. Tweet!

It's very spur of the moment and sudden (not to mention reckless and kind of stupid), but that's kind of what I expect from WM and why I come here. Anyway, I'll let the non-paying members alone now, just trying to clear that up.

This thread actually makes me a little angry.

@TekZero said:

@JoeyRavn: Yeah, it's just me. And, while I don't speak for everyone on this, I am not alone in that thought either. The point I was trying to make is that in order to make subscribing truly enticing, Whiskey Media would have to either get super creative in it's packaging or remove previously free material. I do that kind of stuff (marketing - sales) for a living. I'm just thinking quickly about how they can broaden their base.

They are putting subscriber-only content that people are willing to pay for. The SNES marathon, Dave and Vinny's Daggerfall longplay, the Big Live Live Show, all the live stuff... And they're not taking anything from non-subscribers. And yet, they complain that subscribers get subscribers-only content.

I don't really know what you expect them to do, since everything they do is wrong.

They can paywall whatever they like really, I don't mind too much.  Member's only archive of TNT is kinda weird, because I can't watch most of it live so I just don't bother trying.  Weekly live show being members only is also just fine, but seems a very very strange decision since it's one of few ways they cross-promote the sister sites.  Mind you on free live shows I usually skip through a vast vast majority of the content anyway because most of it is nothing i'm interested in so asking me to pay for that feature isn't happening.
 
The question they have to answer is how much can they paywall without alienating the people who aren't members.  There's a fine line there of me choosing to maybe pay because they have enough stuff I want, or choosing to leave altogether because there's more of the site I can't enjoy than I can without paying.  Enticing people to pay is a hard bargain for some.  50 bucks isn't much but it's enough to make people ask what they're really getting by paying.   They now have conflicting goals.  They need new blood coming to the site, but they also need to sell subs to people.  How much free vs paywall content you need is something every subscription model has to wrestle with.  I think they might be better off playing up the "help us add this cool feature" angle to get more subs, but then that would probably piss off some people anyway.

So long as I get to keep watching Quick Looks and listening to the BombCast, I'm cool. Of course I'd like things like the upcoming ER to be free for everyone, but if it isn't, it isn't. 

@crusader8463: You often come off as nagging and a tad annoying BUT the constructive things you listed on the second page totally redeemed you in my eyes! Those were wonderful concepts and the best suggestions and examples of constructive critisism I've seen so far on the subject. Cudos to you sir!

@Dagbiker said:

@gladspooky said:

I'm not a non-sub, but I think subscribers should only get functionality, like downloads and HD videos. Access to the store is pretty stupid to hide behind a pay wall (I think that's how that works, right?) and as for actual content, none of that should require money. Because then you have people alternatively saying it's the only way the website stays afloat, to this content is just a thank you to the people who subscribe, to this content is an incentive to sign up for a membership, and while not all of these are mutually exclusive, seem counter-intuitive. Also having the medals was a pretty bad decision, too, and does nothing but add a status symbol to a medium that does not handle status symbols well. The same usually goes for post counts, but people stopped caring about those a long time ago, so eh, whatever.

I didn't sign up just for "functionality" and if that's all i got i would end my sub.

agree

I'm cool with everything so far. Hopefully they will announce some new member stuff during the BLLSL that will sway me into subscribing.
 
I hope the minority of non subscribers who complain vehemently about everything don't paint to bad a picture of us. The fact that some members have asked for the ability to switch off non members comments is disappointing. We aren't all bad!