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Posted by FrankCanada97 (4039 posts) -

Howdy folks! I'm sure many of you expected an instalment about the GB Civil War, unfortunately there was too much of that to handle at the moment, so instead I bring you a lesser known incident. So without further ado, it's time once again for another thrilling instalment of...

Notable and Interesting Events from the History of the Giant Bomb Community

Previous instalments in this series include:
1. Persona 4 Endurance Run Ep. 50 Uproar
2. The Modelling Gig
3. ItalyCanadian9 Gets Exposed
4. His Name is Endogene
 
The day is February 4th, 2010. The site had recently had an update in which one of the features was a new Facebook integration option. This new feature allows friends on Facebook to know what you're up to on Giant Bomb, if you allow it to do so. One notable forum user, Sweep posted a blog airing his views on this. He posts his opinion on the Facebook feature and ponders the separation between Giant Bomb and the real world. His own life is the example he uses to question why someone would think of linking Facebook to Giant Bomb. To him, Giant Bomb is his own personal domain where he can geek out. He wouldn't want any of his real life friends, family, colleagues to know about any random postings at 2am in the morning. He concludes by saying how ironic it is that it would be easier for people on Facebook to find his blog posting than people on Giant Bomb unless it were attached to the forums.
 
The blog seemed to have been misconstrued as a blog bashing the new Facebook connectivity feature. Some users have told him to ignore it, while others discuss the use of Facebook connectivity. All appeared well until Dave Snider came in to read the blog. Unless you haven't already figured it out, Dave is a staff member responsible for the design, technical details and engineering of the site. So he was involved in all site updates. Apparently he perceived this blog post as a challenge to his manhood, and he launches into a tirade ranging from the integrity of the website, to pressures from advertisers. It was quite a surprise for those users that saw it.

" Show me one place on Giant Bomb where we force your content onto Facebook? Show me one place where we don't ask you to click a button to push your content somewhere. Find the place where Giant Bomb spams you. Find the preference that sends you tons of email as a new user without your permission.
 
Reality: Facebook is huge. It's the largest site in the world. We can't avoid it. It's just there and people use it everyday. There are many ways this integration could have gone down. We could have forced every comment/post/review you made to automatically push to facebook and twitter. We could have been THAT company. We didn't. We did the best we could. We made it no more than 25 pixels in height and asked you if you wanted to share your content with others instead of just doing it without your permission. We asked you to not only push one button, but push many other buttons after that to make sure you were OK with it. We did this because we hate when other websites force that decision on us.
 
Facebook is what it is. You having to see a very small blue button on your page is not the end of the world. This is beyond reactionary. It's just silly. Will we eventually add a preference to turn them off? Yeah, probably, when we're done capitulating to the dozens of other bugs we deal with on a daily basis. When have we not caved into user concern over this kind of stuff? When has Giant Bomb not been the site that doesn't take ethical user procedures to heart? When have we not been clean with our audience about our intentions? We have fucking preferences to turn off god damned editorial off from OUR OWN message board, how does that even make sense? That's why you are here, because we're not fucking IGN. But to simply assume in so calice a tone that we're evil for giving people the option to share their interests with their friends is just wrong. 
 
Seriously. Show me one place on this site where we don't expressly ask your permission for something. Show me one place where the action you took requires an extra click of bullshit to get through. It doesn't exist. I know because I designed every part of it. And it was designed with a purpose. To be the best mother-fucking best gaming website in the world. We're either that or we're some evil monopoly forcing ad, Twitter, Email and  Facebook spam on you without your permission.
 
This is the most ethical site on the Internet of its size. From its Editorial team to its Engineering team. Sweep. Love you tons, followed your stuff and you've been an amazing contributor to the site over the years. But you're just wrong here. We've done nothing to your experience but add a couple avoidable small footprint buttons to the site. You're over-reacting. You're causing a fuss.
 
As for your community rants over the past couple weeks. Giant Bomb is no different than the rest of the Internet. If you want to have your shit seen, you need to market yourself. We provide the best tools we can to allow you to create your content, but it's up to you to make sure that content is viewed. That is not our responsibility. I didn't sit on GeoCities for years trying to plug my Xwing VS TIE Fighter site, I went outside to other sites to try and get my stuff seen. There's really only so much we can do. Show me a large editorial site that does it better and I'll do my best to imitate it. Fuck man. Show me one site that even allows your blog to be broadcast outside of a profile page!  
 
You've got plenty of options when it comes to gaming sites. Gamespot, 1up, IGN and the like. When it comes to community, I know we're better. So do you. You want a site that focuses on the community over the editorial? Go to any of our game pages. You'll see small summaries of editorial comment and large sections of community content. That was and is still fucking risky for us. We get shit about it every day from advertisers. Show me one other editorial game site (scratch that, editorial site in general) where you can search for a topic and see the editorial content as the minority of the page layout. I'm not talking wikipedia, this site has professional, best of breed reviewers. We're literally gagging them on game pages to push user content forward. It's insane. We shouldn't be doing it. But we realize our content gets stale and only a thriving community of fans can keep game pages fresh.
 
As for everyone who doesn't want their "friends" to know about their life on Giant Bomb... you have two options. Find better friends who accept you as you are or don't click the small ass buttons that pop up. It's a pretty easy decision. But don't blame Giant Bomb because you're trying to hide your passions from your friends.  Do not be afraid of who you are.
 
Gaming is fucking cool. Don't be ashamed. IceWind Dale II love needs to be spread! "

I think every felt the passion that Dave put in his typing. Although misdirected, as the point of his blog was to ask the question "How many people will use this feature and why?" This might not have been clear from the beginning, but knowing Sweep he had no malicious intent. Snide and Sweep are cool now, no grudges. This blog came at a time where community content was being pushed for recognition (Giant Bomb Civil War). So no doubt it was a trying time for everyone.
 
You can read the blog post here. Dave's post is on the third page with comments going first to last.

Looking back, do any of you use the Facebook/Giant Bomb connectivity? Have you seen a staff member react so intensely to a thread before?
 
For those wondering, my next instalment will be coinciding with E3. Think of what happened during an E3 in the community and you'll know what I'll be covering (Pending approval with the mods). Beyond that, a few suggestions would be very helpful.
#1 Edited by FrankCanada97 (4039 posts) -

Howdy folks! I'm sure many of you expected an instalment about the GB Civil War, unfortunately there was too much of that to handle at the moment, so instead I bring you a lesser known incident. So without further ado, it's time once again for another thrilling instalment of...

Notable and Interesting Events from the History of the Giant Bomb Community

Previous instalments in this series include:
1. Persona 4 Endurance Run Ep. 50 Uproar
2. The Modelling Gig
3. ItalyCanadian9 Gets Exposed
4. His Name is Endogene
 
The day is February 4th, 2010. The site had recently had an update in which one of the features was a new Facebook integration option. This new feature allows friends on Facebook to know what you're up to on Giant Bomb, if you allow it to do so. One notable forum user, Sweep posted a blog airing his views on this. He posts his opinion on the Facebook feature and ponders the separation between Giant Bomb and the real world. His own life is the example he uses to question why someone would think of linking Facebook to Giant Bomb. To him, Giant Bomb is his own personal domain where he can geek out. He wouldn't want any of his real life friends, family, colleagues to know about any random postings at 2am in the morning. He concludes by saying how ironic it is that it would be easier for people on Facebook to find his blog posting than people on Giant Bomb unless it were attached to the forums.
 
The blog seemed to have been misconstrued as a blog bashing the new Facebook connectivity feature. Some users have told him to ignore it, while others discuss the use of Facebook connectivity. All appeared well until Dave Snider came in to read the blog. Unless you haven't already figured it out, Dave is a staff member responsible for the design, technical details and engineering of the site. So he was involved in all site updates. Apparently he perceived this blog post as a challenge to his manhood, and he launches into a tirade ranging from the integrity of the website, to pressures from advertisers. It was quite a surprise for those users that saw it.

" Show me one place on Giant Bomb where we force your content onto Facebook? Show me one place where we don't ask you to click a button to push your content somewhere. Find the place where Giant Bomb spams you. Find the preference that sends you tons of email as a new user without your permission.
 
Reality: Facebook is huge. It's the largest site in the world. We can't avoid it. It's just there and people use it everyday. There are many ways this integration could have gone down. We could have forced every comment/post/review you made to automatically push to facebook and twitter. We could have been THAT company. We didn't. We did the best we could. We made it no more than 25 pixels in height and asked you if you wanted to share your content with others instead of just doing it without your permission. We asked you to not only push one button, but push many other buttons after that to make sure you were OK with it. We did this because we hate when other websites force that decision on us.
 
Facebook is what it is. You having to see a very small blue button on your page is not the end of the world. This is beyond reactionary. It's just silly. Will we eventually add a preference to turn them off? Yeah, probably, when we're done capitulating to the dozens of other bugs we deal with on a daily basis. When have we not caved into user concern over this kind of stuff? When has Giant Bomb not been the site that doesn't take ethical user procedures to heart? When have we not been clean with our audience about our intentions? We have fucking preferences to turn off god damned editorial off from OUR OWN message board, how does that even make sense? That's why you are here, because we're not fucking IGN. But to simply assume in so calice a tone that we're evil for giving people the option to share their interests with their friends is just wrong. 
 
Seriously. Show me one place on this site where we don't expressly ask your permission for something. Show me one place where the action you took requires an extra click of bullshit to get through. It doesn't exist. I know because I designed every part of it. And it was designed with a purpose. To be the best mother-fucking best gaming website in the world. We're either that or we're some evil monopoly forcing ad, Twitter, Email and  Facebook spam on you without your permission.
 
This is the most ethical site on the Internet of its size. From its Editorial team to its Engineering team. Sweep. Love you tons, followed your stuff and you've been an amazing contributor to the site over the years. But you're just wrong here. We've done nothing to your experience but add a couple avoidable small footprint buttons to the site. You're over-reacting. You're causing a fuss.
 
As for your community rants over the past couple weeks. Giant Bomb is no different than the rest of the Internet. If you want to have your shit seen, you need to market yourself. We provide the best tools we can to allow you to create your content, but it's up to you to make sure that content is viewed. That is not our responsibility. I didn't sit on GeoCities for years trying to plug my Xwing VS TIE Fighter site, I went outside to other sites to try and get my stuff seen. There's really only so much we can do. Show me a large editorial site that does it better and I'll do my best to imitate it. Fuck man. Show me one site that even allows your blog to be broadcast outside of a profile page!  
 
You've got plenty of options when it comes to gaming sites. Gamespot, 1up, IGN and the like. When it comes to community, I know we're better. So do you. You want a site that focuses on the community over the editorial? Go to any of our game pages. You'll see small summaries of editorial comment and large sections of community content. That was and is still fucking risky for us. We get shit about it every day from advertisers. Show me one other editorial game site (scratch that, editorial site in general) where you can search for a topic and see the editorial content as the minority of the page layout. I'm not talking wikipedia, this site has professional, best of breed reviewers. We're literally gagging them on game pages to push user content forward. It's insane. We shouldn't be doing it. But we realize our content gets stale and only a thriving community of fans can keep game pages fresh.
 
As for everyone who doesn't want their "friends" to know about their life on Giant Bomb... you have two options. Find better friends who accept you as you are or don't click the small ass buttons that pop up. It's a pretty easy decision. But don't blame Giant Bomb because you're trying to hide your passions from your friends.  Do not be afraid of who you are.
 
Gaming is fucking cool. Don't be ashamed. IceWind Dale II love needs to be spread! "

I think every felt the passion that Dave put in his typing. Although misdirected, as the point of his blog was to ask the question "How many people will use this feature and why?" This might not have been clear from the beginning, but knowing Sweep he had no malicious intent. Snide and Sweep are cool now, no grudges. This blog came at a time where community content was being pushed for recognition (Giant Bomb Civil War). So no doubt it was a trying time for everyone.
 
You can read the blog post here. Dave's post is on the third page with comments going first to last.

Looking back, do any of you use the Facebook/Giant Bomb connectivity? Have you seen a staff member react so intensely to a thread before?
 
For those wondering, my next instalment will be coinciding with E3. Think of what happened during an E3 in the community and you'll know what I'll be covering (Pending approval with the mods). Beyond that, a few suggestions would be very helpful.
#2 Edited by Jeffsekai (7042 posts) -

I remember this, just another case of people overreacting over nothing. 
 
 
and yes I use the facebook integration, it's great

#3 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

Wait, GB Civil War? I don't remember that at all. All I remember from the time was this one blog where I just went to town on your last president.

#4 Posted by FrankCanada97 (4039 posts) -

I apologize if this instalment didn't live up to your expectations, I'm sure the next one will best it.

#5 Posted by Crono11 (1650 posts) -

lol Oh I remember when this happened. 
 
No I don't use the facebook connectivity. In fact I don't even use facebook.
 
Looking forward to the next one. I remember that day too.

#6 Posted by AjayRaz (12440 posts) -

daaamn. i had no internet at the time but man. Dave is the man (all due respect to Sweep)

#7 Posted by Origina1Penguin (3501 posts) -

Hopefully you'll think of some more positive events at some point. These are all on the bad drama side of the tracks so far.

#8 Posted by FrankCanada97 (4039 posts) -
@Origina1Penguin said:
" Hopefully you'll think of some more positive events at some point. These are all on the bad drama side of the tracks so far. "
I know, I'm trying. There is one really funny one but I'm waiting for some more time to pass on it. Of course, a few suggestions wouldn't hurt.
#9 Posted by natetodamax (19212 posts) -

I still side with Dave in that blog. There wasn't much point in Sweep complaining over a little link at the top of the screen that allowed people to connect to Facebook.

#10 Posted by TheHT (11514 posts) -

lol yeah i remember reading that. no facebook connect here. i've kinda abandoned my facebook. when something becomes a chore to check it i tend to not want to use it anymore.
 
dave's duderness still remains untainted though.

#11 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
@FrankCanada97 said:
" @Origina1Penguin said:
" Hopefully you'll think of some more positive events at some point. These are all on the bad drama side of the tracks so far. "
I know, I'm trying. There is one really funny one but I'm waiting for some more time to pass on it. Of course, a few suggestions wouldn't hurt. "
My Halo 3 blog. *holds up flame shield*
#12 Posted by eroticfishcake (7786 posts) -

I'm still not sure what that was about. Regardless, Sweep and Snide are good guys in my book.

#13 Edited by Sweep (8922 posts) -

I hope that from all the contributions I have made to the giantbomb community that this is not the one I shall be remembered for. 
  
Snide knows I love him. He just forgets, sometimes ;)

Moderator
#14 Edited by NathHaw (2792 posts) -

I wonder sometimes if Dave is drinking too much!  Of all the staff, he seems to be the one to let things get to him too much.  I suppose he takes a lot of pride in his work though, and maybe he thinks that his efforts with GiantBomb and the other Whiskey sites go under-appreciated.  I would bet that he puts his heart and soul into a lot of this. 
 
It's OK, Dave.  Most of us still think you are cool even if you did overreact a little.

#15 Posted by Origina1Penguin (3501 posts) -

I'll give Dave credit for it being the the most well-written rage post I've ever seen. I admire his passion, too.

#16 Posted by Apathylad (3067 posts) -

I really don't want to link to my facebook account. I want to keep my internet identity and my real self separate. That way, I can feel like a superhero.

#17 Posted by weegieanawrench (1941 posts) -

Wow, that was some passionate typing. 
 
I don't use Facecock either.

#18 Edited by TooWalrus (13236 posts) -

I wish these moments could stay contained in the minds of those of us who were there :-(
 
EDIT: Dave's a man who obviously knows his shit. Mad respect, Dave.

#19 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19371 posts) -

These are interesting...  Kinda makes me want more of these moments in the future.  But not really because they're a little too dramatic for this place, I think.

#20 Posted by Matthew (1914 posts) -

Duuuuuude, Dave brought out the big guns.  And if you read every bit of his (Dave's) retort, it's spot on.  It's true.   
 
This is the 

best mother-fucking best gaming website in the world  

 
And as for the next installment, I'm greatly looking forward to it.  Sparks-fueled podcasts' are the bees knees!
#21 Posted by Claude (16254 posts) -

I don't understand Facebook never have. I just recently made an account, it's mostly full of actor friends from my email address. I still don't use it. I haven't connected the two because I don't think my actor friends would care, and I don't update facebook or check it very often. 
 
I just thought it was a useless option while other features were being taken away. My forums tab on my profile is pretty much useless and the search function on the forums has been down for a month or so. And then the quest feature came, still more features while others were left in disarray.

#22 Posted by FrankCanada97 (4039 posts) -

So after the next instalment, which event should I chronicle next? Preferably a positive/funny one.

#23 Edited by Turambar (6809 posts) -
@FrankCanada97:   I definitely appreciate all these entries.  I've been here since the the February (or was it March?) of last year, and still seemed to miss much of the spasms of drama that appeared after I took up residence.  As for your next entry, judging from your hints, I suppose it will be about a girl named Leigh?
 
As for what to cover next, I'm not sure how recent would be too recent, but the Night Vision Goggles Saga would make for some incredibly uplifting laughs.
#24 Posted by FrankCanada97 (4039 posts) -
@Turambar: Yup, I got a Bombcast to review. And I have to find that thread, hard since the search is down.
#25 Posted by arab_prince (2053 posts) -

Good installment OP, dont let the hate get to you. 
 
I side with Snide on this one. Its the constant argument of a SP game coming out with an MP portion. If you don't want the MP, don't touch. There was no reason this should have been an issue. Either way, respect to both men of course

#26 Posted by Turambar (6809 posts) -
@FrankCanada97: As for what to cover next, I'm not sure how recent would be too recent, but the Night Vision Goggles Saga would make for some incredibly uplifting laughs. 
#27 Edited by Dalai (7040 posts) -

May I point you to this
 
Wait, might be too many Sweeps in a row. I'd use this one as a backup.

#28 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
@Dalai said:
" May I point you to this?  Wait, might be too many Sweeps in a row. I'd use this one as a backup. "
I should totally do something like that for my 200th blog. But for another huge GB moment, I'd go with (besides myself) the whole Linkyshinks debacle. Hell, maybe even include some lines from the -_- PM.
#29 Posted by FrankCanada97 (4039 posts) -
@Video_Game_King said:
" @Dalai said:
" May I point you to this?  Wait, might be too many Sweeps in a row. I'd use this one as a backup. "
I should totally do something like that for my 200th blog. But for another huge GB moment, I'd go with (besides myself) the whole Linkyshinks debacle. Hell, maybe even include some lines from the -_- PM. "
I'm afraid that would be out of bounds for me since I can't cover users who have been banned.
#30 Posted by NathHaw (2792 posts) -
@Claude:  
Dave is about to get really mad and tell you how it is!
#31 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
@FrankCanada97: 
 
Even if they've come back? *cough* Disgaeamad *cough*
#32 Posted by LiquidS (971 posts) -

Good read Frank, keep it up.
#33 Posted by Zero_ (1976 posts) -

I love this series - there's a whole ton of history that I missed out on.

#34 Posted by Claude (16254 posts) -

I can't find the fucking thing because the forums search is fucked, but the Santa Hat thread was pretty awesome. The one from '08. It even bled into last year. Now it's a mainstay. We even had MattyFTM become a Communist Robot.

#35 Posted by cabelhigh (247 posts) -

Man, this sure does remind me of William Gibson's novel "Pattern Recognition." Chronicling the history of the forums...that's intense. And great.

#36 Posted by Red12b (9084 posts) -

Yeah, that blog has to be taken with a view of what was happening with the community at the time, I think why Snider came down as hard as he did was because of Sweep's earlier blog, asking for a "Bomb Shelter" A place where Community content, (E.G Good blogs, Podcasts, the upcoming magazine, Mathews bombcast breakdowns) could be held, it's reception was sort of half agreeing half vehemently disagreeing, some people were just so against the idea saying that the Community content was just not up to par with the staff and shouldn't have their own tab, saying that the Community spotlight (Run with extreme proficiency by Zombie Pie) was enough,  
 
My thoughts of the idea was that the tab could be an upgraded spotlight, Jeff weighed in and said that a Community Manager role was in the works but was a bit longer on the waiting list,  
 
Basically, that earlier blog set the field for that week long period of just insaneness,   
As it was half and half, people were getting their panties in a bunch it started to overflow into other topics,  
 
When Sweep made his observations on the FB connectivity, most people saw it as his contempt for the direction that the site was heading, instead of reading the OP they just assumed that it was a continued Tirade,  
 
Then shit hit the fan, Most people went nuts, People that created content started to defend their right to share it, (and rightfully so,) whilst others decided to deride them saying that it wasn't up to par with the staff content and shouldn't have their place on any other place than the forums, some people saying they come for the staff first, Forums second, wiki the very last. 
 
To say it was heated is kind of an understatement, but a whole lot of people were just creating thread asking what the fuck was going on, which in turn created a space where suspicions and misinformation went around creating an atmosphere of AREGHG! 
 
Snide's response was more or less a reflection of everything and everyone and he directed it at sweep since his Community Bomb Shelter blog was the initial spark that set off the self destruction the resulted in? 
 
Nothing, people created blogs saying they were leaving the site, people declared a "civil war" was going on, what happened after two days, nothing, people "came" back... 
 
It was a good idea the got a divided response with people not totally understanding the concept but deciding to view their ideas anyway, 
 
I still hope there will be a Bomb Shelter though, the idea is mint, 
 
Pity the community doesn't know a good thing when it is front of their face.    

#37 Posted by TurboMan (7604 posts) -

Pimp Slap. Dave Wins. 
 
Sorry Sweep.

#38 Posted by Meteora (5787 posts) -

Wow. Mad props to Dave man. I can just feel the passionate rage in the post. =P 
 
Keep up the good work on the series FrankCanada. And you to Dave, don't let us get the better of you.

#39 Posted by Red12b (9084 posts) -

Yeah, santa hat one, or you could of coarse put the best shoops into one thread and just say, best ever.

 


 

#40 Posted by artofwar420 (6294 posts) -

@FrankCanada97: You are a great citizen of Giant Bomb, this is excellent. I'm really happy I was there when Dave clicked "post reply". I went "OH SHIT".

#41 Posted by Atomasist (2818 posts) -

Good blog, can't wait to see the next one.

#42 Posted by Claude (16254 posts) -

Dave is a candy ass with nothing but ice cream underneath. A little heat and he melts leaving nothing more than a candy colored clown.
 





Just kidding, I love Dave. He's the nerd I always wanted to be. To bad I'm a pussy cunt who can only live his dreams.
 
Did someone say candy colored clown... they call him the sandman. 
 
 
 

Just so you know, I'm in a weird mood. No offense.
 
Show me the light of Dave.
 


I accept Dave and all is forgiven as I go into his arms.
 
Thanks Whiskey Media.
#43 Posted by Brake (1105 posts) -

I guess I should lurk General Discussion and Off Topic more, since I keep missing these. (Great blogs btw).
 
I don't really care about Facebook one way or the other, but I'm glad Dave cares so much about this site.

#44 Posted by Sweep (8922 posts) -
@natetodamax said:
" I still side with Dave in that blog. There wasn't much point in Sweep complaining over a little link at the top of the screen that allowed people to connect to Facebook. "
This is the whole point. Dave was yelling at me for something I never actually wrote. I wasn't "complaining about a little link at the top of the screen" I was saying I wasn't going to use facebook because I treated facebook and giantbomb as separate entities. Here's the direct quote:  
 

 Sweep Said:

"  I'm not really sure who this "Link with facebook" feature appeals to?  Maybe people who have already bridged the gap between giantbomb and the real world? For the moment i'm happy keeping them separate. "


People like you who misunderstood this are the whole reason this mess snowballed completely out of control in the first place.  
 
 
Whatever. Let's not start another bullshit "civil war".
Moderator
#45 Posted by Yummylee (22047 posts) -

lol dayum. Dave must of been typing while sitting on a tac.

Online
#46 Posted by Ghostiet (5289 posts) -

Damn, I thought you're going to post Dave's tirade after someone complained about the site design not being as cool and easy to browse as IGN's.

#47 Posted by Red12b (9084 posts) -
@Ghostiet said:
" Damn, I thought you're going to post Dave's tirade after someone complained about the site design not being as cool and easy to browse as IGN's. "
there is also that one where he totally ripped into that guy complaining about ad blocker videos,  
 
Now that was fucking funny. 
#48 Posted by Red12b (9084 posts) -
@Sweep said:
" People like you who misunderstood this are the whole reason this mess snowballed completely out of control in the first place.    Whatever. Let's not start another bullshit "civil war". "
Exactly, lets just stare at the wonderment of taking shit out of proportion. 
#49 Posted by Creamypies (4075 posts) -

I don't really use the Facebook integration on the site, but I'm totally okay with it being there. I must've missed this when it originally happened, and oh man, Dave really poured his heart out on that one. Keep it up dude, I'm loving these blogs.
 
I'm guessing the next installment is in relation to Leigh Alexander?

#50 Posted by CharkeeFarlee (896 posts) -

Woah, That was an awesome post by Dave there.
I hadn't heard when this happened but i don't think a lot of us did.
 
 
 
duuuuude!