Now that we have PS4 details, I'm worried about Nintendo

That's a fair point, but there are certainly more technical concerns involved with porting a game down to inferior hardware than simply resolution. If developers don't have a market reason to spend the extra resources to make a last gen version (360,PS3) of their shiny new next gen game, I can't see them spending those same resources to port the game down to Wii U either. Now, I feel like there will be a decent chunk of time where the there are just too many 360s and PS3s out there and not enough next gen early adopters quite yet to justify making a multiplatform game for next gen consoles and not making a last gen version as well, and as long as they are already making a last gen version, it's easy to see that it wouldn't be a stretch to put it on the Wii U as well.

However, once the install base for the new systems gets to a point where last gen development can be retired, there will be little reason to spend the effort to make a Wii U version of most games. We're not just talking about visuals and resolution here. Do you really think the Wii U will be able to run Unreal Engine 4? If not (which I feel is highly likely), a UE4 game would have to be completely retooled to run on that system. Even if the engine they were using was compatible at base level with the Wii U hardware, they would still likely have to use lower detail assets, tone back AI, limit the number of objects that can be rendered at a time, and possibly even limit environment sizes.

What I feel this will amount to is the exact same situation as the Wii, but to an even worse extent for Nintendo. The Wii was the clear cut leader in sales for pretty much the entire generation, but that was still not enough to entice developers to make games for it. Because of the vast difference in technical specs, the choice for developers and publishers was either put a game on the Wii only or put the game on both the 360 and PS3. The Wii had the highest install base of the three, but the combined install base of the 360 and PS3 dwarfed that of the Wii alone, making the decision for developers and publishers easy; a 360/PS3 multiplat could potentially reach more people than a Wii only game.

The outlook for the Wii U is even bleaker, because at this point it doesn't look like the Wii U is going to run away with the sales race like Wii did almost immediately back in 2006. Now, to the point about ports down to the Wii U, it did happen with the Wii, but for the most part they weren't successful enough to justify the development costs to make that port. Just look at things like Skate and Dead Rising on the Wii. Each of these games were severely comprised versions of their HD counterparts, and fans knew it was an inferior experience and mostly avoided them. As the generation went on, you saw fewer developers even attempting to create versions of their games for Wii; there just wasn't much reason to do so despite the system's large install base.

So, if I could bring this back around to the Wii U topic, it looks like Nintendo is going to be in exactly the same situation as last gen regarding third party support. Once developers fully commit to the next gen and stop making 360 and PS3 versions of their games, there just won't be enough incentive to go out of there way creating inferior versions of there games to reach the Wii U audience. And all indications are they would have to go out of their way given everything we know about the specs of the Wii U and what we now know about the specs of PS4 and the likelihood of similar specs for the next Xbox.

Now, I don't think this means that the Wii U is doomed to fail, in fact I will probably be picking one up pretty soon. However, the reason I want a Wii U is for one reason and one reason only; to play Nintendo games. Nintendo has always thrived because of its first party lineup and its a shame they chose to continue to alienate third parties by opting to go with modest hardware yet again, but as long as they make Zelda, Mario, and Metroid games, there will always be people that buy Nintendo consoles. I have a feeling the Wii U will do okay, it's just going to be another situation where if you want to play all the biggest multiplat games, you are going to need to have more than just a Wii U.

PS: Sorry about the novella sized response, thoughts just came pouring out and I couldn't stop them.

They've fallen on their faces 3 generations in a row: the Gamecube as a financial success, the Wii as a 'hardcore success,' and the WiiU so far seems to fail at both.

When was the last time Nintendo was relevant?

I think sometimes we forget that people like us (that frequent game sites and post on forums) are in the minority of consumers. Most people buying these consoles either want something to keep their kids quiet for a couple hours a day, or are just looking for whatever plays the latest COD/Madden.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that there'll be a WiiU price drop by the holidays, and when people see a $250 WiiU next to a $400 dollar PS4/Xbox, all the system specs in the world won't make up for price.

Now that we have PS4 details, I'm worried about Sony

"It's only been out for a few months and sales have been relatively strong, aside from last months."

I just came here to point out that that sentence amused me. Carry on.

@wrighteous86: Why?

You know there are always people who will tell you that "technical specs don´t mean anything" or whatever-

but if you take a look at the WiiU launch lineup, it goes to show that technical prowess does matter. A whole lot. Granted, it could be early stage development syndrome, but the WiiU seems to be unable to handle even current gen games. The ports from PS4 and whatever that Microsoft thing will be when they finally grace us with its presence.. god those ports will look like shit and more importantly run like shit.

Look at the framerate in that Epic Mickey 2 game and tell me that technical aspects of games don´t matter. They do. That doesn´t mean Nintendo is fucked, but they´re in a situation similar to the Wii -minus the casual appeal of that thing.

@hunter5024: I was mostly just being a dick, but, while cool, most of the new social features aren't going to be used by the majority of people that pick up the system. The games seemed neat, but not really like system sellers. The controller looks a bit ridiculous. The capabilities of the system have improved, but not in a way that is immediately noticeable (the average "CoD/Madden" gamer probably wouldn't notice a huge graphics boost). The streaming stuff is nice but seems really untested and might not work that well.

And most damning of all, I'm almost positive they'll try selling this for over $400.

Do I think Sony is doomed? No. But I don't think what they've shown make's the PS4 a "safe bet" in terms of being a success, other than the fact that it's been a long time since we've gotten a new generation of consoles. Honestly, I think the gaming industry in general is going to be in trouble this generation, or stagnant (aside from bringing in new generations of kids). Nintendo will be okay for at least another generation due to the way they run their business. If the PS4 fails, Sony's probably done in the console market.

@wrighteous86: Well I think it's a little early to write off the social features and announced games, and judging the controller before you use it doesn't really make sense, but maybe you're right. However we've still got 7-10 months of potential announcements, so worrying now seems a bit premature.

Most of the best stuff for Nintendo is on the 3DS, which is a fantastic system. I'd be fine with Nintendo becoming a strictly handheld developer, considering everything i've wanted to play from them in the last 4 years has been on the DS/3DS.

I don't quite get why PS4 price + Vita price = WiiU advantage? Yeah, the price will be more than a WiiU, but unlike the WiiU controller, the Vita is actually a completely capable gaming device on its own. Sure, it could use more good games before people take it seriously, but so can the WiiU. The thing the WiiU does have the advantage on is the second screen having all the necessary buttons. I agree with Patrick, playing PS4 games on a Vita could get real shitty if they start making you use the back or front touch to make up for the L2 and R2 buttons.

I'm not gonna say the WiiU is Nintendo's final console, mainly because the 10 year old me loves them too much, but I definitely would not be surprised if it were. Based on entirely my own assessment, the amount of buzz around the WiiU is about at the level of Year 4 of the Wii. I feel like I, along with quite a few other people, have already forgotten the WiiU is a system, especially now that the PS4 has been announced.

The sales numbers are about the same as the 360's for the first few weeks. I'm not denying that January's sales were anything less than astonishingly bad, just that people are (and always are) far too quick to jump to the "it's failed, it's over" talk. And it's usually those people that end up looking the fool.

Like I said, I'm not actually worried. I was just mocking the alarmist tone of the thread title. Considering the PS4 and the Wii U (and not knowing how this generation will go since it hasn't even started yet) it's ridiculous to be worried about either company, though, from a business perspective, Nintendo is "safer" than Sony.

That said, existing social features already go relatively unused: how many gamers ACTUALLY dig in to things like Forge in Halo or the video sharing options? There are a few uber-users that create a lot of good content, but most people mess around with it once (for an achievement) and never again, I'll bet. Aside from showcasing some crazy glitch or cool stunt, the video feature isn't very useful and most people aren't in situations where they want or need to watch their friend play a game.

The touchpad seems dumb to me. It reminds me of the "backtouch" on the Vita. One or two games will figure out a use for it and otherwise it will just be an extra button on the console, especially for multiplatform games. At least with the Wii U, the second screen can do something more unique. The speaker was a nonstarter on the Wiimote (though I still think it's kind of cool), and I always thought the flashing light of the Move controller was cheesy, and now it's on the Dualshock.

Just my opinions though.

I was worried the day Nintendo announced a system no more powerful than the PS360 and called it the WiiU.

@shaka999: Seems to be that Nintendo have made a Gamecube at best, and Dreamcast at worst.

But at least those two consoles were classics - hopefully the Wii U will encourage weird Japanese games to come west.

And Nintendo have their handheld dominance to fall back on whenever they make a mistake - Sega didn't.

This thread confuses me.

You're worried about Nintendo because their inferior? You mean... like they are every generation?

I think they'll figure something out. They may not "win" this generation in terms of sales but they'll do something crazy to stand out I'm sure. It's still to early to tell what's going to happen, though. I feel like this next generation will be a down side for consoles in general. If PS4 is any indicator, basically they will be able to stop holding back what PCs are already capable of doing and have been capable of doing for a few years now. We may see an incline in PC developed games since it seems like it would be easy to do now that PS4 is x86.

This is all speculation, of course. I'm just going to predict more quality, PC focused developments this generation. I feel like consoles will become more like mini operating systems as well. More than they already are.

This will be interesting.

I got worried for the Wii U the second I heard that it's more current than next gen.

The 3DS is selling pretty good you guys.

There is virtually zero reason to own a Wii U unless you really care about a handful of franchises.

@epicsteve: And I would say that applies to a pretty large number of people. Most people buy PS3s and 360s for Halo, Madden and Call of Duty I think that qualifies as a handful of franchises also.

Nintendo is in it's own world now. Hopefully the first party games are awesome because I feel third parties won't be able to afford just making a game for the WiiU. Look at Rayman. I bet if Bayonetta 2 doesn't sell a lot then it will get ported over later.

I have no doubt Nintendo are shitting themselves in regards to the wii-u at the moment. If all of the footage that was shown, especially the Deep Down footage, is representative of what games will look like on the next generation consoles, then the wii-u could be in an even worse position than the wii was in terms of longevity. Even disregarding the PS4's showing, the wii-u is already struggling to gain a foothold in the market; Nintendo only sold around 50,00 consoles in January. When gaikai, remote play, the dualshock 4, the vita compatibility, the social aspects, and all of the exclusives Sony snapped up are taken into account, the wii-u's offerings are seeming very slim and "last gen". Nintendo is playing catch up poorly.

Yeah well, I never had much confidence in the Wii U to begin with. It's a console targeted at no one. It's too complex to get the Wii audience back, and it's lacking too many features to compel the hardcore types.

@project343 said:

Not what I expected from you, project343!

1. Gamecube: Nintendo has more cash money in the war chest than either of their competitors. What does it matter that the GameCube wasn't a financial success now? All that matters today is how good the GameCube games are. Personally, there's lots to love there I think. Highly underestimated this console was!
2. Nintendo is relevant. We just aren't relevant to them. Kids love Mario still, that hasn't changed. The Wii was never for the hardcore, no point bringing it up really, especially since the console itself was a massive success, compared to the 360/PS3 or just on its own. They didn't fall on their faces here, they rocketed into space. Just because we think the Wii is 90% shovelware (it is) doesn't change anything about its success.
3. WiiU. Come on. I maybe, maybe, maaaaybe agree that the WiiU looks like a failure. But. It's so early. Too early to say. Any dissections of the WiiU at this point are just premature. We don't know what the future holds, and Nintendo, especially, has proven unpredictable (again, the Wii).

Look, on the one hand, I agree: everytime Nintendo has released a console in the last 15 years it has looked like a Dreamcast to me, not in the way that the Dreamcast is awesome but in the way that it could be the last one. I just think all this Nintendo's goin' down the drain talk is far too early, and we're all gonna eat crow for it.

Ahhh this is getting long but last thing: looks like we're being set up for a Microsoft/Nintendo brawl this gen. Sony isn't going to lean as heavily into family, so the fight will be between the latter two. Here's my point: no matter how well MS does, it's highly unlikely their presence outside of the USA will be more than a shadow, which leaves plenty of room for WiiU and 3DS (and whatever's next) to keep making Nintendo money. Also worth noting that the WiiU is profitable as soon as one game is sold per console. Long story short: don't count Nintendo out. And they certainly aren't going anywhere!

Not worried at all. People are always so quick to dismiss Nintendo and I'll never understand that. There's a lot of questions that need to be answered about the PS4. I'm not impressed like some people are.

There's simply no way that games designed around 8GB of RAM (or even 4, if the Xbox has that) will scale to the Wii U, which only has 1GB usable of DDR3.

If games do scale there'll either be crazy amounts of pop-in or some crazy low-res textures in those ports.

There is "no way" that a Wii U game can work on any other system anyway. Porting happens not because of RAM but because they are completely different platforms.

You should have been worried about Nintendo long before the announcement yesterday. You should have been worried about Nintendo with the Wii and their decision to use shitty gimmicks to sell consoles instead of actual games. And yes there were good Wii games, but there were hardly any good third party Wii games. You should have been worried about Nintendo when they decided to play a generation behind the pack. You should have been worried about Nintendo when their stock prices started to tank from 78.50 in Oct of 2007 to 29.82 in Dec of 2009 to 11.56 in February of 2013.

Nintendo isn't fucked, but they are far from the bastions of light that people thought they were in 07. The WiiU launch has more or less been a fucking disaster with a main selling point, Rayman Origins, being delayed until September of 2013 AND going multi-platform.

What am I known for, exactly? I grew up on Nintendo like the majority of people out there, and I loved my (trickle) of Gamecube treasures dearly. But honestly, their modern efforts make me ashamed of liking them in the first place. They seem fucking clueless. I switched over to Microsoft as my primary platform manufacturer in 2003 when I was fed up of being bored with my Gamecube. When Microsoft started to alienate its hardcore audiences with advertising, a piss-poor online service, Kinect, and the 'multimedia box' approach, I swapped over to PC gaming and Steam (although, I still own a Wii, 360 and PS3).

I mean, on one hand you herald the importance of the quality of their games, then you mention that their games just aren't for 'us' anymore. The fact that they can only make a handful of games that appeal to all age groups is kind of pathetic: they're positioned as the Pixar of video games, but all they can put out right now is Dreamworks' B-grade crap. Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 are two of my favourite games, period, but they were also the only two respectable games that Nintendo put out last generation.

What do I see when I look at the WiiU? I see a platform that is designed by people living in 2005 (ridiculous online infrastructure, bizarre design decisions, seemingly ancient technical specs), that bricks left-right and center, and that continues to be fucking irrelevant to developers looking to follow the multiplatform route. Images speak louder than words, and this image sings a very pathetic song for Nintendo's future. It'll take a miracle for Nintendo to turn that machine around.

I don't think the Wii U will do anywhere near as good as the Wii but I bet it picks up once the Mario's, Zelda`s and Smash come out for it. For the last two gens now Nintendo consoles have gotten by on the infrequent number of high quality first party games. The GC and Wii both had a shorter life than the competition because third partys jumped ship. I assume the same faith for the WiiU. Which means at some point I will probably end up with one. Just for the handful of games that are must plays.

Actually, I don't recall anyone saying that about either device. The 3DS did in fact stumble out of the gate and only became successful after a price drop. The Wii was made for a broad audience, it was so simple to use and made for family fun. Unfortunately, Nintendo's competitors have copied that concept and are now doing a far better job with it in addition to the robust media and graphical capabilities that those respective consoles offer.

The technical gap doesn't matter and hasn't ever mattered in the history of console gaming, so I'll give Nintendo that much. The past two console generations are proof alone that a manufacturer doesn't need the best specs to win a console race. The WiiU is another matter entirely. 55,000 sales cannot be spun any other way, this is looking more and more like a huge bomb for Ninty. For crying out loud, just look at the game transfer debacle. This is the Dreamcast all over again except worse. So far, it looks like gamers are fine with ignoring the appetizer while they wait for the main courses in the form of the PS4 and XBOX whatever just as they ignored the Dreamcast while they awaited the PS2 and GC.

they are fine Nintendo just needs to do Nintendo. They need to bring the Nintendo charm and when both MS and Sony brings their systems, Nintendo can work out how to make their system cheap to be the cheapest box on the market. The only problem Nintendo face is not being original and depending on Mario and Zelda too much. We need new ideas and games from Nintendo.

They can't claim to be on a different path as Sony and Microsoft if they hug on only Mario and Zelda to sell their system. They need to sell that they are not afraid to bring new and interesting game and not just shooters. I say Nintendo is its own worst enemy if they let it.

Sorry I didn't comment earlier, but a few people said specific things to me and I wanted to make sure I cover myself:

1. I did completely ignore the price of the Vita, and that was not intentional. Huge oversight on my part.

But, when I think about it, people will pay for a product if they think it's worth the price. I think my argument still holds true because I feel like Sony is offering such a wide range of services that would entice developers to work on the PS4 as opposed to the Wii U if you had a choice. Of course, without a price point and an actual release, it's hard to say.

2. A lot of people talk about how Nintendo has the handheld market to fall back on, but that is not a sure thing like it was in the past. The 3DS seems to be picking up though, so who knows?

Definitely agree with the sentiment that Nintendo needs something new as well. A new Mario/Zelda would be cool, but it's going to need to change the formula up a lot more than what we've seen these last few years.

Nintendo is not out. They don't really have much competition as of right now, the PS3 and 360 are of a previous generation of console that is winding down so there is no pressure to innovate or release games like mad from Nintendo. When the PS4 and Xbox 8 or whatever it's called come out, they will be forced to innovate to succeed. It's how competitive, product-based companies work.

Nintendo's first party is strong enough to keep them going, but they really need to rethink their market strategies. Weak tech is not going to work anymore like it did last gen, motion control gaming was mostly a gimmick, a passing fad, and that fad is gone. The people that were most drawn to that type of gaming weren't really too serious about the hobby to begin with, and Nintendo needs to realise that.

I honestly believe Nintendo will release another system later, one that has the same power as the other platforms and can handle 3rd party games easily.

I don't expect them to go away anytime soon since they have a ton of money in the bank and they can probably survive the WiiU bombing. After that though they really need to get back in the game. Quite frankly they should start making new first party IP that make people actually want to buy a Nintendo console, a crazy idea I know.They get a pass from seemingly everybody for rehashing the same stuff over and over again. The only good games they make anymore are the big 3D Mario games which get long breaks between releases and are timeless so they don't really need to move on.

Nintendo will be dead if developers stop making games for the WU due to it's small playerbase. We'll see if that happens or not after the next-gen launches.

I'm not saying the Wii-U is dead, I don't know. I have no intention of buying it, I know no one who owns it or is planning on buying it and everyone I hear about online who do own one don't use it. But it may well end up being a smashing success in the end. My point was that saying "It's only been out a few months and sales have been fine, except for the last few months" is not a solid endorsement ;)

It's hard to say really as Nintendo are resilient to a lot of things such as the 3DS still performing well even against games on the smartphones and tablets. E3 this year might be the make or break for Nintendo as they've got to somehow attract gamers into buying their console before the PS4 hits the holiday season, if they don't Nintendo could lose a good portion of market share that will ruin the sales momentum of the Wii U. It might also depend on how much the PS4 charges for and whether the next Xbox hits the holidays too.

To be honest, I thought Nintendo was doing very well in their sales with the WiiU console because... well... there was quite a big hipe for it and everyone was completely excited! I adore the WiiU and it's such a great idea, and I have to admit of spending countless hours on Miiverse chatting to many people around the world, and playing games with the WiiU pad.

Now I'm on the edge of my seat for the PS4 because the features that were shown seem to have improved. I bet it is completely worrying for Nintendo because they shot the bullet a bit too early, and again left in the dust just like they were with the Wii. It's so sad.
BUT! It's not completely worrying because the Wii did manage to pick itself back up again after a long time down, and majority of people do actually own a Wii console! So it may not all be bad for Nintendo. :)
(Plus, I bet the WiiU will still be cheaper then the PS4. pfffffffff)

The 3DS is getting better with every new release, and Nintendo has money to burn. in a few years they might have to cut back, but they are far, far away from trouble.

Plus, in a year it'll be in the 200-250 range, and as long as they don't totally fuck their first party stuff up it will have justified it's existence.

I would expect that Nintendo will be fine as soon as they start pumping out more Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games. They live and die by their first-party exclusives.

I also expect that parents will see the PS4, next Xbox, and WiiU on the shelves at Christmas, and the WiiU will cost a hell of a lot less. As long as there are enough good games for it by that point, it'll be a good position for Nintendo.

I'm not so sure I'd say I'm worried about Nintendo, it's kind of where I've seen Nintendo going for a while. The last console of Nintendo I used (and I still use quite happily) was the DS. I, like many others, made the unfortunate purchase of a Wii that basically became a paperweight. I think a lot of people learned their lesson from that, and are understandably a bit more hesitant to buy the Wii U. I don't think a silly gimmick is enough to get people to buy another round of consoles.

Not to mention, the WiiU comes out at a very awkward time. It's functionally part of the PS3/360 generation which is rapidly coming to a close. While it will maintain some degree of parity with the PS3/360 while they continue to be supported, that's going to be a constantly shrinking market as opposed to a growing one.

Maybe it's because I have no vested interest in any of the major Nintendo franchises, which involves remaking the same games with the same formula year after year. I don't fault them for it from a business standpoint, if people continue to buy the same game over and over, why innovate? I just hope that this catches up to Nintendo sooner or later, so that they can pull things back together. There was a day that I was the most excited for Nintendo consoles, the Super Famicom is arguably the best piece of gaming ever devised. Maybe it's because I am older now, but I like to think I am just tired of the same old thing.

Finally, Nintendo, STOP region locking your consoles. Especially your portables. Who region locks portables!? The 3DS actually has some promise, though most of what has interested me on it could be done on the DS anyway. I just can't bring myself to ever buy two consoles because of ridiculous region locking.

The only reason I'd pick up a Wii U would be for the Nintendo exclusives. Which, ironically, is not why Nintendo wants me to buy their machine.

I was worried about Nintendo from the moment their "next generation" console played catch up with the current generation of everyone else...

But I don't think they are in trouble. The lower production cost of their consoles means they can make a profit a lot sooner than Sony or Microsoft.

@project343

I grew up on Nintendo like the majority of people out there, and I loved my (trickle) of Gamecube treasures dearly. But honestly, their modern efforts make me ashamed of liking them in the first place. They seem fucking clueless.

I'm not that far off from you in that yes, their moves mystify me. Basically, when I first saw the Wii, I just thought: OK, Nintendo just isn't for me now, it's for Billy, Sarah and Mom and Dad or whoever those people were. :( I wish that wasn't the case but I haven't seen anything to make me think differently, regardless of Nintendo's BS about the core gamer last year.

I mean, on one hand you herald the importance of the quality of their games, then you mention that their games just aren't for 'us' anymore. The fact that they can only make a handful of games that appeal to all age groups is kind of pathetic: they're positioned as the Pixar of video games, but all they can put out right now is Dreamworks' B-grade crap. Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 are two of my favourite games, period, but they were also the only two respectable games that Nintendo put out last generation.

I think that to many young kids, all those New Super Mario Brothers games that bore me to death are really amazing. And they're not the only ones. I like the Pixar comparison. They're certainly positioned as that - but I agree, they aren't. I do feel like many of their games are "all-ages" but by that I mean parents & kids mostly. So little of what Wii/WiiU has to offer has enough oomph to interest me or you. I dunno that it's that pathetic though. I get you but who would present as a counter to Nintendo.

What do I see when I look at the WiiU? I see a platform that is designed by people living in 2005 (ridiculous online infrastructure, bizarre design decisions, seemingly ancient technical specs), that bricks left-right and center, and that continues to be fucking irrelevant to developers looking to follow the multiplatform route. Images speak louder than words, and this image sings a very pathetic song for Nintendo's future. It'll take a miracle for Nintendo to turn that machine around.

Right, so that is an amazing image (though PC exclusives seems like an unnecessary category, just write: 10 MILLION GAMES CONSOLE GAMERS WILL NEVER SEE instead).

Do I think the road ahead is rough? Heck yes. But. But! Consoles have bad starts. Years 1-3 are just playing in the mud. My whole position in this thread is just this: never count (insert company) out. It's just too early to stick our shovels in the dirt and start digging graves.

I think the WiiU is a real mess right now in between its draconian construction and three controllers and just the mass confusion of "is it a controller? is it a box?" but when I look at that controller I do get some great ideas and so I know someone else out there working on the WiiU has those ideas too. In the end, it may take more than a miracle for Nintendo to turn it around. It could take lots o lots o money. Luckily Nintendo's got the cash but if they don't invest it in smart solutions it's a moot point I guess.

Nintendo wont be in any trouble as long as theres ppl buying the first party stuff, its like its always been.

You dont buy a Wii U for anything but exclusives and first party stuff, right?

I made this thread and you sonsabitches said I was crazy! But yes. Poor, poor Nintendo.

Nintendo will be fine for a good long while, but they are burning time at this point. The Wii U should have come out in 2010, and the next system should have been priming for 2014. Those Wii buyers who were uncles, aunts, cousins and grandparents in 2006 to 2009 are gone. Oprah is GONE! Ellen DeGeneres is not going to play Wii bowling on stage, and if she did all here viewers would say, "Yup seen that, done that!"

If Nintendo wants to be part of the up coming generation, they need to do something that puts them in the mix again. The ball is in their court, I won't say they can't, but I would say they need to do something else.

Nintendo hasnt been good since the N64. They have some good first party games, but awful 3rd party. They somehow managed to luck out with the Wii being a fad with motion controls. With the Wii U I think they are going to go right back to where they were with the GameCube. Honestly Nintendo should stop making non hand held consoles and go 3rd party.