Oh Jesus, I think I don't like jRPGs anymore!

Yeas, so I've played most of the console jRPG offerings this gen: Infinite Undiscovery, Star Ocean 4, The Last Remnant, Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Symphonia 2, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, maybe a few I forgot. And... suddenly I hate jRPGs. As in, pretty much everything jRPGs stand for.  (Don't have a PS3, so unfortunately I can't play Valkyria Chronicles and prove myself wrong.)

Which is totally crazy, because only a few years before it was my favorite kind of game to play. My PS2 collection was full of  the damn things. And this affliction isn't retroactive: I can still pop in the jRPG classics of yesteryear and love every second of it (yes, Tales of the Abyss and Final Fantasy X have not lost any of their awesomeness), but every time I try to get into a current gen iteration, it's just the most horrible experience imaginable.

So I suppose my question to like-minded gamers is this: Is it the fault of the (admittedly lackluster) batch of console jRPGs this gen that I suddenly can't stand them? Or am I simply "outgrowing" that kind of game? What the fuck is going on here?

NOTE: Oh, and I should probably mention that handheld jRPGs have not been affected by my newfound disdain for the genre. because TWEWY was awesome, and Knights in the Nightmare and SMT: Devil Survivor are pretty solid so far, too.

This generations JRPGS haven't quite matched the brilliant PS2 ones in my opinion. The DS and PSP have had a few good ones though!

I know what you mean mate. I can't openly say i was a HUGE jrpg fanatic - but FF7- FFX2 (which was a fucking chore... man i really really didnt like that damn game)....  (oh and FF12 sucked huge testicals) ... but they just dont seem to have the same flare anymore... perhaps back in the day when the western market wasnt saturated with randomly coloured sterotypical "KWAI"  and "CHANS + KUNS" they were that more appealing? I recently casually played Star ocean: The last hope at a mates house and it just couldnt be less interesting if it tried... the gameplay was good but the character and feel was just BLEH. Persona 4  - great game but i just never had the time for it.... thankfully i can tune in to the endurance runs.

So to answer ur question or at least shead some light, i think its mix batch of factors. We havent really been blessed with a monumental Jrpg in a while now, while as ur getting older you might just  subcounciously can't give a toss about spending 50+ hours leveling characters and grinding away. Lets PRAY that FF13 will rock because quite frankly ive  been waiting since 2001 for a decent FF.



KUPO!!

Basic JRPG style of game design doesn't fit the requirements for what most people expect from a modern HD generation game. Genre's biggest innovation in the last decade was basically the use of CGI cinemas. I still personally enjoy them but I can see why the general public is losing interest. I like Tales of Vesperia but it's pretty much a PS2 game with pretty visuals.

Genre needs a new AAA flagship title with great innovations to truly bring it to the next generation and I'm afraid that Final Fantasy XIII may under-deliver on that department.

You dont hate them, they are just shit.

Exceptions being Lost Odyssey and Valkyria Chronicles, and a punch of handheld ones. I'm hoping I will enjoy Star Ocean, but so far everything else i've played i've hated too.

Yeah, you haven't lost any love for the JRPG, it's just with the current gen of consoles companies seem to be taking less risks with what they are willing to get away with, plus they are mostly using the same engines for most of them, meaning they look so damn similar anyway. Lost Odyssey and Valkyria Chronicles really are the exception to the rule atm, with the rest just being playable if your really desperate for some JRPG goodness.

I suggest you just wait for the masterclass that will be Final Fantasy 13 to show up, unless it ends up being as god damn fail as 12 was.... errrgh.

I played quite a few jrpgs between the ps1 and ps2 eras(never actually bought any though). In my opinion the genre hasn't evolved at all at least not in the same way western genres have over the past 15 years or so.
Japanese devs for some reason still insist on clinging to tradition as Persona 4 and the various 360/ps3 games have proven.  As far as I am aware the only really innovative title has been Valkyrie Chronicles and all they really did with that was throw a half assed gears of war style of combat on to the old grid based strategy form of design.   You're still constantly scrolling through menus, managing way more characters than you should be and to be honest the whole 'interactive anime' thing has just gotten so stale and boring.   Thank god FF13 has a sizable amount of design changes, but even then their are still a number of steps I'd wish they'd take to further evolve the genre.   What I would give for a jrpg that had a combat engine closer to something like Diablo 3 or Mass Effect or Dragon Age.   I can live with the spikey hair and big eyes, just give me combat that isn't; 'scroll....  select spell... select monster... scroll.... select spell... select monster' over and over.'

Of couse all the hardcore super otaku jrpg nuts will disagree and say shit like 'NO YOU JUST DONT UNDERSTAND!' but I have faith that some day they too will realize just how god-awfully out of date so many of the games are design wise.  I think it all actually stems from a greater issue across japanese game development in general.  Somebody with a large amount of influence needs to step up and tell them japanese folks like it is, hopefully square can get that ball rolling with ff13.

Huh... That's two claims that Lost Odyssey is an exception to the "jRPGs suck this gen" rule, but I personally didn't find that to be the case at all. I think I stopped playing around the point in the story where the whole world starts magically freezing. Couldn't bring myself to pick it up again because the battle system was from the early fucking 90's... I'd much rather play Tales of Vesperia for its more palatable combat, if only its story didn't go horribly wrong 2/3 way through.

Lost Odyssey is pretty good though, the story gets very very cool further in, and although the combat system feels old I liked it because, well it felt oldschool, and anything is better than the crap that is happening nowadays (once again I refer to Final Fantasy XII lol)

Also some of the later fights require you to really think about how your going to take them on, and that level of tactical fighting could only really be done with such an oldschool fighting system.

Hmm, well maybe I'll pick it up again if I'm bored. The story was mildly intriguing, and I do  think I was  at the point where things might've been picking up. But  it'll have to wait until there's literally nothing else worth my time. It's no longer in my good graces.

However, I disagree that deep, involved, tactical RPG combat can only be achieved by being boring and antiquated. You need only look as far as the Grandia series for brilliant innovation in the turn-based formula.

I've lost interest in JRPG's after PS1.
They were great back then : |

No its just this gen has been lacking JRPGs.  If you compare to PS2's library of JRPGs its kind of sad.

I grew up on JRPGs, but when Final Fantasy 7 came out I realized that JRPS were for people that had too much time to waste.  I would rather get in some actual play than sit and watch a twenty minute cut-scene.

That is when I started getting into (American) computer RPGs.  Games where the player got to pick how the characters acted...you know, almost like a "role-playing" game....

It''s because the genre refuses to move forward in all areas except graphics, and the graphics are what attract new players to shitty games.   Any JRPG you like, you only like because of nostalgia.   I was a few years late to the FFX party and I think that game is garbage.   I'm playing Persona 4 right now and even that game, with it's original setting and oh-so-rare-for-a-JRPG "M" rating, sticks to plenty of genre conventions.   Just accept that JRPGs are shit, always have been shit, and (I hope I'm wrong) always will be shit, but we play them despite that because we hate ourselves.   Without nostalgia clouding our vision they're all fucking terrible.

" No its just this gen has been lacking JRPGs.  If you compare to PS2's library of JRPGs its kind of sad. "

I am with other posters here in that I think the disdain we feel towards the modern JRPG is due to a couple things. First and foremost is that the current gen JRPG's are not up to par with those of previous generations in any way shape or form, graphics excluded. I have played them all so far this generation and the only one I really liked enough to finish was Tales of Vesperia, but that was only because of the humor in that game. I didn't keep playing it because it was good. I kept playing it because I wanted to see what funny thing would be said, or happen next in the adventure of Strawberry Shortcake and Captain Dick, even though the story went horribly wrong 2/3 of the way through. It should have ended ontop of that giant ring thing, but I digress.

Another thing I think is responsible for the current JRPG hate is that Japan and the western world have been moving in different directions in terms of gaming for a while now. What they want in games this gen isn't what we want in games this gen. They want Monster Hunter. We want Call of Duty and Gears.

Lastly, the biggest thing I think has hurt the JRPG genre is the Square Enix merger. When Square and Enix merged last gen it killed all the primary competition in JRPG's that had been driving the genre forward up to that point. Now the fan bases for both of those companies are united under one banner and neither company has to try to best the other with its latest title. The end result is they sit high on their golden throne and toss shit to their people who gobble it up and ask for more.

Do we get good and original stories anymore? No. Do we get JRPG's with original characters, strong characterization and good progression anymore? No. Can we get these things? Who knows. It costs a lot of money to produce any kind of RPG and the RPG has always been a niche genre regardless of how much Final Fantasy mainstreams it. It costs even more money to produce a good RPG and the payoff is never as good as the next best shooter, or sprots game. Modern companies and investors don't want to take the risk, especially in this economy, and it's no wonder why.

I don't know about the whole Lost Odyssey being the exception argument. I played the game and hated every second of it. The characters just didn't grab me. The memories, though interesting, were way too long and just had me wishing they were voiced rather than requiring me to scroll through them on my non-HDTV. The child characters were your typical "I hope you guys burn in a fire you're so annoying" child characters. Even their solution to stop grinding got me annoyed since I actually enjoyed the combat this time around. The rate at which xp would become useless on levels was ridiculous. I'd reach a point where I got 1 xp for each battle before even reaching the halfway point of a temple or area.

JRPGs are very long, I find I can only play one of them every year or two, you can easily get burnt out.

Yeah, maybe I need to just take a step back from jRPGs for awhile, or stick to the DS. I've played a lot of bad ones this gen, their poor quality made even more evident by playing them so close together. It gets exhausting after awhile.

I do think there's a lot of hyperbole in saying that jRPGs are just inherently shit games. I don't think that's true at all, nor do I think nostalgia can fully account for the huge disparity in quality between last gen and this one - the PS2 classics I love today, I love because they're good games, not because of some idealized version of them I carry around in my memory. They were just fucking good.

Yeah, jRPGs are shit now, but they don't have to be shit; they've just lost their way.

I think it's overload.  I had a ton on the PS2, but I started getting sick of them as I shifted to the 360.  Now that I've taken quite a long break from JRPGs - the last I played was FF12, which I loved - I'm ready to get back into them.  I have a few other games to get through, but I'll pick them back up once I get through the shrink wrapped boxes sitting on my shelf.

I've been playing RPGs since the first FF and Ultima games and what I always liked most about them was that the worlds you could explore in them were huge in comparison to other games of their time. Nearly everything else in the game had to be abstracted, but the feeling of exploration and discovery always topped other kinds of games. Even on the PS2, with super-linear games like Xenosaga, the world and backstory topped any action games.
I think part of the problem with RPGs this generation is that the worlds in newer games, especially sandbox games like GTAIV and Infamous are becoming as real and fascinating as anything in an RPG. These worlds may not be as big, but their level of detail is astounding. I also usually preferred JRPGs to western ones, but with games like Mass Effect and Fallout 3, that has changed a lot for me.

With the exception of Lost Odyssey, most if not all current gen JRPGs are terrible. Its not your taste changing thats the problem, its the lack of anything worthwhile.

Lost Odyssey (to me) proved that, if done right, the JRPG genre could still survive in this era of HD graphics. Not only did I find the game immensly enjoyable, it was also a very pretty game too look at. The soundtrack didnt hurt anything either. What we need is more variety then anything. Other then tales, something atlus releases, or another SE release, we dont see too many JRPGs over here. With the release of FFXIII, i'm hoping to see a sort of FF7 effect where it'll be hugely successful (however unlikely) and generate a flood of JRPG's that we wouldnt have seen otherwise..

Only time will tell I suppose.

About damn time, go play Oblivion, Mass Effect, KOTOR and Fallout 3 to find out what a real rpg is.

And the winner of the First Poster in this Topic with a Poorly-Concealed Agenda award is...

TheHBK!

I actually didn't like the bulk of the PS2 JRPGs.  I liked FFX and Dragon Quest VIII, and that was about it. (never played Persona 3&4) Lost Odyssey is cool so far though.  Kinda makes me think of what I expected from FFXII, as opposed to the trainwreck I actually got.

More people should have played the Suikoden games on PS2. IV had problems, but the other two were excellent.

" And the winner of the First Poster in this Topic with a Poorly-Concealed Agenda award is...TheHBK! "

I think just like every other game in this gen JRPGs have lost focus on what makes them so awesome. Instead of just making an interesting experience they have just toned downed the difficulty in the games dramatically and given most of the games generic and uninteresting storylines. Come to think of it I can't remember any time in Eternal Sonata where I was low on Health Potions (or whatever they're called), but I have to give the game credit for having such an interesting storyline, colorful, detailed graphics, and fleshed out combat system.

Damn...sounds like a lot of talking mouthpieces here that didn't bother to read anybody else's comments.  All talk & no listen. I counted at least 5 or 6 times where somebody said "except for Lost Odyssey all JRPGs are shit" conversation.  It's like reading a broken record.  If you had bothered to read the other comments you could have just added on to the first one that mentioned Lost Odyssey, rather than just saying the same damn thing!

So in summary of what everyone else said so no one has to say these again:
1.)  JRPGs lack innovation.
2.)  JRPGs reuse the old game engines.
3.)  Current gen JRPGs are boring.
4.)  Lost Odyssey is the exception.
5.)  Everyone hopes that the next FF will succeed, but are skeptical.

I've managed to buy 4-5 JRPGs for bargain prices but now I'm not even sure I want to play them.  I tried Lost Odyssey but it kind of lost its direction right at the start of the game!  I was in the city & it didn't explain what the hell I had to do next.  What I'm going to do is have a walkthrough handy to help point in the direction & I might try it again.

Also, I've NEVER played JRPGs in the past & I still find them kind of boring. I was hoping they would be better than this.  It's probably time to give it up or just leave them in Japan, where I assume lot's of Japanese play them.

If you're playing more than two or three JRPG's a year then you're doing it wrong. Of course you're going to get burnt out on them if you don't be sensible about it. I find I enjoy my experience with JRPG's more because it's been so long since I've played one. Besides, yes, many of the JRPG's listed, well kinda suck. I won't hear a word said against Tales of Vesperia or Eternal Sonata, but the others, eh. I do really want to play Star Ocean and Persona 4, but haven't got round to it yet.

Western RPG's have been slowly overtaking JRPG's since Baldur's Gate, and this current generation have only helped strengthen that, mainly thanks to BioWare and Bethesda. Think of how many great WRPG's came out last year. It's probably more than the number of JRPG's games actually released, then alone the good ones.

I think in a few years JRPG's could make a huge comeback, in the same way that fighting games have this year. We shall see. But for now, it's not a great time to be a JRPG fan.

I myself still love jRPGS.

I've seen this thread before.
The last four times someone had discovered they had issues with JRPG's, the debate and context was a bit more interesting.

@TheHBK said:

" About damn time, go play Oblivion, Mass Effect, KOTOR and Fallout 3 to find out what a real rpg is. "

(Insert long and eloquent paragraph explaining why all the J-RPGs of this console generation suck here)
I like Persona, and the old Final Fantasy games are pretty good. But otherwise, I'm not a huge J-RPG guy.

I just take the JRPGs that I like and keep it that way.
It's funny that It's only this year that I started paying attention to the Western ones.

Really just take a break from them. That's what I do, If i get tired of a genre I know there's a million other video games that I'm capable of playing.

It sounds much like the JRPGs need to have a good battle system-fluid and different, whilst maintaining a captivating storyline with engrossing characters.

Thats why Chrono Trigger, Persona 3 & 4, and a handful of the Final Fantasy games succeeded.

" About damn time, go play Oblivion, Mass Effect, KOTOR and Fallout 3 to find out what a real rpg is. "

" @TheHBK said:

" About damn time, go play Oblivion, Mass Effect, KOTOR and Fallout 3 to find out what a real rpg is. "

You have no idea what a "real" RPG is. "

I feel the same. I'm hoping FFXIII will be a nice, refreshing change, maybe give us something worth playing

" Yeas, so I've played most of the console jRPG offerings this gen: Infinite Undiscovery, Star Ocean 4, The Last Remnant, Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Symphonia 2, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, maybe a few I forgot. And... suddenly I hate jRPGs. As in, pretty much everything jRPGs stand for.  (Don't have a PS3, so unfortunately I can't play Valkyria Chronicles and prove myself wrong.)Which is totally crazy, because only a few years before it was my favorite kind of game to play. My PS2 collection was full of  the damn things. And this affliction isn't retroactive: I can still pop in the jRPG classics of yesteryear and love every second of it (yes, Tales of the Abyss and Final Fantasy X have not lost any of their awesomeness), but every time I try to get into a current gen iteration, it's just the most horrible experience imaginable.So I suppose my question to like-minded gamers is this: Is it the fault of the (admittedly lackluster) batch of console jRPGs this gen that I suddenly can't stand them? Or am I simply "outgrowing" that kind of game? What the fuck is going on here?NOTE: Oh, and I should probably mention that handheld jRPGs have not been affected by my newfound disdain for the genre. because TWEWY was awesome, and Knights in the Nightmare and SMT: Devil Survivor are pretty solid so far, too. "

I just want to point out that Valkyria is a Strategy game, and also that people's taste change over time.

"I just want to point out that Valkyria is a Strategy game, and also that people's taste change over time."

Good advice, guys. I don't think any amount of time away will endear me to those games I mentioned earlier, but perhaps a short break will help emphasize just what I liked about jRPGs back then. (I haven't played a jRPG since sometime in April, is what my 360 dashboard is telling me. So I've already gone a long way toward cleansing my palette.)

@Snapstacle
I consider Valkyria Chronicles to be very much a strategy RPG, or "sRPG", in the vein of Ogre Battle, Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy Tactics. But I have the feeling we'd just be arguing semantics here, so it's not really something I care to pursue.

You got a D on Crackdown? You ought to go back & finish that.  Crackdown is one of the first games I played that had that Anime sort of feel to it.

Didn't realize Last Remnant & Star Ocean had such few followers on GB (something like ~700 users).   I own Last Remnant but haven't bothered
to load it yet. I haven't had the time to play it.

" Another thing I think is responsible for the current JRPG hate is that Japan and the western world have been moving in different directions in terms of gaming for a while now. What they want in games this gen isn't what we want in games this gen. They want Monster Hunter. We want Call of Duty and Gears."

" @Cerza said:

" Another thing I think is responsible for the current JRPG hate is that Japan and the western world have been moving in different directions in terms of gaming for a while now. What they want in games this gen isn't what we want in games this gen. They want Monster Hunter. We want Call of Duty and Gears."

I couldn't agree more.

For me, it runs deeper than the JRPG genre. I used to love all things related to Japanese gaming. Now, I grow more and more tired of Japanese themes that just seem silly. The last straw for me was being called 'Gaijin' over and over again while being tortured with terrible controls and game design in Red Steel. After going from that to Mass Effect, I was ruined Japanese games in general. No, that's not right. Japanese themes not Japanese games. I want a level of maturity that Japanese themes tend to break all too often....I guess I'm growing up, and I want my RPG's to grow up with me. "

" @TheHBK said:

" About damn time, go play Oblivion, Mass Effect, KOTOR and Fallout 3 to find out what a real rpg is. "

You have no idea what a "real" RPG is. "

 No, that's not right. Japanese themes not Japanese games. I want a level of maturity that Japanese themes tend to break all too often....I guess I'm growing up, and I want my RPG's to grow up with me. "

"They want Monster Hunter. We want Call of Duty and Gears. "

" @Genjai said:

 No, that's not right. Japanese themes not Japanese games. I want a level of maturity that Japanese themes tend to break all too often....I guess I'm growing up, and I want my RPG's to grow up with me. "

I don't think that fits into the Japanese mentality very well. If you haven't noticed, J-RPGs with overblown melodramatic storylines sell quite well. "

You dislike JRPG's now because there's only been one worth a shit this generation: Valkyria Chronicles. Eternal Sonata was almost good, but the characters almost gave me diabetes.