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#51 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

@Gamer_152: 250 thousand dollars.

one ad space.

I don't know how I can make that any clearer.

#52 Posted by algertman (852 posts) -

Fuck them. They showed their true colors as a bunch of corporate whores over the ME3 stuff.

#53 Posted by drag (1223 posts) -

@bwheeeler said:

This isn't a "project", there is nothing to "kickstart". They're attempting to tweak an already-successful business model. It's weird and I don't get it.

That's the weirdest thing really. I don't care if they want to start a subscription type thing with shitty membership 'rewards' on their own site ... but it makes no sense that it's on Kickstarter. Apart from 'that's where people get money from these days I guess??' - as you said, this isn't even a project, it's just giving them money and maybe something will change a bit on their website.

#54 Edited by Droop (1828 posts) -

I never liked the Penny Arcade comic (I think it is highly overated). They do a lot of good work though (PAX, Childs Play) but this is fucked.

And why would I donate for them to remove ads? If I don't want ads I can just block them. They should do a premier member thing and not this shit.

"Get added to Gabe's XBOX Live friends list for a year. You'll be one of the 100 that MS allocates to each account, playing and setting up games throughout the year." For 1000 dollars? Get real. How much of a fanboy would you have to be to donate for this.

This is one of the most shady and disgusting Kickstarters ever. Kickstarter only allowed this because they know if will fund (because people are stupid) and they'll get their cut of the million dollars that this shit will recieve.

Edit: I should mention that the rewards are making it a lot worse. $500 for a fucking retweet..

#55 Posted by Karkarov (2987 posts) -

Yeah well so called famous gaming website wants the fans to pay them for the privilege of looking at their so called famous gaming website. Just now it might not have adds for a bit, or might have some feature we don't want to do but will if you foot all the costs for it. I don't really care to be honest because I don't use their site but come on.... I especially like the high end ones where they follow you on twitter or have you as an xbox friend for a year. This just stinks of cheesy cash grab/"lets see if people are dumb enough to do it" from where I stand.

If you are a huge fan and you think most of these pretty darn laughable rewards are worth it go ahead. You are huge fan so to you maybe it is worth it. But people need to realize penny arcade is a business no matter what costume they want to wear over it and this is not how businesses are run. At least not good ones anyway.

Personally I clearly don't pay for Giantbomb either, but at least GB gives you a reasonable price with a real reward of some kind.

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#56 Edited by MyNameIsJoe (184 posts) -

Not to derail this hate train but....y'all are trippin'. You may not think this is a good idea, I for one think it is unnecessary, but 250k is probably a fraction of what they earn in ad sales. Penny Arcade is a very popular website after all. And for some fans of the site getting rid of ads may seem like a good idea, but if not then no big deal it simply won't get funded. Although they are already up to 61k with more than a month left so it seems like a lot of people may think this is a cool idea.

Edit: Oh I see they actually want a million dollars to remove the ads. That is actually more in line with what they probably bring in with ad sales so what I said is still applicable.

#57 Posted by pbhawks45 (736 posts) -
Sums it up quite well.
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#58 Posted by batterypoweredrobot (7 posts) -

The way I see this is somewhat equivalent to an NPR or This American Life donation drive with some added bonuses.

Penny Arcade has had a difficult and tumultuous past in terms of money and, like Tycho and Gabe have noted, have had to rely on advertising and selling the rights to their work. As far as I'm concerned, and I'm just speaking personally, I see this as their attempt to break the cycle of advertising funding and not have to rely on that income stream.

The produce content and then ask for donations - with little (or big) incentives - which is the same thing that, as I mentioned, This American Life does. I have no problem tossing them a few dollars to continue their content (particularly since the content will continue whether the Kickstarter is funded or not) for a year without being beholden to advertisers and as it will allow them to create a better and more informative site layout.

#59 Posted by pbhawks45 (736 posts) -

@MyNameIsJoe: I don't think people would have nearly the problem they are right now if they had done something along the lines of a subscription service, and had not used Kickstarter.

Especially considering how antagonistic people like Ben Kuchera have been over the email spamming regarding Kickstarter. Hey guys, guess what? I get loads of PR spam from companies who want their product mentioned for the website I write for, too!

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#60 Posted by HoboZero (173 posts) -

Just feels a bit off to me. Wrong, somehow Like it's against the spirit of Kickstarter.

I don't think they understand the difference between Need and Want. Most (if not all) Kickstarters NEED money or else they won't exist. PA has money (ad revenue), but they WANT different money, and will continue to exist either way.

#61 Posted by Drakoji (220 posts) -

@Karkarov:

5$ per month for premium content with a chance to interact in some way with the staff on said premium content... it's easily worth the 5$.

250k for removing one ad space on their site with stupid rewards like 500$ for retweets... really?

It stinks of "Hey we are kind of internet famous right? Let's try to milk imbeciles."

#62 Posted by 2HeadedNinja (1547 posts) -

This kinda looks like a "lets look what we can get away with" kinda thing ...

#63 Posted by gsquirrelgo (48 posts) -

I don't really see the value in supporting their kickstarter, The money for GB gets you content,pitching into PA gets you an digital copy of their book? Now if they pledged that money to acquire and promote quality comics from around the web that would be something. But merely getting rid of the ads doens't do it for me.

#64 Posted by wjb (1638 posts) -

Meh, I barely visit Penny Arcade these days. For me, the problem with comic strips in general is they're funny/interesting 1 out of 10 times, it seems. Most of the time, I'd be lucky if I even knew what they were making fun of.

As long as they're upfront and honest, I don't mind. People want to give money to stuff they support -- half the podcasts I listen to do this all the time. The ads aren't even unreasonable. They're simple banner ads for Eve Online or beanbags for nerds who apparently cannot sit up straight like normal people. Maybe the ads in front of videos, but I don't even watch their documentary anymore because that has gotten incredibly stale and I'm surprised they keep doing it after three seasons. (I know why, but it even feels like PA doesn't want to do it anymore).

#65 Posted by ChrisLoserkiD (9 posts) -

@SexyToad said:

Isn't there a adblock for ads?

This.

#66 Posted by bvilleneuve (265 posts) -

You all need to calm the shit down.

@Drakoji said:

@Karkarov:

5$ per month for premium content with a chance to interact in some way with the staff on said premium content... it's easily worth the 5$.

250k for removing one ad space on their site with stupid rewards like 500$ for retweets... really?

It stinks of "Hey we are kind of internet famous right? Let's try to milk imbeciles."

I'm not singling you out here, Drakoji. This post is just the most recent one that shows a limited understanding of how websites and business models work. Penny Arcade is not "milking" anybody, or making a cash grab.

It's just an experiment. They're seeing if people would rather collectively have fewer ads or a few extra bucks. They're not making any more or less money if this Kickstarter is or is not funded. It's solely about gauging where the community falls on advertising. It's just an experiment. I repeat: Calm down.

With all that said, I'm not putting any money in, but I'm also not going to install AdBlock like some kind of shitheel. I'm going to continue to read Penny Arcade because I think it's funny and awesome, and I'm going to keep giving them pageviews on their ads so that they can get money to keep their business afloat and keep on entertaining me and enriching my life. I come down on the side of more art, rather than more convenient art, and despite what some people in this thread seem to think, I'm sure I could articulate that stance to Tycho without him sputtering curses and reddening with rage at me. He'd mark me in the appropriate column and keep checking up on the experiment.

#67 Edited by Bojangle (78 posts) -

Fuck Penny Arcade. It fails at point 1 on the Kickstart guidelines too. http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

Kickstarter is for stuff like the incredibly interesting OUYA android console, not shit like Penny Arcade. Fuck off guys. Hopefully enough people will report the 'project' so Kickstarter will tell them to try selling their shit some place else.

#68 Posted by Drakoji (220 posts) -

@bvilleneuve:

Oh I know how to make money off a website, ad revenue is really important and yes if you remove it from a website, there's almost no money to make off it (there's merchandises like t-shirt and things like that).

But I have a problem with this kickstarter campaign because of:

1-They already have a really robust way to make money and really don't need it.

2-The rewards are ridiculous and arrogant. I would never even think of giving a monetary value to an invite to my Xbox Live or Twitter account, and it's not only 10$ it's freakin' 300-1000$. Do they think they are fucking Jesus Christ reborn into 2 demi-gods among mortals?

3- Their business work. They don't need to change anything. They know they will over-fund, and hence forth make money.

#69 Posted by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

I want Jeff Gerstmann responsible to his audience for his pay, not his overlord.

...but Jeff doesn't own Giantbomb.

#70 Edited by lazarenth (28 posts) -

@Drakoji said:

@bvilleneuve:

Oh I know how to make money off a website, ad revenue is really important and yes if you remove it from a website, there's almost no money to make off it (there's merchandises like t-shirt and things like that).

But I have a problem with this kickstarter campaign because of:

1-They already have a really robust way to make money and really don't need it.

2-The rewards are ridiculous and arrogant. I would never even think of giving a monetary value to an invite to my Xbox Live or Twitter account, and it's not only 10$ it's freakin' 300-1000$. Do they think they are fucking Jesus Christ reborn into 2 demi-gods among mortals?

3- Their business work. They don't need to change anything. They know they will over-fund, and hence forth make money.

Just to let you know, for 3, They said if they overfund it will go into next year's fund automatically.

@Bojangle said:

Fuck Penny Arcade. It feels at point 1 on the Kickstart guidelines too. http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

Kickstarter is for stuff like the incredibly interesting OUYA android console, not shit like Penny Arcade. Fuck off guys. Hopefully enough people will report the 'project' so Kickstarter will tell them to try selling their shit some place else.

They were in contact with Kickstarter to make sure that they didn't break any rules. Look at it as more of a crowdfunding effort rather than funding a brand new thing.

#71 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4639 posts) -

They should put the money toward hiring a funny writer instead.

:O

#72 Posted by Brodehouse (9588 posts) -

@GetEveryone said:

@Brodehouse said:

I want Jeff Gerstmann responsible to his audience for his pay, not his overlord.

...but Jeff doesn't own Giantbomb.

Exactly. CBS Interactive does. And it matters more that Jeff (and everyone else) make them happy rather than us. And that's suboptimal.

#73 Posted by Renahzor (991 posts) -

Weird kickstarter, I don't care about ads so it doesn't concern me but it will be interesting to see if they get funded.

#74 Posted by c0l0nelp0c0rn1 (1803 posts) -

This is dumb.

#75 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7613 posts) -

I've never even noticed ads on Penny Arcade before and I really don't see why they need a Kickstarter for anything. Maybe if they were funding another game or something..

This feels like an incredibly tacky way to take advantage of their fans.

#76 Posted by FLStyle (4581 posts) -

Yuck, no thanks.

#77 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4598 posts) -

Hey. Hey guys.

AdBlock. It works with every browser. I support Giant Bomb because they make good stuff, and they support their subscribers - usually - with unique, fun stuff. This, though? Fuck. AdBlock away, fellas.

That is, if you still give a shit about Penny Arcade.

#78 Edited by Itwastuesday (934 posts) -

I wouldn't spend money on this, but I don't see the big deal. I mean, it's not like the $250,000 is coming from one guy. If thousands of people with disposable income feel like giving a guy like 10$ to get rid of ads on a website they read, then whatever. If it doesn't get funded, they get their money back anyway. These guys know what their money is going towards, so it's not like anyone is getting ripped off. Most kickstarters seem like pretty harmless scams to me.

#79 Posted by Peanut (953 posts) -

I'm not outraged about this or anything, but it just seems really...stupid? Pointless? Both of those?

#80 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

For $25, they'll name your pet. That's a great service at any price.

#81 Posted by JeanLuc (3572 posts) -

I love Penny Arcade but I have no feelings for this on both sides.

#82 Posted by beepmachine (618 posts) -

I wish someone would make a kickstarter that would give me a year free from people fucking whining about shit on the internet. They don't want ads on their site, what's the big deal? And since when do the rewards need to be worth the donation? It's a fucking donation! The reward is just a thanks. You're not buying the god damn reward.

#83 Posted by Godak (166 posts) -

I'm not sure if it is necessarily in the spirit of a Kick Starter, but...if people want to shell out money so that their most delicate corneas can be protected from the omnipresent dangers of corporate advertising, so be it.

#84 Posted by Bocam (3672 posts) -

I don't see how this is a "project" that needs to be Kickstarted.

#85 Posted by tyty (18 posts) -

Honestly, it's not the asking for money instead of ads that bothers me. It's that they go though kickstarter to do it. So that money gets cut into by kickstarter, amazon payments, and good ol' uncle Sam. Why do it that way? Why not set up a subscription in their shop, like GB does. So that less people have to get their taste. I realize that takes money and resources to institute. But it should be worth it if you want it to be your business model. I want to support PA, not kickstarter.

#86 Posted by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

I don't really think Kickstarter is the right place for them to do this, but that's their prerogative I guess. I don't mind ads nearly enough to want to donate to this. Also, I don't believe that he'll actually think about me during sex. He doesn't even know the REAL me!

#87 Posted by siln (81 posts) -

I know I said "I'd pay real money for them to do the podcast again", but $825,000 might be a bit TOO real.

#88 Posted by Adaurin (186 posts) -

@siln said:

I know I said "I'd pay real money for them to do the podcast again", but $825,000 might be a bit TOO real.

My thoughts exactly.

#89 Posted by FakeKisser (313 posts) -

I don't see any issue with asking for this money. However, I also have no problem with the ads, so I don't feel the need to contribute. ...I'm also not a regular PA visitor like I am to GB.

Also, I personally choose not to use AdBlock on sites I want to support. It just seems like a slap in the face. Sometimes, I will even click on some ads here on Giant Bomb just to give them the revenue. :)

#90 Posted by Gamer_152 (14051 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Gamer_152: 250 thousand dollars.

one ad space.

I don't know how I can make that any clearer.

Actually, as Mike Fehlauer from Penny Arcade has said and I must admit, I failed to properly twig, this isn't just about removing ads, but this is more about letting people donate to them so that they can create more content, and that the money and energy that goes towards advertisements could be directed towards other content. However, it's still entirely untrue that Penny Arcade only use one ad space, they use much, much more than that. Just about every page on their site has an ad banner, and some of them have adverts in a side bar, there are also adverts at the side of every page of the PA Report, and on the PAX site there are adverts at the side of the page and at the bottom. For all of the videos on the site there are also adverts about 30 seconds long before and after them, and these are just some of their advertisements.

Moderator
#91 Posted by StarvingGamer (8016 posts) -

Has anyone boohooing in this thread ACTUALLY read what this Kickstarter is for? It has less to do with removing ads and more to do with the freedom to pursue other creative avenues that no longer having to work towards securing advertisers would allow.

Christ, you'll all a bunch of illiterate babies.

Except for @Gamer_152: apparently.

#92 Posted by Viking_Funeral (1736 posts) -

So what project are they trying to kickstart, or has Kickstarter changed its rules and has just become a straight up money donation service? "Remove ads from our successful website at the base level, everything after that will be a surprise!" doesn't seems like a project.

I also don't see how this has any benefit over a subscription service, aside from the chance to get a lot of money really quickly.

#93 Posted by wefwefasdf (6729 posts) -

I've been using AdBlock for the most sites that I visit, except for a few exceptions. The rewards aren't great, but I'll chip in to see if this could work; the Penny Arcade guys are great.

#94 Posted by Viking_Funeral (1736 posts) -

@StarvingGamer said:

Has anyone boohooing in this thread ACTUALLY read what this Kickstarter is for? It has less to do with removing ads and more to do with the freedom to pursue other creative avenues that no longer having to work towards securing advertisers would allow.

Christ, you'll all a bunch of illiterate babies.

Which is completely in contrast to the idea of Kickstarter.

1. Funding for projects only. A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project.

Repeat: Clear goal.

"Freedom to pursue other creative avenues" is not a clear goal. It also disqualifies under "not open-ended."

#95 Posted by Hunter5024 (5544 posts) -

This seems like the kind of corporate decision that Mike and Jerry might make considering their track record. I doubt this was Robert's idea.

#96 Posted by Humanity (8814 posts) -

@Peanut said:

I'm not outraged about this or anything, but it just seems really...stupid? Pointless? Both of those?

IF people do this, they'll be able to double, no, quadruple their content output because of magic!

#97 Posted by Maginnovision (484 posts) -

I feel like none of the rewards are worth what you pay in

#98 Posted by Sin4profit (2908 posts) -

I feel like they're using Kickstarter for more attention the anything else. There's nothing wrong with creating a dynamic subscription based system based on paying towards the support of other fans (they call it..."donation") but that's not really what Kickstarter is for and if they just implemented a donation system on their main site it probably wouldn't get the attention it's getting now.

Really it's just a matter of the rewards system being terrible, $15 for a bad joke, $25 for a digital copy of their book which is a print out of the digital copy of their comics that are already available on the internet...digitally?

The deeper you go into the rewards the more egocentric it becomes.

I respect what PA have done and continue to do but the execution on this is a bit flawed to me.

#99 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -
@Sin4profit: I can't imagine that the "Rewards" that they made up are anything more than a joke too. 
That's my guess at least
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#100 Posted by BirdkeeperDan (400 posts) -

Does anyone really care about the kickstarter rules? Sure it might not be the traditional kickstarter but it's completely voluntary, and I can't think of one single person who would get burned (other than those who voluntarily gave money). No ads, possibly more content for everyone. Man I hope they do more story pieces kindof like an extension to the stories in the games. The constant news driven comics really don`t do these guys justice.