#1 Edited by reelife (296 posts) -

I'm wondering if you guys are THAT attached to graphics. My game is up on greenlight and some of the comments baffle me, some people down vote games because of bad graphics.

Sorry if I misspelled >Steam<, I know how to spell it, my fingers slipped :3

#2 Posted by buft (3298 posts) -

downvotes dont count for shit, all that means is that the particular person doesnt want to see that game again

#3 Posted by TyCobb (1924 posts) -

Well, looking at this post with 0 specifics/pictures leads me to believe that your game must have really shitty graphics. Prove me wrong.

#4 Posted by Wacomole (811 posts) -

How good is the gameplay of your game?

I believe that if a game has stellar gameplay and/or innovation there are many people who will gloss over some sub-par graphics. But if you're not offering anything new or compelling game-wise, then poor graphics tends to be just another check in the minus column,

#5 Posted by believer258 (11035 posts) -

Poor graphics can definitely be a minus. They are not a reason for completely writing off a game, but it is kind of disappointing to see a game that simply looks bad.

#6 Posted by reelife (296 posts) -

@TyCobb: That wasen't my point really, but sure here you are.

#7 Posted by reelife (296 posts) -
#8 Posted by D_W (1071 posts) -

Down voting shouldn't even be part of the system.

#9 Posted by Kidavenger (3380 posts) -

I'm voting entirely based on what I would actually buy, graphics comes into it, but it isn't everything, there have been a few game I voted for that looked like ass.

#10 Posted by ShadowConqueror (2993 posts) -

Well first of all it's Steam, not "steem," and I have no problem with down voting due to bad graphics.

#11 Posted by Phatmac (5686 posts) -

Graphics are important as well as artistic style. If it doesn't interest me than that'll hurt the appeal of said game. Graphics are important.

#12 Posted by JoeyRavn (4885 posts) -

@D_W said:

Down voting shouldn't even be part of the system.

It's not. The button is labeled "No thanks/Not interested" and it doesn't even have a thumbs down. You don't vote "against" it, you simply pass on the game. "Negative" votes don't substract from the total. You can even modify your vote if you want.

So, yeah. Nothing to worry about, but people surely like to cry foul.

#13 Posted by Funkydupe (3293 posts) -

I find that graphics help me enjoy video gaming. Its the cold, lingering truth.

#14 Posted by reelife (296 posts) -

@ShadowConqueror:

Well, darn it. Sorry for pressing the E key twice.

#15 Posted by D_W (1071 posts) -
@JoeyRavn: @rebgav: While that is a relief, it doesn't make much sense to even have the button there. Surely they're still collecting the data for something.
#16 Posted by kgb0515 (411 posts) -

Those screens don't look bad. About as good as some of the stuff I see in ArmA 2/DayZ most of the time. What is the name of the game?

#17 Posted by reelife (296 posts) -

@kgb0515: Haunted Investigations, the problem is probably that I left some old videos and screenshots in there. =/ but still x)

#18 Posted by BeachThunder (11260 posts) -

I've been downvoting things that:

  • Look completely uninspired or look like gratuitous ripoffs of other games.
  • Have graphics that look like very little effort was put into them (stuff like MS paint scribble graphics, RPG Maker default sprites, etc...)
  • Only have images of concept art or seem like they're more of an idea than a complete game/almost a complete game.
#19 Posted by Levio (1781 posts) -

Beuty is in the eye of the beholder.

#20 Posted by JoeyRavn (4885 posts) -

@D_W said:

@JoeyRavn: @rebgav: While that is a relief, it doesn't make much sense to even have the button there. Surely they're still collecting the data for something.

Even if they are, you should be able to say that you are not interested in a game the same way you can say that you are.

And if you generate a random queue, the games that you have passed on won't show up anymore. If it you couldn't filter the games you want to see, people would complain about seeing games they don't want time and time again...

#21 Posted by Psycosis (388 posts) -

Well first of it's not a down vote but rather a no vote, it doesn't take away anything from the total upvotes, it's for making sure only new games show up in your queue and that's really it.

And it's a valid argument, I feel a lot of games are being submitted to Greenlight way too early. Even if games are being shown as an 'alpha' build, why should you vote it up on a promise? Steam does state it's best to submit the game whenever you feel ready to show it off, but there'll always be dicks out there that look at alpha build graphics and downvote because of it, and even has a programmer and designer myself, I'm one of those dicks.

I looked at your game and clicked not interested without a second thought, those screenshots are the first impression and if that can't draw someone in it's a lot harder to do after the fact. All the best in getting the game out to an audience, since there's obviously an audience for that type of game. Just remember if someone bashes your game for something like that, just move on, after all who cares? They aren't your audience.

#22 Posted by Rowr (5236 posts) -

Depends entirely with what your game most immediately competes with genre wise.

Graphics aren't always important if you can have a strong art design. Otherwise yuck.

#23 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@reelife: Your game looks fine, don't listen to them. If your game actually looked all that shitty, I'd understand it, because games hould be polished and complete packages if at all possible. But your game looks pretty nice, all things told. Maybe you could work on stuff, but making stuff is always an iterative process. Is your game gorgeous? No, it isn't. Could you make it look prettier? Probably. Maybe you should try importing your work into UDK and turning up all the shinies, because the assets look fine. Not fantastic, but they do the trick. Although it looks like your UV mapping on those headstones is a bit off, could be wrong I dunno. I might also scale back some of the grungy normal maps so they look sharper and more detailed, but that's more because the scale seems off rather than it looking bad per-say.

What ARE you building the game in?

#24 Posted by Wacomole (811 posts) -

@reelife said:

@kgb0515: Haunted Investigations, the problem is probably that I left some old videos and screenshots in there. =/ but still x)

Didn't Patrick play your game on the Big Live Live Show... and then you phoned in to complain that he didn't play it for long enough?

#25 Posted by Lukeweizer (2508 posts) -

I figured stuff like this would happen if you allowed the masses to vote on a game. That's all people would ever say about a game, especially the crowd that doesn't really care about games. You know the type of people I'm talking about. You're trying have a conversation about a game and then they just say 'But the graphics aren't very good', and they'll only say that because it's not a style of game they like. I haven't even bothered looking at Greenlight because there's going to be no good consensus about a game from a group of people that just judge shit without bothering to do any research.

#26 Posted by tourgen (4228 posts) -

@reelife: that looks pretty nice to me. I'd give it a shot depending on what type of game it is.

#27 Posted by wewantsthering (1459 posts) -

@BeachThunder said:

I've been downvoting things that:

  • Look completely uninspired or look like gratuitous ripoffs of other games.
  • Have graphics that look like very little effort was put into them (stuff like MS paint scribble graphics, RPG Maker default sprites, etc...)
  • Only have images of concept art or seem like they're more of an idea than a complete game/almost a complete game.

This is exactly my methodology as well.

#28 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

I wouldn't say that it's a bad reason to down-vote a game, everyone has their own personal checklist of what they look for in a game. Perhaps there was more to it than poor graphics; not everyone is going to spend their time providing list of reasons as to why they didn't vote for something.

#29 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -

@JoeyRavn said:

@D_W said:

Down voting shouldn't even be part of the system.

It's not. The button is labeled "No thanks/Not interested" and it doesn't even have a thumbs down. You don't vote "against" it, you simply pass on the game. "Negative" votes don't substract from the total. You can even modify your vote if you want.

Valve being a bunch of genius perfect motherfuckers as usual. God I hate those guys, they're too awesome.

#30 Posted by Little_Socrates (5649 posts) -

@MoleyUK said:

@reelife said:

@kgb0515: Haunted Investigations, the problem is probably that I left some old videos and screenshots in there. =/ but still x)

Didn't Patrick play your game on the Big Live Live Show... and then you phoned in to complain that he didn't play it for long enough?

I missed the call-in, but Patrick did play Haunted Investigations on the BLLSL, and it wasn't for nearly long enough. If that Spookin' with Patrick feature is going to become a regular thing, he better not do it live, because the ADD set in and made for a really shitty preview of Paranormal and Haunted Investigations. Not that I think HI actually looks that good after watching PewDiePie play it on YouTube, but even that stupid motherfucker (no disrespect, I like PewDie, he's just not very good at games most of the time) managed to get to some ghosts. Patrick played it for about 3 minutes and didn't find shit, then said "the game wasn't doing anything for him" and closed out of it.

#31 Posted by Spoonman671 (4371 posts) -

Good graphics > bad graphics.

#32 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

With respect, it kind of seems like you're just having difficulty accepting criticism. Not everyone is going to love what you make like your mother does.

#33 Posted by Bocam (3548 posts) -

If I think your game looks like shit, I'm not going to play it.

#34 Posted by crusader8463 (14305 posts) -

It matters, but I think most people who are too stupid to properly articulate why they dislike a game use bad graphics as a cop out rather then explain why they dislike a game. If a game doesn't look like fun to play then it's not fun. Bad graphics are really just a poop cherry on top of a poop sundae.

#35 Posted by reelife (296 posts) -

@MordeaniisChaos:

Unity engine, I've been working with UDK too but it is impossible to import the project. Need to start over from scrap.

#36 Posted by SaturdayNightSpecials (2233 posts) -

I am so much less interested in Greenlight now that I find downvoting doesn't do anything.

#37 Posted by reelife (296 posts) -

@Pinworm45: No, My question is are you down voting games on steam because bad graphics. My game aint good looking I know this, I can see. Not blind.

#38 Posted by reelife (296 posts) -

@MoleyUK:

Fuck yeah I called in xD! Dave asked me if there where something I was doing or wanted to share and so I did. The "complain" part you're talking about was just a side comment, I just said "Patrick played it for about 2 minutes :p".

#39 Posted by TruthTellah (7633 posts) -

@BeachThunder said:

I've been downvoting things that:

  • Look completely uninspired or look like gratuitous ripoffs of other games.
  • Have graphics that look like very little effort was put into them (stuff like MS paint scribble graphics, RPG Maker default sprites, etc...)
  • Only have images of concept art or seem like they're more of an idea than a complete game/almost a complete game.

1 and 3 seem reasonable, but 2 doesn't sound right. Have you seen what Bastion looked like before it hired its artist? It was placeholder art from a D&D guide. A lot of these projects are still in development and haven't hired on a real artist. So, dismissing them just because they're focused more on the gameplay mechanics and programming end(as they may just be a programmer or two) isn't fair to what the games really are. Definitely pass on them for being uninspired, ripoffs, or only concepts, but don't dismiss them just based on weak or placeholder graphics while the game is still in production.

#40 Posted by matti00 (663 posts) -

I saw some videos of Pewdiepie playing it, looked a bit homebrew at the time (which it probably is to be fair) but I could see the promise. Keep at it dude.

#41 Posted by ShaggE (5980 posts) -

Oh man, I was cringing when Patrick kind of skimmed over your game like that. I still can't put my finger on why the cabin level leaves me so shaken, but whatever it is, it's excellent stuff. My last time playing it was during my recording of the school level (that I never finished... my commentary just wasn't getting any better), so I really should see what you've done with it since. I'm starving for a good bit o' horror.

#42 Edited by envane (1156 posts) -

@reelife: didnt patrick play that first in the scary games segment ?

if thats the same game , then it looked cool , but ultimately a one trick pony and very limited experience , but i guess thats the major challenge with horror games .

and also congrats on making a horror game that isnt a slenderman game (unless it is and we just didnt get to that bit ehehe)

but yeah .. people are picky , if anything your actual enviroments look nice its the font and menus that look straight out of paintbrush , which is easily fixed with some polish , people WILL judge a game by its graphics , because thats the only tangible and evocative thing we can latch onto without seeing gameplay / experiencing the story / firsthand etc.

edit: @TruthTellah: they didnt start marketing bastion until they had the final art in game , and ppl went nuts for it .. THEN they showed the prototypes to us on the happy hour etc .. if they had started with those placeholder graphics i dont think even greg kasavins name would have stopped a deluge of WHAT IS THIS SHIT???

another edit: that being said , i agree that games shouldnt be judged prematurely , but people shouldnt be trying to release a tech demo or alpha on greenlight (they know this too and mainly use it for advertising and word of mouth).

#43 Posted by pornstorestiffi (4905 posts) -

@BeachThunder said:

I've been downvoting things that:

  • Look completely uninspired or look like gratuitous ripoffs of other games.
  • Have graphics that look like very little effort was put into them (stuff like MS paint scribble graphics, RPG Maker default sprites, etc...)
  • Only have images of concept art or seem like they're more of an idea than a complete game/almost a complete game.

This is pretty much what i have been doing also.

#44 Edited by JoeyRavn (4885 posts) -

@reelife said:

@Pinworm45: No, My question is are you down voting games on steam because bad graphics. My game aint good looking I know this, I can see. Not blind.

Again: "negative" votes don't count. Why would you care if someone passes on your game just because it has bad graphics? Not voting for a game and not being interested on it have the exact same weight: nothing.

#45 Posted by envane (1156 posts) -

its not uncommon to take all the criticism extremely personally , especially if you are creating something as a labor of love, and you are entitled to vent your frustration at the fickle nature of people.. mabye i listen to too much jonathan holmes , but he was talking about this on the podtoid podcast in reference to jonathan blow and his antagonistic choices to dealing with internet criticism.. seems perfectly natural for the OP to respond this way , and also for the people saying NO to be as fickle as they are .. human nature my friend human nature .. if anything if yorue making a horror game one would expect you to understand these psychological concepts a bit more broadly ( i mean how else are you going instill a sense of horror without first properly understanding the psychology behind fear,anxiety,anger,shame etc .... )

shit got meta

#46 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@reelife said:

@MordeaniisChaos:

Unity engine, I've been working with UDK too but it is impossible to import the project. Need to start over from scrap.

I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to port over, as UDK is pretty easy to work within, and assets are usually pretty easy to move between games as long as you have models and stuff left over. It'd probably be a decent bit of work recrafting the geometry, but you could do it. but it doesn't really matter. You should certainly mess around with UDK at some point, because the extra rendering power that it supplies will help a lot, especially in games with a lot of atmosphere like yours.

#47 Posted by reelife (296 posts) -

@envane:

Thanks dude, your comment is by far the most mature one I've seen in a long time. Well yes understanding the psychology is hard but I think I nailed it at some points, atleast that's what I've gathered from watching people playing the game. I know that I might've went out of hand a bit... I'm frustrated that's why, I've been working on this game since April, 9 hours a day. Then when you put it out the first thing you get is "Graphics, bad, downvote LULZ".I think I need a vacation.

Also, no Slenderman is not in this game ;) but I do have an easter egg. You collect a note on a tree, then a stick figure appear behind you x)

#48 Posted by Mnemoidian (944 posts) -

The thing here, is that Greenlight is about trying to convince Consumers to play your game.

So, It's advertising.

I've not looked at your game on Greenlight yet, but I've seen a lot of games on Greenlight that do a terrible job of explaining why you should be interested in their games - everything from having every bloody lets play video anyone has ever made of the game (including ones that are negative towards it).

Personally - bad graphics are not something I'd condemn something for. But the graphics are the first thing you see of the game (well, after the name of the game and possibly the logo), and is your first impresion. If the graphics are "bad", and the hook of the game is not apparent...

Meanwhile, a game with amazing graphics has the initial impression going for it. And if the reader has a short attentionspan, that may be enough to get a vote up.

So, basically - if this is an issue for your game, look into how you can market it in such a way that the screenshots and videos available inform the consumer of why your game is awesome, without distracting them with screenshots that could have been taken from any game a couple of years ago. Market for your strengths, don't advertise your weaknesses. If you want to have additional screenshots, host them elsewhere.

*shrug* Just some thoughts I've had since Greenlight was launched, and seeing how few (on Greenlight) understand what Greenlight is.

#49 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7612 posts) -

@BeachThunder said:

I've been downvoting things that:

  • Look completely uninspired or look like gratuitous ripoffs of other games.
  • Have graphics that look like very little effort was put into them (stuff like MS paint scribble graphics, RPG Maker default sprites, etc...)
  • Only have images of concept art or seem like they're more of an idea than a complete game/almost a complete game.

I'd also add:

  • Anything involving the Slender man.
#50 Posted by envane (1156 posts) -

@reelife: DOWNVOTE FOR SPOILERS

j/k ... yeah man take a break ..

on another note do you need any sound/music? , would gladly contribute something , or to any future projects , http://soundcloud.com/polybloke check out the ambient section of rBoken (after say 20min mark) or Sentry (alot of it) .. these werent in any way made with that intention in mind tho , i have A HUGE collection of recorded stuff already (just too cheap to get a paid soundloud account with more storage), and can easily design to a draft if theres anything specific you require.. the soundtrack/sounddesign is the one thing i didnt get any real sense of in the live show because i was listeting to dave talk over it eheh, so im not sure whats already there.