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#1 Posted by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -

I find it kind of annoying that many people who don't know shit, or are just talking based on some sort of cultural stereotype continue to complain about the actors in the upcoming Prince of Persia movie not being brown... Pure Persians descend from the Aryan race, meaning those that have not intermixed with other middle eastern countries over time, will have very white skin, as well as having hazel brown hair and eye color. The name Iran actually has its roots in the word Aryan as well. This is what was bugging me in case you were wondering.
 
Now, like I've said before, I wouldn't mind if the actors in the Prince of Persia movie were actual Persians, but honestly, coming from a Persian man, there are not that many actors I would be happy seeing in a big budget Jerry Bruckheimer movie anyways. So if I don't see any problems with it, I don't know why a bunch of other people do. Also at the time these movies take place (even if it is a fantasy movie) Persia was an empire that had many countries within it so yeah. A little rant, sorry.

#2 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

You understand ultimately the casting choice had nothing to do with this, though. The Prince is white because more people are comfortable with a white protagonist in English speaking countries. Likewise, that's why he's got a vaguely british accent. The reality of Persia is kind of just a coincidence, I'd wager.

#3 Edited by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -
@ryanwho:  No, the casting choice was done because he was an actor who went through the trouble of trying to get the role. Had a Persian actor, with the chops to do it applied, I doubt he would have been turned down, simply because of his race.
#4 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

I feel like you've given this infinitely more thought than the people in the movie did. That's just my feeling. Ben Kingsley isn't Persian but he got the job by being "ethnic looking", and there are plenty of ethnic looking lesser known male actors that could have filled this role. If they were interested in filling the role with that kind of actor.

#5 Posted by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -
@ryanwho:  There is all kinds of stuff wrong with the Prince of Persia series, when it comes to background stuff. For example I remember them saying that for Prince of Persia 2008 they were going for a more Arabian nights feel. I think you can figure out what's wrong with that sentence on your own, but in reality Prince of Persia 2008 was the most faithful Prince of Persia ever, with the story being based on the Zoroastrian religion as well as Elika speaking Farsi when ever you used her, despite that main character being voiced by Nolan North. Even in the Forgotten Sands, Ratash speaks in Farsi, so I think they have given it some thought. It's more a problem when people who don't know what they are talking about, sit down and start complaining.
#6 Posted by btman (1038 posts) -

We all descended from Africa.  Why aren't we all black?

#7 Posted by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -
@btman said:
" We all descended from Africa.  Why aren't we all black? "
Wow this is so... wow...
#8 Posted by Bones8677 (3210 posts) -

Wait, there actually existed an Aryan Race? I thought that was just a fanciful name the Nazi's created to describe themselves. huh...

#9 Posted by Bones8677 (3210 posts) -
@btman said:
" We all descended from Africa.  Why aren't we all black? "
Because no sun exists in Britain. Thus all the nomad's skin became pale over time.
#10 Posted by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -
@Bones8677 said:
" Wait, there actually existed an Aryan Race? I thought that was just a fanciful name the Nazi's created to describe themselves. huh... "
No, it was an actual race.
#11 Posted by Claude (16254 posts) -

Wikipedia states it's a concept not really a race. Caucasian would more appropriate.

#12 Posted by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -
@Claude:  It arrives at the same point I suppose. Aryan is known as basically a term relating to group of Caucasians.
#13 Edited by artofwar420 (6251 posts) -

Current Persia and ancient Persia are not quite the same. Time changes and so do ethnicities, long ago there was just one.

#14 Posted by ZanzibarBreeze (3069 posts) -

The original Greeks were fair-haired and had blue eyes. The Trojans were called the most beautiful race on Earth; actually they were just Greeks who'd moved east. They were all quite fair. With interracial relationships the typical Greek makeup turned into what it is today. The mention of Aryans brought this up. Evidence shows the Greek pagan gods were all imagined as fair, too. Maybe the caucasian archetype arose in Southern Europe before moving north.

#15 Posted by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -
@artofwar420:  Not true. There are still members who have not breaded interracial and are still quite fair. Also, since Prince of Persia is based on ancient Persia, even if it is fantasy, it makes sense that the hero is fair skinned.
#16 Edited by Meowshi (2911 posts) -
@LiquidPrince said:

" @ryanwho:  No, the casting choice was done because he was an actor who went through the trouble of trying to get the role. Had a Persian actor, with the chops to do it applied, I doubt he would have been turned down, simply because of his race. "

You live in a fantasy world.
 
They were never going to cast anyone but a white man for this movie.  You're either being intentionally silly or know nothing about American mainstream cinema. 
#17 Edited by innacces14 (735 posts) -
@LiquidPrince:  Remember a long while back when the movie Memoirs of a Geisha was in the works and some peeps were mad cause the casting was filled with Chinese actors instead of Japanese? My pops said one thing when the news about it popped up on tv and it stuck with me ever since; 
 
"Okay? Fine. How about we find real Jedi to portray Jedi. It's called being a fucking actor. Who cares where they're from?" 
 
EDIT: 
@Meowshi: My bad. Reply was intended for LiquidPrince. =/
#18 Posted by jrbl1 (171 posts) -

The country is being controlled by corporations and is going to hell and it always amazes me what people choose to worry about. 

#19 Posted by Emilio (3380 posts) -

Does this mean that the German Nazis were the false Aryans?

#20 Posted by Cube (4366 posts) -
@jrbl1: Nothing we can really do about that, though.
#21 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@ryanwho said:
 Ben Kingsley isn't Persian but he got the job by being "ethnic looking"
I both love this, and fucking hate it at the same time. It just makes my brain stop working. 
 
It's like, to American movie makers, everyone who isn't from Hollywood is from "somewhere else". Kinda like how David Suchet (a well renowned BRITISH stage and television actor) keeps getting cast as like, Arab Terrorists and other random roles from all over (he is most well known for being Poirot) and Jeromy Irons, another well renowned British actor, Die Hard 3... it's like, what happened "Oh, you're European right? Do a German accent"... 
 
So yeah, however much thought the OP did (or didn't) put into the issue, the movie makers clearly, did not do the same. The actors are white because they wanted them to be white, everything else around the issue is purely coincidental.
#22 Posted by teh_pwnzorer (1482 posts) -
@LiquidPrince: Freddie Mercury was fairly pale.  Case closed.
 
Although a Caucasian (other than a ginger or an albino) spending a lot of time outdoors in the desert will tan.
#23 Posted by Cube (4366 posts) -
@teh_pwnzorer: Excellent example. Freddie Mercury could have passed for a white guy. 
#24 Posted by jrbl1 (171 posts) -
@Cube:   Yes, we should all just bend over and take it.  It is a battle but we still elect our government.  So their is stuff we could do.  There are many organizations for the removal of lobbyists and reforming campaign contributions.  I for one don't vote for anyone that isn't for campaign contribution reform.   This is the one issue where Democrats and Republicans can agree.  To bad everyone is distracted by everything else.  To me nothing matters until this is fixed.  Whether Democrat or Republican everything that has been passed in the last 20 years has been almost entirely to benefit the largest corporations.  Even when something is passed for the people it is so convoluted with special interest B.S. it is worthless.  It isn't easy but it needs to be done or instead of the White House it will be called Exxon House or Smith Barney House.   Join a group like Move On or the Coffee Party or any political group that sees this as the primary problem in this country.  Educate yourself and then you will be able to educate others. 
#25 Posted by sodiumCyclops (2644 posts) -

I think it's a great move to have Jake as the prince. There are pretty much no good actors that have darker skin though would suit the role.

#26 Posted by masterpaperlink (1829 posts) -

This information wasn't relevant

#27 Posted by Cube (4366 posts) -
@jrbl1: I am educated. I know all of this. I just acknowledge the fact that no matter what I do, nothing will change. If there is change to be had, it's certainly not in my lifetime. Negative thinking breeds negative results, but the general population isn't quite threatened enough personally to do a damn thing. Not yet. 
#28 Posted by jrbl1 (171 posts) -
@Cube:   I don't recall saying you were uneducated but what would the word be for someone that is either ignorant to what is going on or knows what is going on but chooses to ignore it.  Either way not related to this post.  I was just trying to give you some information, if you choose to decide it is irrelevant then so be it.
#29 Edited by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@LiquidPrince said:

" I find it kind of annoying that many people who don't know shit, or are just talking based on some sort of cultural stereotype continue to complain about the actors in the upcoming Prince of Persia movie not being brown... Pure Persians descend from the Aryan race, meaning those that have not intermixed with other middle eastern countries over time, will have very white skin, as well as having hazel brown hair and eye color. The name Iran actually has its roots in the word Aryan as well. This is what was bugging me in case you were wondering.  Now, like I've said before, I wouldn't mind if the actors in the Prince of Persia movie were actual Persians, but honestly, coming from a Persian man, there are not that many actors I would be happy seeing in a big budget Jerry Bruckheimer movie anyways. So if I don't see any problems with it, I don't know why a bunch of other people do. Also at the time these movies take place (even if it is a fantasy movie) Persia was an empire that had many countries within it so yeah. A little rant, sorry. "

The word Aryan was misused by Hitler.  Aryan does not mean blonde/blue eyes.  It's the root genus of the Indian and Persian races.  A distinct root of the Spanish too.
#30 Posted by dudeglove (7688 posts) -

Can someone say Godwin's law yet?

#31 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -

As someone who's taken anthropology classes...I feel like interjecting....but I know people will just shun me...

#32 Posted by teh_pwnzorer (1482 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
"  It's the root genus of the Indian and Persian races.  A distinct root of the Spanish too. "
 
Did you pull that out of your arse?   Read about y-chromosome haplogroups and mitochondrial DNA.  Most Iberian males have R1b y-chromosomes (typical western european marker).  R1a is more typical of Eastern europeans and northern indians.
#33 Posted by Mono_Listo (430 posts) -
@LiquidPrince: You're of course correct in regards to "Aryan" and Persia (the first time I came across the word Aryan beyond some racist mythology was during Persian history studies). But much like games and other fiction based loosely on old US Western history, ancient China, etc, the creators are aiming to capture the romance of the period(s) and people and not aiming for historical accuracy. Nowhere is that more evident than in Hollywood.
 
So, I think, it's a pretty trivial matter to take odds with.
#34 Edited by GlenTennis (3144 posts) -
@ryanwho said:

" You understand ultimately the casting choice had nothing to do with this, though. The Prince is white because more people are comfortable with a white protagonist in English speaking countries. Likewise, that's why he's got a vaguely british accent. The reality of Persia is kind of just a coincidence, I'd wager. "

Similar to this, but less cynical. Every single move in the movie industry is thought through so intensely that nothing is ever done accidentally. I'm sure Jake G. was the final choice out of a very similar (white) group of actors to play the prince. 
 
My only problem with the film is that they didn't get Prince to play the prince. Or Freddy Prinze Jr.
#35 Posted by Ineedaname (4319 posts) -

I think you'll find the Persian army descends upon you.

#36 Edited by teh_pwnzorer (1482 posts) -
@GlenTennis: Also, not one of the non-Iranian actors is an actual prince.  Someone should raise this issue, as well.   Is Sylvester Stallone an actual boxer?   In cartoons, the characters aren't even real.
#37 Edited by Mono_Listo (430 posts) -

Just to opine on the idea that more people are comfortable with Caucasian lead males, that's not exactly true. Keanu Reeves (crazily Hawaiian name) is clearly half Asian. And that fool puts assess into seats. Denzel Washington is one of the biggest stars of the last decade. Will Smith has replaced at least one white character in a blockbuster (I Am Legend).  Then there's also the plethora of Asian male leads - albiet, they tend to be typecast.
 
I think that in the case of Prince of Persia Gylenhall was a big star that wanted the part and looked "Persian enough" for the part. Since it's kind of inescapable when the person's race is declared in the title (unlike, and callback, to Reeves replacing the blonde-haired British Constantine - since 99% of movie viewers have probably never heard of either Hellblazer or John Constantine).

#38 Edited by VilhelmNielsen (1734 posts) -

To the point, my mother recently claimed that Jake Gyllenhaal was of Middle-Eastern descent, even though it's pretty obvious that he's not.
 
Now my mother ain't no racist, she just has poor sight. So I guess he could pass as a persian prince.

#39 Posted by GlenTennis (3144 posts) -
@teh_pwnzorer: Don't get me wrong. This is just why I think it is the way it is, I couldn't care less who they casted because I'm not going to go see it. Unless they casted Jeff Goldblum as the Prince. I would see that.
 
@Mono_Listo:
I took a sociology of film class once and learned that, shockingly enough, certain actors fill certain roles. Black actors have come a long way and can totally be accepted as "heroes."  But look at women. How often do you see a powerful woman lead in say, an action-crime-drama movie? How about a middle eastern man? An Asian (in an American film at least). Now compare these all to the times you see a Caucasian male filling that role. Sure a lot has changed even in the past 10-15 years, but the subtle residue of indirect racism still exists in many Americans.
 
Also I didn't know that about Keanu.
#40 Posted by teh_pwnzorer (1482 posts) -
@VilhelmNielsen said:
" To the point, my mother recently claimed that Jake Gyllenhaal was of Middle-Eastern descent, even though it's pretty obvious that he's not.  Now my mother ain't no racist, she just has poor sight. So I guess he could pass as a persian prince. "
I just looked it up: His father is Swedish.  His mother is Jewish.  There was a large Jewish community in Persia.  Case closed...again.
#41 Edited by Mono_Listo (430 posts) -
@GlenTennis: Point taken, and I can't disagree for the most part. However, Yun-Phat Chow has had some starring roles (King and I, Replacement Killers) when it was rare as hell that an Asian was on screen that wasn't either a villain or Bruce Lee trope.
 
And there have been leading women in "power roles", just never action until recently (unless it was like an old Blaxploitation movie). So again, I concede your point there. But that's more about the female's role within in society. But I think that's rapidly changing, even if it does usually involve Angelina Jolie or Sandra Bullock (although those parts do usually distill down to some male idea of female sexuality).
 
And you seriously looked at Keanu's very Japanese features (especially the eyes), along with his name, and didn't realize that? Hehe, I bet you're not alone. But as a half Asian man myself, I saw it back in the Bill and Ted days.
#42 Posted by GlenTennis (3144 posts) -
@Mono_Listo said:
 And you seriously looked at Keanu's very Japanese features (especially the eyes), along with his name, and didn't realize that?

It does make sense now that I think about it. I just thought that... it was uh... the Matrix.
#43 Edited by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@teh_pwnzorer said:

" @SeriouslyNow said:

"  It's the root genus of the Indian and Persian races.  A distinct root of the Spanish too. "
 Did you pull that out of your arse?   Read about y-chromosome haplogroups and mitochondrial DNA.  Most Iberian males have R1b y-chromosomes (typical western european marker).  R1a is more typical of Eastern europeans and northern indians. "
Fuck your genetics faux science crap.  I'm talking about the word Aryan and it's historical context you psuedo-intellectual college undergrad.  Go learn some history instead of trying to shit on people with hitherto unproveable scientific theories. I linked to the word and its historical context.  Aryan's are not blond/blue eyed and Indians, Middle Easterners and Europeans share many genetic markers and historical/tribal backgrounds. 
#44 Posted by Mono_Listo (430 posts) -
@GlenTennis:  LOL
 
He is white as a mother fucker though, so I completely understand why people didn't see it at first.
#45 Posted by teh_pwnzorer (1482 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @teh_pwnzorer said:

" @SeriouslyNow said:

"  It's the root genus of the Indian and Persian races.  A distinct root of the Spanish too. "
 Did you pull that out of your arse?   Read about y-chromosome haplogroups and mitochondrial DNA.  Most Iberian males have R1b y-chromosomes (typical western european marker).  R1a is more typical of Eastern europeans and northern indians. "
Fuck your genetics faux science crap.  I'm talking about the word Aryan and it's historical context you psuedo-intellectual college undergrad.  Go learn some history instead of trying to shit on people with hitherto unproveable scientific theories. I linked to the word and its historical context.  Aryan's are not blond/blue eyed and Indians, Middle Easterners and Europeans share many genetic markers and historical/tribal backgrounds.  "
Wow, is your aluminum foil hat on too tight?  Take your meds.
#46 Posted by Jaqen_HGhar (866 posts) -

Who cares, since Jake Gyllehblabdah looks fairly like the Prince from the games anyway.  Even his voice is pretty good from what I remember from the games and the trailers I have seen. Not seen the movie yet though... don't think it is worth the ticket price.

Online
#47 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@teh_pwnzorer said:
" @SeriouslyNow said:
" @teh_pwnzorer said:

" @SeriouslyNow said:

"  It's the root genus of the Indian and Persian races.  A distinct root of the Spanish too. "
 Did you pull that out of your arse?   Read about y-chromosome haplogroups and mitochondrial DNA.  Most Iberian males have R1b y-chromosomes (typical western european marker).  R1a is more typical of Eastern europeans and northern indians. "
Fuck your genetics faux science crap.  I'm talking about the word Aryan and it's historical context you psuedo-intellectual college undergrad.  Go learn some history instead of trying to shit on people with hitherto unproveable scientific theories. I linked to the word and its historical context.  Aryan's are not blond/blue eyed and Indians, Middle Easterners and Europeans share many genetic markers and historical/tribal backgrounds.  "
Wow, is your aluminum foil hat on too tight?  Take your meds. "
I don't doubt the genetics of the process, but when you ignore history, culture and civilisation to come at me with some haughty sense of egotism you can rightly get stuffed.
 
you totally teh_pwnzorered me.
#48 Posted by teh_pwnzorer (1482 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @teh_pwnzorer said:
" @SeriouslyNow said:
" @teh_pwnzorer said:

" @SeriouslyNow said:

"  It's the root genus of the Indian and Persian races.  A distinct root of the Spanish too. "
 Did you pull that out of your arse?   Read about y-chromosome haplogroups and mitochondrial DNA.  Most Iberian males have R1b y-chromosomes (typical western european marker).  R1a is more typical of Eastern europeans and northern indians. "
Fuck your genetics faux science crap.  I'm talking about the word Aryan and it's historical context you psuedo-intellectual college undergrad.  Go learn some history instead of trying to shit on people with hitherto unproveable scientific theories. I linked to the word and its historical context.  Aryan's are not blond/blue eyed and Indians, Middle Easterners and Europeans share many genetic markers and historical/tribal backgrounds.  "
Wow, is your aluminum foil hat on too tight?  Take your meds. "
I don't doubt the genetics of the process, but when you ignore history, culture and civilisation to come at me with some haughty sense of egotism you can rightly get stuffed.  you totally teh_pwnzorered me. "
BTW,  I never attempted to imply that Indo-Europeans are *not* Indo-Europeans.  I'm guessing this is a simple misunderstanding (on my part, as well).
#49 Posted by JCGamer (659 posts) -

Whatever guys, the thing that bothers me is the fake british accent Jake has.  Why the hell does he have a british accent?  Anytime Hollywood wants to make something somewhat exotic but not alienating, they give the cast a british accent.  Also hate it when movies have people who are supposed to be speaking their native language, speak english with said foreign accent.  Why does it make more sense for a German (who is supposed to be speaking German) speak English with a German accent (or even worse, a British accent) than some dude speaking English with an "american" accent.  One of the reasons why I loved Inglorious Basterds was Tarantino's take on language.

#50 Posted by LiquidPrince (15843 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow:  I never said Aryan meant Blond hair and Blue eyes.
 
@Mono_Listo:  My problem stems from the fact that people say things like lets cast people of Indian descent because they look more Persian, as is evident in this thread. That clearly shows people have no clue what they are talking about.