PES 2013 QL vs NBA 2K13 QL, some opinions inside.

Make sure you watch it first, as well as the nba one.

My take on the PES QL:

1. QL did demonstrate some serious technical issues with this version of PES; it might not matter for hardcore player, but nonetheless disappointing and worth noting.

2. QL did show Jeff (and probably Vinny) have no experience playing this or previous version of PES; this is unlike NBA or Madden, which there were "an era when they still enjoy those games", I am guessing PES or FIFA were never part of their video game vein.

3. This is why some people (me included), were disappointed not only by the game itself, but this QL; even when a reviewer dislike a game, RE6 for example, some comments to explain why a game fall short would be appreciated.

4. I think my problem also raise from fact that QL now serves as an introduction to game (instead of video review); you might argue sport games are not what GB is for, but listening to Jeff's "Jar talk" made me believe GB shouldn't just be fun without bottom-line standard.

5. I felt sad that, PES 2013 are treated with harsh dismiss, when Tokyo Jungle were welcomed with open arms: I think they are both "foreign" to GB crews, why not try to evalute it instead of saying "don't care"?

TL;DR:

I believe when GB crews have some basic understanding of a sport game (see NBA QL), their comment often sound both funnier and less like total dick...

1. Yeah that frame rate was bad.

2. Kinda like how America doesn't fancy soccer...or how Vinny and Jeff don't fancy soccer.

3. Oh awesome, quick looks are now fully formed reviews and opinions.

4. What do you want them to do? These forums are so filled with dudes clamoring for soccer game coverage.

5. Cause it's a soccer game. Do you want them to force themselves to play through it and enjoy it? To who's benefit is that? Do you like soccer? How about videogames? Yo maybe play PES or FIFA.

You should relax, they're not gonna get into soccer anytime soon. PES was pretty funny as was the NBA one. I hope they do more uninformed quick looks, it's a funny hour long video on the internet. Let's let things go.

I never understood people who get personally insulted whenever they do a funny / misinformed Quick Look.

The quick look's they have done with the sport games are far better than they would be if they actually cared about the sport.

@Doctorchimp said:

1. Yeah that frame rate was bad.

2. Kinda like how America doesn't fancy soccer...or how Vinny and Jeff don't fancy soccer.

3. Oh awesome, quick looks are now fully formed reviews and opinions.

4. What do you want them to do? These forums are so filled with dudes clamoring for soccer game coverage.

5. Cause it's a soccer game. Do you want them to force themselves to play through it and enjoy it? To who's benefit is that? Do you like soccer? How about videogames? Yo maybe play PES or FIFA.

You should relax, they're not gonna get into soccer anytime soon. PES was pretty funny as was the NBA one. I hope they do more uninformed quick looks, it's a funny hour long video on the internet. Let's let things go.

RE6 doesn't have video review, all it got is a quick look + text review, and Brad live to tell what's wrong about it in QL.

Unlike other QL(s), I don't think PES QL generates any interests or understanding towards the game (other than dismissing it as bad, which ironically is formed based on this QL, not thorough review).

Personally, I'd rather QLs feature the staff dismissing every game as bad and uninteresting. Funnier that way.

@df said:

@Doctorchimp said:

1. Yeah that frame rate was bad.

2. Kinda like how America doesn't fancy soccer...or how Vinny and Jeff don't fancy soccer.

3. Oh awesome, quick looks are now fully formed reviews and opinions.

4. What do you want them to do? These forums are so filled with dudes clamoring for soccer game coverage.

5. Cause it's a soccer game. Do you want them to force themselves to play through it and enjoy it? To who's benefit is that? Do you like soccer? How about videogames? Yo maybe play PES or FIFA.

You should relax, they're not gonna get into soccer anytime soon. PES was pretty funny as was the NBA one. I hope they do more uninformed quick looks, it's a funny hour long video on the internet. Let's let things go.

RE6 doesn't have video review, all it got is a quick look + text review, and Brad live to tell what's wrong about it in QL.

Unlike other QL(s), I don't think PES QL generates any interests or understanding towards the game (other than dismissing it as bad, which ironically is formed based on this QL, not thorough review).

They specifically say why Resident Evil 6 is a bad game in their opinion.

In the PES quick look they specifically call out that they know nothing about soccer, and they couldn't give a shit less about soccer and that's why they don't like it. Where did they say it was a bad game in the quick look? They weren't interested and thought soccer was dumb.

Sports games quick looks are entertaining, that's enough for me. They probably shouldn't even try to formulate an opinion when they know absolutely nothing about the sport, but it's nothing to be upset about.

@Cincaid said:

I never understood people who get personally insulted whenever they do a funny / misinformed Quick Look.

Yeah, the "How dare they not care about the thing I love as much as I do?!" mentality is just sad.

@Doctorchimp said:

@df said:

@Doctorchimp said:

1. Yeah that frame rate was bad.

2. Kinda like how America doesn't fancy soccer...or how Vinny and Jeff don't fancy soccer.

3. Oh awesome, quick looks are now fully formed reviews and opinions.

4. What do you want them to do? These forums are so filled with dudes clamoring for soccer game coverage.

5. Cause it's a soccer game. Do you want them to force themselves to play through it and enjoy it? To who's benefit is that? Do you like soccer? How about videogames? Yo maybe play PES or FIFA.

You should relax, they're not gonna get into soccer anytime soon. PES was pretty funny as was the NBA one. I hope they do more uninformed quick looks, it's a funny hour long video on the internet. Let's let things go.

RE6 doesn't have video review, all it got is a quick look + text review, and Brad live to tell what's wrong about it in QL.

Unlike other QL(s), I don't think PES QL generates any interests or understanding towards the game (other than dismissing it as bad, which ironically is formed based on this QL, not thorough review).

They specifically say why Resident Evil 6 is a bad game in their opinion.

In the PES quick look they specifically call out that they know nothing about soccer, and they couldn't give a shit less about soccer and that's why they don't like it. Where did they say it was a bad game in the quick look? They weren't interested and thought soccer was dumb.

Then I don't think they should be doing this QL just to make fun of sport game?

When Patrick recommend Tokyo Jungle at least he's sincere, when Jeff says "I hate it" at the end of PES match with Vinny, it's not because of techinical issue, but because he doesn't care.

I understand they need to produce content to keep people coming to GB, but PES QL comes to me as a joke with bad faith.

@df said:

@Doctorchimp said:

@df said:

@Doctorchimp said:

1. Yeah that frame rate was bad.

2. Kinda like how America doesn't fancy soccer...or how Vinny and Jeff don't fancy soccer.

3. Oh awesome, quick looks are now fully formed reviews and opinions.

4. What do you want them to do? These forums are so filled with dudes clamoring for soccer game coverage.

5. Cause it's a soccer game. Do you want them to force themselves to play through it and enjoy it? To who's benefit is that? Do you like soccer? How about videogames? Yo maybe play PES or FIFA.

You should relax, they're not gonna get into soccer anytime soon. PES was pretty funny as was the NBA one. I hope they do more uninformed quick looks, it's a funny hour long video on the internet. Let's let things go.

RE6 doesn't have video review, all it got is a quick look + text review, and Brad live to tell what's wrong about it in QL.

Unlike other QL(s), I don't think PES QL generates any interests or understanding towards the game (other than dismissing it as bad, which ironically is formed based on this QL, not thorough review).

They specifically say why Resident Evil 6 is a bad game in their opinion.

In the PES quick look they specifically call out that they know nothing about soccer, and they couldn't give a shit less about soccer and that's why they don't like it. Where did they say it was a bad game in the quick look? They weren't interested and thought soccer was dumb.

Then I don't think they should be doing this QL just to make fun of sport game?

When Patrick recommend Tokyo Jungle at least he's sincere, when Jeff says "I hate it" at the end of PES match with Vinny, it's not because of techinical issue, but because he doesn't care.

I understand they need to produce content to keep people coming to GB, but PES QL comes to me as a joke with bad faith.

But I laughed and I liked it....and I hope they do more, which they probably will.

What now?

@df said:

4. I think my problem also raise from fact that QL now serves as an introduction to game (instead of video review); you might argue sport games are not what GB is for, but listening to Jeff's "Jar talk" made me believe GB shouldn't just be fun without bottom-line standard.

Sports games have never been something that GiantBomb will cover normally beyond reviews that Alex writes, and weren't even covered beyond the random quick look of Madden done by Jeff and Ryan back in the days before Alex wrote the reviews for sports game. If you expect to see something serious from them when it comes to sports games, you're in the wrong place. Personally I enjoy the quick looks that they do for sports games, because otherwise they'd be absolutely boring as all hell...and I'm someone who likes sports and sports games.

It's only PES, that series went down the shitter after 2006 I believe.

@Sooty said:

It's only PES, that series went down the shitter after 2006 I believe.

I would agree with that except that I thing 2013 is pretty good.@df said:

I believe when GB crews have some basic understanding of a sport game (see NBA QL), their comment often sound both funnier and less like total dick...

The problem is that they know nothing about soccer/football. Even trying to get a basic understanding of PES would take a long fucking time and it still would probably be infuriating for the people who play PES every year. I like it better this way. It's at least hilarious.

Maybe if more sports tried to improve themselves and not just put out the same game every year but with new dynamic tactical superhappyfun ai and grass effects they wouldn't get the piss taken out of them. They also need to learn to make menus. It really ain't that hard

I think it's odd that you think Quick Look's ever served as a review. This was clearly just for laughs. I hope you're not looking forward to an honest assessment of Farming Simulator 2013 next week!

Also this year's PES is actually the best in years - I never experienced any frame rate drops like they did.

As somebody who does actually like football and football games, the only issue I really had was that the goal scoring madness that would have ensued from their piss poor defense had they actually known how to shoot(not slamming the shot button full force) would have been way more entertaining.

Otherwise, their ignorance and general disdain for football made for some pretty good watching.

I think there are some people who need to remove the stick that seems to be wedged in their hindquarters. All of the Vinny & Jeff sports Quick Looks have been hilarious. It's a couple of pasty video game nerds who don't really know and don't really care about sports. It's all done for a laugh and shouldn't be taken the least bit seriously.

My problem with the PES Quick Look was, while it was very entertaining for about 3/4 of it, was that these guys have played more than enough games to notice the little things and yet they seemed to willfully ignore the meters underneath an offensive player determining the strength of the kick. I was laughing due to their reactions, but also just to how absurdly inattentive they were of the game itself; it's not hard to notice they're tapping X for a pass and JAMMING on square for a kick because that meter under the player explicitly tells viewers so. I felt sort of bad for them that they played a game for nearly 30 minutes and couldn't even figure out the basic fundamentals, let alone the through passes or how to kick a cross/hit a header. I haven't owned a soccer game since Winning Eleven 6 but it's just awkward to watch guys seemingly make a game look poor on purpose just because they don't like soccer; imagine of Jeff & Vinny didn't like guns or cars?

NBA 2K is my favorite game series other than GTA, but I could take that one with more of a grain of salt since they openly calibrated the game for a casual experience and played with goofy teams like the Celebrity team and, like you said, they came to the game with at least a minor understanding of the sport. Again, PES 2013 was a funny ass quick look, especially Jeff's remarks about not wanting to do FIFA this year because "word on the street is it's more soccer", but you still have to wonder why do that QL if you're going into the game totally uninterested in learning how to play it?

That said, I totally get the point of all this and enjoy them for what they are; the NBA 2K QL was even enlightening because I've been playing that series since its inception and long ago became immune to its many nuances, only struggling to learn the subtle adjustments from year to year. Now I can totally understand why most of my friends struggle to learn, and often don't want to play me in 2K.

im a football (yes, football) fan and i still enjoyed the quick look i just didnt take it seriously, especially since i know a lot of people who don't care about the sport in real life. personally, this quick look only got me hoping that the GB crew will do a fifa QL as well

@df said:

Then I don't think they should be doing this QL just to make fun of sport game?

That's exactly why I think they should do them. If they were serious sports guys I'd have no interest in watching them play a sports game. There are plenty of other places you can get that content. Giant Bomb is not an all encompassing place for the specific content you desire.

@CaLe said:

@df said:

Then I don't think they should be doing this QL just to make fun of sport game?

That's exactly why I think they should do them. If they were serious sports guys I'd have no interest in watching them play a sports game. There are plenty of other places you can get that content. Giant Bomb is not an all encompassing place for the specific content you desire.

I agree that there's a charm to their willful cluelessness that can't be duplicated (I watch them all if only to enjoy folks bumbling around games that seem second nature to me even if I don't play them myself), but if you follow sports games at all (really, games journalism in general) then you know that GiantBomb's QuickLooks (even moreso than reviews) can be one of the most honest gaming experiences in the business. Really the only guy I look to more is Tom Bissell, if only because he's an industry outsider who got into writing thoughtfully about mainstream games only because he was a writer who got so addicted to drugs the only way he could make sense of his life was to turn on an XBox. So as a long, long time sports gamer, it's a little disappointing when you see a site giving what seems like very forthright looks into more "gamer" games that they don't have people around who can play these sports games and say "this is new, this is new, this is how you do this, this is how you do that, they got rid of this, they got rid of that, this is stupid because older versions made it easier, this is stupid because older versions made it harder, this is great because I didn't think it was possible" and so on. Instead it's a constant barrage of "WHY THE FUCK ISN'T THIS JAM OR BLITZ?"

Even OperationSports can't dig into the nuts and bolts of a game with honestly until the game releases, and even then you can see an extreme disconnect between the writers who know the developers and like them versus the players who just want a better game. Being a sports gamer is a very frustrating existence and it'd be nice to have a place like GiantBomb applying it's educated honesty to that sphere, rather than every game receiving 8s across the board and a better luck next year.

The entire purpose of them running the site the way they do is so that the audience can have a much better understanding of each of their individual tastes and interests in games. We know that none of them (other than Alex) are remotely interested in playing authentic sports games...so when they do a Quick Look for them, if you actually have any interest in the game they are demoing, any reasonable person will simply say "These guys hate sports games, I'll keep that in mind when listening to their comments on them. They might not dig it, but it could still be right for me."

As for the rest of us, watching two gleefully ignorant people jump into a sports games, immediately turn everything to shitty weather and no fouls, and goof off for awhile is very entertaining, which is exactly what I'm looking for out of those videos.

@Nodima said:

Even OperationSports can't dig into the nuts and bolts of a game with honestly until the game releases, and even then you can see an extreme disconnect between the writers who know the developers and like them versus the players who just want a better game. Being a sports gamer is a very frustrating existence and it'd be nice to have a place like GiantBomb applying it's educated honesty to that sphere, rather than every game receiving 8s across the board and a better luck next year.

I'm not a sports game fan (although, I love playing actual sports), but I can understand why someone might be bummed their favorite gaming website not having the type of people around who are into those games. But, given that we know they aren't into them, people shouldn't expect them to act like they are. Also, to be fair, Giant Bomb isn't giving "every game an 8 and moving on." If they even choose to review a sports game at all, it's almost always done by Alex, who actually give a shit most of the time.

PES fucking sucks though.

As much as Anti-EA fanboys hate it, FIFA is the definitive soccer series and has been for the past few years.

I'm not a sports game fan (although, I love playing actual sports), but I can understand why someone might be bummed their favorite gaming website not having the type of people around who are into those games. But, given that we know they aren't into them, people shouldn't expect them to act like they are. Also, to be fair, Giant Bomb isn't giving "every game an 8 and moving on." If they even choose to review a sports game at all, it's almost always done by Alex, who actually give a shit most of the time.

I don't expect them to give a shit at all, and I love GB's irreverent attitude towards plenty of games. Like I said in that post (or maybe slightly elsewhere) it was refreshing to see them show how hard it is to understand NBA 2K13 if you haven't been playing for years like I have (and even then, those new right stick controls? Goddamn!). It's great for entertainment, there's just a slight logical leap I have to make from "OK, these guys love this game because it's a well-done recreation of this experience with tons of features for anyone that's a fan of X or X, but this sports game is a sports game so fuck let's make fun of it" that's jarring. I mean imagine a gaming site that ran videos of people playing Half-Life 2 or Halo 3 (two games I've never played due to running Apples and Nintendos/Playstations since my inception) and claiming it was a chore. I'd laugh at that too, but it'd also be as rare as clean energy. I was just sort of bummed a few months back when I discovered GB had such a passion for "regular" games yet no interest in loving sports gaming in the same way.

Dude, come on. It's soccer. Nobody in the states gives a shit about soccer, and you really can't expect them to. It's like expecting the French to be really into football or something.

@Cincaid said:

I never understood people who get personally insulted whenever they do a funny / misinformed Quick Look.

Not only that but they just have to take everything seriously even when the GB dudes are clearly not. There's a reason why Jeff became a professional footballsman for the Madden QL.

@MikkaQ said:

Dude, come on. It's soccer. Nobody in the states gives a shit about soccer, and you really can't expect them to. It's like expecting the French to be really into football or something.

On a national scale, no. But local fans care more (and, via arena size, are allowed to care more) than more popular leagues like the NBA. Check this Out:

Bringing in 66,000 was a one-off – the Sounders average around 42,000 – but it’s worth noting MLS draws more fans per game than the NBA or the NHL. That’s impressive for the now teenage league, but it is no benchmark for mainstream penetration. The penetration that matters is in television. There, MLS lags well behind other domestic leagues and even other brands of soccer.

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/10/08/mls-drawing-66452-in-seattle-is-great-but-tv-ratings-remain-abysmal/

TV is still a golden goose for American soccer, but between the NFL's ongoing legal issues (resulting in wary parents) and NBA's inevitable physical limitations (the Allen Iversons and Spud Webbs of the world are increasingly rare) soccer will one day prove to be just as major an American sport as the rest of them, if not the most durable of them all given its relative lack of restrictions other than athletic ability and understanding of the game. I'm not a soccer apologist at all, I only watch the World Cup, but it's hard to argue against its increasing popularity on the homefront, especially if you have relatives with kids who want to play or kids yourself.

Quick Looks are so much better when they're for entertainment and not some mini-review. But I guess that's a topic for another thread going on right now.

@Nodima said:

I don't expect them to give a shit at all, and I love GB's irreverent attitude towards plenty of games. Like I said in that post (or maybe slightly elsewhere) it was refreshing to see them show how hard it is to understand NBA 2K13 if you haven't been playing for years like I have (and even then, those new right stick controls? Goddamn!). It's great for entertainment, there's just a slight logical leap I have to make from "OK, these guys love this game because it's a well-done recreation of this experience with tons of features for anyone that's a fan of X or X, but this sports game is a sports game so fuck let's make fun of it" that's jarring. I mean imagine a gaming site that ran videos of people playing Half-Life 2 or Halo 3 (two games I've never played due to running Apples and Nintendos/Playstations since my inception) and claiming it was a chore. I'd laugh at that too, but it'd also be as rare as clean energy. I was just sort of bummed a few months back when I discovered GB had such a passion for "regular" games yet no interest in loving sports gaming in the same way.

Sports games really are a totally different beast though (authentic ones at least). The enjoyment someone has for them is most of the time directly effected by how much that person likes that sport in real life, since they are trying to be as realistic as possible. They are almost more simulations than games.

Half-Life 2 and Halo 3, per your examples, are fantasy worlds with different intentions, so the expectation are different. Sticking with first person shooters, I think hardcore realistic military simulations would be a better comparison. Those types of games cater more to people who have an interest in real world weapons/tactics, so someone who just wants to play some video games might not find them as attractive.

I think when it comes down to it, most of the guys at Giant Bomb just aren't into simulation type games (with the beautiful exception of Flight Club, of course). For instance, I don't think any of us should expect anything other than jokes and dismissive comments during the upcoming Farming Simulator 2013 quick look. I can understand and appreciate your disappointment (as I expect someone who is super into farming will probably be disappointed in the Farming quick look), I'm just glad you aren't jumping on the train like a lot of other people and saying they should have been way more serious about a game they had absolutely no interest in.

@bushpusherr said:

@Nodima said:

I don't expect them to give a shit at all, and I love GB's irreverent attitude towards plenty of games. Like I said in that post (or maybe slightly elsewhere) it was refreshing to see them show how hard it is to understand NBA 2K13 if you haven't been playing for years like I have (and even then, those new right stick controls? Goddamn!). It's great for entertainment, there's just a slight logical leap I have to make from "OK, these guys love this game because it's a well-done recreation of this experience with tons of features for anyone that's a fan of X or X, but this sports game is a sports game so fuck let's make fun of it" that's jarring. I mean imagine a gaming site that ran videos of people playing Half-Life 2 or Halo 3 (two games I've never played due to running Apples and Nintendos/Playstations since my inception) and claiming it was a chore. I'd laugh at that too, but it'd also be as rare as clean energy. I was just sort of bummed a few months back when I discovered GB had such a passion for "regular" games yet no interest in loving sports gaming in the same way.

Sports games really are a totally different beast though (authentic ones at least). The enjoyment someone has for them is most of the time directly effected by how much that person likes that sport in real life, since they are trying to be as realistic as possible. They are almost more simulations than games.

Half-Life 2 and Halo 3, per your examples, are fantasy worlds with different intentions, so the expectation are different. Sticking with first person shooters, I think hardcore realistic military simulations would be a better comparison. Those types of games cater more to people who have an interest in real world weapons/tactics, so someone who just wants to play some video games might not find them as attractive.

I think when it comes down to it, most of the guys at Giant Bomb just aren't into simulation type games (with the beautiful exception of Flight Club, of course). For instance, I don't think any of us should expect anything other than jokes and dismissive comments during the upcoming Farming Simulator 2013 quick look. I can understand and appreciate your disappointment (as I expect someone who is super into farming will probably be disappointed in the Farming quick look), I'm just glad you aren't jumping on the train like a lot of other people and saying they should have been way more serious about a game they had absolutely no interest in.

Yea, no expectation for that. It would just be nice to see GiantBomb or (ohno!) some other site with a bigger budget eventually just say screw it and talk about sports games as they actually are. Because there is a LARGE grouping of sports gamers that play other games, see the advancements made in those genres, and then play these sports games and wonder why they feel so iterative compared to, say, their 2005 versions (to me, this was when all sports games hit their peaks: 2K beat Live, EA beat 2K in Hockey, EA beat 2K in baseball, Madden and 2K were equals, plus all the arcade derivatives Jeff would obviously love today) but instead we just get "yea, this is sports".

I bought NCAA and Madden for the first time since the '08 (2007) releases this year, enjoyed NCAA and hated Madden. Nothing that I read out there other than user reports confirmed that, and for some reason I was so eager to play football that I bought into both (I REALLY should have grabbed NCAA and called it quits, Madden is a disaster for offline NFL fans). I feel like a sports game fan given the leeway of a Giantbomb office could have expressed this view, especially to people like me who bought both these games months after release just because it had been five years and I missed video footie. Instead, their videos were just hilarious (not a qualitative statement, just a statement) and I missed how this game (Madden) could suck if I actually wanted to enjoy football.

@Nodima: I realize that more serious videos are usually out of the question because Alex is across the country, but do his reviews at least scratch that itch for you?

People need to really chill out about this QL. Yes, I understand how much soccer means to a lot of you, but a lot of people also really care a lot about football and basketball. Even though I could pick apart every little bit of the coverage of Madden, I don't. Or try not to. I just enjoy them for what they are. They're Quick Looks for entertainment, not information.

A lot of the basic information Jeff and Vinny might have about football comes from them being American. It's a huge part of our culture. It's hard to avoid. While soccer is all too easy to avoid.

They shoild do a fifa quick look that way they could compare it to pes to their understandind of soccer lol

"I think my problem also raise from fact that QL now serves as an introduction to game (instead of video review)"

Say it with me, folks: Quick Looks are not reviews.

Now, people in the back: Quick Looks are not reviews.

Just the Canadians: Quick Looks are not reviews.

And the Venezuelans: Quick Looks are not reviews.

EVERYBODY!: Quick Looks are not reviews.

Well done, everyone! Meet back in twenty minutes when somebody else mistakes Quick Looks for reviews.

@bushpusherr said:

@Nodima: I realize that more serious videos are usually out of the question because Alex is across the country, but do his reviews at least scratch that itch for you?

No, but few sports game reviews do these days, or reviews in general. I admit that I'm jaded but I'm never prepared to admit that's totally the case so much that I notice things that are just not what they used to be, and are covered up by graphics and random gameplay options that might be removed in the next few years (see: Madden's QB viewing cone for passes, for just one example). Sports gaming VERY quickly went from a situation where things kept getting better (its inception until roughly 2005/2006) until all it took was graphics and "animations", the second of which works on some but is understood by others as perhaps random interactions that are not obvious or important to the gameplay. Sports game reviews (and this is just me speaking from the 2K basketball perspective, which again, deserves its respect in the industry) seem to skim over the actual differences with each year and just talk about what anyone following these games could know from reading the developers' diaries and watching their hype videos.

Perhaps part of the reason I'm so uninterested in trying other games is that I love basketball, and by extension basketball games, so much that the failure of the press to elucidate these flaws and hold developers accountable seems shameful. NBA 2K12 (too early to judge 2K13 yet) may have been a 9.5 overall or whatever on most sites, but to basketball gamers it was just a more complicated and flawed take on NBA 2K9; it's one thing for a hater to say that, but another for someone who'll play 600 games online and three season in Association simply because it's basketball. So when these sites praise NBA 2K for continually adding more complications onto a game that was once more enjoyable (not due to controls, but due to A.I., modes, online play, etc.) without addressing these things (for example, if I were writing about Madden knowing I couldn't upload my NCAA draft classes, essentially a feature adopted by Mass Effect, into the game because of a design decision, I'd have trashed that portion of it) it becomes very frustrating as a sports gamer. Because these are the only franchises we have, and I wish people paid to talk about them would be honest in their written word and video reviews rather than say "more of the same, so you like it, right?" because neither is right. It's both different, and wrong (or better). And what I was saying before is even sports-dedicated game site like OperationSports don't seem to acknowledge these flaws, same as sites rarely acknowledge regular games are flawed (see RE6's Meta score of +70 despite being vehemently criticized).

Yeah sounded like none of them came in playing a lick of PES and NBA 2k13. You know what, I think that's how I like my sports quick looks. Obviously those people who have played these games in the past and are a fan of the sport will buy the game. They would probably do a better job QL if it was a new series on a new sport, LIKE CURLING!!!

PES was easily the funniest QL they've done in ages. My favourite part was when the Italian Space Program attempted to land a ball on the moon using an open goal as a launch pad.

The PES QL has been made purely for comedic purposes, and nothing else.

@df: I actually really enjoyed the quick look, even beyond it being really hilarious. I was impressed at how easily they were able to figure the game out a bit and their play drastically improved over time, which was heartening for a non-sports game player who thinks the game (or at least the kind of game) looked interesting. I might go pick either it or FIFA up now because of the quick look. Expecting them to be good at the game or approach it in any way other than "I have no idea what I am doing, how is this game going to be for me?" is silly, to be perfectly frank. If you want an educated look, go elsewhere. I really like the sports quick looks with Vinny and Jeff, because I am kind of in the same boat as them: I've shunned modern sports games. But I've been slowly finding the games more appealing based on watching the various quick looks they have done.

@ImHungry said:

As somebody who does actually like football and football games, the only issue I really had was that the goal scoring madness that would have ensued from their piss poor defense had they actually known how to shoot(not slamming the shot button full force) would have been way more entertaining.

Otherwise, their ignorance and general disdain for football made for some pretty good watching.

So were they just holding the button too long? I seem to remember them barely holding and even tapping, and the shots still popped up way too high. I only ask because I'm thinking about picking the game up just to try at a sports game.

@Nodima said:

@MikkaQ said:

Dude, come on. It's soccer. Nobody in the states gives a shit about soccer, and you really can't expect them to. It's like expecting the French to be really into football or something.

On a national scale, no. But local fans care more (and, via arena size, are allowed to care more) than more popular leagues like the NBA. Check this Out:

Bringing in 66,000 was a one-off – the Sounders average around 42,000 – but it’s worth noting MLS draws more fans per game than the NBA or the NHL. That’s impressive for the now teenage league, but it is no benchmark for mainstream penetration. The penetration that matters is in television. There, MLS lags well behind other domestic leagues and even other brands of soccer.

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/10/08/mls-drawing-66452-in-seattle-is-great-but-tv-ratings-remain-abysmal/

TV is still a golden goose for American soccer, but between the NFL's ongoing legal issues (resulting in wary parents) and NBA's inevitable physical limitations (the Allen Iversons and Spud Webbs of the world are increasingly rare) soccer will one day prove to be just as major an American sport as the rest of them, if not the most durable of them all given its relative lack of restrictions other than athletic ability and understanding of the game. I'm not a soccer apologist at all, I only watch the World Cup, but it's hard to argue against its increasing popularity on the homefront, especially if you have relatives with kids who want to play or kids yourself.

The MLS will never be as popular as the NBA or NHL because its a mostly a shitty product. People want to see the best of the best, not "the best we could manage." And those numbers are complete bullshit. Of course the league with the least amount of games and tickets that cost next to nothing is going to have "good" numbers. It has nothing to do with caring more.

And as for the Sounders, the moment Seatle gets a new NBA team, Sounders attendance will drop off considerably.

Soccer is only starting to gain popularity here because ESPN is airing the World Cup and Premier League. That Landon Donovan goal in the last World Cup? That did more for soccer in the US than the MLS ever did. The absolutely ridiculous ending to the last Premier League season, same thing. Unless something miraculous happens and the MLS suddenly starts attracting elite players, it will never be any better than fifth place.

They don't give a shit about football, so I don't see why they should give a shit about video game football. It wasn't as entertaining as the FIFA quick look, since Jeff was less on a roll. But I did chuckle when Jeff said "I guess England is the only one with good teams in it" and when Vinny was on offside and none of them had a fucking idea what happened.

@Manhattan_Project: I always found the lackluster football of the US amusing, since North America has the potential, like in every other sport, to dominate if the league was slightly better. They are consistently decent during the World Cup and the fact that they won with Spain during the 2009 Confederations Cup was also not some blunder by Del Bosque's team.

But yeah, I don't really see that happening. Football is absolutely dominated by European leagues - to grow, MLS would have to draw the audiences from across the ocean and I don't see a way for that to happen.

Aside from the sports knowledge, all I can say is that the GB crew really put a spotlight on how crappy the main menus are for these sports games. How can anyone new to the sport/game/genre hope to navigate that mess?

@Ghostiet said:

They don't give a shit about football, so I don't see why they should give a shit about video game football. It wasn't as entertaining as the FIFA quick look, since Jeff was less on a roll. But I did chuckle when Jeff said "I guess England is the only one with good teams in it" and when Vinny was on offside and none of them had a fucking idea what happened.

@Manhattan_Project: I always found the lackluster football of the US amusing, since North America has the potential, like in every other sport, to dominate if the league was slightly better. They are consistently decent during the World Cup and the fact that they won with Spain during the 2009 Confederations Cup was also not some blunder by Del Bosque's team.

But yeah, I don't really see that happening. Football is absolutely dominated by European leagues - to grow, MLS would have to draw the audiences from across the ocean and I don't see a way for that to happen.

The main problem is that if you're a great athlete in the U.S.you will go for any sport other than soccer because they can offer more popularity and money than the MLS can. So most of our soccer athletes tend to be guys that couldn't make it in those other sports. Its why people were so excited for Jozy Altidore. He's is built like an NFL player but was playing soccer. Fuck you Jozy, FUCK YOU. I WANTED TO BELIEVE...

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@Cincaid said:

I never understood people who get personally insulted whenever they do a funny / misinformed Quick Look.

Not only that but they just have to take everything seriously even when the GB dudes are clearly not. There's a reason why Jeff became a professional footballsman for the Madden QL.

This is exactly how I feel.

I don't know why people care? I don't understand how you can be insulted by what someone else thinks of a game or if they are playing it properly.

Nothing could matter less.

If you don't give a damn about a game (or the concept behind it), then the QL shouldn't exists; or else you are suggesting this QL has nothing to do with game, just yet another clever rant, like those on youtube channels.

And to be honest, there are more than enough of those videos on the Internet.

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Now that I think of it, even recent Kinect QLs are more "in depth" and "balanced" than the PES QL, which is kinda sad.

I don't regret supporting GB since it's inception, but I do start to wonder what QL has evolved into.

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No offense to anyone enjoys the PES QL, just want to voice my opinion on this matter.

@df said:

If you don't give a damn about a game (or the concept behind it), then the QL shouldn't exists; or else you are suggesting this QL has nothing to do with game, just yet another clever rant, like those on youtube channels.

Or people like to see these guys be funny. you really do seem to be taking this way to personally. They don't like a game that you do and just wanted to voice their opinion on this matter. . Get over it. QL about games they don't like and take the piss out of are nothing new

Now that I think of it, even recent Kinect QLs are more "in depth" and "balanced" than the PES QL, which is kinda sad.

now you're just being silly.

I never thought of Quick Looks as anything over than a normally funny introduction to a game. I've watched a lot of the QL's I've never thought they were intended to be a review and I don't think the guys have ever said anything that would lead to that.