#1 Edited by Minifig (136 posts) -

Screw EA.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/01/sim-city-beta-eula-includes-company-wide-ban-for-unreported-bugs/

TL;DR?

"If you know about a Bug or have heard about a Bug and fail to report the Bug to EA, we reserve the right to treat you no differently from someone who abuses the Bug. You acknowledge that EA reserve the right to lock anyone caught abusing a Bug out of all EA products."

This needs to be illegal. They're using FREE testers, to test a game... and they can ban people from games THEY paid for.

#2 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -

Bit extreme, but beta is a thing to work out bugs and get feedback on mechanics and such. Not a free demo as it has slowly become the expectation.

#3 Edited by Lukeweizer (2588 posts) -

I think they're talking about exploits, not so much "bugs".

#4 Posted by KaneRobot (1400 posts) -

Will be interesting to see if they actually do this. I'd love to see the shitstorm that would commence if EA accused someone of "hearing about a bug" and banning them from all their games.

I don't buy EA games anymore so I can't double-not buy them because of this, but this has the potential to be pretty fucked up.

#5 Posted by Brodehouse (9524 posts) -

Then don't agree to beta test a game. OH WAIT THAT SOUNDS LIKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

#6 Posted by XChairmanDrekX (279 posts) -

Man, that is complete BS, I'd like to see anyone attempt to defend this.

#7 Posted by Animasta (14643 posts) -

@XChairmanDrekX said:

Man, that is complete BS, I'd like to see anyone attempt to defend this.

not defending it necessarily, but how would they know if you don't report it? people are making it out to be a lot scarier than ti actually is

#8 Posted by Gilbert64 (59 posts) -

So if you deliberately withhold reporting a bug to then exploit it when the game lunches you can get your account banned? See nothing wrong with that .. oh wait this is EA? Sorry let the circlejerk commence. 

#9 Posted by Poppduder (460 posts) -
@KaneRobot said:

...

I don't buy EA games anymore so I can't double-not buy them ...

True, but it'd be pretty sweet if you could.
#10 Posted by familyphotoshoot (652 posts) -

@Poppduder said:

@KaneRobot said:

...

I don't buy EA games anymore so I can't double-not buy them ...

True, but it'd be pretty sweet if you could.

You could always pirate them out of spite. I do that sometimes.

#11 Posted by SomeJerk (3130 posts) -

Outlawing re-tracing steps and replicating the bug explains the quality of EA titles of the last 4-5 years really.

#12 Edited by Minifig (136 posts) -

@Brodehouse: Personal responsibility ... ?

You're asking people who signed up to beta test, a free beta, who aren't getting paid, to have a responsibility, about testing something, that they're playing for free?. And now, you're threatening these people who signed up to beta test, a free beta, who aren't getting paid, that if they fail to report bugs, that they could lose access to all of their games they've paid for in the past?

What kind of justification is that?

----

You do realize, as someone who does beta testing and actually gets paid for it, I don't always report the bugs I find because I need to discuss things with the developer before confirming they're bugs?

#13 Edited by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

I'd be embarrassed for them if they hadn't already burned every iota of goodwill from their consumers.

@familyphotoshoot said:

@Poppduder said:

@KaneRobot said:

...

I don't buy EA games anymore so I can't double-not buy them ...

True, but it'd be pretty sweet if you could.

You could always pirate them out of spite. I do that sometimes.

Or steal physical copies. They actually lose money from that when you factor in the cost of printing the media.

#14 Edited by Jeust (10454 posts) -

@Gilbert64 said:

So if you deliberately withhold reporting a bug to then exploit it when the game lunches you can get your account banned? See nothing wrong with that .. oh wait this is EA? Sorry let the circlejerk commence.

Thing is the words on the agreement are vage enough to apply to every bug, which makes the application of the policy pretty much to their own musings. So yeah it is pretty bad.

#15 Posted by Sammo21 (3204 posts) -

@Minifig:

Maybe that will teach people to not use a beta as a demo.

#16 Posted by Minifig (136 posts) -

@Sammo21 said:

@Minifig:

Maybe that will teach people to not use a beta as a demo.

So, you're telling me, if you sign up for a beta, get access to it, and don't play it, I have full rights, because you didn't report any bugs, I can ban you from all your games?

What?!

#17 Posted by believer258 (11570 posts) -
@Minifig

@Brodehouse: Personal responsibility ... ?

You're asking people who signed up to beta test, a free beta, who aren't getting paid, to have a responsibility, about testing something, that they're playing for free?. And now, you're threatening these people who signed up to beta test, a free beta, who aren't getting paid, that if they fail to report bugs, that they could lose access to all of their games they've paid for in the past?

What kind of justification is that?

----

You do realize, as someone who does beta testing and actually gets paid for it, I don't always report the bugs I find because I need to discuss things with the developer before confirming they're bugs?

But when you agree to beta test a game, you agree that you'll report any bugs? That's the point?
EA's thing is a bit dirty, yes, but they're not wrong. It ain't a free demo, it's cheaper mass testing so they can (hopefully) put out a better product.
#18 Posted by Sammo21 (3204 posts) -

@Minifig:

If you downloaded it and didn't play it then you aren't aware of the bugs. Right?

"If you know about a Bug or have heard about a Bug and fail to report the Bug to EA"

#19 Posted by GaspoweR (2755 posts) -

The part of using free testers has been around for some time. Microsoft has done that with their operating systems in the past. The banning part though is pretty reprehensible. I think it's because that they can't track down specific people who are abusing the bug or probably laziness that is making them add that part to the EULA.

#20 Posted by Minifig (136 posts) -

@Sammo21 said:

@Minifig:

If you downloaded it and didn't play it then you aren't aware of the bugs. Right?

"If you know about a Bug or have heard about a Bug and fail to report the Bug to EA"

Correct, but, EA will track you downloaded it.

So, by all means. You downloaded it. You're playing it. You're failing to report bugs. You're banned from your games.

See the logic loop there?

This is a poorly worded EULA.

#21 Posted by RecSpec (3754 posts) -

Worded a little extreme, but yeah, a beta is a beta. That's why I don't bother with many anymore. I want to play a game, not play a game, try to break it, then log in to their forum to try to explain in excruciating detail what happened.

#22 Posted by Brodehouse (9524 posts) -
@Minifig I'm asking people who are given a game along with a contract that outlines the rules for accessing it to abide by a contract they agreed to. I know, it's crazy, and saying that they are fully within their rights to not access the game and thus not agree to those terms is JUST TOO CRAZY.

You're also adding and changing what you need to make this rule extreme enough to garner traction, you're making disingenuous assertions intentionally. Lets focus on facts than your emotional rhetoric.

This rule provides a legal platform for EA provided it can gather the evidence that a party a) beta tested a game, b) discovered a bug, c) did not report it, and d) exploited it upon release. It's a very difficult case to prove without evidence, but with evidence it constitutes breach of contract. How to gather this evidence? Look through public message forums for the beta tester in question directly telling others about the exploit and how to recreate it, the way that exploits become popularized. This rule is not 'failure to catch a bug' as you drolly abuse logic, it's 'failure to report a bug during beta, and then delierately using that knowledge to proliferate an exploit beyond the beta period'.

And you know what, if you don't think you can control yourself from following that rule, then you should take the responsibility to avoid the beta.
#23 Posted by iAmJohn (6107 posts) -

There's, like, literally no way for them to prove this at all.

#24 Posted by Willtron (243 posts) -

Poorly-worded EULA + EA's track record + uppity motherfuckers (read: the internet) = possible overreaction.

EA deserves a lot of its flack, but how about, instead of condemning them from the out set, you get some information about this, and see what EA really means. If they plan to do what you think they'll do, I'll gladly be on the front lines calling EA out on its bullshit. Until we actually learn what this means, don't jump to conclusions.

#25 Posted by Istealdreams (148 posts) -

UPDATE (1/22/13): EA has updated the EULA language and issued the following statement: "“The clause in the EA Beta Agreement for the SimCity beta was intended to prohibit players from using known exploits to their advantage. However, the language as included is too broad. EA has never taken away access to a player’s games for failing to report a bug. We are now updating the Beta Agreement to remove this point.”"

#26 Posted by Azteck (7450 posts) -

What if you just didn't find any bugs? I've taken part in a lot of betas and rarely find any bugs that aren't already advertised by the company or others.

#27 Posted by Willtron (243 posts) -

@Istealdreams said:

UPDATE (1/22/13): EA has updated the EULA language and issued the following statement: "“The clause in the EA Beta Agreement for the SimCity beta was intended to prohibit players from using known exploits to their advantage. However, the language as included is too broad. EA has never taken away access to a player’s games for failing to report a bug. We are now updating the Beta Agreement to remove this point.”"

And there you go.

#28 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@Minifig said:

@Sammo21 said:

@Minifig:

Maybe that will teach people to not use a beta as a demo.

So, you're telling me, if you sign up for a beta, get access to it, and don't play it, I have full rights, because you didn't report any bugs, I can ban you from all your games?

What?!

That is totally ignoring the language used. It clearly states if you encounter a bug and do not report it, you're at fault.

They have more information than just "dude downloaded the game."

How do you think that people who abused certain exploits that were local to their computer to get more of the golden keys or whatever in Borderlands 2 were found out?

Sorry, but it's a beta. It's clearly stated. If you don't want that risk? Don't do it. Easy peasy. This is probably mostly a scare tactic, but you are supposed to be bughunting. You have no "rights" to the beta access, and why should they let you play their game for free?

@Minifig said:

@Sammo21 said:

@Minifig:

If you downloaded it and didn't play it then you aren't aware of the bugs. Right?

"If you know about a Bug or have heard about a Bug and fail to report the Bug to EA"

Correct, but, EA will track you downloaded it.

So, by all means. You downloaded it. You're playing it. You're failing to report bugs. You're banned from your games.

See the logic loop there?

This is a poorly worded EULA.

This is a huge, huge assumption and oversimplification, and far more daft than the wording of the EULA. It's pretty fucking clear, even if it is dumb and needless.

#29 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

Someone got fired for that one.

#30 Posted by KaneRobot (1400 posts) -

@Willtron said:

@Istealdreams said:

UPDATE (1/22/13): EA has updated the EULA language and issued the following statement: "“The clause in the EA Beta Agreement for the SimCity beta was intended to prohibit players from using known exploits to their advantage. However, the language as included is too broad. EA has never taken away access to a player’s games for failing to report a bug. We are now updating the Beta Agreement to remove this point.”"

And there you go.

WHY MUST THEY RUIN THE FUN

#31 Posted by Gamer_152 (14051 posts) -

I imagine this is just them legally covering their asses and that they won't actually try this, but that still doesn't make it okay. I know it's not exactly original to criticise EA, but sweet lord, it's kind of amazing how openly they seem to disrespect their loyal customers a lot of the time.

Moderator
#32 Posted by videogamesarenotart (121 posts) -

signing up for betas with no intention to test bugs or be part of the beta testing process? I would hope you do get banned from EA products.

#33 Posted by S0ndor (2715 posts) -

As if they would ever do that.

#34 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

Scenerio 1: EA Bans everyone who did not report a single bug.

Scenerio 2: EA looks at all the data of every single user, and Bans specific people who did not report bugs they encountered.

Scenario 3: EA used that as a way to say, cheat all you want now, in this buggy game, but if you don't report this bug, and use this knowledge after release, you will be banned.