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#51 Posted by mellotronrules (1172 posts) -

the ps4 will not have controllers.

#52 Edited by ajamafalous (11845 posts) -

The PS4 will be invisible. It was onstage the whole time.

#53 Posted by TheHBK (5463 posts) -

@salad10203 said:

@trafalgarlaw: Well in that case, they are lying. Don't get me wrong, I am pumped for PS4, but having 8 GB of GDDR5 would cost thousands of dollars alone.

Yes because we all know that the 2 GB of GDDR5 Ram in a graphics card makes up 90% of the cost.

#54 Posted by _Chad (963 posts) -

PS4 is a stick and a hula hoop.

#55 Edited by TurboMan (7396 posts) -

Who to believe: The guy that is head of hardware at Playstation and gets paid lots of money to be researching and developing hardware for the past five years to release a new Playstation for a massive audience worldwide, or somebody that makes a three sentence post on a forum.

#56 Posted by big_jon (5709 posts) -

I hear it's DDR6.

#57 Edited by Fattony12000 (7036 posts) -

Sony's PS4 RAM could be created through custom fabrication separate from the usual manufacture process that all of our PC RAM comes from. Just as their Cell Broadband Engine Architecture was custom made for the PS3, except this time they are going with a slightly more 'off the shelf' CPU and GPU, and getting ahead of the curve with RAM, identifying that aspect as the part of the console that would really benefit from sick GDDR5.

I really hope it's 100% GDDR5, that would be so sexy for my face.

From the GDDR5 wiki:

On June 25, 2008, AMD became the first company to ship products using GDDR5 memory with its Radeon HD 4870 video card series, incorporating Qimonda's 512 Mbit memory modules at 3.6 Gbit/s bandwidth.

So there has been some time since GDDR5 was a thing that was used in other things.

From the Xbox 360 wiki:

The console features 512 MB of GDDR3 RAM clocked at 700 MHz with an effective transmission rate of 1.4 GHz on a 128-bit bus. The memory is shared by the CPU and the GPU via the unified memory architecture.

And that was inside a console that came out in 2005, so, you know, the cold relentless march of progress of human technology and stuff.

#58 Posted by zenmastah (873 posts) -

Its really funny that even on that amount of RAM there were still pop-ins on the KZ demo.

I mean really, cant we get rid of the pop-ins already?

#59 Posted by TruthTellah (8517 posts) -

Its really funny that even on that amount of RAM there were still pop-ins on the KZ demo.

I mean really, cant we get rid of the pop-ins already?

To be fair, that's an unfinished game demo. So, it may not be representative of other final products.

#60 Posted by granderojo (1778 posts) -

I hope this means Sony is making bets that GDDR is going to get really cheap in the next few years, which would be super fucking awesome. They know more about hardware trends than I do so yeah.

#61 Posted by zenmastah (873 posts) -

@truthtellah:

Hope so, if the draw distances wont get better going in to next gen im going to be really disapointed.

#62 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@sooty said:

I can't help but feel this is going to cost $500.

And you'll get if for free with a dataplan upgrade that enables all that high tech streaming shennanigans. I know I will. I'm sitting on a 60 dollar a month dataplan, and it's worth every penny. If I'm going to upgrade to a 100$ a month dataplan and get a PS4 for free? I might just do that. Bandwidth is sexy.

#63 Posted by TruthTellah (8517 posts) -

@truthtellah:

Hope so, if the draw distances wont get better going in to next gen im going to be really disapointed.

Considering some of the advancements in tools like the Unreal Engine 4, draw distances should be rather improved. Or, at least, developers could make that priority and pretty easily have vast distances viewable with no issue. It's possible on PC hardware that's lower than the PS4's specs; so, there's a decent chance it will be a reality here. It is ultimately up to developers to decide on, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

#64 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@slashdance: I think they are "somewhat" lying. It would be akin to a Hybrid SSD+HDD drive. Its a unified 500gb hyrbid drive, but only 32gb is SSD. Its likely 8gb of DDR3 with some shared GDDR5.

I don't think you understand what unified means in this context. It means that it is shared by the CPU and GPU. Not that it is a mixture of multiple kinds of memory. It's architecture, ie how the system uses it. Not what it's made of. I believe the 360 also uses a Unified Memory architecture. Either that or the PS3, one of em does I'm pretty sure.

@branthog: DDR5 does exist, in the way that portable laser systems exist now in some military bunker. Ie, unfinished, unoptimized, and in a purely prototype form.

#65 Posted by matti00 (668 posts) -

This stuff is really important you guys

#66 Posted by Winternet (8004 posts) -

Guys, this G does not come before the D. Let's make a thread about it.

#67 Posted by mellotronrules (1172 posts) -

the ps4 will not make espresso.

#68 Posted by flippyandnod (369 posts) -

@turboman said:

Who to believe: The guy that is head of hardware at Playstation and gets paid lots of money to be researching and developing hardware for the past five years to release a new Playstation for a massive audience worldwide, or somebody that makes a three sentence post on a forum.

Exactly. We all know how Sony are big liars. So clearly Occam's Razor says we have to believe the internet denizen.

#69 Edited by Example1013 (4834 posts) -

@zenmastah said:

@truthtellah:

Hope so, if the draw distances wont get better going in to next gen im going to be really disapointed.

Considering some of the advancements in tools like the Unreal Engine 4, draw distances should be rather improved. Or, at least, developers could make that priority and pretty easily have vast distances viewable with no issue. It's possible on PC hardware that's lower than the PS4's specs; so, there's a decent chance it will be a reality here. It is ultimately up to developers to decide on, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I'd bet a large sum of money that nothing shown so far has come close to the ceiling for what's allowed by the hardware. For all we know the pop-in in the KZ demo was just because it's a completely unoptimized, pre-alpha build, and they just quick-and-dirty put the necessary settings on to get a stable frame rate.

#70 Posted by LiquidPrince (15841 posts) -

Sorry, had to make this topic. People are going crazy claiming it will have 8gb od DDR5 ram and it simply isn't true. Their GPU will have DDR5 and maybe share some with the CPU with their unified die. Still very pumped for PS4, likely my first Sony console.

You can't have multiple speeds of RAM on the same system. All RAM needs to be the same speed. What are you talking about...?

#71 Posted by Gilsham (293 posts) -

with 8gb of GDD5 and only the x86 die I'm wondering how they are addressing all the memory - in 32bit OS if you don't load some of the addressing to the pci bus you can at max address 4gb of ram, I think that unified means that the cpu part of the chip addresses 4gb and then the gpu can get at the other 4gb + some of the cpu address space also the background processor will need some ram so maybe it will have 2 or so gb to store what it is downloading / patching

#72 Posted by teaoverlord (173 posts) -

@gilsham: According to the spec sheet, the PS4 has an x86-64 cpu.

#73 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@liquidprince said:

@salad10203 said:

Sorry, had to make this topic. People are going crazy claiming it will have 8gb od DDR5 ram and it simply isn't true. Their GPU will have DDR5 and maybe share some with the CPU with their unified die. Still very pumped for PS4, likely my first Sony console.

You can't have multiple speeds of RAM on the same system. All RAM needs to be the same speed. What are you talking about...?

I think he means either it will have DDR5 for the GPU (standard) and then the rest will be DDR3 or other, either that or he is saying it will have 8GB of DDR5 in total but not just system RAM, it will be combined and shared between the entire thing. (unlike a PC which will have separate system and VRAM)

#74 Posted by TooWalrus (13135 posts) -

@kidavenger said:

Did your uncle tell you this?

That made me laugh way too hard.

I know, same here. I'm not even sure why...

#76 Posted by BlatantNinja23 (930 posts) -

@salad10203: except that it does have 8GBs worth of unified GDDR5. No reason for them to lie about that.

#77 Edited by Shivoa (607 posts) -

Is this the chemtrails thread for the PS4? Can we have some more crazy tales of conspiracy and Sony lies?

I heard an even better one (on the same subject of RAM) on another forum. The conspiracy basically goes:

Because GDDR5 has a 32bit bus per chip, and the PS4 is confirmed to have a 256bit bus on the APU to the unified RAM pool then it must mean that it has (256/32=) 8 memory chips and that means for 8GB of RAM that they'd need 1GB per chip (normally chips are listed in bits and not Bytes so 8Gb chips) but no one makes chips of that capacity so OBVIOUSLY Sony are massive liars.

It's an awesome combination of technical details; incorrect supposition from not knowing what those numbers mean; and random desire for what Sony said to be completely false, no matter how much effort it takes.

#78 Posted by Poppduder (460 posts) -

@shagge said:

@pr1mus said:
@shagge said:

They're actually underselling the specs. It'll have 78,000 RAMs, a five billion yottabyte HDD, 50,000,000,000 Nvidia GTX Titans, 7 googolplexcore AMD CPUs, and blast processing. It'll also have a "Batman" button on the console that makes Batman pop out and give you a cookie. I know because my friend's dad is Kaz Hirai, and he gave me three PS4s. You can't see them, though.

All i care about is how many axis in the controller.

Fir.

... Fir... axis... like thems guys what made Civ... no? Nothing? Not even a titter? Hokay...

I laughed more at "titter"

#79 Edited by benspyda (2030 posts) -

The cpu and gpu are in one chip aren't they? So the the RAM would have to be shared, meaning it would all have to be the same type right? I'm no expert but GDDR5 8GB is what they are saying, so if it's not true then they are just trying to scare microsoft.

Edit: Also that Nvidia Titan has 6GB GDDR5. I'm sure Sony is trying to future proof its console and will definitely sell at a loss.

#80 Posted by Sergio (2047 posts) -

Someone doesn't understand what unified means in this case.

#81 Posted by RollingZeppelin (1914 posts) -

And the award for dumbest thread of the day goes to Salad!&^756 for "I don't understand console architecture but will comment on it as though I'm an expert".

Congrats Salad#&(X*$, well deserved.

#82 Posted by Mirado (990 posts) -

The OP is correct; DDR5 does not exist, and hence the PS4 will have none of it.

GDDR5, however, is not only a real thing but widespread, and as such the PS4 will have 8GBs of it. No material to the contrary exists.

#83 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7048 posts) -

What a silly, useless thread. It was entertaining to see it get as viciously ripped apart as it was, though. Good show.

#84 Posted by Zaccheus (1788 posts) -

Good show guys, chemtrails4life.

#85 Edited by cheapandtacky (127 posts) -

@flacracker: Where did you get the 86x?

If it's from the spec sheet which labelled the CPU as x86 then that is incorrect, the x86 refers to the architecture. X86 is used in PCs and modern Macs as opposed to Power pc in the XBOX 360 and older macs and Arm used in a lot of mobile devices.

#86 Posted by Flacracker (1594 posts) -

@cheapandtacky: My post was a joke about people who know nothing about hardware.

#87 Posted by Pr1mus (3806 posts) -
@shivoa said:

Is this the chemtrails thread for the PS4? Can we have some more crazy tales of conspiracy and Sony lies?

I heard an even better one (on the same subject of RAM) on another forum. The conspiracy basically goes:

Because GDDR5 has a 32bit bus per chip, and the PS4 is confirmed to have a 256bit bus on the APU to the unified RAM pool then it must mean that it has (256/32=) 8 memory chips and that means for 8GB of RAM that they'd need 1GB per chip (normally chips are listed in bits and not Bytes so 8Gb chips) but no one makes chips of that capacity so OBVIOUSLY Sony are massive liars.

It's an awesome combination of technical details; incorrect supposition from not knowing what those numbers mean; and random desire for what Sony said to be completely false, no matter how much effort it takes.

#88 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (190 posts) -

Sony confirmed it to be true.

#89 Posted by jgf (382 posts) -

@gilsham said:

with 8gb of GDD5 and only the x86 die I'm wondering how they are addressing all the memory - in 32bit OS if you don't load some of the addressing to the pci bus you can at max address 4gb of ram, I think that unified means that the cpu part of the chip addresses 4gb and then the gpu can get at the other 4gb + some of the cpu address space also the background processor will need some ram so maybe it will have 2 or so gb to store what it is downloading / patching

Quick call Mark Cerny! They made a big failure in the system design. The custom built cpu cannot access the custom built memory, because it is way to big. How come no one noticed of these hardware design noobs fooling around at sony research. Thankfully the internets got their back this time, before production started. Hope for the best they did not plan to use DOS on that system, the 640k limit is going to pose a serious problem. *sight*

#90 Edited by Dylabaloo (1549 posts) -

@zenmastah said:

Its really funny that even on that amount of RAM there were still pop-ins on the KZ demo.

I mean really, cant we get rid of the pop-ins already?

We're still at least 9 months away from next gen console releases, 9 MONTHS! Entire games can be made in that amount of time!

#91 Posted by spiceninja (3055 posts) -

I'm more shocked that you haven't owned a Sony console. Think of all the games you've missed. It's sad.

Online
#92 Posted by buft (3301 posts) -

I'm more shocked that you haven't owned a Sony console. Think of all the games you've missed. It's sad.

I did own one, it broke, i couldnt afford to replace it, its truly sad the amount of exclusives ive missed since then.

#93 Posted by alternate (2682 posts) -

If you mix it you negate many of the effects of the high speed memory bandwidth so it becomes pointless. It is all gddr5 if it is a unified pool. OP is talking bilge.

#94 Posted by zenmastah (873 posts) -

@dylabaloo:

Yeah, thats fair and all.

I just really, really hate shitty draw distances.

#95 Posted by Andorski (5189 posts) -

We can all figure this out by waiting for the console to launch.

#96 Posted by Gilsham (293 posts) -

@jgf said:

@gilsham said:

with 8gb of GDD5 and only the x86 die I'm wondering how they are addressing all the memory - in 32bit OS if you don't load some of the addressing to the pci bus you can at max address 4gb of ram, I think that unified means that the cpu part of the chip addresses 4gb and then the gpu can get at the other 4gb + some of the cpu address space also the background processor will need some ram so maybe it will have 2 or so gb to store what it is downloading / patching

Quick call Mark Cerny! They made a big failure in the system design. The custom built cpu cannot access the custom built memory, because it is way to big. How come no one noticed of these hardware design noobs fooling around at sony research. Thankfully the internets got their back this time, before production started. Hope for the best they did not plan to use DOS on that system, the 640k limit is going to pose a serious problem. *sight*

you probably don't realize the limit on memory addressing is on the instruction set (x86) which isn't custom so thanks for your side remark without any base.

But as @kp1a268 pointed out is has the x64 addon instruction set meaning it can get at all the memory (whichever sheet I read didn't have that on), I'm still interested if any of the ram will be assigned to the background processor

#97 Edited by troll93 (386 posts) -

@shagge said:

They're actually underselling the specs. It'll have 78,000 RAMs, a five billion yottabyte HDD, 50,000,000,000 Nvidia GTX Titans, 7 googolplexcore AMD CPUs, and blast processing. It'll also have a "Batman" button on the console that makes Batman pop out and give you a cookie. I know because my friend's dad is Kaz Hirai, and he gave me three PS4s. You can't see them, though.

So that's what the 'share' button is for, sharing Batman.

Also, this is the best thread that I have seen for a while.

#98 Posted by jgf (382 posts) -

@gilsham: Sorry for my harsh tone, I've been a bit upset, because this issued popped up so frequently after the press conference...

I'll just cite the first line of x86 from wikipedia "x86 denotes a family of instruction set architectures[2] based on the Intel 8086 CPU". Of course the sony guys will choose the right family member, the x86-64 and not the x86-32 instruction set, because as you pointed out, x86-32 does not make sense with 8gb. For a guy like Mr. Cerny this is so obvious, that he did not bother to explicitly mention the 64bit, because what else should they choose?

I'm certainly not the smartest guy when it comes to hardware, but at least I don't pretend I know more then sonys professional hardware guys. But somehow half of the internet - at least I felt this way - seemed to know better and complains about this non-existent issue. Thats why I've been so sarcastic. In hindsight I should have phrased it less offensive, sorry about that.

#99 Edited by SpudBug (633 posts) -

PS4 will have 8GB of ram in the same way the PS3 had 512mb of ram.

They share the ram between all system components. The PS3 only had 256mb of ram available to games/graphics and it caused some headaches in the generation.

Even if the OS takes up 4gb (unheard of) leaving 4gb for games and graphics to use is still an extremely high amount. I have played through numerous PC games at 1400p (compared to 1080p as on blu ray) with all effects on with my 2gb GTX 670 - so that tells you something about what's on offer with even 4gb of video memory, let alone 8.

#100 Edited by MariachiMacabre (7048 posts) -

Oh now I remember the OP. He's the guy that claimed that Obama lost the popular vote and only won because of the electoral college, despite how completely untrue that was and how easily his conspiracy theory was proven false by visiting any news site. Good times.