#151 Posted by MulletStorm (9 posts) -

Pretty sure everyone saw this coming.
Companies jobs are to make money, thinking they would give up a chance to make money is ridiculous.

Also has anything been mentioned about ps4 having party chat?

#152 Edited by jsnyder82 (735 posts) -

Yeah, doesn't really bother me. Maybe I'm "part of the problem", as some people like to say. I dunno. I don't really give a shit. PS Plus is a good service. I'll happily pay for it.

#153 Posted by sub_o (899 posts) -

Why stop there ?

#PS4FreeGamesFreeConsoleAndPayMeExtra$1000

#154 Posted by spraynardtatum (2977 posts) -

It can't all be roses.

#155 Edited by Chaser324 (6556 posts) -

@mulletstorm: Take a look at this video that Sony put out yesterday. It seems to suggest there is some sort of cross game party chat.

Moderator Online
#156 Posted by MulletStorm (9 posts) -
#157 Posted by bassman2112 (837 posts) -

I don't know about you all, but I really don't mind the cost. I've been a subscriber of PS+ since its launch, and love it. I was happy to re-up for it, and I will be re-upping again.

#158 Posted by Dan_CiTi (3322 posts) -

It's fine. PS Plus is a great service already, and it isn't like Netflix is locked behind it either.

#159 Edited by Vinny_Says (5709 posts) -

Hey I already posted here (OP is a greedy idiot) but just wanted to come in and ask that people stop saying you get free games when you pay for PS+. I don't feel like I need to explain why saying that makes no sense (unless english isn't your first language).

#160 Edited by Reisz (1500 posts) -

You're fighting the wrong fight.

#161 Posted by Zero_ (1973 posts) -

I'm fine with paying, esp. considering what they've done so far with regards to DRM and other things.

#162 Posted by TangoUp (307 posts) -

Hey I already posted here (OP is a greedy idiot) but just wanted to come in and ask that people stop saying you get free games when you pay for PS+. I don't feel like I need to explain why saying that makes no sense (unless english isn't your first language).

Don't you also lose access to all "free" games acquired via PS+ if you break subscription even for a month?

#163 Edited by Zornack (195 posts) -

@tangoup: You can't play the PS + games once your subscription is no longer active but once you reactive it you can play them again.

#164 Edited by LiquidPrince (15952 posts) -

PS+ offers tons of other benefits aside from online multiplayer, so no, I don't want to be part of your campaign.

@legion_ said:

@demoskinos said:

Who cares? If $5 a month is the price I have to pay for no DRM on my games then fucking SOLD. Actually signing up today and buying a year.

Well, today $0 is the price you have to pay for no DRM. Seems like people fail to realize that Sony conned them.

Don't be ridiculous... By paying the $5 you get a ton of other bonuses such as free games, game discounts aside from the online multiplayer. Also you seem to be forgetting about online passes... By getting PS+ that will be redundant and therefore removed. Confirmed on the Dump Truck posted by Patrick.

#165 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

#GETAJOBHIPPIE

#166 Edited by ScreamingGhost (214 posts) -

You can't have everything, Sony has servers to run and that costs money. If they want to continue as a company they need to find new ways to gain revenue. I don't know if you've noticed as a company Sony hasn't been doing so hot financially. Another way to see PS+ is like Amazon Prime, you don't have to have it but the videos and shipping discounts add up over time to the point that it pays for itself. Bottom line Sony is providing a service and just like any service they need revenue to maintain and update that service. So either pay or enjoy the single player experiences; or buy a PC where you don't have to pay. Sony isn't going to change their stance on this.

Plus unlike Microsoft you don't need it for other payed services like Netflix. Sony has to get credit for at least not enforcing that policy.

#167 Edited by aerisbueller (6 posts) -

Plus unlike Microsoft you don't need it for other payed services like Netflix. Sony has to get credit for at least not enforcing that policy.

Right. I'd say there's about a one in a million chance the Sony apologists saying that Sony is less evil than MS for this would suddenly be pushed too far at that point if Netflix wasn't behind the paywall. It's a complete flipflop, and shows that the pretend principled stance they had against it on the XBox was just fanboy ammo.

I can only post a few times per day because I'm a newb, but in general wanted to respond to the tone I've been receiving. First off, to those calling me lazy, greedy, selfish, etc etc etc. I'm in a better position to pay for PSPlus than the average gamer, and I probably voluntarily work more hours than the average gamer as well.

I've had PSPlus in the past. I own the console and a ridiculous library of games, 4 regular controllers, 2 move controllers, and the eye, and I've done my share of positive Sony pr and given them a few converts from the darkside. I have absolutely no issue with the price, or the value of PSPlus. My issue is one of principle. Not everyone is in my position financially, and to call those who are not lazy, greedy, cheap, hippie, aside from being ridiculously mean spirited and immature is a moot point. If anyone has an actual response to the following that doesn't devolve into namecalling or avoiding the issues, because "poor billionaire Sony, they're so kind to us, won't you please show appreciation for our lord and savior"

I'd argue that the biggest gamers are the laziest ones. The issue here is that something that has always been free is suddenly behind a paywall. I can game on my cellphone vs people around the world, and I don't see the tiny indie developers crying about how I'm not paying for their servers to do so. My cellphone has less restricted gaming than the PS4. That's pathetic. Second, Sony DOES NOT provide dedicated servers for gaming, as can be noted by many games using Peer2Peer, and some games having lag while others do not. If you'll notice, XBox hasn't done away with peer to peer FPS's.

All the 'improvements to the network' have come from software and firmware. It doesn't cost 10s of millions a month to maintain a storefront, and pay a handful of programmers to rearrange the tiles.

Gaikai admittedly will cost money to continue to expand it as more gamers come in, so I believe Gaikai should be behind a paywall, the streaming, and sharing features could also be behind a paywall. Instant streaming of demos can be behind a paywall. But if two random gamers who don't care about streaming, don't care about the free games, or beta access, or any of the other things that currently come with plus just want to play an online game with eachother, it should be just as free as picking up a second controller.

Playing online for free has been a feature of every internet connected device capable of gameplay (of which there are thousands) in history. MS was incredibly greedy to even conceive of the idea of pay to play online, and now the grand total of devices that don't allow free online play is 3. I pay for the console, the games, and the internet connection. The servers reside at the companies who make the games. This final payment to Sony to be allowed to use my own stuff is a toll they are collecting that has nothing to do with the act of connecting me to other gamers.

Please find a less desperate way to attack me, if you insist on doing so (for no apparent reason), I can assure you I have more than enough money to pay for this crap. My annoyance is forcing me to do so. And before you get the oh so brilliant idea to say "ok fine, get a wii-u then", first off, yes, I probably will. Secondly, I don't know when the regime change came into gaming where expressing my distaste for a defenseless multi-billion dollar corporation's actions became some horrible thing.

And finally someone pointed out that I just joined, and started this thread, and I'm probably trying to rally people to my cause. I think yes, it's pretty obvious that I'm trying to rally people to my cause, seeing as how the original post was a rallying call for people to join my cause, but I'm also interested in hearing opposing viewpoints that don't involve the types of things I'd hear over the headset on xbox live from 10 year olds, and I'll probably participate in the community in other ways as time goes on.

#168 Edited by Szlifier (494 posts) -

Anyone who participate in this campaign is an ungrateful asshole.

#169 Edited by Wraxend (565 posts) -
#170 Edited by EXTomar (4744 posts) -

@mcghee said:

#GETAJOBHIPPIE

I don't think hippies use Twitter or other social media sights.

#171 Edited by THRICE_604 (210 posts) -

People complaining about paying for online play is incredibly childish. Multiplayer is the only thing they are locking behind Plus, all the services MS locks behind the pay wall are all still free. Also Plus is such a value add why wouldn't you buy it. I've got over 20 retail games on my hard drive that either I didn't pay for at all or got at an incredible discount from being a Plus member. I find it really hard to find fault in the program. Thats just negativity for negativity's sake. In the interview with Patrick they clearly said to have enough servers to provide a quality experience takes a lot of money. Thats why Microsoft charges and thats why they are charging. Another generation of what PSN was on PS3 would be terrible. The online experience you got varied so wildly from game to game. Does anyone else remember the games using GameSpy that didn't have voice chat on PS3? That kind of stuff crippled games like Borderlands 1.

#172 Edited by SpartyOn (500 posts) -

@aerisbueller: Online infrastructure costs money. People complained for years...years, that Sony's online offering was not as comprehensive as Microsoft's. Think of how much more we are getting with Sony's online infrastructure this generation. It's insane to me that people are actually complaining about a monthly $5 charge, when the free games you get in 2 months of the service match, or exceed, the service's ANNUAL COST. Simply put, if you don't think Sony's service is worth it, don't buy a Playstation. If you don't think Microsoft's service is worth it, don't buy an Xbox. I, however, find Playstation Plus to be a phenomenal deal at it's current price, and if my membership fee also goes towards enhancing the quality of their multiplayer functionality, I'm all for it so I don't just disagree with your little twitter protest, I'm actively against it. If you want the functionality offered by Steam and the PC, buy a PC. You go ahead and buy what suits your needs, and I'll do the same by purchasing a Playstation 4.

#173 Edited by Shingro (206 posts) -

I would love to live in a world where a majority of gamers could pay for online multiplayer for 8 years with no other significant or lasting benefits *and defend the service* without the market changing notice and adapting.

I don't live in that world. We knew this was coming in XBL became 'a success' or hell, anything but 'an abject failure.'

So that's what we're stuck with, it sucks, but on the plus side... PS+ is actually worth it even before this happened.

#175 Edited by StrainedEyes (1324 posts) -

Paying for online means the infrastructure will be better. PS+ is fantastic but PSN is a sluggish mess. Locking MP behind PS+ will allow them the resources to make PSN what it needs to be.

#180 Posted by moffattron9000 (353 posts) -

It's a complete flipflop, and shows that the pretend principled stance they had against it on the XBox was just fanboy ammo.

Of course it was blatant fanboy ammo, so is most of Sony's (and everyone else's for that matter) PR campaigns. The fact of the matter is that it was an opportunity to build revenue, and I can't blame them for doing that.

#181 Edited by moffattron9000 (353 posts) -

It's a complete flipflop, and shows that the pretend principled stance they had against it on the XBox was just fanboy ammo.

Of course it was blatant fanboy ammo, so is most of Sony's (and everyone else's for that matter) PR campaigns. The fact of the matter is that it was an opportunity to build revenue, and I can't blame them for doing that.

#182 Posted by SKaREO (23 posts) -

I'm not buying one. I play primarily online games and I can do so for absolutely free on my PC. So the future looks bleak for the consoles, I'll be putting my money into further upgrading my rig.

#184 Edited by Azteck (7449 posts) -

Someone is really trying to get his message across here

#185 Edited by CrossTheAtlantic (1145 posts) -

@tangoup said:

@vinny_says said:

Hey I already posted here (OP is a greedy idiot) but just wanted to come in and ask that people stop saying you get free games when you pay for PS+. I don't feel like I need to explain why saying that makes no sense (unless english isn't your first language).

Don't you also lose access to all "free" games acquired via PS+ if you break subscription even for a month?

Yes and no. You lose access to the games for the time you've broken subscription. Resubscribe and you'll be able to download them again (like when you claim the games but don't download them).

#186 Posted by danmcn12 (86 posts) -

PSN is finally got good the past few years and both XBL and PSN are now offering services that make the money worth the while. Sure paying for online sucks, and they don't have to attach online play to the PSN service package, but PSN/XBL as a whole are good values. Much better then what XBL was like on the original Xbox.

Console gamers are used to paying for online, they also are not used to DRM or digital game distribution at all, which is helping Sony tremendously. Take the good with the bad.

#187 Edited by mercutio123 (471 posts) -

You're getting way more than that amount of money in games with PS+. People need to understand that they're a business and are probably going to lose millions with this consumer friendly attitude. Help them out and they will help you in the long run.

#188 Posted by asahdeaf (3 posts) -

You've said multiple times that different services don't have you pay to play online. That's a really good point; just use those services instead. Play your games on PC, play your games on PS3, play your games on your phone; show Sony that you really care about a free online model by not buying their system and not paying for PS+.

The fact of the matter is Microsoft had another source of revenue with Xbox Live that allowed it to upgrade the Xbox UI and the dashboard through many iterations and it helped fund a lot of other projects involved with the 360 and presumably the Xbox One. Sony's getting a new source of revenue to improve the infrastructure of Playstation Network and make it a much better service. Hell, if they spend all that money improving the download speed on the Playstation Network, I'd gladly pay for it.

If we were talking about the current structure of Xbox Live, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. But Playstation Plus isn't JUST for the sake of playing games online. It's for the sake of getting discounts on games on three different platforms, or even getting access to those games at much less than the cost of actually playing them. Playstation Plus is a real value as a service and the paid multiplayer model just seems like a way for Sony to make sure the positives of PS+ can keep rolling with that revenue stream.

You are not entitled to play video games online, that is not some human right that Sony is taking away from you. It's the way they're deciding that their service works and if it's that much of a deal breaker for you, don't buy the Playstation 4 and don't buy PS+. Play your multiplayer games where they're free; that's what I do. Sony's doing as much as they can to ease the blow of paying for multiplayer on PS4 and they're going to use that extra revenue to make the Playstation 4 and PS+ an even better service than it is now.

#189 Edited by Addfwyn (1927 posts) -

1) PS+ is already a crazy deal. If you own any Sony platform (and especially if you own multiple Sony platforms) you are generally crazy to NOT have it. They are putting things behind a paywall that most people should have already anyway. The people I know who have PS3s who don't have PS+ generally do the bulk of their gaming on a 360. I'm a bit skeptical that will happen again this generation.

2) Online services are expensive. While you may want just a barebones service of free MP and nothing else, you are in the minority. A lot of people want and are interested in these extra features. This costs money. Even last generation, the paid service of 360 was generally considered much better than PSN because of the extras.

3) I've heard people arguing that PS+ would lose some of the added value because it's going to become so much more widespread, but I see no proof of that. If you can show me that Sony would be stopping things like the Instant Game Collection? Okay, maybe I'll be on board with your opposition. But I see no reason to believe that is the case right now.

Yes, free would be great. But at $5/month for a lot more online features, I am willing to pay for it.

#190 Edited by shinjin977 (761 posts) -

Gaf for the first time did something awesome that might have save a couple of people's hobby and now here comes another "campaign" to try get something that was never ours to begin with. Free online on ps3 was a feature guys not a right. It was something Sony did to entice people onto the platform because they fucked up big time in 2006 launch. It was never our, it was never a promise feature. It sucks but I don't expect you to gain much support and no this is not sony fan boy defending sony. This is a lot of satisfy ps+ customer seeing no problem with the value/price proposition. If xbox 1 don't do too well maybe they will go free, keep an eye out for that then.

#191 Edited by joshwent (2208 posts) -

Asking us to pay for a service?!? ANTI-CONSUMER BASTARDS!!!

#192 Posted by Chaser324 (6556 posts) -

Out of curiosity, I took a look on Twitter, and this hashtag campaign appears to have virtually zero traction.

I think the response here is pretty overwhelming. People are totally fine with the proposition of paying for PS+, and Sony isn't going to drop the requirement for online play.

Personally, I tend to agree with the popular opinion. I've been pretty satisfied with paying for XBL for years, and in that case, I wasn't even getting any free games thrown my way.

Moderator Online
#193 Posted by WindFall259 (365 posts) -

@sub_o said:

Why stop there ?

#PS4FreeGamesFreeConsoleAndPayMeExtra$1000

#194 Posted by Ferros (220 posts) -

I love when people forget these companies are in the business of making money. Sony aren't doing this to be charitable, they wanna make money and this is a way to do it.

#195 Edited by gomezar7 (61 posts) -

As far as the majority is concerned MS maintained a better online experience. I paid a premium for this service and expected it to maintain that quality. I'm switching over to PS4 now and will have those same high expectations and am willing to put my money where my mouth is.

I think people like me who already pay for and are willing to continue paying will fuck this up for you guys.

#196 Posted by HurricaneIvan29 (582 posts) -

Paying for MP allows Sony to support dedicated servers, eliminating Host Clients for MP which will lower all the latency and lag issues for everyone. Some things are worth paying for. Why do you think MS won the current gen? XBL service was far superior

#199 Posted by tourgen (4505 posts) -

Actually It looks like we are going to see many more games that require more than peer networks. I think the cost is reasonable if pseudo-MMO persistence and co-op grouping start to show up in a significant amount of games.

To be clear though, paying for gold for peer-peer matches on the 360 was indeed a pile of bullshit.

#200 Edited by kadash299 (279 posts) -

This is simply fucking stupid. Everything sony is offering to you guys in the next generation and you're bitching about a yearly fee? Grow the fuck up, get a damn job, and quit your bitching. Sony has been doing great things with this console, making it indie friendly, having the no DRM, and simply supporting the consumer. Plus, think of it this way, M$ is going to charge for Online MP too, So thats going to be $500++++, While Ps4, you can essentially get 2 years worth of online MP for the cost of the Xbox One. Consider things like this before you start some mindlessly fucking stupid twitter campaign that isn't going to change anything. Take your new account troll ass to some other forums that give a fuck about your shitty idea.