Question About Jeff's Comment Regarding Anime (Asura's Wrath)

@Ravenlight said:

@EXTomar said:

@Ravenlight said:

@Jrinswand said:

Evangelion. That is all.

To be fair, the series still didn't make much sense after The End of Evangaleon.

And even then I'd argue that The End of Evangaleon was needly complex. The basic theme of Eva was always "Does humanity need to control their evolution?" which could be expressed in a more straightforward way than a giant rotting Rei in sea of lcl.

I dunno, jerking off to unconscious girls kinda nicely sums up "Does humanity need to control their evolution?"

It is too bad that those are "bookends" to the entire thing which is more fascinating to consider than Eva itself.

@Rapid said:

Aren't they also selling the True ending of Persona 4 the Animation (just saying)?

I'm willing to bet that this is mainly what Jeff was talking about. Everyone assumes he's a huge Persona 4 fan, so either he did watch the anime, or people have been sending him e-mails about the anime, which would include complaining about the true ending only available later on disc. And they do have a right to complain... the current ending is pretty abrupt with almost no denouement, and knowing a (probably) better one is coming is kind of lame.

I came expecting something like: "Does playing this game make me a jerk?"

@Bocam said:

Steins;gate, Persona 4, Bakemonogatari, C3, Angel Beats, Durarara, and Baccano. (Just to name a few off the top of my head) This happens a lot in Japan.

Wait, Steins;gate and Durarara had multiple endings? I'd be surprised because I thought both the endings for those shows were great. I still need to get around to watching more Baccano also.

Guys, Jeff's right. It doesn't happen with every series, but it's totally a common practice to sell the last bit of a show. Sometimes it's some sort of epilogue special, sometimes it's the actual final episode. Naturally that doesn't happen on the collected discs over on this side of the would, because that just wouldn't fly (rightfully so), and you naturally wouldn't notice if you were watching fansubs because it's all free to you anyway. What you might notice is that, sometimes, a final episode will have some kind of out-of-place opening credit or other such sequence, because they made it special for the disc.

Anyway, point is that it's totally a thing. So now all I can do is sit back and laugh at all the folks calling Jeff ignorant when in fact he seems to know something they don't.

Chortle!

I'm curous about this.

How common is the whole 'sell the real ending later' thing?

Evangelion. That is all.

The original FMA Anime is a case of this. They did sell the ending to that "Story" separately in the shamballa movie, but it's definitely the exception and not the rule.

Firefly did it too, but I'd never say that TV Shows have a habit of it.

The bombcast gets things wrong sometimes, happens on most podcasts that are just recorded off the cuff. Try listening to the drunktank sometimes, they don't even get in the ballpark half the time.

The only example that comes to mind of that being true is Evangelion, and the movies were only made as a fuck you to the fans that thought the original ending was too cerebral.

@Sammo21 said:

So it seems that anytime Asura's Wrath is brought up Jeff makes a comment about the game does what anime does all the time: sell the true, or real, ending to the anime separately months later. Now, I don't buy anime all the time nor do I keep up with every anime made, but this comment consistently makes me scratch my head. From what I can tell, at least from all the anime I've seen and own, this really isn't the case. The sell the anime just like television shows, in series, or if its a movie it will be by itself. You might have an OVA a while down the road but that's not really an ending, let a lone a true ending. Hell, sometimes an OVA is a remake of the show (like with the Hellsing Ultimate OVA). Considering I knew he's mentioned at least 3-4 times it just kind of blew my mind in a way that made me wonder if I was just clueless to how anime is sold now. I know the last bit of anime I purchased for my wife for Christmas and it was just like I remembered it when I bought it for myself: a boxed set of the series.

I think the big time, for me, that this happened was Neon Gensis Evangelion, where the creator made a movie after the last episode of the show to fix/change the ending.

@Turambar said:

@SamDrugbringer said:

The original FMA Anime is a case of this. They did sell the ending to that "Story" separately in the shamballa movie, but it's definitely the exception and not the rule.

Firefly did it too, but I'd never say that TV Shows have a habit of it.

The bombcast gets things wrong sometimes, happens on most podcasts that are just recorded off the cuff. Try listening to the drunktank sometimes, they don't even get in the ballpark half the time.

I don't think you could call Conquerers of Shamballa an ending in any way shape or form. It left as many questions open as before with probably less finality than before. More fit as a sequel than anything else.

Also, wasn't the FMA anime written and produced before the end of FMA in the manga? Hence, brotherhood being a thing. They pretty much ran with the original anime and it went pretty well all things considered.

@Superkenon said:

Guys, Jeff's right. It doesn't happen with every series, but it's totally a common practice to sell the last bit of a show. Sometimes it's some sort of epilogue special, sometimes it's the actual final episode. Naturally that doesn't happen on the collected discs over on this side of the would, because that just wouldn't fly (rightfully so), and you naturally wouldn't notice if you were watching fansubs because it's all free to you anyway. What you might notice is that, sometimes, a final episode will have some kind of out-of-place opening credit or other such sequence, because they made it special for the disc.

Anyway, point is that it's totally a thing. So now all I can do is sit back and laugh at all the folks calling Jeff ignorant when in fact he seems to know something they don't.

Chortle!

Jeff's not right.

How much Anime have you actually watched?

I'm almost 40 and I've been watching it since I was like...8? Yeah, we'll say 8, but probably younger with Battle of The Planets/G-Force/Gatchaman. I've been watching it a LONG time and this idea that Anime shows don't end is crap. Sorry, but just because some more recently famous shows were stopped before their time and got revitalised later (you know, TV, like in the US, like Firefly, Anime shows get cancelled, yknow because they're on TV) or a studio runs out of money and ends up creating some obtuse ending which reflects the hearts and minds of the creatives behind it (Evangelion has such an ending) that doesn't mean that it's common practice at all. Hell, some Anime even gets completed when it runs out of fans and general audience numbers (I'm looking at you Macross Frontier) because the art sometimes gets a real chance to tell its own story despite what the accounting department wants.

Jeff's not right and neither are you and it's taking all that's good in me not to call you a weeaboo. Too late.

@Turambar said:

@SamDrugbringer said:

The original FMA Anime is a case of this. They did sell the ending to that "Story" separately in the shamballa movie, but it's definitely the exception and not the rule.

Firefly did it too, but I'd never say that TV Shows have a habit of it.

The bombcast gets things wrong sometimes, happens on most podcasts that are just recorded off the cuff. Try listening to the drunktank sometimes, they don't even get in the ballpark half the time.

I don't think you could call Conquerers of Shamballa an ending in any way shape or form. It left as many questions open as before with probably less finality than before. More fit as a sequel than anything else.

Also, wasn't the FMA anime written and produced before the end of FMA in the manga? Hence, brotherhood being a thing. They pretty much ran with the original anime and it went pretty well all things considered.

Guys, Jeff's right. It doesn't happen with every series, but it's totally a common practice to sell the last bit of a show. Sometimes it's some sort of epilogue special, sometimes it's the actual final episode. Naturally that doesn't happen on the collected discs over on this side of the would, because that just wouldn't fly (rightfully so), and you naturally wouldn't notice if you were watching fansubs because it's all free to you anyway. What you might notice is that, sometimes, a final episode will have some kind of out-of-place opening credit or other such sequence, because they made it special for the disc.

Anyway, point is that it's totally a thing. So now all I can do is sit back and laugh at all the folks calling Jeff ignorant when in fact he seems to know something they don't.

Chortle!

@Superkenon: This isn't a practice that is common place. The fact people really only cite Evangelion as the major one, which really isn't even accurate, shows how little people actually know about the practice.

@SeriouslyNow said:

Jeff's not right.

How much Anime have you actually watched?

I'm almost 40 and I've been watching it since I was like...8? Yeah, we'll say 8, but probably younger with Battle of The Planets/G-Force/Gatchaman. I've been watching it a LONG time and this idea that Anime shows don't end is crap. Sorry, but just because some more recently famous shows were stopped before their time and got revitalised later (you know, TV, like in the US, like Firefly, Anime shows get cancelled, yknow because they're on TV) or a studio runs out of money and ends up creating some obtuse ending which reflects the hearts and minds of the creatives behind it (Evangelion has such an ending) that doesn't mean that it's common practice at all. Hell, some Anime even gets completed when it runs out of fans and general audience numbers (I'm looking at you Macross Frontier) because the art sometimes gets a real chance to tell its own story despite what the accounting department wants.

Jeff's not right and neither are you and it's taking all that's good in me not to call you a weeaboo. Too late.

Wait. Did you just cite watching a lot of anime as the basis for your unquestionable expertise of a japanese subject, and then call me a weeaboo? Isn't that the very definition of that silly word? But good on you for going there. Might I suggest "japanophile" next?

Anyway, you're confusing the subject for something completely different. We're not talking about shows that have gotten canceled and gloriously revived, we're talking about the final episode of a series being put on a disc instead of broadcast like the rest of the episodes. I'm sure you've heard of OVAs. Most of the time they're just extra supplemental things, but more recently the conclusions of a series are released in that way. I think most of the time it's content-related. The final battle being too bloody to be broadcast or some such, so they decide to release it as its own thing instead of censoring or cutting things.

Just 'cause you've never heard of it doesn't mean it's not something that happens. Well... actually, no, you're right. I watch a lot of anime, but I definitely haven't been at it for 30 years, so I suppose I have no right to talk back to you.

I'll just be over here sulking with the other nerds.

@Turambar said:

@Superkenon said:

Guys, Jeff's right. It doesn't happen with every series, but it's totally a common practice to sell the last bit of a show. Sometimes it's some sort of epilogue special, sometimes it's the actual final episode. Naturally that doesn't happen on the collected discs over on this side of the would, because that just wouldn't fly (rightfully so), and you naturally wouldn't notice if you were watching fansubs because it's all free to you anyway. What you might notice is that, sometimes, a final episode will have some kind of out-of-place opening credit or other such sequence, because they made it special for the disc.

Anyway, point is that it's totally a thing. So now all I can do is sit back and laugh at all the folks calling Jeff ignorant when in fact he seems to know something they don't.

Chortle!

DVD bonuses are a thing just as directors cut bonuses on any western movie releases are a thing. While simply money is a part of why actual full episodes do happen on occasion, much of it also has to do with the inability to fit those episodes into the time allotted in the first place. If you are scheduled for a 13 episode run, that's it. If you have a 14th episode, a DVD release is the only way you'll get it broadcasted. Further, watching the televised version is free. Purchasing a video game you deem incomplete still costs you sixty bucks. The two situations are still not comparable regardless of intent.

I won't disagree you there. I'm not arguing whether his comparison is keen. That was directed at the people who don't seem willing to believe that these final episode DVDs exist, claiming he's just making stuff up.

Personally, I'm all for it as an alternative for cutting content or reducing the length to fit the timeslot.

@Superkenon said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

Jeff's not right.

How much Anime have you actually watched?

I'm almost 40 and I've been watching it since I was like...8? Yeah, we'll say 8, but probably younger with Battle of The Planets/G-Force/Gatchaman. I've been watching it a LONG time and this idea that Anime shows don't end is crap. Sorry, but just because some more recently famous shows were stopped before their time and got revitalised later (you know, TV, like in the US, like Firefly, Anime shows get cancelled, yknow because they're on TV) or a studio runs out of money and ends up creating some obtuse ending which reflects the hearts and minds of the creatives behind it (Evangelion has such an ending) that doesn't mean that it's common practice at all. Hell, some Anime even gets completed when it runs out of fans and general audience numbers (I'm looking at you Macross Frontier) because the art sometimes gets a real chance to tell its own story despite what the accounting department wants.

Jeff's not right and neither are you and it's taking all that's good in me not to call you a weeaboo. Too late.

Wait. Did you just cite watching a lot of anime as the basis for your unquestionable expertise of a japanese subject, and then call me a weeaboo? Isn't that the very definition of that silly word? But good on you for going there. Might I suggest "japanophile" next?

Anyway, you're confusing the subject for something completely different. We're not talking about shows that have gotten canceled and gloriously revived, we're talking about the final episode of a series being put on a disc instead of broadcast like the rest of the episodes. I'm sure you've heard of OVAs. Most of the time they're just extra supplemental things, but more recently the conclusions of a series are released in that way. I think most of the time it's content-related. The final battle being too bloody to be broadcast or some such, so they decide to release it as its own thing instead of censoring or cutting things.

Just 'cause you've never heard of it doesn't mean it's not something that happens. Well... actually, no, you're right. I watch a lot of anime, but I definitely haven't been at it for 30 years, so I suppose I have no right to talk back to you.

I'll just be over here sulking with the other nerds.

OVAs are more commonly alternate stories altogether and are only occasionally 'ending' stories, it's just been a more recent trend because post Evangelion and Bubble Gum Crisis Japanese TV directors have been more comfortable in being more aggresive and actively cancelling shows. This led to rise in Anime movie productions (Firefly -> Serenity and The X Files : Fight the Future are some of the similar experiences in the West) which in turn led to a growth in their local Anime watching audiences which in turn led to shows like Macross Frontier (Lost, Heroes and Super Natural would be a similar examples in the US, without the phenomenal success of the X Files movie almost none of those shows would've happened because the X Files TV audience all but disappeared in the last 2 seasons and studio interest in Sci Fi was all but dead). Ghost in the Shell is a prime example of this too. I'm sure I don't need to explain why.

@Turambar said:

@SeriouslyNow: Didn't Macross Frontier actually do rather well in terms of reception and ratings in no small part due to its debut on the 25th anniversary of the franchise?

Season 1 was a HUGE hit. Season 2 started out well but the audience eventaully petered out.

Eh. I only listen to Jeff for his comedic personality, not for any factual accuracy or his critiques.

Well I don't about other anime series but the Persona 4 anime is only including the true ending in the blu-ray set

@Taku128 said:

You guys are all coming at this from the wrong perspective. In Japan this happens all the time nowadays, the last episode is a DVD/Blu-ray exclusive, but in America anime doesn't usually air on TV in the first place, and you just get the last episode on the last DVD/Blu-ray not knowing it was a DVD/Blu-ray exclusive in Japan.

Why did everyone ignore this guys post?.....I know nothing about anime but this may be the right answer.

@Unknown_Pleasures said:

@Taku128 said:

You guys are all coming at this from the wrong perspective. In Japan this happens all the time nowadays, the last episode is a DVD/Blu-ray exclusive, but in America anime doesn't usually air on TV in the first place, and you just get the last episode on the last DVD/Blu-ray not knowing it was a DVD/Blu-ray exclusive in Japan.

Why did everyone ignore this guys post?.....I know nothing about anime but this may be the right answer.

Because there's no citation of examples? So far nobody has actually produced any examples besides "I hear this happens." Case in point:

@jlev880 said:

Well I don't about other anime series but the Persona 4 anime is only including the true ending in the blu-ray set

I know for a fact this is not true. The final DVD of the series will include the final episode and "The true ending."

@SamDrugbringer: You know what, there are times when you just need to put your foot in your mouth.

I looked at the DVD sets to see if the ending was on it's own disk, but now I see why you mention Persona 4, it never aired the true ending.

Welp, this kind of sounds like mystery solved. Dollars to doughnuts Jeff heard about this and it informed this statement.

It is not unheard of for an anime in Japan to not air the last episode on tv and only have it available on DVD when the final volume comes out.

OMAE WA MO SHINDEIRU.

Gundam Wing, prime example of what Jeff was talking about. Forty-nine episodes and what felt like a good conclusion to the story. Then the OVA Endless Waltz comes out and suddenly there was a secret subplot that was running behind the scenes throughout the original story and there are suddenly a colony no one ever talked about and secret mobile suits nobody knew about and now they have a typical "one last mission" thing going on.

Don't get me wrong Gundam Wing is probably just behind Cowboy Bebop as my favorite anime and it is the prototypical example of anime being weird and Japanese and kind ripping you off with its payoff.

@RAMBO604: I think you're reading too much into Endless Waltz. IT was less a secret subplot and more some unseen characters using old contingency plans of Treize to try and take over the world. It's much more like say, Skyrim DLC just adding a new story then an ending DLC.

@CaptainCody said:

@Bocam said:

Steins;gate, Persona 4, Bakemonogatari, C3, Angel Beats, Durarara, and Baccano. (Just to name a few off the top of my head) This happens a lot in Japan.

Wait, Steins;gate and Durarara had multiple endings? I'd be surprised because I thought both the endings for those shows were great. I still need to get around to watching more Baccano also.

Steins;Gate (the visual novel) did have multiple endings, one for each girl except for moeka (not erasing the mail to change Ruka's sex, not erasing the mail to keep Feiris's dad alive, there was even one where Okabe goes crazy and almost tries to rape suzuha) but the anime does not. the anime has a 25th episode where they visit kurisu in LA and nothing happens

@YukoAsho said:

@Hailinel said:

@YukoAsho said:

@Hailinel said:

@theuselessgod said:

@Jrinswand said:

Evangelion. That is all.

The original Evangelion TV series had an ending. It was boggling in its philosophical nature, but it was an ending. The movie End of Evangelion is a completely separate production that takes the place of the original ending and was only produced because the fans went apeshit when the original ending aired. They even snuck shots of actual death threats that were sent to the director regarding the TV ending into the film.

Oh man, I remember those days. At least Retake Mass Effect didn't go that far.

We can only hope. Otherwise I expect that the ME3 Extended Cut ending will feature Shepard strangling a maimed, bandaged [insert love interest here] against the backdrop of James Vega's giant head floating in the sea.

You forgot the massive tang ocean, but otherwise, yeah, that would be about right.

But yeah, gotta love fandom...

That was implied by my mention of the sea, but that is an important specific point.

I do recommend looking at Angel Beats! where if nothing else it was a "surprisingly good" type of show that subverts some tropes. And yes it has been kicked around that too many shows are too long. A great modern trend is the advent of the 13 episode cycle where I like a show like Another but I can't imagine how they would sustain it for 26 episodes.

@Animasta said:

@CaptainCody said:

@Bocam said:

Steins;gate, Persona 4, Bakemonogatari, C3, Angel Beats, Durarara, and Baccano. (Just to name a few off the top of my head) This happens a lot in Japan.

Wait, Steins;gate and Durarara had multiple endings? I'd be surprised because I thought both the endings for those shows were great. I still need to get around to watching more Baccano also.

Steins;Gate (the visual novel) did have multiple endings, one for each girl except for moeka (not erasing the mail to change Ruka's sex, not erasing the mail to keep Feiris's dad alive, there was even one where Okabe goes crazy and almost tries to rape suzuha) but the anime does not. the anime has a 25th episode where they visit kurisu in LA and nothing happens

Oh wow, Those endings sound pretty crazy, I may have to look into it. Thanks for the details.

@EXTomar said:

I do recommend looking at Angel Beats! where if nothing else it was a "surprisingly good" type of show that subverts some tropes. And yes it has been kicked around that too many shows are too long. A great modern trend is the advent of the 13 episode cycle where I like a show like Another but I can't imagine how they would sustain it for 26 episodes.

I find the 13 to 26 episode model to be the best when it comes to not dragging an anime out like the Big Three have managed to stereotype. I remember that being one of the big reasons I like s-CRY-ed so much even though it is a heavy shounen anime.

C'mon, these GB guys are pretty funny, but...

Most of the time, they are just clueless...

I don't come here for information, i come here for entertainment.