Rampant Dishonesty and the Internet

This will be brief. I'm really just hoping to open up a discussion on this topic, as it strikes me as a too common occurrence.

We're all well aware of the upcoming release of Bioshock Infinite, and right now there are many different pre-order "deals" out there to be had. Like many gamers, I'm always keeping my ears open for a good deal. I'm a big follower of Slickdeals for this very purpose. It was there that I heard of their offer on BI, which includes a $15 credit towards other 2k games immediately when you pre-order, and an additional $15 credit towards other 2k games once the game is released. I jumped on this one, because I had been eyeing the 2k Mega pack already, which I ended up getting for under $4 after the credit and a promo code.

So what's my beef? My beef is with the MANY folks who went through the process, received and used that $15 credit, and then CANCELLED the pre-order. They never had any intention of following up with it, they just wanted to take Amazon for a ride to the tune of $15. Sure, it's not a lot of money (and Amazon does basically print money), but that doesn't make it OK, at least in my book.. And perhaps the bigger problem is that many of these people that took advantage of Amazon in this way see NOTHING wrong with what they did. "There's nothing that says you can't cancel." "What's the big deal?"

This kind of thing happens way too often on the internet. Would these people do the same thing if they had to actually walk into some local small business and work that owner over for trying to offer some value? I do also realize that we're talking about huge, faceless corporations, so there aren't necessarily direct correlation to hurting PEOPLE with the behavior, but is there no integrity anymore? No honesty for honesty's sake? Do I sound too much like a crochety old man? :)

Stuff like that doesn't just happen on the internet, so yes they probably would. There are people who buy clothes for events and return them afterwards. Shit like that.

Shit like that always fucking happens and then when places like amazon stop giving bonus' or credit towards another purchase people bitch and whine about it.

The internet is a sketchy place

You telling me people pull a Pitchford on the internet?

That is true, but it just seems like it happens all the time if you can do it soup to nuts on the net. They were able to achieve the whole heist in about an hour, if that, and didn't have to deal with anyone directly. But I tend to think dishonesty comes back to bite you in the ass some day. At least I hope.

Part of it is also that I worry how it will affect me. I'm happy that I was able to pre-order it, and use that credit to get some games I wanted right now. Will Amazon be less likely to have promos like that in the future? Probably, as from what I gather they've already changed it and only give the whole $30 credit AFTER BI comes out.

It's a comforting thought at the very least.

That sounds pretty shady. But hey, everyone should pre-order Bioshock Infinite on Steam. You get a free copy of the original Bioshock, and if enough people pre-order everyone gets XCOM Enemy Unknown for free. (Yes I am mentioning this to get as many people to pre-order it because I want XCOM)

@ll_exile_ll: I totally would have gone the Steam route if I didn't already own Xcom. Sorry brother. :)

The first half of your post I thought you were going to say some bullshit about Bioshock Infinite like "They're trying to trick people into pre ordering it on Steam with all the free games you could potentially unlock" or something of equal whining like I see a lot of in other websites about this particular game. Very glad and refreshing to read that is not what this thread is about at all.

I'll add in all the indy bundles that happen where you can choose your own price. Many people will put $0.00 or just $0.01 to get 5 indy games. Even though it is allowed, it is still pretty shady to me.

At least, I'm pretty sure you can do choose to pay absolutely nothing.

I agree with the OP's sentiments. That flaw in the Origin survey thing a while back so you could basically get unlimited free games comes to mind. EA was kind and let everyone keep that stuff but it did seem like most people were more than happy to abuse the exploit. I guess I just have a problem with dishonesty.

@somedelicook: I can see how you might have thought it was going that way. Nah, I'm not that type. I'm ecstatic I got the 2k Mega Pack for under $4 just by pre-ordering a game I wanted anyway. (And I was pleasantly surprised that nearly ALL of those games activated on Steam!)

You're on the money about the Humble Bundles as well. You can totally pay nothing in some cases, and people do it. I value the work of people who make all these games I love to play, and try to help when I can.

Wow, that makes me feel bad. I bought World of Goo for like a penny, but part of their pay what you want thing, Before the Humble Bundle was a thing. ~ And now my computer sucks, uninstalled WoG a while ago. Serves me right., I think.. : (

I've never done That one though.

Well, it's not like you HAVE to pay a reasonable amount for that kind of stuff. In some cases it just isn't possible. But always try to remember it later, when you DO have the money to pass around, to pass it around to some of those folks!

People do far worse things and claim it's justified. No surprises here.

Corporations do shit like that all the time. You're shooting too low if you're singling out unscrupulous people on the internet.

Sorry but there is nothing wrong with doing that.

It's a net-gain all around for 2K, honestly. It's essentially putting their games on sale for $15 bucks off, which drives a bit of revenue there by spiking sales, and it has the additional bonus of driving up the preorder numbers for Bioshock Infinite, even after the cancelled ones (which aides in the behind-the-scenes promotion, telegraphing interest in Bioshock as a series to investors or solidifying the sequel or next game).

I'm just surprised it took this long for the defenders to surface. ;)

"The corporations and/or other people are dishonest too, so that makes it ok."

"They still come out ahead in the end, so that makes it ok."

"People do a lot worse, so that makes it ok."

If there's one thing people are good at, it's rationalizing bad behavior.

i don't understand how someone can say that its ok to do this

@hiono: Agreed, obviously. :)

People just see it as working the system and they don't feel bad about it because they have been screwed over by these kind of big faceless companies so many times that when they get a chance to do something like this it makes them feel like they finally won one over on them for a change. It sucks for amazon, but I understand why someone would do it and not feel bad about it. Plus there are just some people that see it as $15 free dollars and don't give shit how they get it, or that since they were giving it back to amazon anyway there was no loss/gain.

Have you seen the addendum, the amendment to the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory? It was originally Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Fuckwad, now it's been patched to Normal Person + Audience - Consequences = Fuckwad. That's the problem, is that they expect absolutely no repercussions of the financial sort, and anonymity grants them immunity from public scorn.

And yeah, people will rationalize their bad behaviour to degrees beyond the pale.

I wonder if at some point the legal teams at places like Amazon will bake in stipulations to credits like this. "By using this promotional credit, you agree to blah blah blah." I think my biggest gripe isn't the low morality Greater Internet Fuckwads, but how they may make things shittier for everyone else in the future due to their actions.

That is kind of scummy but what do you expect from the internet. As Vinny has said before "I fucking hate the internet"

Seriously need something to do if you are so morally out raged by people taking advantage of a flawed system.

If you're gonna step to the net and not have your shit locked down, you're going to get punished for it.

I just don't see why someone would get worked up over this. It's not like it's the first time, it's not like it hasn't happened outside of the internet, and it sure as hell isn't like corporations have never found loopholes to screw over customers. Yeah it's shady, but who fucking cares in the end. 2K isn't going to go bankrupt from it since they just put a bunch of their digital copies on sale for people that probably wouldn't have bought it to begin with. The system was flawed, and people took advantage of it just as people do when Steam accidentally puts a game on 90% off. Does that mean they are scum too just because they choose to get a good price? Not in my book.

You should care. It's about having a little fucking integrity and not taking advantage of shit just because you can. I like to get stuff I want cheap just like anyone else, but that doesn't mean I do it with reckless disregard for honesty. This isn't a question of "degrees" of wrong-ness or anything like that. This is obviously dishonest. Minor? Sure, it's minor, in relative terms. It's minor to steal 10 bucks from someone relative to stealing a grand from them too, that doesn't make it ok.

These people still had to pay for their games. 2K games, that they probably wouldn't have bought in the first place. Like I said before, it's as if they had a publisher deal, and all the games went on sale for $15 off, except they got the additional bonus of increasing the Bioshock Infinite preorder numbers, which is beneficial to them, as well.

You might as well get pissed at people for buying games on sale, too.

I like the cut of your jib, sir.

The people that are okay with this have never had anything of theirs stolen.

Well, shit. If my pc could run in I'd probably be all over that deal but it's starting to get a bit long in the tooth. And sadly it doesn't seem that they're making a comparable deal for console versions.

As for what you're talking about, I'm mostly just surprised Amazon doesn't have methods in place for dealing with this issue. They're usually pretty good about that, I thought.

When I lived in a medium sized city, I would go to the local "shoppers club" super market. It just so happened that I could only go on the weekend, so I would find myself shopping for a pallet of ramen and 50 lbs of pasta like everyone else. But, of course it is Saturday and that is "free sample day". You could tell there was a whole category of shoppers who were not shopping around at all they were pushing an empty cart while they went to the 20 food stations sampling all the free food.

The thing is, it never annoyed me, it was just part of the shopping experience. The parade of human pageantry and/or tragedy on display on any give Saturday was just life. If you really broke it down who was more TWISTED, they people there pushing empty carts to get some free snacks or those of us pushing over-sized carts of 10 gal cans of pasta sauce and 60 count boxes of frozen White Castle Hamburgers? As a twenty something not making much that shoppers club super market where I could buy ramen noodles for 10 cents per-pack was a life saver.

Part of the game of life is looking at the angles. John D. Rockerfeller looked at the angles, Henry Ford looked at the angles, and those people getting gift certificates from Amazon are doing the same. My angle was eating ramen six nights a weeks so I could take my GF out once a week. She was smoking hot...it was a damn fine angle!!!

@monkeyking1969: If these people are paying their $50+ membership in order to eat nibbles of food that these places give out for free (because it's about to go past the sell date anyways) then THEY AREN'T VERY SMART SHOPPERS!

Honesty for honesty's sake is not a particularly well regarded trait these days. I am in agreement with your sentiments, but I don't think that there is a convincing argument in place to stop people pulling shit like this. We can only concern ourselves with our own dignity.

I take your meaning, but this was old school Sam's Club circa 1993 in Connecticut. Back then in CT you didn't pay for Sam's Club, you just had to sign up, get your cheap ID card made, and you were good to go. There was some weirdness in CT back then where they didn't charge for Sam's Club, but I take you meaning that that is not typically the case.

@monkeyking1969: I heard a hilarious story about someone who tried to do "sample shopping" in another country (I think it was Japan?) and got chased out of the fucking store by one of the employees.