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#1 Posted by benpicko (2012 posts) -

Watching the E3 streams and reading some game threads on both Reddit and Neogaf after either their announcements or a reveal of new gameplay, I genuinely can't get over how relentless the cynicism is. Granted, I've pretty much ignored any gaming website's comment section for the entirety of the year for precisely this reason so I'm not sure why I decided to care now either, but nobody has any actual criticism to offer at all, even in the loosest sense of the word: the thread for The Order 1886 on Neogaf is basically just a fucking stream of people saying 'wow that looks shit' 'lel gameplay what gameplay' 'they should back away from any creative decisions they've made and make the game I want'. Do they just hunt for shit to complain about? If you don't like the game, don't buy it. Seriously. That new Fable didn't really interest me too much, but guess what? Unless it manages to sway me in the opposite direction, I'm probably just not going to buy it.

I can't imagine how it must be for people who actually work in gaming to read nothing but negativity, because I have nothing to do with it at all and I can't bring myself to read any comments either.

What is it about gaming that breeds this? Or is this just the internet? I've noticed Tumblr does the same thing but with basically everything else

And now I'm complaining about people complaining :^)

#2 Posted by MjHealy (1866 posts) -

It's the internet and E3. There a lot of idiots out there at this time of the year. While this will not go down as an E3 classic, but people shit on it as this always happens every year. Either everything is awesome or awful and it's mostly the latter.

Best idea? Just ignore it. Who cares what Neogaf (for everything ever)? Just enjoy what you enjoy. I find the Giant Bomb streams a great way to critically look at the show -- they give a great perspective.

Seriously though, the EA press conference was bad.

#3 Posted by HH (617 posts) -

blame the relentlessly gushing pr bullshit that these conferences choose as their method of delivery. i find that hard sell really hard to take, it's so obviously fake it makes me recoil. we don't really need you to pile it on so thick, we love games to begin with, but man the states is so entrenched in that culture it just seems like these companies are blind to the negative effects of it.

i'm cynical for others reasons too - the lean towards avatars designed by pop/nerd culture, like that dude in scalebound, whatever that game turns out to be, there's no way in hell i could stomach playing as that little twerp.

#4 Edited by impartialgecko (1699 posts) -

I'm definitely guilty of this. I guess it's because I've grown up and am generally over most of what these companies are showing. Destiny for instance, I'm sure that game will be great. I just don't give a shit about sci-fi dudes saving humanity. I really fucking don't. I also don't care about The Division because you're hiding behind things and shooting guys like it's 2006. I guess either I just don't like what AAA games are doing or they haven't started doing anything different.

No Man's Sky though. Now that's a videogame.

#5 Posted by Devil240Z (3406 posts) -

they will die in the inevitable rage wars of the future. when the government loses control and chaos reigns supreme. they will die first so be happy!

#6 Posted by Mcfart (1717 posts) -

MS/Ubi/Sony are the same conferences as every year, but EA's conference was horrible. Everything was a prototype except for sports games (they probably already finished the next 5 year's worth of those, just modify roasters and release), and Sims.

#7 Posted by HeyGuys (557 posts) -

@hh: Scalebound's trailer doesn't look like much but it's Platinum Games and Kamiya I wouldn't read too much into the character at this point.

#8 Edited by T_wester (282 posts) -

It's easier and less risky to react with snark and cynicism than naive optimism. and in this "age of information" are opinions formed, posted and forgotten without much if any thought.

#9 Posted by Corvak (1161 posts) -

I get why people are jaded and bitter, but I always end up feeling like the rest of the internet is trying to drag me into their pit of misery, and resents the fact that i'm happy. Even if the industry does just release the same thing with a few changes, and the final product never looks like it did at E3, I just feel better being naive and optimistic than constantly under a dark cloud.

But I guess the core of this issue is that everyone expects every aspect of E3 and the conferences to appeal directly to them.

#10 Posted by TangoUp (314 posts) -

The amount of righteous optimism evident around here for some dumb stuff is equally nauseating to be honest. Being a contrarian is a thing, best get used to it.

#11 Posted by Jesus_Phish (1087 posts) -
#12 Posted by CaLe (4039 posts) -

The demographic of people who sit home and watch press conferences probably heavily overlaps with depressed people who rarely go outside. Pessimism is their business, and business is good.

#13 Posted by Capum15 (4966 posts) -

I just tend to ignore them.

They can all be negative, but I'll be here enjoying video games. No Man's Sky is still my E3 favorite but man, Far Cry 4, The Division, Call of Duty...those are some good looking games. I could see myself having fun with them. Looking forward to GTA V for PC too.

#14 Posted by Dussck (324 posts) -

I feel exactly like this. Why not focus on the things you think are cool and leave the stuff you don't care about by the side. I could go endlessly on about Sunset Overdrive and why I don't like that game, but why would I? Do I want to try to convert the people that do like it? What am I getting out of that? If you like that game then great for you!
I'm not saying no one can say anything negative about a game ever, but there are alot of people just going on and on about why they think something sucks.

I've seen alot of interesting stuff so far this E3. 2014 will be awesome still, 2015 probably even better. Be positive! :)

#15 Posted by TangoUp (314 posts) -

@hh said:

blame the relentlessly gushing pr bullshit that these conferences choose as their method of delivery. i find that hard sell really hard to take, it's so obviously fake it makes me recoil. we don't really need you to pile it on so thick, we love games to begin with, but man the states is so entrenched in that culture it just seems like these companies are blind to the negative effects of it.

Bingo. Just like the E3 reveal of Bioware's new Mass Effect. Just the usual inane corporate speak cliches wheeled out.

#16 Posted by Soap (3631 posts) -

I've got to think their is some feeling of superiority to be felt in bashing someones hard work. I imagine that plays a large part in it.

#17 Posted by excido (200 posts) -

I understand people not liking the whole PR of it but it IS PR. That being said it's nothing different from what happens in other industries. PR is PR. We should be excited for the games and properties that look fun. I find the negativity a bit much as well. I also hate how so many people act like things have to be either amazing or they are total crap, nothing in the middle. Nothing wrong with a game that's just fun, not bad and not great. nothing wrong with a game that doesn't appeal to you either, if it appeals to someone else. I personally don't think little big planet 3 showed that well but it looked like something that I may be able to play with my daughter so I'll probably get it. People complaining about what the order is? don't buy it! I LOVE story heavy games and I love the atmosphere and the mechanics shown so far. By the same token I personally haven't bought a CoD game in several years now but I also don't complain about it or care, there will always be games for me just as there are games for others.

#18 Edited by TheAcidSkull (673 posts) -

People are bitter assholes in general.

Just ignore them, I can understand when someone has genuine criticism but most of the complaints are exactly how you described it, negative for the sake of being negative.

#19 Edited by Ascardon (71 posts) -

Anyone else noticed some hipster/negative attitude at the giantbomb streams, especially at the beginning of microsoft press briefing?. i tried to watch 5 min and then i closed the page and went to xbox.com watching their instead.

Also all the other streams giantbomb have showed a unproffesional attitude, jaded/bitter/angry at the industry wich is understandable if i was in their place, but remember who your fans are giantbomb!. also remember without fans,you are nothing but ordinary journalist. This is just my opinion.PS! i am very good at spotting negativity, i saw Vinny struggle to keep the positive spirit up.

#20 Edited by TrafalgarLaw (1211 posts) -

Neogaf is full of armchair developers and elitist scum. Just laugh at those bitter comments while you actually play them instead of gloating about framerates.

#21 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1627 posts) -

I mean, did you see what happened when watch_dogs was ever mentioned? Same thing.

#22 Posted by IIGrayFoxII (303 posts) -

I understand. I am in the same boat, as forums and comment sections are mostly the only outlet I have to discuss anything gaming related. You are better off just ignoring them completely. Eventually you are just numb to ignorant comments.

This is definitely not exclusive to gaming. Any internet comment section on any subject is just as gross.

#23 Posted by tourgen (4542 posts) -

lol neogaf.

#24 Edited by Tidel (360 posts) -

Relentless cynicism comes from the top down. When treated with contempt, it is reasonable to respond with it. I absolutely agree than the tone in forum trenches can be aggressively negative, but I don't think it's completely unwarranted. As consumers, gamers are more savvy to PR spin than we're given credit for, and the big guys consistently fail to recognize that every inaccurate target demo, every bullshot, every Molyneux promise, every focus-tested robot line-read that presumes we are stupid, every nickel-and-dime scheme, every predatory action they take to part us from our money has a cost, and it is hearts and minds.

Shat bed, be the change you want to see in the world.

#25 Posted by leebmx (2247 posts) -

@adam1808 said:

I'm definitely guilty of this. I guess it's because I've grown up and am generally over most of what these companies are showing. Destiny for instance, I'm sure that game will be great. I just don't give a shit about sci-fi dudes saving humanity. I really fucking don't. I also don't care about The Division because you're hiding behind things and shooting guys like it's 2006. I guess either I just don't like what AAA games are doing or they haven't started doing anything different.

No Man's Sky though. Now that's a videogame.

And this is it really. I still play AAA games because I enjoy the scale and beauty of some of these titles, but it can't be denied that some of the creative decisions around bigger titles are cliche, safe and homogonised. I supposed this is to be expected as what we are dealing with is the games industry's version of the big $250mil summer blockbuster and they are terrified to take any risks at all. This is why Ubisoft have settled on one template for all their big francises, i.e. big open world with tons of mini games which are exposed by climbing up towers, its why all the heroes are gruff 30 year old white dudes, and why every game is bristling with firearms. Its why we get sequel after squel and even new IP like WatchDogs just seems like a re-skin of other games.

I understand why publishers/developers are pushed in this direction but it does breed cynicism. HOWEVER - when good or interesting games come along, you see the excitement and interest levels are still there, and as strong as they ever. Witness No Man's Sky, Project Beast, the indies at Sony and even The Division and Far Cry 4, despite what I have said about Ubisoft, witness the goddamn Witness (hopefully to turn up at the show).

There is cynicism, but that is because the kind of people who tune in for industry shindigs like E3 are naturally clued-up, interested connoisseurs with a sharp nose for the kind of bullshit which gets thrown around far too liberally at E3 press conferences. The reason Sony, for the most part, have done so well recently is that they have got on stage and just shown games, and been genuinely enthusiastic for same experiences we enjoy without seeming patronising. What breeds cynicism is the feeling that one is being lied to, or that the marketing is covering up some deficiency with the product. We don't need fireworks, or edgy swearing, or celebrities, just good games presented with passion and honesty.

#26 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@cale said:

The demographic of people who sit home and watch press conferences probably heavily overlaps with depressed people who rarely go outside.

Isn't that heavily stereotyping?

#27 Posted by Coafi (1490 posts) -

Every year we get a thread like this.

#28 Edited by CaLe (4039 posts) -

@video_game_king said:

@cale said:

The demographic of people who sit home and watch press conferences probably heavily overlaps with depressed people who rarely go outside.

Isn't that heavily stereotyping?

I said probably, so it's only conjectural stereotyping.

#29 Edited by pyrodactyl (2282 posts) -

The color commentary from the crew struck the perfect balance. They got super excited about games that looked great/interesting and called out boring/bad moments. You should've watched that instead of listening to random internet jerks.

#30 Posted by EXTomar (4922 posts) -

Isn't complaining about complainers also "relentless negativity"? I am pretty sure not everyone on those places where cynical and snark about the whole thing.

#31 Edited by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
@cale said:

@video_game_king said:

@cale said:

The demographic of people who sit home and watch press conferences probably heavily overlaps with depressed people who rarely go outside.

Isn't that heavily stereotyping?

I said probably, so it's only conjectural stereotyping.

It's stereotyping nonetheless.

#32 Posted by hollitz (1596 posts) -

Eh, most of the stuff that I see from the unwashed masses is generally positive. See more negativity coming from the press side of things. Couldn't give less of a fuck about either. Doesn't impact my enjoyment/hype.

#33 Edited by HeyGuys (557 posts) -

Eh, leave those negative nancys in the dust. Sure transparent marketing and rampant pandering can be grating as shit but at the end of the day there are creative, ambitious people working on most games who legitimately want to bring something special to the table.

#34 Posted by kdm (11 posts) -

As per everyone that's chimed in thus far, welcome to the internet. Even if it's not much of a talking point, happy to hear someone willing to call it out for what it is. I've got personal console preferences, but that doesn't mean I want to see the opposite crap themselves during their unveiling.

#35 Posted by Demoskinos (15107 posts) -

People overhype E3 and then get disappointed when its not the best thing since sliced bread.

#36 Posted by CaLe (4039 posts) -
@cale said:

@video_game_king said:

@cale said:

The demographic of people who sit home and watch press conferences probably heavily overlaps with depressed people who rarely go outside.

Isn't that heavily stereotyping?

I said probably, so it's only conjectural stereotyping.

It's stereotyping nonetheless.

Most of them probably have brown hair, too.

#37 Posted by Viking_Funeral (1859 posts) -

It takes less effort and it's more defensible to take a negative position than a positive one, especially online. People are also grabbing onto the idea that complaining is how to implement change.

Then again, naive optimism just leads to people preordering and supporting game series that are long due for positive change. That's supported by hype, which these conferences are all about.

Finally, if someone is the type to pick a side in the console war, then you want to bash the competition and hype your 'side.' The whole thing is a mess of extreme opinions.

#38 Edited by Natesaint (148 posts) -

I learned one thing from E3 so far: I can put off buying a new console for another year. Yay!

#39 Posted by me3639 (1837 posts) -

Totally agree, and the whole thing is tired. But, i will bet anything today will be completely different. Why? While it is common rule that berating, making fun, and blasting the likes of EA, Sony and such is applauded, that sort of sarcasm will not be directed at Nintendo in any way. Why? its site suicide. Instead you will hear awesome, cant wait to play, excited, cant believe they did that.

#40 Edited by EXTomar (4922 posts) -

I have a new thought (actually it is an old idea): How about people stop worrying about how the other guys feels? If you are super stoked about what you saw at E3, why does it matter if a bunch of people like being curmudgeons more than they liked the event?

#41 Posted by PerfidiousSinn (763 posts) -

Having Twitter clients that let you mute people & hashtags is awesome this time of year.

#42 Posted by Karkarov (3230 posts) -

Don't over think it dude. Here is reality. Angry people will always want to let you know they are angry. ALWAYS. Happy people are too busy being happy to care about stopping to let you know how great life is, they have better things to do with their time. It is human nature that negative feelings are more likely to be communicated. Hence why most stuff looks negative most of the time on the internet. It has a lot to do with where you go and what you read. If you want something other than relentless nerd/internet negativity don't go to NeoGaf. It really is that simple.

As for The Order.... the trailer really wasn't very good. It was like a few seconds of gameplay and a ton of pre rendered movies. It was a very by the numbers, very predictable, very boring trailer. The secret is this though... E3 is not a fan show, it is a business show and it is about companies showing off their products to other companies and media really. They aren't marketing this to gamers, they are gunning for business execs. Business execs normally don't play video games, they want to be wowed and sold on a concept. Gameplay trailers won't do that. Hence why you don't see good gameplay trailers at E3.

#43 Posted by stryker1121 (1569 posts) -

Your first mistake was visiting NeoGaf..but the negativity there and elsewhere is fostered by lack of trust, and this is something's that infected gaming press as well. Lots of "too good to be true" type commentary from the GB crew last night over the No Man's Sky footage. Frankly, I cannot blame them, because as nice as that game looks, there's no indication of how it plays. Overall, it's a "wait and see" attitude more than anything..hell I'm not impressed by the little I've seen of The Order thus far, but willing to hold my judgment til there's some real gameplay footage to come through.

#44 Edited by NTM (7519 posts) -

You're not the only one that thinks this. I mean, overall none of it blew me away from an originality standpoint, but a lot of it, like Batman, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed and so on had tech behind it that had me excited enough to make me want to play them when they come out (at least is how I feel right now, which can change at any time). They looked cool. It was some solid stuff, just not all too surprising in terms of what's announced.

I think what's most bothersome is when you see people talking negatively towards a game you think looks fine, and it just comes off as overly vitriolic. I've only visited this site, GameSpot and IGN mainly when it comes to comments. Honestly it was kind of expected. There was some stuff I didn't like so much of, like Rainbow Six and The Division commentary, it all just seemed blatantly unrealistic in terms of what would actually go on, and there were games I'd rather see more of than another.

#45 Posted by VierasTalo (912 posts) -

It's really funny how 99% of the time the most common complaint on the site is how jaded all members of the staff are only for E3 to roll around and the second someone says something looks impressive everyone goes OH IT CAN'T LOOK LIKE THAT I KNOW THIS I'VE PLAYED GAMES.

#46 Posted by NTM (7519 posts) -

@me3639: Unless they show just a lot of Smash Bros. I heard that'll be the case, and I hope it's not. I'm hoping for some new stuff that I didn't know was coming, or know is coming, but haven't really seen any concrete evidence to its existence (a new Zelda, perhaps Metroid).

#47 Posted by Relkin (162 posts) -

@corvak said:

But I guess the core of this issue is that everyone expects every aspect of E3 and the conferences to appeal directly to them.

You hit the nail on the head.

#48 Edited by NTM (7519 posts) -

@extomar said:

I have a new thought (actually it is an old idea): How about people stop worrying about how the other guys feels? If you are super stoked about what you saw at E3, why does it matter if a bunch of people are like being curmudgeons more than they liked the event?

Having to see and try to comment on a game it seems no one else cares about or shows any enthusiasm for isn't fun. Most people that come on these want to make conversation, or want to be heard and then have back and forth talk about the shared interest. If we look farther down the line, if one were to buy a game, and they loved it, while no one else did, no sequel. Farfetched, but just saying. To me it makes sense, but yes, people shouldn't dwell on it too much. I just don't really find your argument quite as valid as it probably should be, and is easier said than done.

#49 Posted by Ghost_Cat (1467 posts) -

That sort of negativity is often bad for your health, so don't worry about it so much and enjoy a longer life than the other saps.

#50 Posted by Zirilius (719 posts) -

EA's press conference wasn't that bad especially when you compare it Ubi's Mr. Caffeine conference or just about any Konami conference. It was the worst of the Monday's conferences for sure but not terrible by any means. Yes there were a lot of prototypes but I think the change in management is leading to a lot of changes in the company. I believe they only wanted to show off things they know would get people excited. ME 4 and Battlefront both excited me just because of the fly bys and the visual fidelity they were trying to achieve. If either of those games look half that good I'll be happy. Would I have liked to see more actually gameplay of game? Absolutely, but I also know we are still in the middle of transitioning console generations and a lot of projects may have been shifted over from last gen to current gen.

I for one really like a lot of EA franchises and while I don't necessarily agree with all their business practices its not enough for me to stop spending money on their games.