@darji: Consequences others may experience? I really doubt the scale of finances involved were irreparable -- wasn't it even mentioned refunds were given out?
On the other hand, she was about to lose her life! How are we going to "think about consequences" that can be reversed in face of the irreversible consequence of taking one's own life! The fact that we're trying to compare the consequences of a monetary value to the consequence of suicide based on very deep personal problems I doubt anyone here knows the full story behind does not sit well with me at all.
Chloe is a liar, a cheat, and a would-be criminal. Her "condition" is no excuse to prey upon people's good will.
And quite frankly, I'm sure she would have gotten much more support if she were honest in her intentions.
So how is any of this reason for somebody to kill themselves?
Seriously, internet. Cut the fucking shit. What happened in the past doesn't really matter when somebody whose clearly suffering from severe depression tried to fucking kill themselves live in front of hundreds of viewers.
I didn't care about the indiegogo controversy before. I still don't. I went on not giving a flying fuck about it. But people are being dicks to somebody who clearly isn't in a mental state to deal with it and all of them need to fuck right off.
I agree; I don't think any of us has right to judge. No matter where anyone stands on the moral compass, I think it compromises values to force a judgment upon others without fully understanding the perspective of the people involved. How are we going to bring up that they might've cost other people money in the past when they're attempting to throw their life away in the present?
I've known someone in particular who has made some terrible life decisions and in spite of finally having the desire to come clean, he ended up committing suicide anyway and left behind a family that was supposed to rely on him. People would never stop judging him for his past mistakes in spite of his desire to clean up his life. No one looked out for him. In spite of how passionately he sounded like he wanted to clean up his life, I guess the pain was too much for him; there were so much more people judging him than actively helping him.
I can't accept the assumption that "she would have gotten much more support if she were honest" because my personal experience above exemplifies the case of someone who was seeking help and by not getting it ultimately committed suicide; it's the most crushing thing in the world to find out something like that when the last time I saw him he seemed so optimistic about cleaning up.
All I'm trying to say is that instead of judging others, people really need to look out for each other more. A lot of the discussion in this thread really shouldn't be happening at all.
The problem here is also that she did not hurt herself with these lies but mostly also people who actually have true intentions for such a campaign maybe not get funded or it will taken down because of this. Just to think about the person instead of the consequences other may experience because of this is not really the right think to do in my opinion.
I'm going to make this really simple for this thread and the rest of the internet. I want you guys to tell me which has more importance over the other:
The loss of potential sales/trust on a crowd funding website
The loss of one's life
I'll give everybody a moment to think about it. I'll give you guys some hints. Did what she do in the past suck kind of bad? Yes. Did she deserve the riled up anger it received? Yes, up until the donations were refunded. Did she deserve to be humiliated, tormented, and blackmailed after the refunds were given out? No. Does she deserve to take her own life because she did one shitty thing that was resolved long before it came to this?
EDIT: I've redacted my original post since the post I was responding to got deleted. I just hope everyone continues to exercise tact and respect in this thread.
Chloe is a liar, a cheat, and a would-be criminal. Her "condition" is no excuse to prey upon people's good will.
And quite frankly, I'm sure she would have gotten much more support if she were honest in her intentions.
So how is any of this reason for somebody to kill themselves?
Seriously, internet. Cut the fucking shit. What happened in the past doesn't really matter when somebody whose clearly suffering from severe depression tried to fucking kill themselves live in front of hundreds of viewers.
I didn't care about the indiegogo controversy before. I still don't. I went on not giving a flying fuck about it. But people are being dicks to somebody who clearly isn't in a mental state to deal with it and all of them need to fuck right off.
I agree; I don't think any of us has right to judge. No matter where anyone stands on the moral compass, I think it compromises values to force a judgment upon others without fully understanding the perspective of the people involved. How are we going to bring up that they might've cost other people money in the past when they're attempting to throw their life away in the present?
I've known someone in particular who has made some terrible life decisions and in spite of finally having the desire to come clean, he ended up committing suicide anyway and left behind a family that was supposed to rely on him. People would never stop judging him for his past mistakes in spite of his desire to clean up his life. No one looked out for him. In spite of how passionately he sounded like he wanted to clean up his life, I guess the pain was too much for him; there were so much more people judging him than actively helping him.
I can't accept the assumption that "she would have gotten much more support if she were honest" because my personal experience above exemplifies the case of someone who was seeking help and by not getting it ultimately committed suicide; it's the most crushing thing in the world to find out something like that when the last time I saw him he seemed so optimistic about cleaning up.
All I'm trying to say is that instead of judging others, people really need to look out for each other more. A lot of the discussion in this thread really shouldn't be happening at all.
The problem here is also that she did not hurt herself with these lies but mostly also people who actually have true intentions for such a campaign maybe not get funded or it will taken down because of this. Just to think about the person instead of the consequences other may experience because of this is not really the right think to do in my opinion.
I'm going to make this really simple for this thread and the rest of the internet. I want you guys to tell me which has more importance over the other:
The loss of potential sales/trust on a crowd funding website
The loss of one's life
I'll give everybody a moment to think about it.
I give you another thing to think about. These crowd funding things are often the last chance these people have. So yeah I go with the lives of more people than only one. These people also have troubles and problems they face. They maybe different or maybe even the same but they need as much help as other people. They are also desperate or fear for their future and life.
Man, this thread was going pretty damn well too. People on both sides were arguing their points with respect (props to @darji. I didn't agree with him but he was reasonable and respectful.) and then this last page some people decided to throw tact out of the window. Too bad.
I see this topic looked at the academic, rigorous view I attempted to put forward on the first page... and then ripped the wheel completely to the right and took a trip into Ignorant Town. You hate to see it.
Put aside science and biology. People who disregard the gender she identifies as are disrespecting her by calling her a he. Forget biology, this is how humanity works.
Also, @animasta, please try not to resort to names. That won't convince anyone to understand anyone. It will only raise tempers.
Chloe is a liar, a cheat, and a would-be criminal. Her "condition" is no excuse to prey upon people's good will.
And quite frankly, I'm sure she would have gotten much more support if she were honest in her intentions.
So how is any of this reason for somebody to kill themselves?
Seriously, internet. Cut the fucking shit. What happened in the past doesn't really matter when somebody whose clearly suffering from severe depression tried to fucking kill themselves live in front of hundreds of viewers.
I didn't care about the indiegogo controversy before. I still don't. I went on not giving a flying fuck about it. But people are being dicks to somebody who clearly isn't in a mental state to deal with it and all of them need to fuck right off.
I agree; I don't think any of us has right to judge. No matter where anyone stands on the moral compass, I think it compromises values to force a judgment upon others without fully understanding the perspective of the people involved. How are we going to bring up that they might've cost other people money in the past when they're attempting to throw their life away in the present?
I've known someone in particular who has made some terrible life decisions and in spite of finally having the desire to come clean, he ended up committing suicide anyway and left behind a family that was supposed to rely on him. People would never stop judging him for his past mistakes in spite of his desire to clean up his life. No one looked out for him. In spite of how passionately he sounded like he wanted to clean up his life, I guess the pain was too much for him; there were so much more people judging him than actively helping him.
I can't accept the assumption that "she would have gotten much more support if she were honest" because my personal experience above exemplifies the case of someone who was seeking help and by not getting it ultimately committed suicide; it's the most crushing thing in the world to find out something like that when the last time I saw him he seemed so optimistic about cleaning up.
All I'm trying to say is that instead of judging others, people really need to look out for each other more. A lot of the discussion in this thread really shouldn't be happening at all.
The problem here is also that she did not hurt herself with these lies but mostly also people who actually have true intentions for such a campaign maybe not get funded or it will taken down because of this. Just to think about the person instead of the consequences other may experience because of this is not really the right think to do in my opinion.
I'm going to make this really simple for this thread and the rest of the internet. I want you guys to tell me which has more importance over the other:
The loss of potential sales/trust on a crowd funding website
The loss of one's life
I'll give everybody a moment to think about it.
I give you another thing to think about. These crowd funding things are often the last chance these people have. So yeah I go with the lives of more people than only one. These people also have troubles and problems they face. They maybe different or maybe even the same but they need as much help as other people. They are also desperate or fear for their future and life.
Even then, Chloe's case is a very isolated case relative to all of crowdfunding. I feel like there are many worse offenders that discredit crowdfunding as a whole. I highly doubt that Chloe's actions on IGG will have a large enough impact to have consequences for crowdfunding as whole.
Also, even if people are at the end of their rope financially, crowdfunding is definitely not their last option. Actually, I really don't think they should put all their stakes on crowdfunding, either -- there are many other outlets in place for them to make a living and even if they absolutely went broke there's still places out there that can support them financially.
But I digress, my point is that the discussion regarding her past with crowdfunding shouldn't even brought up right now. There's a time and place for this type of discussion and I don't think it should be right now when someone just attempted suicide.
That being said, this is definitelynot the time to try and argue genetics and biology as reaction to someone's suicide attempt. That's as tactful as going to military funeral and arguing politics. Not the time and place.
Man, this whole thread is just a real bummer. So much ignorance. So much hate.
I do not think so. There are always some people who are like that but these are the minority. But most of them are just clueless and therefore can not understand hat people like you are going through.
@equitasinvictus: I understand your sentiments, but I do believe that this is the time to talk about it, because if this is all true, then she attempted suicide because she couldn't get the funding to something that was actually a disguise for her sex change, which she lied about because she was afraid to talk about it, to let anyone know, and that's very sad and needs to be addressed.
Man, this whole thread is just a real bummer. So much ignorance. So much hate.
I do not think so. There are always some people who are like that but these are the minority. But most of them are just clueless and therefore can not understand hat people like you are going through.
There's a difference between just not understanding and calling me a freak straight to my internet face. One of them is understandable because, hey, what we want is not exactly normal and I don't expect everybody to see where I am coming from. The other is hateful, and whether they intend it to or not, it does cause damage.
@animasta I've never seen an animal that identifies itself as the opposite gender of what it is. You can't change nature, man.
It doesn't change the fact that she is infact a he and has always been that way. Mutilating your body to make you look like another gender doesn't make you a woman.
Humans are animals, and there are some who identify themselves as the opposite gender. If you're looking to lesser animals to determine what things the different and more complicated human can and cannot experience, you're an idiot.
Man, this whole thread is just a real bummer. So much ignorance. So much hate.
I do not think so. There are always some people who are like that but these are the minority. But most of them are just clueless and therefore can not understand hat people like you are going through.
There's a difference between just not understanding and calling me a freak straight to my internet face. One of them is understandable because, hey, what we want is not exactly normal and I don't expect everybody to see where I am coming from. The other is hateful, and whether they intend it to or not, it does cause damage.
and besides constantly explaining it to everyone gets annoying too.
Chloe is a liar, a cheat, and a would-be criminal. Her "condition" is no excuse to prey upon people's good will.
And quite frankly, I'm sure she would have gotten much more support if she were honest in her intentions.
So how is any of this reason for somebody to kill themselves?
Seriously, internet. Cut the fucking shit. What happened in the past doesn't really matter when somebody whose clearly suffering from severe depression tried to fucking kill themselves live in front of hundreds of viewers.
I didn't care about the indiegogo controversy before. I still don't. I went on not giving a flying fuck about it. But people are being dicks to somebody who clearly isn't in a mental state to deal with it and all of them need to fuck right off.
I agree; I don't think any of us has right to judge. No matter where anyone stands on the moral compass, I think it compromises values to force a judgment upon others without fully understanding the perspective of the people involved. How are we going to bring up that they might've cost other people money in the past when they're attempting to throw their life away in the present?
I've known someone in particular who has made some terrible life decisions and in spite of finally having the desire to come clean, he ended up committing suicide anyway and left behind a family that was supposed to rely on him. People would never stop judging him for his past mistakes in spite of his desire to clean up his life. No one looked out for him. In spite of how passionately he sounded like he wanted to clean up his life, I guess the pain was too much for him; there were so much more people judging him than actively helping him.
I can't accept the assumption that "she would have gotten much more support if she were honest" because my personal experience above exemplifies the case of someone who was seeking help and by not getting it ultimately committed suicide; it's the most crushing thing in the world to find out something like that when the last time I saw him he seemed so optimistic about cleaning up.
All I'm trying to say is that instead of judging others, people really need to look out for each other more. A lot of the discussion in this thread really shouldn't be happening at all.
The problem here is also that she did not hurt herself with these lies but mostly also people who actually have true intentions for such a campaign maybe not get funded or it will taken down because of this. Just to think about the person instead of the consequences other may experience because of this is not really the right think to do in my opinion.
I'm going to make this really simple for this thread and the rest of the internet. I want you guys to tell me which has more importance over the other:
The loss of potential sales/trust on a crowd funding website
The loss of one's life
I'll give everybody a moment to think about it.
I give you another thing to think about. These crowd funding things are often the last chance these people have. So yeah I go with the lives of more people than only one. These people also have troubles and problems they face. They maybe different or maybe even the same but they need as much help as other people. They are also desperate or fear for their future and life.
Even then, Chloe's case is a very isolated case relative to all of crowdfunding. I feel like there are many worse offenders that discredit crowdfunding as a whole. I highly doubt that Chloe's actions on IGG will have a large enough impact to have consequences for crowdfunding as whole.
Also, even if people are at the end of their rope financially, crowdfunding is definitely not their last option. Actually, I really don't think they should put all their stakes on crowdfunding, either -- there are many other outlets in place for them to make a living and even if they absolutely went broke there's still places out there that can support them financially.
But I digress, my point is that the discussion regarding her past with crowdfunding shouldn't even brought up right now. There's a time and place for this type of discussion and I don't think it should be right now when someone just attempted suicide.
That being said, this is definitelynot the time to try and argue genetics and biology as reaction to someone's suicide attempt. That's as tactful as going to military funeral and arguing politics. Not the time and place.
But it was her last chance as well. Why is this person more important than future persons? Also each day many people try to kill themselves because they do not know any other solution anymore. But that should not stop people from talking about the issue or maybe try to find a solution and respectful discussion. That said blaming her or making fun of her is surely not the right way to do this.
For example today I learned about the address problem these people have and I will respect that from now on.
But as for me she is not more important than any other person who tries to commit suicide just because she is transsexual. She did something she should have not done and people should talk about it and only for making their problems more known to the public. The best outcome is that she now is getting professional help and that is what counts I guess.
Chloe is a liar, a cheat, and a would-be criminal. Her "condition" is no excuse to prey upon people's good will.
And quite frankly, I'm sure she would have gotten much more support if she were honest in her intentions.
So how is any of this reason for somebody to kill themselves?
Seriously, internet. Cut the fucking shit. What happened in the past doesn't really matter when somebody whose clearly suffering from severe depression tried to fucking kill themselves live in front of hundreds of viewers.
I didn't care about the indiegogo controversy before. I still don't. I went on not giving a flying fuck about it. But people are being dicks to somebody who clearly isn't in a mental state to deal with it and all of them need to fuck right off.
I agree; I don't think any of us has right to judge. No matter where anyone stands on the moral compass, I think it compromises values to force a judgment upon others without fully understanding the perspective of the people involved. How are we going to bring up that they might've cost other people money in the past when they're attempting to throw their life away in the present?
I've known someone in particular who has made some terrible life decisions and in spite of finally having the desire to come clean, he ended up committing suicide anyway and left behind a family that was supposed to rely on him. People would never stop judging him for his past mistakes in spite of his desire to clean up his life. No one looked out for him. In spite of how passionately he sounded like he wanted to clean up his life, I guess the pain was too much for him; there were so much more people judging him than actively helping him.
I can't accept the assumption that "she would have gotten much more support if she were honest" because my personal experience above exemplifies the case of someone who was seeking help and by not getting it ultimately committed suicide; it's the most crushing thing in the world to find out something like that when the last time I saw him he seemed so optimistic about cleaning up.
All I'm trying to say is that instead of judging others, people really need to look out for each other more. A lot of the discussion in this thread really shouldn't be happening at all.
The problem here is also that she did not hurt herself with these lies but mostly also people who actually have true intentions for such a campaign maybe not get funded or it will taken down because of this. Just to think about the person instead of the consequences other may experience because of this is not really the right think to do in my opinion.
I'm going to make this really simple for this thread and the rest of the internet. I want you guys to tell me which has more importance over the other:
The loss of potential sales/trust on a crowd funding website
The loss of one's life
I'll give everybody a moment to think about it.
I give you another thing to think about. These crowd funding things are often the last chance these people have. So yeah I go with the lives of more people than only one. These people also have troubles and problems they face. They maybe different or maybe even the same but they need as much help as other people. They are also desperate or fear for their future and life.
Even then, Chloe's case is a very isolated case relative to all of crowdfunding. I feel like there are many worse offenders that discredit crowdfunding as a whole. I highly doubt that Chloe's actions on IGG will have a large enough impact to have consequences for crowdfunding as whole.
Also, even if people are at the end of their rope financially, crowdfunding is definitely not their last option. Actually, I really don't think they should put all their stakes on crowdfunding, either -- there are many other outlets in place for them to make a living and even if they absolutely went broke there's still places out there that can support them financially.
But I digress, my point is that the discussion regarding her past with crowdfunding shouldn't even brought up right now. There's a time and place for this type of discussion and I don't think it should be right now when someone just attempted suicide.
That being said, this is definitelynot the time to try and argue genetics and biology as reaction to someone's suicide attempt. That's as tactful as going to military funeral and arguing politics. Not the time and place.
But it was her last chance as well. Why is this person more important than future persons? Also each day many people try to kill themselves because they do not know any other solution anymore. But that should not stop people from talking about the issue or maybe try to find a solution and respectful discussion. That said blaming her or making fun of her is surely not the right way to do this.
For example today I learned about the address problem these people have and I will respect that from now on.
But as for me she is not more important than any other person who tries to commit suicide just because she is transsexual. She did something she should have not done and people should talk about it and only for making their problems more known to the public. The best outcome is that she now is getting professional help and that is what counts I guess.
Transexual or not, I'd still be riled up over somebody trying to take their life because that shit ain't cool. Which is my entire point.
Like I said earlier in the thread, I haven't followed any of the things surrounding her at all before today, and reading up on it and seeing how people continued to harass her nonstop for the last month is what's getting me upset more so than anything else being discussed.
Man, this whole thread is just a real bummer. So much ignorance. So much hate.
I do not think so. There are always some people who are like that but these are the minority. But most of them are just clueless and therefore can not understand hat people like you are going through.
There's a difference between just not understanding and calling me a freak straight to my internet face. One of them is understandable because, hey, what we want is not exactly normal and I don't expect everybody to see where I am coming from. The other is hateful, and whether they intend it to or not, it does cause damage.
But how many people called you a freak? It is not the thread it is this one or two persons. At least from what I have read. (Sorry I did not read everything from the beginning) For example I would never call you that we may have different opinions but I respect you as a person^^
@darji: I feel like we're mostly on the same page; while people should certainly be more open about problems in general, however, I just feel like that this thread ended up taking it too far -- not your posts in particular but the handful that boiled down to ad hominem arguments aimed at people.
: People will make these grave mistakes on a whim precisely because they're afraid. I agree that it's very sad and it needs to be addressed, I just feel like we've put too much focus on the mistake part than actually addressing it, especially with the types of posts on this thread, which is what prompted me to speak out.
By me saying that "this is not the time and place" I was more so referring to outright hateful posts that have been scattered throughout this thread, especially when it got to inappropriate ad hominem attacks I mentioned earlier. This discussion got a little out of hand, there.
@darji: I feel like we're mostly on the same page; while people should certainly be more open about problems in general, however, I just feel like that this thread ended up taking it too far -- not your posts in particular but the handful that boiled down to ad hominem arguments aimed at people.
: People will make these grave mistakes on a whim precisely because they're afraid. I agree that it's very sad and it needs to be addressed, I just feel like we've put too much focus on the mistake part than actually addressing it, especially with the types of posts on this thread, which is what prompted me to speak out.
By me saying that "this is not the time and place" I was more so referring to outright hateful posts that have been scattered throughout this thread, especially when it got to inappropriate ad hominem attacks I mentioned earlier. This discussion got a little out of hand, there.
Yeah I agree with that as well there are always people who are ignorant or just idiots. The solution is just to try to ignore these people and rather focus on the real discussion. Even if its really difficult to do if you are much more involved in this matter than other people.
If someone identifies as a certain gender, I have no problem considering them whatever they want to identify as. It doesn't bother me at all.
She should not have lied about what she was raising money for, but had she been honest, I would have gladly given her the money she needed. I have had transgender friends before, and I support them in their transitions. Last I heard, she was alright. I hope she recovers quickly.
Man, this whole thread is just a real bummer. So much ignorance. So much hate.
I do not think so. There are always some people who are like that but these are the minority. But most of them are just clueless and therefore can not understand hat people like you are going through.
There's a difference between just not understanding and calling me a freak straight to my internet face. One of them is understandable because, hey, what we want is not exactly normal and I don't expect everybody to see where I am coming from. The other is hateful, and whether they intend it to or not, it does cause damage.
But how many people called you a freak? It is not the thread it is this one or two persons. At least from what I have read. (Sorry I did not read everything from the beginning) For example I would never call you that we may have different opinions but I respect you as a person^^
It's a small number, but larger than you may think. Things like this are not exclusive to this thread. If only they were. I'm not going to bother showing off the private messages I've received calling me a freak or telling me to kill myself because again, this isn't a pity party, and I already feel like I've derailed this enough trying to talk about my personal experiences.
Log in to comment