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#1 Edited by Galiant (2195 posts) -

So because I couldn't discuss this in what I considered a relevant topic, I'll try to continue the discussion here. Please keep it civil.

Recently there's been talk of creating a Giant Bomb group for homosexual gamers to play games together (people of all sexual orientations welcome, go here if you're interested in joining). I'm not too keen on the name (I'm allergic to puns), but that's not the real issue. Getting a group of Giant Bombers together to play games is all well and good, but why does it matter what your sexual orientation is? I would think that if such a group were to be created, people that would hurl random insults about people's sexuality or race or what have you would no longer be welcome regardless, so why make the distinction? How does our sexual preferences matter at all when all we want to do is play video games together?

I want to clarify that I'm not trying to offend anyone here (else I'd probably be called a homophobe or something, despite how irrelevant that would be), I'm just genuinely interested.

Could anyone here explain to me why they think there needs to be a Giant Bomb group dedicated to gaming that is based on the fact that some of the members are homosexual? I personally think that it's strange to draw a parallel between gaming and sexual orientation, but I'm obviously missing a piece of the puzzle here. If all we want is to separate ourselves from the insults of the stereotypical gaming community by only adding Giant Bombers to the mix - what does being gay have to do with it?

Update:

I feel like I need to add my thoughts to this after reading through all of the replies so far.

  • I know what segregation means, and in this case, I'm just using it as a fancy word for "separation", setting yourself apart from the main group (in this case, creating a group that is separate from the general online gaming community). I'm not talking about feeling left out or discriminated against because this group exists, I even stated in my original post that I already know that everyone is welcome to the group (apparently some people didn't read that part).
  • I am not against the creation of this particular group, I am asking why it needs to exist, and why it needs to be based on a sexual orientation. I thought I made this clear in my original post but according to some of you, apparently not.
  • Two people that are gay can have literally nothing in common except for the fact that they're gay, which is why I find it so strange that some of you are comparing it to a group sharing a similar interest, like cars or whatever. Being gay is a sexual orientation, playing games is an interest. Sex is an interest. Why draw a parallel between sex and games unless you specifically want to discuss sex and games? That's what I find weird about this. You can't assume that gay people want to discuss sex with strangers online just because they're gay. I wouldn't want to discuss sex with strangers I play games with, gay or straight.
  • Like some have already concluded, if all you're looking for in creating this group is a sanctuary from jerks that would ruin your online experience, you don't have to base that group on being gay. You can base it on not allowing said jerks to participate.
  • If the purpose of this group is actually to find potential partners that also enjoy playing video games, maybe that should be made more clear - you can't assume every gay gamer who joins wants to discuss sex or relationships with strangers (as mentioned above).
  • If the sole reason this group exists is to effectively weed out people who would throw needless insults based on your sexuality, then that's as valid a reason as any - because those people would never join a group named "gaymer". It does sound more effective than not allowing the broad term "jerks", but it also alienates some people who would gladly join a group where no one is discriminated against or insulted because of their sexuality or otherwise, but they don't join because they're not gay (and that's what the name implies would be your reason for joining).
#2 Posted by MikeGosot (3227 posts) -

Everyone is invited to the group, so sexuality doesn't really matter, but i think it' great to have a group where you can talk about what you like and be who you are without a bunch of motherfuckers pissing you off because of it. This is not segregation, it's more of a place without hate. And people really shouldn't care for sexuality, this shouldn't change jackshit in how you see a person, but people are dumb.

#3 Posted by NTM (7555 posts) -

Wait... That was for Giantbomb? I thought it was some type of gaming convention.

@MikeGosot said:

Everyone is invited to the group, so sexuality doesn't really matter, but i think it' great to have a group where you can talk about what you like and be who you are without a bunch of motherfuckers pissing you off because of it. This is not segregation, it's more of a place without hate. And people really shouldn't care for sexuality, this shouldn't change jackshit in how you see a person, but people are dumb.

Yes, that's true, but why make a comment on sexuality in the first place than? Why not just say "Hey, everyone's invited! Talk about what you want." Or whatever? No one ever had to explicitly say something about sexuality, but they did, and that's why these things are even discussed.

#4 Posted by kermoosh (911 posts) -

@MikeGosot said:

Everyone is invited to the group, so sexuality doesn't really matter, but i think it' great to have a group where you can talk about what you like and be who you are without a bunch of motherfuckers pissing you off because of it. This is not segregation, it's more of a place without hate. And people really shouldn't care for sexuality, this shouldn't change jackshit in how you see a person, but people are dumb.

what he/she said, i'm not gay yet i put my gamertag on that thread. I'm a person who welcomes change, diversity, and is open to new ideas.

I work with "gay" people myself, but in reality they're just regular ordinary people. I understand the segregation thing but MikeGosot pointed out that this group is a place where hate doesn't exist. No one will make fun of others and everyone can just play games and have a good time. If anything, they are segregating themselves from ignorant hate mongers that are out there in the world

#5 Posted by MikeGosot (3227 posts) -
@NTM said:

Wait... That was for Giantbomb? I thought it was some type of gaming convention.

@MikeGosot said:

Everyone is invited to the group, so sexuality doesn't really matter, but i think it' great to have a group where you can talk about what you like and be who you are without a bunch of motherfuckers pissing you off because of it. This is not segregation, it's more of a place without hate. And people really shouldn't care for sexuality, this shouldn't change jackshit in how you see a person, but people are dumb.

Yes, that's true, but why make a comment on sexuality in the first place than? Why not just say "Hey, everyone's invited! Talk about what you want." Or whatever? No one ever had to explicitly say something about sexuality, but they did, and that's why these things are even discussed.

Well, if you leave it too open, there are bound to be some assholes. Besides, by stating the whole sexuality thing, it may attract people that have the same interests as you, so you can have better conversations. This is no different from "Gaming Group for People who Like Cars" or "Anime Gaming Group" or whatever club or group with the same interests.
#6 Edited by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

@NTM said:

Wait... That was for Giantbomb? I thought it was some type of gaming convention.

@MikeGosot said:

Everyone is invited to the group, so sexuality doesn't really matter, but i think it' great to have a group where you can talk about what you like and be who you are without a bunch of motherfuckers pissing you off because of it. This is not segregation, it's more of a place without hate. And people really shouldn't care for sexuality, this shouldn't change jackshit in how you see a person, but people are dumb.

Yes, that's true, but why make a comment on sexuality in the first place than? Why not just say "Hey, everyone's invited! Talk about what you want." Or whatever? No one ever had to explicitly say something about sexuality, but they did, and that's why these things are even discussed.

Because people have always hung out with people that think and act like them. The real question is, Why does it matter to you?

#7 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7100 posts) -

Except it's not segregated by sexuality. The OP explicitly stated that it was for gay gamers and supporters of gay rights, so I see no reason to get up in arms over this.

#8 Edited by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

Yeah, this was my point, I don't understand the need for it. I still see it as the same as if someone started a "Black gamers" group or "Christian gamers" group. The "Everyone else can join too!" line is a bit of a cop out, because any way you cut it, you've still made a group for gay people, this is not open and free, the name even specifically segregates non-gay gamers. I get the need to want to avoid homophobic abuse, but there's a big difference between 'General Xbox live' and 'Gaymer Group'. If you were bothered by it, why not make a general Xbox gamer group and one of the rules to join is "Don't be a dick"?

@MariachiMacabre said:

Except it's not segregated by sexuality. The OP explicitly stated that it was for gay gamers and supporters of gay rights, so I see no reason to get up in arms over this.

Yes it is. It's a "Gaymer group". It's segregated by the very nature. The "I guess straight gamers can join to..." is a cop out.

@MikeGosot said:

Well, if you leave it too open, there are bound to be some assholes. Besides, by stating the whole sexuality thing, it may attract people that have the same interests as you, so you can have better conversations. This is no different from "Gaming Group for People who Like Cars" or "Anime Gaming Group" or whatever club or group with the same interests.

But do gay people have significantly different interests to straight people? It's kind of like saying all Black people like rap...

#9 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4284 posts) -

Why cant gay people have regular ass groups where they can talk about relationship stuff with other people who share the same sexual preferences?  Relationships/talking about who youre attracted to is a huge part of conversation nowadays.  Theyre not plotting how to get rid of all the straight people in the world so I dont get the problem.......  

#10 Edited by psylah (2187 posts) -

It's to make a group where everyone you meet has a common agreement that they won't hurl homophobic slurs or hate speech at each other which is all the rage these days in gaming.

It's not to exclude straight gamers or to try to claim "gay power", it's to make a more friendly environment.

Also, they allow straight and gay members. Stop freaking out and calling it "Segregation". I don't think you understand what that word means.

#11 Posted by Turambar (6898 posts) -

@Galiant: I think you misconstrue the purpose of that group from the name. "Gaymers" is a pretty bad pun I'll admit, but it's not meant to mean it is only for those that are homosexual. It's meant to denote a safe zone where homophobic acts, purposeful or otherwise, are not tolerated. Think of it as a school's LGBT safe zone. That zone is not meant for only LGBT, but rather is a guide line for everyone's behavior.

#12 Posted by MikeGosot (3227 posts) -
@Inkerman said:

@MikeGosot said:

Well, if you leave it too open, there are bound to be some assholes. Besides, by stating the whole sexuality thing, it may attract people that have the same interests as you, so you can have better conversations. This is no different from "Gaming Group for People who Like Cars" or "Anime Gaming Group" or whatever club or group with the same interests.

But do gay people have significantly different interests to straight people? It's kind of like saying all Black people like rap...

Well, i can start with the part that they like people of the same sex. The guy who created the group, posted in the "Post a picutre of yourself thread" asking to know gay gamers. I don't know if he wants to meet them, or simply talk about boys, or whatever but what's a best way to know gay gamers than playing games? What's the best way to attract gay gamers than putting it into the title?
#13 Edited by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Inkerman: Starting a group with conditional participation is inherently not "open and free," so the distinction that you're making between excluding homophobes or excluding dicks is completely irrelevant. The argument is pointless.

No, all groups have certain conditions on being members (that's what groups are for), one of the most common conditions is "don't be a dick", or derivatives thereof. Placing conditions on sexuality (which is what this group does by implication if not explicitly) is not a common condition for joining a group, hence the controversy. The point is, we could have had a group, in which homophobia was prohibited (thereby protecting gay members from abuse) but straight members wouldn't have felt weird or out of place, and there would have been no controversy, instead, we have this.

#14 Posted by Turambar (6898 posts) -

@Inkerman said:

@MikeGosot said:
Well, if you leave it too open, there are bound to be some assholes. Besides, by stating the whole sexuality thing, it may attract people that have the same interests as you, so you can have better conversations. This is no different from "Gaming Group for People who Like Cars" or "Anime Gaming Group" or whatever club or group with the same interests.

But do gay people have significantly different interests to straight people? It's kind of like saying all Black people like rap...

Yes, I'd say homosexual people are much more offended by homophobic remarks thrown out absentmindedly than heterosexuals.

#15 Posted by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

@MikeGosot said:

@Inkerman said:

@MikeGosot said:

Well, if you leave it too open, there are bound to be some assholes. Besides, by stating the whole sexuality thing, it may attract people that have the same interests as you, so you can have better conversations. This is no different from "Gaming Group for People who Like Cars" or "Anime Gaming Group" or whatever club or group with the same interests.

But do gay people have significantly different interests to straight people? It's kind of like saying all Black people like rap...

Well, i can start with the part that they like people of the same sex. The guy who created the group, posted in the "Post a picutre of yourself thread" asking to know gay gamers. I don't know if he wants to meet them, or simply talk about boys, or whatever but what's a best way to know gay gamers than playing games? What's the best way to attract gay gamers than putting it into the title?

Then that's an entirely different issue, which he didn't talk about. All he said was 'This is a group for gay gamers to play videogames'. If that was his intention, there are better ways of going about it. Which is kind of why this is an issue.

#16 Posted by Turambar (6898 posts) -

@Inkerman said:

@rebgav said:

@Inkerman: Starting a group with conditional participation is inherently not "open and free," so the distinction that you're making between excluding homophobes or excluding dicks is completely irrelevant. The argument is pointless.

No, all groups have certain conditions on being members (that's what groups are for), one of the most common conditions is "don't be a dick", or derivatives thereof. Placing conditions on sexuality (which is what this group does by implication if not explicitly) is not a common condition for joining a group, hence the controversy. The point is, we could have had a group, in which homophobia was prohibited (thereby protecting gay members from abuse) but straight members wouldn't have felt weird or out of place, and there would have been no controversy, instead, we have this.

Given the number of of responses coming from heterosexual members asking if they can join, I'd say that concern is wholly false.

#17 Edited by zeekthegeek (390 posts) -

Frankly Giant Bomb needs a safe zone, the amount of insulting homophobia I've seen on this site is extremely disappointing, as I always thought GB had a better class of games fans around. I think Inkerman and Goliath you are far overreacting and should just do what is best in this case: not join the group. Don't worry, there are plenty of groups out there. People are free to associate however they wish. This happens literally everywhere all the time.

#18 Posted by MikeGosot (3227 posts) -
@Inkerman: I can't see how the group is an issue. Heterosexuals can join. People can play videogames. And gays can talk about whatever they want without the fear of someone being a dick. Why is this an issue? Is it because of the name(Which was used to attract people who feel like the OP, and you'll understand if you read his post in the group thread)? Why? This doesn't make sense.
#19 Posted by DukesT3 (1945 posts) -

Maybe its just a group where people can be comfortable and not have to worry about bullshit homophobia. Bigotry isn't going away anytime soon thats for sure.

#20 Edited by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Inkerman said:

The point is, we could have had a group, in which homophobia was prohibited (thereby protecting gay members from abuse) but straight members wouldn't have felt weird or out of place, and there would have been no controversy, instead, we have this.

You can have that group right now, just start it and organize it. Then you can make whatever rules you like and people who don't like your rules can choose not to join. It's almost too simple.

@MikeGosot:

Which is the point. If I posted a thread asking people to join a "White Gamers" group, where we'd talk about "White people's interests" etc, but then said non-white people can join, I would probably get a ton of negative response about being a racist and the thread itself would probably be locked and deleted from the get go (which is totally a good thing, as per the "don't be dick" rule), yet we have an almost completely identical thing here, and to question it is viewed as unacceptable.

The OP could have said, "hey guys I'm tired of getting shit on Xbox live from 12 year olds, and wanted to find some people to play with who aren't homophobes", problem solved. Instead he asked to create a group for gay people.

#21 Posted by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@Inkerman said:

@rebgav said:

@Inkerman: Starting a group with conditional participation is inherently not "open and free," so the distinction that you're making between excluding homophobes or excluding dicks is completely irrelevant. The argument is pointless.

No, all groups have certain conditions on being members (that's what groups are for), one of the most common conditions is "don't be a dick", or derivatives thereof. Placing conditions on sexuality (which is what this group does by implication if not explicitly) is not a common condition for joining a group, hence the controversy. The point is, we could have had a group, in which homophobia was prohibited (thereby protecting gay members from abuse) but straight members wouldn't have felt weird or out of place, and there would have been no controversy, instead, we have this.

Given the number of of responses coming from heterosexual members asking if they can join, I'd say that concern is wholly false.

Only if you can prove they're joining the group because it's a gay group, not because the group is probably not full of assholes.

#22 Posted by darkdragonmage99 (741 posts) -

@kermoosh: Lol i don't know of any group of people were no one gets made fun of

#23 Posted by BraveToaster (12588 posts) -

I deleted my first post. I agree with the OP in regards to segregating, but there are quite a few vocal people in this community who have slung around homophobic language. Remember how shitty things were after Ryan posted a blog about something he said during a live stream? I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should live and let live. If they want a place where they can discuss gay stuff without being ridiculed, then leave them alone. I especially need to learn to leave things be.

#24 Posted by coaxmetal (1658 posts) -

why not? its just as good a reason to group up as anything else. I don't really see any problem unless you are mad about getting left out of the fun? Plus I bet the probably would let you join their cool club anyway as long as you weren't a bigot or jerk.

#25 Posted by MikeGosot (3227 posts) -
@Inkerman: It's not like people are always dicks to white people. The guy just wanted to create a group without homophobes and he stated that sexual orientation was never a barrier for entry. How can you say he is creating a group for gay people WHEN HE INVITES NON GAY PEOPLE? In the first line of his post, even. You're reading too much into this.
#26 Posted by kindone (2843 posts) -

@Galiant: I think it's solely on the fact that, generally, users misuse the term "Gay," and tend to use derogatory statements that use sensitive triggers. Examples would be:

"That's so gay," "you're gay," "you're a faggot." Etc. Etc.

While I see it as the wrong way to go at things, there really cannot be a negative taken away from this. Let's face it, Homosexuals are not the "normal" when you want to talk in mathematics, and that can intimidate them. Giving them a form of "promised" sanctuary" may give them a boost in confidence and let them know that not everyone is a bigot, nor an ass hole. I think the general misconception is that when groups like this arise, everyone wants to talk about same-sex intimacy like it's some sort of girly sleep-over. Well, it's not, but what it is is a group of shy individuals wanting to enjoy their experiences like the rest of this in a safe environment.

While in the end, I think all of this is silly, I wouldn't mind being a part of a group that is actively trying to be more serious about the maturity in the gaming environment. I like to think that jackasses on-line talking about raping my wife because I beat them in a game is probably just as offensive as someone say "that's gay" to (or around) a homosexual. Eventually, these types of groups will not exist any more when the common mind-set is that homosexuals are only different in their sexual desire, and not their personality. However, that day has not come just yet, and these types of forward movements to broaden the common-mentality of the user is something we should look well upon instead of shrugging it off as a group of people begging for attention.

#27 Posted by coaxmetal (1658 posts) -

heterosexuals have to sit in the back of the bus. The video game bus. choo choo.

#28 Edited by coaxmetal (1658 posts) -

Be the Rosa Parks of the heterosexual gamer, stand up against the gay oppressors and their unjust segregation of the gaming community, also while you are at it stand up for men's rights too because that's a great idea that isn't super bigoted.

#29 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4284 posts) -
@Inkerman said:

@rebgav said:

@Inkerman said:

The point is, we could have had a group, in which homophobia was prohibited (thereby protecting gay members from abuse) but straight members wouldn't have felt weird or out of place, and there would have been no controversy, instead, we have this.

You can have that group right now, just start it and organize it. Then you can make whatever rules you like and people who don't like your rules can choose not to join. It's almost too simple.

@MikeGosot:

Which is the point. If I posted a thread asking people to join a "White Gamers" group, where we'd talk about "White people's interests" etc, but then said non-white people can join, I would probably get a ton of negative response about being a racist and the thread itself would probably be locked and deleted from the get go (which is totally a good thing, as per the "don't be dick" rule), yet we have an almost completely identical thing here, and to question it is viewed as unacceptable.

The OP could have said, "hey guys I'm tired of getting shit on Xbox live from 12 year olds, and wanted to find some people to play with who aren't homophobes", problem solved. Instead he asked to create a group for gay people.

Theres a huge difference between "white people interests" and "gay people interest".  Dont clump them together.  
#30 Posted by coaxmetal (1658 posts) -

Have I told you guys about how oppressed I am as a stright white male? It's basically the worst.

#31 Edited by sirean_syan (11 posts) -

There was actually an experiment with an entire website based off this idea earlier in the 00's. While the site is gone, you can see it in the Wayback Machine.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040125232223/http://www.alloutgames.com/

Lets just say the site crashed and burned pretty hard. The idea of tolerance eventually worked against the site as the heterosexual crowd felt like they were being pushed against by some of the staff (who were admittedly militant).

#32 Edited by believer258 (12216 posts) -

@zeekthegeek said:

Frankly Giant Bomb needs a safe zone, the amount of insulting homophobia I've seen on this site is extremely disappointing, as I always thought GB had a better class of games fans around. I think Inkerman and Goliath you are far overreacting and should just do what is best in this case: not join the group. Don't worry, there are plenty of groups out there. People are free to associate however they wish. This happens literally everywhere all the time.

I've been frequenting this site several times a day for almost this whole year and was visiting it often enough before then; where, might I ask, have you seen homophobia? I have, in my time here, not seen any sort of prevalent homophobia or even any sign of implicit homophobia except for the occasional new user who calls something "gay" (and is generally corrected right on the spot).

EDIT: OK, other than Ryan's mishap. Yeah, I know that exists.

On this topic - sure, let it exist. If a bunch of LGBT people want to discuss being LGBT amongst themselves, I don't see a big problem. I don't want to join it because I'm not in that group and would probably feel out of place, but live and let live I say. You're free to join it if you're straight, it's not any sort of "exclusive" club, it's just aimed at LGBT people.

#33 Posted by Contrarian (1143 posts) -

When will people see that minority groups sometimes like safe zones, places they can feel comfortable and free to say what they want, without the likelihood of antagonism or worse? The whole argument of a white person group is stupid as it is irrelevant.

I remember just talking with a gay colleague at work and then having the piss taken out of me for hanging with a gay guy. Why does that happen? Just because I talk to a gay guy doesn't mean I'm gay, equally it doesn't mean he wants anything more than a conversation. If you want to be comfortable, then you will gravitate to those you relate well with.

I could set up an Australian gamers group on here, would that be a big deal? It might be because we can talk about Australian stuff, free of stereotypical jokes or boring others with matters they don't know anything about. The same could apply to any minority or interest group. In the end, you are either interested in being part of the group, or you just ignore it. Bitching about it is pointless.

Considering my post wishing Dante well with his gaymer group was deleted (apparently that breaks the rules, perhaps for being nice), I will repeat that I wish the gaymer group well and hope they have a wonderful time.

#34 Posted by Turambar (6898 posts) -

@Inkerman said:

@Turambar said:

@Inkerman said:

@rebgav said:

@Inkerman: Starting a group with conditional participation is inherently not "open and free," so the distinction that you're making between excluding homophobes or excluding dicks is completely irrelevant. The argument is pointless.

No, all groups have certain conditions on being members (that's what groups are for), one of the most common conditions is "don't be a dick", or derivatives thereof. Placing conditions on sexuality (which is what this group does by implication if not explicitly) is not a common condition for joining a group, hence the controversy. The point is, we could have had a group, in which homophobia was prohibited (thereby protecting gay members from abuse) but straight members wouldn't have felt weird or out of place, and there would have been no controversy, instead, we have this.

Given the number of of responses coming from heterosexual members asking if they can join, I'd say that concern is wholly false.

Only if you can prove they're joining the group because it's a gay group, not because the group is probably not full of assholes.

Wouldn't the proof required be that people aren't joining because they find being in a "gay group" to be uncomfortable, and hence, be the burden of proof being on you? Why people are asking if they can join is rather irrelevant to the point you are attempting to make.

#35 Posted by Morrow (1823 posts) -

I think that's a great idea.

There is still a lot of hate and prejudice towards gay people, especially from heterosexual men. Not all gay men are confident enough to admit they're gay, so having a place or group of people where they can be themselves is important :)

#36 Edited by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

@MikeGosot said:

@Inkerman: It's not like people are always dicks to white people. The guy just wanted to create a group without homophobes and he stated that sexual orientation was never a barrier for entry. How can you say he is creating a group for gay people WHEN HE INVITES NON GAY PEOPLE? In the first line of his post, even. You're reading too much into this.

Because it was called "Gaymers", followed (perhaps unintentionally, granted) the news of the new convention aimed explicitly for gay gamers, and he pretty exlicitly stated it was a gay focused group. "This is a group for Gays, and maybe others" is not the same as saying "This is a group for people who aren't dicks" which may or may not have been what he wanted. The point is if the OP wanted to avoid homophobia (which is admittedly rampant on Xbox live and other open multiplayer services), there are better ways to do it, if the OP wanted to meet other gay people, there are better ways to do it.

#37 Posted by CJduke (800 posts) -

@Inkerman: Why are you fighting this so hard? It seems like you care WAY too much about this. They can call the group whatever they want, whoever wants to join it can join it, its a nice idea and its really not a big deal.

#38 Posted by NTM (7555 posts) -

@MikeGosot said:

@NTM said:

Wait... That was for Giantbomb? I thought it was some type of gaming convention.

@MikeGosot said:

Everyone is invited to the group, so sexuality doesn't really matter, but i think it' great to have a group where you can talk about what you like and be who you are without a bunch of motherfuckers pissing you off because of it. This is not segregation, it's more of a place without hate. And people really shouldn't care for sexuality, this shouldn't change jackshit in how you see a person, but people are dumb.

Yes, that's true, but why make a comment on sexuality in the first place than? Why not just say "Hey, everyone's invited! Talk about what you want." Or whatever? No one ever had to explicitly say something about sexuality, but they did, and that's why these things are even discussed.

Well, if you leave it too open, there are bound to be some assholes. Besides, by stating the whole sexuality thing, it may attract people that have the same interests as you, so you can have better conversations. This is no different from "Gaming Group for People who Like Cars" or "Anime Gaming Group" or whatever club or group with the same interests.

@Dagbiker said:

@NTM said:

Wait... That was for Giantbomb? I thought it was some type of gaming convention.

@MikeGosot said:

Everyone is invited to the group, so sexuality doesn't really matter, but i think it' great to have a group where you can talk about what you like and be who you are without a bunch of motherfuckers pissing you off because of it. This is not segregation, it's more of a place without hate. And people really shouldn't care for sexuality, this shouldn't change jackshit in how you see a person, but people are dumb.

Yes, that's true, but why make a comment on sexuality in the first place than? Why not just say "Hey, everyone's invited! Talk about what you want." Or whatever? No one ever had to explicitly say something about sexuality, but they did, and that's why these things are even discussed.

Because people have always hung out with people that think and act like them. The real question is, Why does it matter to you?

I know that, that wasn't my point. I was pretty much replying to the "Everyone is invited to the group, so sexuality doesn't really matter.]" comment above. And no, it doesn't matter to me much, I thought I'd reply to the comment anyways. My reply wasn't meant as negative, or to be read in a negative tone.

#39 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

I'm sure this has been said, but they're probably sick of "LOL YOUR GAY" and shit all the time and want people they can be themselves around.

Not interested myself but I can see where they're coming from

#40 Posted by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@Inkerman said:

@Turambar said:

@Inkerman said:

@rebgav said:

@Inkerman: Starting a group with conditional participation is inherently not "open and free," so the distinction that you're making between excluding homophobes or excluding dicks is completely irrelevant. The argument is pointless.

No, all groups have certain conditions on being members (that's what groups are for), one of the most common conditions is "don't be a dick", or derivatives thereof. Placing conditions on sexuality (which is what this group does by implication if not explicitly) is not a common condition for joining a group, hence the controversy. The point is, we could have had a group, in which homophobia was prohibited (thereby protecting gay members from abuse) but straight members wouldn't have felt weird or out of place, and there would have been no controversy, instead, we have this.

Given the number of of responses coming from heterosexual members asking if they can join, I'd say that concern is wholly false.

Only if you can prove they're joining the group because it's a gay group, not because the group is probably not full of assholes.

Wouldn't the proof required be that people aren't joining because they find being in a "gay group" to be uncomfortable, and hence, be the burden of proof being on you? Why people are asking if they can join is rather irrelevant to the point you are attempting to make.

Look at believer258's post above yours, he says he wouldn't want to join because he isn't gay, and would feel "out of place" even though he's for the group itself. I would as well, for exactly the same reason I wouldn't join my campus Black, Jewish, or other such organisations, even though I can.

#41 Posted by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

@the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:

@Inkerman said:

@rebgav said:

@Inkerman said:

The point is, we could have had a group, in which homophobia was prohibited (thereby protecting gay members from abuse) but straight members wouldn't have felt weird or out of place, and there would have been no controversy, instead, we have this.

You can have that group right now, just start it and organize it. Then you can make whatever rules you like and people who don't like your rules can choose not to join. It's almost too simple.

@MikeGosot:

Which is the point. If I posted a thread asking people to join a "White Gamers" group, where we'd talk about "White people's interests" etc, but then said non-white people can join, I would probably get a ton of negative response about being a racist and the thread itself would probably be locked and deleted from the get go (which is totally a good thing, as per the "don't be dick" rule), yet we have an almost completely identical thing here, and to question it is viewed as unacceptable.

The OP could have said, "hey guys I'm tired of getting shit on Xbox live from 12 year olds, and wanted to find some people to play with who aren't homophobes", problem solved. Instead he asked to create a group for gay people.

Theres a huge difference between "white people interests" and "gay people interest". Dont clump them together.

Is there? I personally consider race, religion, gender and sexuality to all be effectively on the same level (I honestly think the concept of people sharing interests because they're one thing or another absurd), and, at least to my knowledge, there aren't groups like that on Giantbomb that focus membership on any of those basis.

#42 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7100 posts) -

Oh this argument continues to be stupid. I'm really surprised this isn't locked yet.

#43 Edited by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

@CJduke said:

@Inkerman: Why are you fighting this so hard? It seems like you care WAY too much about this. They can call the group whatever they want, whoever wants to join it can join it, its a nice idea and its really not a big deal.

Because I like the community as it is, a bunch of gamers getting together and talking about video games together. Sure we have our PC gamers, our Xbox gamers and our PS3 gamers etc, and those within the community that also like Anime, comic books, movies etc, but we aren't broken down into seperate communities based on things like gender, race, religion and sexuality, because these things go to the core of people's identities. I would be fighting just as hard against this if it was someone starting a gaming "for blacks" or "for Hindus". I see it as exactly the same thing. Furthermore I don't like the implication (from a few people here) that because I'm not gay I can't object to the group and if I do I must be doing on a homophobic basis. As I said, if a race based group, even if it was 'open' to other members, was proposed here on Giantbomb, it would be shut down pretty quickly.

#44 Posted by Inkerman (1455 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Inkerman said:

he asked to create a group for gay people.

Which is fine.

SitRep: He isn't excluding anyone, his group isn't funded by your tax dollars - you're whining because you get off on it. That's fine too, you should make a group for that.

I don't think it is, and in case you didn't notice, the OP of this thread specifically started a discussion on this topic. I agreed with the OP, and posted why, people disagreed with me, but when I defend my opinion I'm whining? Tell me why don't you think I should post my opinion in a thread which specifically asks my opinion?

#45 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4284 posts) -
@Inkerman said:

@the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:

@Inkerman said:

@rebgav said:

@Inkerman said:

The point is, we could have had a group, in which homophobia was prohibited (thereby protecting gay members from abuse) but straight members wouldn't have felt weird or out of place, and there would have been no controversy, instead, we have this.

You can have that group right now, just start it and organize it. Then you can make whatever rules you like and people who don't like your rules can choose not to join. It's almost too simple.

@MikeGosot:

Which is the point. If I posted a thread asking people to join a "White Gamers" group, where we'd talk about "White people's interests" etc, but then said non-white people can join, I would probably get a ton of negative response about being a racist and the thread itself would probably be locked and deleted from the get go (which is totally a good thing, as per the "don't be dick" rule), yet we have an almost completely identical thing here, and to question it is viewed as unacceptable.

The OP could have said, "hey guys I'm tired of getting shit on Xbox live from 12 year olds, and wanted to find some people to play with who aren't homophobes", problem solved. Instead he asked to create a group for gay people.

Theres a huge difference between "white people interests" and "gay people interest". Dont clump them together.

Is there? I personally consider race, religion, gender and sexuality to all be effectively on the same level (I honestly think the concept of people sharing interests because they're one thing or another absurd), and, at least to my knowledge, there aren't groups like that on Giantbomb that focus membership on any of those basis.

This is still a specific interest though.  I dont get why youre against gay people wanting to have normal conversations where they might start talking about people theyre interested in and the conversation wouldnt be awkward as fuck.  
#46 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7100 posts) -

I love the irony of this thread though. "These darn gay people always takin' away my rights."

#47 Posted by sissylion (675 posts) -

@Riboflavin said:

@Inkerman: I mean, if you really want to pull off the stupid and out of place race analogy, do it right: what you are doing is comparable to saying black people can't gather together unless they explicitly name their convention something white people friendly. It's ridiculous, right? yes it is. Stop caring so much about this its just some goddamn forums anyway.

This person is correct. No black person who plays video games online has ever had to deal with disparaging comments targeted at their race.

#48 Edited by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

@Galiant: Because common interests=better social interactions? It's pretty basic. People associate with similar people.

So what's the name of-

Fucking hell I hate the community I am sort of a part of. I mean I love you, other gays. But I also hate you. Grow up a little. Lets just be gay people, not pushing all of our silly little terms just to stand out more when really, there's not much to make us stand out. I don't want to be a part of something with something like "gaymer" right up front. It's a tad bit insulting, because I'm not a gaymer. I'm a gamer, and I'm gay. I'm not a new breed of gamer.

It's basic human nature though. People seek similar people. The gay community in particular is known for being this way with one another.

It's like a gaming group for people who are into engineering. It has nothing to do with gaming, but gives them something to talk about. In a gay group for gay people, it encourages talk about things like "insert hot guy here" or "recommend gay lit here." And depending on the maturity you can even get into discussing sexuality, discussing things like first time experimentation and stuff that a group that wasn't tied together by homosexuality would probably not get into, and certainly not in the same way as a group centered around homosexuality.

@Inkerman said:

But do gay people have significantly different interests to straight people? It's kind of like saying all Black people like rap...

Yeah, they do. For one, a dude that likes chicks isn't going to want to discuss the hottest guy they've seen at any point, but he'll gladly talk about some girl in yoga pants. Gays talk about dudes. They talk about gay stuff. Their GAMING interests may not be different, and many of their interests may be similar, but there's enough there that they might want to have other gays to talk to about, like boys(or girls!) and experiences and things that heterosexuals wouldn't really have much to say about.

Honestly, I think people are reacting in pretty silly ways, it's like you guys are jealous of the group, or acting like every gay is suddenly going to want to be in the group and that it's created to keep the straights and gays apart. It's not. Maybe if it was "The group for giantbombers that want to discuss boys with other boys or girls with other girls, first experiences, etc" then you people would be less confused and bothered by the idea. Do you want to listen to me talk about how nice I think Daniel Craig looks like without a shirt on? Prolly not, and you almost certainly won't have much to say in response, other than "that's cool" or jokingly talking about how "haha I can see that," and then talking about something stupid like a "bro-boner" or something.

It's ok for people to not just be in a massive melting pot with everyone interacting with everyone. It's not like the gay group is getting free candy and you aren't, and it's not like you can't start an anime gaming group or writers gaming group (something I've been wanting to look into, actually) or whatever else you want to get some folks together so you can have people to discuss a particular thing together, and share some *insert thing here* jokes.

It's sorta like saying PAX shouldn't exist because it's an event for "gamers" and those gamers should just mingle with everyone else and be the exact same thing as them and blah blah blah. It makes no sense. If this was anything that wasn't politically charged (ie the Engineers Group) you wouldn't give a flying fuck. You really wouldn't, and ya probably know it.

#49 Posted by CJduke (800 posts) -

@Inkerman said:

@CJduke said:

@Inkerman: Why are you fighting this so hard? It seems like you care WAY too much about this. They can call the group whatever they want, whoever wants to join it can join it, its a nice idea and its really not a big deal.

Because I like the community as it is, a bunch of gamers getting together and talking about video games together. Sure we have our PC gamers, our Xbox gamers and our PS3 gamers etc, and those within the community that also like Anime, comic books, movies etc, but we aren't broken down into seperate communities based on things like gender, race, religion and sexuality, because these things go to the core of people's identities. I would be fighting just as hard against this if it was someone starting a gaming "for blacks" or "for Hindus". I see it as exactly the same thing. Furthermore I don't like the implication (from a few people here) that because I'm not gay I can't object to the group and if I do I must be doing on a homophobic basis. As I said, if a race based group, even if it was 'open' to other members, was proposed here on Giantbomb, it would be shut down pretty quickly.

But like others have already commented, race and sexual orientation are not the same thing at all so you can't even go there (just because you somehow consider race, religion, and sexual orientation to all be lumped together into one category doesn't mean thats how it works). Also, think about the reasons why this group makes sense. It is probably hard to find other people who are gay and maybe even harder to find people who are gay and like to play video games. Maybe the people in this group don't know many other gay people and want to find people they can talk to about whatever they want that are also gay and enjoy the same hobby. Maybe they want to meet each other, who knows. But clearly by advertising it to people who are gay, they would like to talk/meet/play games with other gay people. Its the same reason their are LGBT groups, and gay night clubs. There are lots of straight people in the world, not as many gay people. This is just another way people of the same sexual orientation and interests can meet up. Also, straight people are not excluded from any of these things. Gay clubs don't have a bouncer at the door that determines whether you are gay or not before you go in. You can join/go to any of these things if you want to, whether to show support or be with a friend. Even things like a church are similar. We have specific churches for specific religions, but that doesn't prohibit anyone who is a different religion from going inside. The whole "segregation" argument is total bullshit because its not true. There are plenty of groups out there for different people. The point of groups is to find people with common interests or who you can relate to so you can meet new friends, gaming buddies, sexual partners, whatever it may be. It doesn't change the community "being a bunch of gamers getting together and talking about games together" at all, it just broadens it, adding more people to it. Anyone can join any gaming group at any time, you aren't being excluded from anything. To say we aren't broken down into separate communities is somewhat true, but what makes the world awesome is that people are different. We come from different parts of the world, have different families, different backgrounds, and different interests. People like to meet people who are different from them and who are the same as them. There are groups to meet people who are different and to meet people who are similar. I just don't see how a group made for gay gamers is at all ruining the community for you or excluding you from anything.

#50 Posted by leebmx (2235 posts) -

@MordeaniisChaos said:

@Galiant: Because common interests=better social interactions? It's pretty basic. People associate with similar people.

On top of that, Giantbomb has had some rough bullshit from the Mods locking things for silly reasons like "YO DON'T DISCUSS THE GAYS" even when you're just posting a thread curious about other open homosexuals on the site or what have you.

So what's the name of-

Fucking hell I hate the community I am sort of a part of. I mean I love you, other gays. But I also hate you. Grow up a little. Lets just be gay people, not pushing all of our silly little terms just to stand out more when really, there's not much to make us stand out. I don't want to be a part of something with something like "gaymer" right up front. It's a tad bit insulting, because I'm not a gaymer. I'm a gamer, and I'm gay. I'm not a new breed of gamer.

It's basic human nature though. People seek similar people. The gay community in particular is known for being this way with one another.

It's like a gaming group for people who are into engineering. It has nothing to do with gaming, but gives them something to talk about. In a gay group for gay people, it encourages talk about things like "insert hot guy here" or "recommend gay lit here." And depending on the maturity you can even get into discussing sexuality, discussing things like first time experimentation and stuff that a group that wasn't tied together by homosexuality would probably not get into, and certainly not in the same way as a group centered around homosexuality.

@Inkerman said:

But do gay people have significantly different interests to straight people? It's kind of like saying all Black people like rap...

Yeah, they do. For one, a dude that likes chicks isn't going to want to discuss the hottest guy they've seen at any point, but he'll gladly talk about some girl in yoga pants. Gays talk about dudes. They talk about gay stuff. Their GAMING interests may not be different, and many of their interests may be similar, but there's enough there that they might want to have other gays to talk to about, like boys(or girls!) and experiences and things that heterosexuals wouldn't really have much to say about.

Honestly, I think people are reacting in pretty silly ways, it's like you guys are jealous of the group, or acting like every gay is suddenly going to want to be in the group and that it's created to keep the straights and gays apart. It's not. Maybe if it was "The group for giantbombers that want to discuss boys with other boys or girls with other girls, first experiences, etc" then you people would be less confused and bothered by the idea. Do you want to listen to me talk about how nice I think Daniel Craig looks like without a shirt on? Prolly not, and you almost certainly won't have much to say in response, other than "that's cool" or jokingly talking about how "haha I can see that," and then talking about something stupid like a "bro-boner" or something.

It's ok for people to not just be in a massive melting pot with everyone interacting with everyone. It's not like the gay group is getting free candy and you aren't, and it's not like you can't start an anime gaming group or writers gaming group (something I've been wanting to look into, actually) or whatever else you want to get some folks together so you can have people to discuss a particular thing together, and share some *insert thing here* jokes.

It's sorta like saying PAX shouldn't exist because it's an event for "gamers" and those gamers should just mingle with everyone else and be the exact same thing as them and blah blah blah. It makes no sense. If this was anything that wasn't politically charged (ie the Engineers Group) you wouldn't give a flying fuck. You really wouldn't, and ya probably know it.

Pretty much this. Because people with similar interests enjoy hanging out together as they have stuff in common. No one needs to be threatened.