So how was Diablo III not even mentioned during the GOTY podcast?

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kishinfoulux

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#1  Edited By kishinfoulux

Specifically the actual discussion for GOTY. I don't want this to turn into "derp Diablo III sucks", but I mean the game got a perfect score on the site and wasn't even on that huge list of games that was eventually cut into the top ten. Did they just legitimately forget about it or what? That doesn't seem plausible. Rubs me the wrong way honestly. Let me emphasis I'm not saying it should've have won, or made the top ten, but it SHOULD have been mentioned, at the very least. They all seemed to enjoy it, which makes it even more bizarre. I know it was earlier in the year, but so was a lot of stuff on that list.

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MezZa

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#2  Edited By MezZa

Guess they've cooled on it too much since it came out. Haven't listened to all the podcasts yet, but I'm surprised if it really didn't get mentioned at all. I recently went back to it and am enjoying what blizzard's done with it so far, despite the actual content still being very repetitive. Maybe it'll be mentioned for 2013's 2012 game.

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Captain_Insano

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#3  Edited By Captain_Insano

Was it on any of their individual top 10 lists?

Other 'big' games that reviewed well also barely got a mention. I thought Max Payne 3 (which I really enjoyed) would crack into a couple of top 10 lists. Borderlands 2 (which admittedly Jeff was cool on and he is the only one likely to have played it) also didn't get a go.

Just seems that there were a number of games that engendered feelings of indifference. I doubt that they forgot, but they weren't significant enough to stand out in any meaningful way.

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Cold_Wolven

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#4  Edited By Cold_Wolven

It is a bummer that there is no discussion at all for the game in the final podcast, a lot of arguing for ZombiU (which imo should never have made the list) but not a single peep for Diablo 3 which I find to be a great game.

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nomorehalfmeasuresdoctor

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I have not listened to the podcasts yet but the game was unbalanced class wise and gameplay wise. It didn't launch with pvp. The story and dialogue were laughable and poor. With all that being said I still spent 5 months of my life playing that game non stop ( fuck me) . It seems like a lot of people will really like a game when it first comes out and but than backtrack when they see their peers talk about faults with the game that they apparently didn't see at first ( or failed to recognize at the time). It's not uncommon with people not in the the industry or sorry children. You would really expect grown adults to stick by the things they like while admitting they have faults instead of things being the best thing ever bar none or the worst thing ever.

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posttimeskipsam

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#6  Edited By posttimeskipsam

I'm pretty sure all the GOTY choices are from their personal lists. So that's why it probably wasn't mentioned. Also during Day 04, Diablo 3 was brought up during Best Multiplayer.

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MariachiMacabre

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#7  Edited By MariachiMacabre

It would have been on mine but the lack of sustainability as well as the still-missing PVP really cooled me on that game (not to mention the abysmal launch). I still love it but I feel as though it doesn't love me back. I'm guessing the guys kind lost interest pretty quickly.

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Justin258

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#8  Edited By Justin258

They mentioned Torchlight 2 at some point during these GOTY podcasts as well as Borderlands 2 and wrote them both off very, very quickly without any opposition.

It's not that they disliked it, it's just that they obviously thought it paled in comparison to some other games. No, I haven't played Diablo 3, but does it do anything particularly special besides being a pretty good ARPG? I mean, it's still Diablo, you're still clicking madly on everything on screen and then finding your favorite new pair of +5 trousers out of the pile of wrinkled old ones, aren't you? Everything on their GOTY list had a reason for being there, everything had something to contribute to gaming as a whole, but Diablo 3, as it appears to me, is just another ARPG that's been done before and, if not for the name, would probably have disappeared pretty quickly.

EDIT: Completely off-topic - Jesus, I use a lot of commas.

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impartialgecko

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#9  Edited By impartialgecko

Even if someone had made a case for it, the vibe of the list this year was "New experiences, new ideas". Someone would have taken it to task for that.

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Sidoran

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#10  Edited By Sidoran

I get the impression that they no longer care about games that offer a similar experience to what they've seen in the past. They mostly seem interested in games that offer completely new experiences, games that change the way they think about games overall and games that are just plain dumb stupid silly fun.

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EXTomar

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#11  Edited By EXTomar

Games like Diablo 3 are a bit hard to categorize let alone "fight for".

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living4theday258

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#12  Edited By living4theday258

@Captain_Insano: I think it was on drews top ten

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Voxus

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#13  Edited By Voxus

D3 was mentioned by Jeff during Day 4 I believe.

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ThePaleKing

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#14  Edited By ThePaleKing

It got some defense during the Best Classic Revival. A lot of the choices this year seemed to be based around games that did things new for the medium (TWD, Journey, or did things to improve the genre they belonged to (Sleeping Dogs, Far Cry 3); Diablo might have been a competent game, but it was still just another Diablo game. Not to mention Brad was the only who was really hot on it, and it's possible he just liked other games more than it.

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BisonHero

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#15  Edited By BisonHero

@MariachiMacabre said:

It would have been on mine but the lack of sustainability as well as the still-missing PVP

I decided to not buy Diablo III, but holy fuck, I assumed that they must've added PvP sometime in the fall and I just hadn't heard about it because who the fuck was still talking about Diablo 3 after about August. How in the hell is that still not in the game?

I know they've kept saying PvP will be patched in, but at this point, do you think they'll just wait and make it a "new feature" for the inevitable expansion?

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Svenzon

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#16  Edited By Svenzon

I remember them all saying good things about for the first two weeks after release, then nothing. I guess that like everyone else they got burnt out on it quickly.

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#17  Edited By Xeirus

@BisonHero said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

It would have been on mine but the lack of sustainability as well as the still-missing PVP

I decided to not buy Diablo III, but holy fuck, I assumed that they must've added PvP sometime in the fall and I just hadn't heard about it because who the fuck was still talking about Diablo 3 after about August. How in the hell is that still not in the game?

I know they've kept saying PvP will be patched in, but at this point, do you think they'll just wait and make it a "new feature" for the inevitable expansion?

As much as I liked D3 (I really liked it) they shouldn't even bother putting in PVP at this point. NO ONE is playing D3 anymore, it's all bots.

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granderojo

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#18  Edited By granderojo

Diablo III was underwhelming, for as big as those first two games were, it just didn't play for me in 2012. I would rather have spent my time with other games.

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fox01313

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#19  Edited By fox01313

True odd they didn't mention it but between D3 (which despite feeling like a partial game after release, it's a shiny sequel to a game years old) & Torchlight, both are fun but there are better games out there for being a game of the year. Since we were not in on the process of seeing them go through all the games of 2012 to fill the 2 dozen initial list of the bombcast of their picks, it might have had more life in that early discussion. With everyone doing their own top 10 lists, it's easy for the staff & friends to individually put it on their list of games of the year.

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Vinny_Says

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#20  Edited By Vinny_Says

Whatever your opinion might be about Diablo 3, the staff was raving about how awesome that game was for multiple podcasts (plus the perfect score thing) and then when GOTY came around it was mentionned only once when Jeff said he would rather play Diablo 3 alone.

It's weird for sure.

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zombie2011

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#21  Edited By zombie2011

@BisonHero said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

It would have been on mine but the lack of sustainability as well as the still-missing PVP

I decided to not buy Diablo III, but holy fuck, I assumed that they must've added PvP sometime in the fall and I just hadn't heard about it because who the fuck was still talking about Diablo 3 after about August. How in the hell is that still not in the game?

I know they've kept saying PvP will be patched in, but at this point, do you think they'll just wait and make it a "new feature" for the inevitable expansion?

It's extremely hard to do PvP in these games. They could just put it in pretty simply but it's the balance that is the issue. If they don't release it gamers complain, if they do release it with balance issues gamers complain.

Blizzard can't win no matter what.

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Hailinel

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#22  Edited By Hailinel

@MariachiMacabre said:

It would have been on mine but the lack of sustainability as well as the still-missing PVP really cooled me on that game (not to mention the abysmal launch). I still love it but I feel as though it doesn't love me back. I'm guessing the guys kind lost interest pretty quickly.

The PVP still isn't in there?

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Rowr

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#23  Edited By Rowr

Because although it seemed pretty great coming out of the gate, in retrospect it was a steaming pile of shit that generally left a bad taste in peoples mouths.

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Kidavenger

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#24  Edited By Kidavenger

Any GOTY list that includes Mass Effect 3 and ignores Diablo 3 has major problems; both games had issues, but there is no way anyone could reasonably argue that ME3 was better than D3.

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MstrMnyBgs

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#25  Edited By MstrMnyBgs

@Kidavenger said:

Any GOTY list that includes Mass Effect 3 and ignores Diablo 3 has major problems; both games had issues, but there is no way anyone could reasonably argue that ME3 was better than D3.

Sure you could. Diablo 3 is has worse story, worse characters, worse graphics, and I would even argue worse gameplay and worse multiplayer but that is a subjective opinion. Not to mention D3 is nothing but a grindfest after you beat the short story.

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Phatmac

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#26  Edited By Phatmac

It's surprising since Brad seems to be a Blizzard fan.

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deathbyyeti

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#27  Edited By deathbyyeti

Because better games came out

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chilibean_3

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#28  Edited By chilibean_3

They didn't forget about Diablo or any other game you want to talk about. They just didn't feel it was worthy of any of the awards and didn't make any individual top ten. It was also mentioned on day 4.

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Shortbreadtom

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#29  Edited By Shortbreadtom

By the way, 5 stars is not a perfect score. The more granular the scoring system, the truer that statement becomes. A 10 out of 10 is rarely the same as a 5 out of 5.

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MariachiMacabre

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#30  Edited By MariachiMacabre
@zombie2011

@BisonHero said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

It would have been on mine but the lack of sustainability as well as the still-missing PVP

I decided to not buy Diablo III, but holy fuck, I assumed that they must've added PvP sometime in the fall and I just hadn't heard about it because who the fuck was still talking about Diablo 3 after about August. How in the hell is that still not in the game?

I know they've kept saying PvP will be patched in, but at this point, do you think they'll just wait and make it a "new feature" for the inevitable expansion?

It's extremely hard to do PvP in these games. They could just put it in pretty simply but it's the balance that is the issue. If they don't release it gamers complain, if they do release it with balance issues gamers complain.

Blizzard can't win no matter what.

That argument was my argument 7 months ago when the game released. Now it's 2 days to 2013 and the promised PVP STILL isn't in the game so said argument no longer flies for me. They promised PVP, the game was in development for a good long while and now the community is basically dead and PVP has not surfaced. The game's community probably would have lasted much longer if the PVP were implemented when promised. I love Diablo 3, but they shot themselves in the foot here and I'm tired of hearing their excuses for why.
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#31  Edited By StarvingGamer

It's easy to forget about a game as mechanics-driven as D3.

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#32  Edited By hughesman

Yep, kinda crazy how something people waited so long for and talked about so much can be forgotten so quickly. After, what, a decade of waiting for Diablo 3 were gonna talk about frog fractions instead. :)

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BisonHero

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#33  Edited By BisonHero

@MariachiMacabre said:

@zombie2011

@BisonHero said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

It would have been on mine but the lack of sustainability as well as the still-missing PVP

I decided to not buy Diablo III, but holy fuck, I assumed that they must've added PvP sometime in the fall and I just hadn't heard about it because who the fuck was still talking about Diablo 3 after about August. How in the hell is that still not in the game?

I know they've kept saying PvP will be patched in, but at this point, do you think they'll just wait and make it a "new feature" for the inevitable expansion?

It's extremely hard to do PvP in these games. They could just put it in pretty simply but it's the balance that is the issue. If they don't release it gamers complain, if they do release it with balance issues gamers complain.

Blizzard can't win no matter what.

That argument was my argument 7 months ago when the game released. Now it's 2 days to 2013 and the promised PVP STILL isn't in the game so said argument no longer flies for me. They promised PVP, the game was in development for a good long while and now the community is basically dead and PVP has not surfaced. The game's community probably would have lasted much longer if the PVP were implemented when promised. I love Diablo 3, but they shot themselves in the foot here and I'm tired of hearing their excuses for why.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking. Like, one of the complaints about D3 is that there's not a very interesting endgame, and PvP obviously would've filled that role if they actually could've patched it in within the first, say, 2-4 months. But they've let it languish for so long, it seems like their only chance is to push it off until the expansion, and hopefully the release of expansion + PvP in one fell swoop will be enough to coax a lot of the community back into playing the game.

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gamefreak9

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#34  Edited By gamefreak9

@believer258 said:

Everything on their GOTY list had a reason for being there, everything had something to contribute to gaming as a whole, but Diablo 3, as it appears to me, is just another ARPG that's been done before and, if not for the name, would probably have disappeared pretty quickly.

this is false, but I don't blame you for thinking this way since you haven't played it. Diablo had perhaps the most innovative mechanic for ARPG's done since the last diablo came out. Blizzard is writing the book for all the best approaches you can take with ARPG customization and then others are just leeching off their innovations. I've tried every skill in the game, that's a statement you can't make with other RPG's unless they are MUCH more shallow or you've spent *5 the time you spent playing diablo. Also its a game that very properly rewards skill, my first run of Dark Souls took me about 80 hours, my second run about 50, getting my first char to Chapter 3 inferno on Diablo took over 100 hours but my second char was there in 40, my third in 20. This is not the case with other ARPG's which are just time sinks that don't properly allow progress with skill, this isn't about speed runs either, this is about finishing all the content more efficiently.

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kishinfoulux

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#35  Edited By kishinfoulux

Again I must emphasize I'm not bitching it didn't make top ten or anything like that. But it just straight up vanished during the final GOTY talks. A perfect score game shouldn't NOT be mentioned during something like that.

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Hailinel

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#36  Edited By Hailinel

@gamefreak9 said:

@believer258 said:

Everything on their GOTY list had a reason for being there, everything had something to contribute to gaming as a whole, but Diablo 3, as it appears to me, is just another ARPG that's been done before and, if not for the name, would probably have disappeared pretty quickly.

this is false, but I don't blame you for thinking this way since you haven't played it. Diablo had perhaps the most innovative mechanic for ARPG's done since the last diablo came out. Blizzard is writing the book for all the best approaches you can take with ARPG customization and then others are just leeching off their innovations. I've tried every skill in the game, that's a statement you can't make with other RPG's unless they are MUCH more shallow or you've spent *5 the time you spent playing diablo. Also its a game that very properly rewards skill, my first run of Dark Souls took me about 80 hours, my second run about 50, getting my first char to Chapter 3 inferno on Diablo took over 100 hours but my second char was there in 40, my third in 20. This is not the case with other ARPG's which are just time sinks that don't properly allow progress with skill, this isn't about speed runs either, this is about finishing all the content more efficiently.

And that is...?

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Kidavenger

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#37  Edited By Kidavenger

@MstrMnyBgs said:

worse characters

No Caption Provided
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GreggD

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#38  Edited By GreggD

@Kidavenger: One character counter-argument, fantastic.

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Deusx

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#39  Edited By Deusx

You know the answer to this. There was a lot of drama surrounding Diablo 3 and it's shortcomings. The crew obviously thought about it but none of them thought it was worthy of a nomination. I don't think it is.

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gamefreak9

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#40  Edited By gamefreak9

@Hailinel said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@believer258 said:

Everything on their GOTY list had a reason for being there, everything had something to contribute to gaming as a whole, but Diablo 3, as it appears to me, is just another ARPG that's been done before and, if not for the name, would probably have disappeared pretty quickly.

this is false, but I don't blame you for thinking this way since you haven't played it. Diablo had perhaps the most innovative mechanic for ARPG's done since the last diablo came out. Blizzard is writing the book for all the best approaches you can take with ARPG customization and then others are just leeching off their innovations. I've tried every skill in the game, that's a statement you can't make with other RPG's unless they are MUCH more shallow or you've spent *5 the time you spent playing diablo. Also its a game that very properly rewards skill, my first run of Dark Souls took me about 80 hours, my second run about 50, getting my first char to Chapter 3 inferno on Diablo took over 100 hours but my second char was there in 40, my third in 20. This is not the case with other ARPG's which are just time sinks that don't properly allow progress with skill, this isn't about speed runs either, this is about finishing all the content more efficiently.

And that is...?

The skill system that encourages experimentation?

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gamefreak9

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#41  Edited By gamefreak9

@GreggD said:

@Kidavenger: One character counter-argument, fantastic.

counter arguments are only neccessary when when there is an argument. Saying something is the "worse" is fine but calling it an argument is moronic.

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Kidavenger

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#42  Edited By Kidavenger

@GreggD: Hey I gave one, why don't you make the same complaint to the guy I was responding to?

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Justin258

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#43  Edited By Justin258

@gamefreak9 said:

@Hailinel said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@believer258 said:

Everything on their GOTY list had a reason for being there, everything had something to contribute to gaming as a whole, but Diablo 3, as it appears to me, is just another ARPG that's been done before and, if not for the name, would probably have disappeared pretty quickly.

this is false, but I don't blame you for thinking this way since you haven't played it. Diablo had perhaps the most innovative mechanic for ARPG's done since the last diablo came out. Blizzard is writing the book for all the best approaches you can take with ARPG customization and then others are just leeching off their innovations. I've tried every skill in the game, that's a statement you can't make with other RPG's unless they are MUCH more shallow or you've spent *5 the time you spent playing diablo. Also its a game that very properly rewards skill, my first run of Dark Souls took me about 80 hours, my second run about 50, getting my first char to Chapter 3 inferno on Diablo took over 100 hours but my second char was there in 40, my third in 20. This is not the case with other ARPG's which are just time sinks that don't properly allow progress with skill, this isn't about speed runs either, this is about finishing all the content more efficiently.

And that is...?

The skill system that encourages experimentation?

Explain better. I just finished Torchlight 2 and it seems like it does everything you've mentioned, and for $40 less and without any sort of "Auction House".

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MariachiMacabre

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#44  Edited By MariachiMacabre
@GreggD

@Kidavenger: One character counter-argument, fantastic.

Even as a fan of Diablo, saying that Mass Effect 3 has worse characters than the paper-thin cliches-that-talk in Diablo 3 is just crazy. Yeah, Chobot shouldn't be in there but she doesn't negate Mordin, Legion, Wrex, or any of the other characters that made Mass Effect one of the best franchises of the generation.
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gamefreak9

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#45  Edited By gamefreak9

@believer258 said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@Hailinel said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@believer258 said:

Everything on their GOTY list had a reason for being there, everything had something to contribute to gaming as a whole, but Diablo 3, as it appears to me, is just another ARPG that's been done before and, if not for the name, would probably have disappeared pretty quickly.

this is false, but I don't blame you for thinking this way since you haven't played it. Diablo had perhaps the most innovative mechanic for ARPG's done since the last diablo came out. Blizzard is writing the book for all the best approaches you can take with ARPG customization and then others are just leeching off their innovations. I've tried every skill in the game, that's a statement you can't make with other RPG's unless they are MUCH more shallow or you've spent *5 the time you spent playing diablo. Also its a game that very properly rewards skill, my first run of Dark Souls took me about 80 hours, my second run about 50, getting my first char to Chapter 3 inferno on Diablo took over 100 hours but my second char was there in 40, my third in 20. This is not the case with other ARPG's which are just time sinks that don't properly allow progress with skill, this isn't about speed runs either, this is about finishing all the content more efficiently.

And that is...?

The skill system that encourages experimentation?

Explain better. I just finished Torchlight 2 and it seems like it does everything you've mentioned, and for $40 less and without any sort of "Auction House".

So you've tried the every skill at its maxed capacity on one character? Nope you can only respec the last 3 skills(unless you do the cheap console trick which isn't really something the designers encourage). Seeing every skill isn't the same as having it used in its best possible form. I can log into diablo today and be like, what do I want to use? If you log into torchlight, you have to ask, what can this character use? Do I feel like this playstyle? or must I sink 40 hours more into easy content on the same class to unlock that other one, not to mention that the balance is inevitably not as good so that there are cookie cutter builds. Whilst even when watching Diablo 3 pros play they all seem to have different builds.

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Hailinel

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#46  Edited By Hailinel

@gamefreak9 said:

@believer258 said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@Hailinel said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@believer258 said:

Everything on their GOTY list had a reason for being there, everything had something to contribute to gaming as a whole, but Diablo 3, as it appears to me, is just another ARPG that's been done before and, if not for the name, would probably have disappeared pretty quickly.

this is false, but I don't blame you for thinking this way since you haven't played it. Diablo had perhaps the most innovative mechanic for ARPG's done since the last diablo came out. Blizzard is writing the book for all the best approaches you can take with ARPG customization and then others are just leeching off their innovations. I've tried every skill in the game, that's a statement you can't make with other RPG's unless they are MUCH more shallow or you've spent *5 the time you spent playing diablo. Also its a game that very properly rewards skill, my first run of Dark Souls took me about 80 hours, my second run about 50, getting my first char to Chapter 3 inferno on Diablo took over 100 hours but my second char was there in 40, my third in 20. This is not the case with other ARPG's which are just time sinks that don't properly allow progress with skill, this isn't about speed runs either, this is about finishing all the content more efficiently.

And that is...?

The skill system that encourages experimentation?

Explain better. I just finished Torchlight 2 and it seems like it does everything you've mentioned, and for $40 less and without any sort of "Auction House".

So you've tried the every skill at its maxed capacity on one character? Nope you can only respec the last 3 skills(unless you do the cheap console trick which isn't really something the designers encourage). Seeing every skill isn't the same as having it used in its best possible form. I can log into diablo today and be like, what do I want to use? If you log into torchlight, you have to ask, what can this character use? Do I feel like this playstyle? or must I sink 40 hours more into easy content on the same class to unlock that other one, not to mention that the balance is inevitably not as good so that there are cookie cutter builds. Whilst even when watching Diablo 3 pros play they all seem to have different builds.

That's really not innovation.

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Justin258

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#47  Edited By Justin258
@Hailinel

@gamefreak9 said:

@believer258 said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@Hailinel said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@believer258 said:

Everything on their GOTY list had a reason for being there, everything had something to contribute to gaming as a whole, but Diablo 3, as it appears to me, is just another ARPG that's been done before and, if not for the name, would probably have disappeared pretty quickly.

this is false, but I don't blame you for thinking this way since you haven't played it. Diablo had perhaps the most innovative mechanic for ARPG's done since the last diablo came out. Blizzard is writing the book for all the best approaches you can take with ARPG customization and then others are just leeching off their innovations. I've tried every skill in the game, that's a statement you can't make with other RPG's unless they are MUCH more shallow or you've spent *5 the time you spent playing diablo. Also its a game that very properly rewards skill, my first run of Dark Souls took me about 80 hours, my second run about 50, getting my first char to Chapter 3 inferno on Diablo took over 100 hours but my second char was there in 40, my third in 20. This is not the case with other ARPG's which are just time sinks that don't properly allow progress with skill, this isn't about speed runs either, this is about finishing all the content more efficiently.

And that is...?

The skill system that encourages experimentation?

Explain better. I just finished Torchlight 2 and it seems like it does everything you've mentioned, and for $40 less and without any sort of "Auction House".

So you've tried the every skill at its maxed capacity on one character? Nope you can only respec the last 3 skills(unless you do the cheap console trick which isn't really something the designers encourage). Seeing every skill isn't the same as having it used in its best possible form. I can log into diablo today and be like, what do I want to use? If you log into torchlight, you have to ask, what can this character use? Do I feel like this playstyle? or must I sink 40 hours more into easy content on the same class to unlock that other one, not to mention that the balance is inevitably not as good so that there are cookie cutter builds. Whilst even when watching Diablo 3 pros play they all seem to have different builds.

That's really not innovation.

I agree. Actually, I think it sounds kind of cheap. You can suddenly rebuild your character?
You could also do that in Amalur.
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#48  Edited By gamefreak9

@believer258: yeah but Amalur had MUCH less skills. (and I think you had to pay? I don't remember) Its cheap, by definition, they are removing switching costs. You don't have to decide whether you like it or not, but it accomplishes experimentation, probably more so than any other RPG, now if it isn't an ideal way to do it isn't really what you need to decide, you can now analyze its framework and maybe understand what clicks and what doesn't to try and make people experiment and feel invested in characters(If you think loot is not sufficient). Its still a landmark on what can be achieved within the RPG framework.

@Hailinel: then you have a very narrow view of what innovation is. Innovation is many things not just radical innovation, though if you don't label Diablo innovative, I would not label most of the this years titles innovative... its mostly just aggregation.

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#49  Edited By fisher81

@kishinfoulux said:

Did they just legitimately forget about it or what? That doesn't seem plausible. Rubs me the wrong way honestly.

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#50  Edited By Hailinel

@gamefreak9: It's not innovation, though. If anything it's iteration or evolution. Diablo III isn't somehow changing the way that games are played by opening the character customization mechanic to reassign skills at will.