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#151 Edited by AssInAss (2552 posts) -

@milkman said:

A message to everyone saying the site has "changed."

Thank you for this. Now off to watch this and smile and laugh without ever coming back in this thread.

#152 Posted by atomic_dumpling (2462 posts) -

Yeah well, we can debate this amongst ourselves for eternity -- the staff likely won't read any of this.

#153 Posted by Baal_Sagoth (1238 posts) -

Very interesting thread. Good to see that it led to a fair amount of well-thought-out criticism and discussion. I have a hard time putting my own lack of enthusiasm for the site into coherent thoughts as of yet but I know it's a factor. For the first time since Arrow Pointing Down I find myself just not caring about a surprising amount of GB content. It's hard to pinpoint exact reasons so far but there a few gripes that just tend to pile up over time.

Too much chasing of fleeting social media hypes, a lack of diversity in the dicussion of games (when the crew is just trashing games and nobody stands up for a dissenting opinion), a move away from nerdy-as-all-hell niche game coverage towards indie darlings and iOS stuff and a tendency to immediately characterize critical and dissenting users as trolls/ haters/ contrarians/ sexists/ mysoginists etc. The most disheartening thing from my perspective is that there's a growing userbase that seems to absolutely love that shit. Which is fair enough of course but leads me to believe that the site might just not be for me any longer.

Still, compared to most other gaming sites GB has a good thing going and I absolutely hope for the best. I still like more content on here than on any other professional gaming site (what other big website would give Drew his glorious platform after all!?). GB just dropped a fair bit from the initial "this is too fucking good to be true" status - but we all know how that attempt turned out. I might just need a good long break or risk actually becoming a hater due to being overexposed.

#154 Posted by EnduranceFun (1114 posts) -

I was going to quote/reply/point out all the people whose criticisms I agreed with, but that got to be too much around halfway down the first page. As far as my personal opinions are concerned, about 90% of the critical posts in this thread resonated with me.

Hell, I'm so out of it right now (it's late!) that I'm not even sure how to eloquently close out this post. Most of the criticisms were spot-on as far as I'm concerned, and people trying to defend the staff or saying "just don't come to the site anymore then!" aren't really helping their case at all; that's always been such a lazy answer to an argument. It basically says "I don't have any rebuttal but I'm not going to concede." The reason so many of us passionately critique, criticize, and offer suggestions for Giant Bomb is because we care about the site and its future. As a few people pointed out, it does feel like we've gone through this cycle every 6-8 months starting way back in 2010. GB hits a hard slump; community gets restless and vocal; GB shows new life and changes/adds a new feature or two; GB seems like it's back on the rise to the golden age of 2009 for a bit; the consistency of the feature slowly fades out; GB feels lacking and crew seems tired/jaded; GB hits a hard slump; etc., ad nauseam. It's mildly depressing to see this cycle continue to repeat itself. I'm sure at the end of August/middle of September we'll be having this same conversation as most members come up on their yearly memberships ending again.

Fuck, guys. Remember the Sausalito basement? The dudes all seemed so genuinely happy then. They'd look for any excuse to pull out a handheld camera and shoot 5 minute videos. They'd make mailbags out of just getting a few energy drinks and foreign candy, and even had mailbags where they opened things from publishers. Now it seems like we average about a mailbag a month, and it's only when they get something either impressive or insane. I'm sure they're probably sick of getting repeat candy and drinks all the time, but that little bit of community outreach goes a long way. I don't really have time to catch the live shows anymore so I'm not sure if anything goes on there, but from what I've gathered they don't even play games with the community on TNT anymore. It seems like as GB becomes a bigger business, they've also become much more distant. Back when the site launched, there was that feeling that we were all coming together to make something great.

I think maybe that's why a lot of people are turning to youtube and twitch for their video game personalities now; it still has the feeling of being in it together. I feel like, as Giant Bomb has continued to grow, they've lost sight of what made their community so loyal in the first place.

I totally agree, man.

#155 Edited by Kohe321 (3523 posts) -
#156 Posted by Matt_F606 (297 posts) -

Wow, the guys go away for one week and we get this thread. :-)

#157 Posted by leebmx (2228 posts) -

I wish all the people saying how shit this site has got and how much they hate Patrick etc etc would actually fuck off if its really that bad. The fact that they don't is because this is no contest the best videogame site on the web by miles. Only Rock Paper Shotgun can even see it off it the distance.

It has been proved time and again that the guys are putting out as much content as they ever used to and it is full of consistently excellent moments. Fuck me, they are even broadcasting from their homes so they can produce extra content.

I agree the guys have been unenthusiastic about games over the last year but that's because it has been one of most mediocre years in gaming for a long time. I don't get what people expect them to do, laugh and grin like Disney store employees about games they don't like. As long as they have something insightful, interesting and humourous to say about games, and they do, I don't care if they are shitting on every game out there.

Sorry if this is a bit harsh but some people on this site just need to get a bit of perspective and be thankful for a lot of the great moments and content this site has provided. Its great to suggest things that you would like to see or improvements you would like to be made, but there is a lot of self-absorbed whining going on.

Threads like this in a week full of interviews and an extra 2.5hour podcast on top of the normal one to come.

#158 Edited by TheSouthernDandy (3807 posts) -

Weird to see a thread like this right now I was just thinking the other week they seem to pushing out more content then they have in a while. I guess some of these complaints might be valid I'm not gonna say all the people complaining are wrong for how they feel but I feel pretty great about where the site is at. That's why they keep getting my money. I think maybe some more community based stuff would be cool, Question of the Week could be pretty terrible sometimes and wasn't always supported but it was cool to have community stuff featured so front and center.

#159 Edited by leebmx (2228 posts) -

My interests actually fall frustratingly close to Patrick's, but with him it seems wholly conspicuous and grasping.

Or maybe he just likes the same stuff as you? Why would he pretend to like loads of stuff he doesn't, that's a crazy thing to say. Whatever you think about Patrick he is as genuine and enthusiastic as they come.

I think what you saidabove is such an extraordinarily insulting thing to say about someone. To disagree with someone's opinions is fine but saying someone's whole personality is a fraud, especially when its based on no evidence at all, is kind of low I think.

#160 Edited by Anund (876 posts) -

I think, for me, the main problem is the guys are just getting too jaded and negative. Often they never give a game a chance, they will judge it before they have even seen it. A recent example is the upcoming Army of Two game. In the latest podcast they admitted to not even seeing the game, yet concluded that the world would basically be a better place if that game was never released. I'm sorry but that is bullshit. Am I supposed to trust any content in regards to this game now, from this site? Similarly, the recent Walking Dead game. They came in to that quicklook having read on other sites that the game was bad, then they went through it just looking for things to complain about. Even the things they did like were brushed away to fit their original, unfounded opinion. The game may well be bad. But I can't tell from that piece of content, because all they were doing were talking about other stuff, they didn't focus on the game at all except to ridicule it, they basically never gave it any sort of fair chance.

That is not the kind of cynical and jaded "reporting" I come to this site for and this is why I only truly enjoy content from Vinny, Dave and Drew lately. They at least seem to have fun playing games still.

Also, Patrick is not the problem, except that he is trying to be Jeff too much.

#161 Posted by djou (863 posts) -

@marokai said:

"I still would like to know what the hell occupies most of Ryan's time (who seems to do literally nothing from an outsider's perspective except host TNT and is on sick leave every two and ahalf weeks)."

From those scary pictures Ryan keeps tweeting he's treating his sleep apnea which can't be fun. He also seems to be planning to have a kid and getting married. At some point living your life matters more than playing video games or work. That's one of the perks of working for a multimedia conglomerate, you get paid time off. He should take it to get himself straight.

I agreed with many of the things said in this thread and that the content has become watered down and the crew looks tired much of the time. I don't know what their workdays are like but it maybe just that they are shooting these things at the end of the day, its probably not easy to keep up your energy after attending meetings and working all day.

Overall its impossible to crank out content pedal to the metal for a sustained period. The appetite for new content seems insatiable, the only sane way to address it is if they roll in fresh blood although I'm sure there will be a ton of hate going their way

#162 Edited by Brodehouse (9652 posts) -

@leebmx You are mischaracterizing what I said. I didn't say 'he pretends to like them' I said he likes them for conspicuous reasons. That's an important nuance in the argument. You are conflating a conscious decision with a subconscious tendency. Patrick likes those games genuinely, but out of conspicuous rather than qualitative reasons, largely because I don't think he can recognize games on a qualitative level. I think in a vacuum he doesn't have whatever tools are necessary to take a game on its merits, he can only go by what the 'right people' and the 'wrong people' think. How many examples do we have of him blatantly misunderstanding or misrepresenting core game mechanics, appearing to have absolutely no intuition whatsoever? How many times does he take 2 and 2 and make it equal 5? Straight up, _I don't think he's a useful resource of qualitative information when it comes to games_. That includes mechanics, it includes story too, because I don't think he's nearly as well read as he believes he is.

Now, I think he works hard when it comes to the news, and I don't doubt his integrity when it comes to that. But qualitatively, when it comes to games? A big nuh-uh.

#163 Posted by Nasar7 (2610 posts) -

I agree with the OP and the general consensus of this thread, Patrick bashing notwithstanding. Patrick does so much great stuff for the site, due to his own gumption it seems, and like him or not you gotta respect that. Without him, the site would be pretty barren.

I've only been coming to GB for the bombcast lately. The quick looks have been boring for months. I let my subscription lapse sometime last year because, except for Jar Time, I don't feel they put out any worthwhile subscriber content. Even then, Jar Time is not a regular thing. I'm not gonna assume and say Ryan just fucks around on twitter, or why can't Brad do a premium segment, blah blah blah. Regardless, the reality is that there needs to be more done to recapture the essence of giant bomb, and by more people than just Patrick and Alex.

I think the last great thing they put out was that Fortune Street QL. The last time I laughed my ass off was that Bad Company 2 TNT. It's been awhile since the last time the crew felt excited about games. Maybe the new console gen will help with that.

#164 Edited by Jams (2960 posts) -

@leebmx said:

I wish all the people saying how shit this site has got and how much they hate Patrick etc etc would actually fuck off if its really that bad. The fact that they don't is because this is no contest the best videogame site on the web by miles. Only Rock Paper Shotgun can even see it off it the distance.

It has been proved time and again that the guys are putting out as much content as they ever used to and it is full of consistently excellent moments. Fuck me, they are even broadcasting from their homes so they can produce extra content.

I agree the guys have been unenthusiastic about games over the last year but that's because it has been one of most mediocre years in gaming for a long time. I don't get what people expect them to do, laugh and grin like Disney store employees about games they don't like. As long as they have something insightful, interesting and humourous to say about games, and they do, I don't care if they are shitting on every game out there.

Sorry if this is a bit harsh but some people on this site just need to get a bit of perspective and be thankful for a lot of the great moments and content this site has provided. Its great to suggest things that you would like to see or improvements you would like to be made, but there is a lot of self-absorbed whining going on.

Threads like this in a week full of interviews and an extra 2.5hour podcast on top of the normal one to come.

Do you think most of us are going to just fuck off that quickly? You know we have a lot of love invested in this site. It isn't just another gaming site to a lot of us. What, do you think I'm going to take down my favorite poster after two boring quick looks? Do you think I'm going to throw away the dozen GB shirts I have because there haven't been enough Random Ass PC Games?

These criticisms come from wanting the site to succeed. Forget the few posters in here that just wanted to complain about Patrick. Listen to what the others are saying. We're starting to notice Patrick taking over most of the duties of the other guys. Whether it's temporary or not, we don't know.

They need to start having schedules and plans about what they'r going to record, because I don't know if I can keep waiting for the shows I like to come back around. I tell you what though; I'm just not going to leave at the first sign of trouble. I'll stick it out as long as I have to. This site is like a second home to me and I don't know if I'll ever be able to find another like it.

#165 Edited by leebmx (2228 posts) -

@brodehouse: You called him grasping and conspicous, and if I read the paragraph you wrote correctly you seem to be saying that Patrick likes games (or thinks he likes games - clearly you have a better grasp of his subconcious than the man himself) because of reasons other than the quality of the games themselves. Can you tell me what you think these reasons are - I wouldn't want to assume it is because you are going to lazily call him a hipster or other such nonsense as some users do.

Its fine to disagree with someone's views but I just think its an extraordinary, and yes insulting thing to say, that someone isn't capable of creating a genuine (because this is what you are saying) system of taste based on their own judgement and that they are so shallow that all their views and ideas are just buffeted by the winds of fashion.

You and Patrick like a lot of the same stuff, be thankful and enjoy that, rather than trying to create some spurious psycology that invalidates his tastes.

#166 Edited by rebgav (1429 posts) -

I'm still kicking myself for re-upping on my subscription even though I knew that it was going to be a futile gesture. There is relatively little premium content and only a small subset of what is produced is actually entertaining to me. I don't feel that the sub fee allows them to have autonomy or to keep doing the "crazy" things they used to at Whiskey, based on the observation that they don't really do anything outside of the norm anymore. The side benefit of the sub fee being some sort of show of support doesn't really play for me either, given the open contempt that the staff has for their audience - It doesn't feel like I'm supporting the GB community so much as handing some guys a platform to whine about kids these days and oh, those internets.

I find that I don't spend much time with GB's content at the moment, I've stopped listening to the bombcast and watching the scheduled live shows, I don't find too many of the QLs to be entertaining or informative. Though rather than churning out angry threads about the way that GB chooses to run its business I simply spend my time and my money elsewhere.

#167 Edited by leebmx (2228 posts) -

@jams: Yeah the first sentence is a bit harsh, sorry about that - I basically have rowed back by the end of my initial post.

However I said it because I get so frustrated by some of the comments sections on here. It is absolutely fine to offer constructive criticism and suggest new ideas you want to see from the site, but so many of the comments around the forums are not presented in this spirit at all. There is so much rudeness and hostility especially towards Patrick which I find disgusting. As I said I have no problem with constructive criticism but actual insults and personality attacks are just not acceptable - and its no good saying 'oh its the internet,' People need to behave like adults. EDIT:Check out his Twitter feed today.

I say this as well, because there are lots of comments on here like 'oh why don't the staff read the forums and find out what is going on.' I can say on their behalf that why should they have to wade through page after page of ignorance to find the few good posters.

I am just sick to the back teeth of hearing people complain about Patrick - and as you say these people drown out the people with real ideas and genuine comments to make - he is not going anywhere and puts in so much good work on this site. So he's not the funniest guy in the universe - he was never hired for that - he is here to put news and features and interviews on the site and he does it in spades. The place would be way poorer without him.

Sorry, rant, rant, rant - its not at you at all, just my limit seems to have been reached today.

I think a lot of the problems that people are feeling is because GB is losing that Indie feel. They have moved from a little basement and being scrappy underdogs, to a bigger more corporate office. But you know why that is - because they are successful and people love what they do. As long as they keep the spirit and don't sell out (and I can't believe Jeff would ever, ever do that - and he is ultimately in charge) I can out up with the odd slow week amongst all the great stuff and laughter they have provided.

Sorry this is turning into an essay now: TLDR: I don't really want people to fuck off, I was just angry. Please stay, appreciate the great things we have here, and comment respectfully and thoughtfully if you want it to change.

#168 Posted by Brodehouse (9652 posts) -

@leebmx I... was under the impression I just did explain why I feel he doesn't give useful qualitative insight. He knows too little and assumes too much. Things he has heard from others fill in too much of his impressions. He misunderstands a significant portion of mechanics, or makes assumptions about other game mechanics, unless he has had them strictly explained (and even then). Watch that Banner Saga QL, it reveals absolutely evey frustration I have with him knowing too little and assuming too much. Taking 2 and 2 and making 5. Jeff looks at a glass of water and says it's half empty, Vinny says it's half full, Brad says let's actually check whether it's half, and Patrick says it's probably a dragon.

See, that's why it's frustrating to hear him opine about things we have in common but have clearly reached through completely different means. To hear him talk about supposedly liking Silent Hill while apparently understanding nothing about it except the most discussed elements he's caught second hand is of course frustrating to someone who has a qualitative appreciation or disdain for whichever element is in question.

#169 Posted by leebmx (2228 posts) -

@brodehouse: I just found it weird for someone to say 'oh this guy likes the same stuff as me but I like it for the right reasons and he likes it for the the wrong ones.' Not an exact quote obviously but that's what you seemed to be saying.

I suppose for me, I don't care that much if I hear someone say something I disagree with (unless it makes me think). I don't expect someone to be right all the time just because they are on a website or whatever. I find that Jeff says some bizzare things about games sometimes, but that's just him.

I agree that there is the odd occasion where Patrick has misspoke but stacked against all the other excellent stuff he has done and it hardly seems worth caring about.

#170 Posted by Krullban (1024 posts) -

I was going to quote/reply/point out all the people whose criticisms I agreed with, but that got to be too much around halfway down the first page. As far as my personal opinions are concerned, about 90% of the critical posts in this thread resonated with me.

Hell, I'm so out of it right now (it's late!) that I'm not even sure how to eloquently close out this post. Most of the criticisms were spot-on as far as I'm concerned, and people trying to defend the staff or saying "just don't come to the site anymore then!" aren't really helping their case at all; that's always been such a lazy answer to an argument. It basically says "I don't have any rebuttal but I'm not going to concede." The reason so many of us passionately critique, criticize, and offer suggestions for Giant Bomb is because we care about the site and its future. As a few people pointed out, it does feel like we've gone through this cycle every 6-8 months starting way back in 2010. GB hits a hard slump; community gets restless and vocal; GB shows new life and changes/adds a new feature or two; GB seems like it's back on the rise to the golden age of 2009 for a bit; the consistency of the feature slowly fades out; GB feels lacking and crew seems tired/jaded; GB hits a hard slump; etc., ad nauseam. It's mildly depressing to see this cycle continue to repeat itself. I'm sure at the end of August/middle of September we'll be having this same conversation as most members come up on their yearly memberships ending again.

Fuck, guys. Remember the Sausalito basement? The dudes all seemed so genuinely happy then. They'd look for any excuse to pull out a handheld camera and shoot 5 minute videos. They'd make mailbags out of just getting a few energy drinks and foreign candy, and even had mailbags where they opened things from publishers. Now it seems like we average about a mailbag a month, and it's only when they get something either impressive or insane. I'm sure they're probably sick of getting repeat candy and drinks all the time, but that little bit of community outreach goes a long way. I don't really have time to catch the live shows anymore so I'm not sure if anything goes on there, but from what I've gathered they don't even play games with the community on TNT anymore. It seems like as GB becomes a bigger business, they've also become much more distant. Back when the site launched, there was that feeling that we were all coming together to make something great.

I think maybe that's why a lot of people are turning to youtube and twitch for their video game personalities now; it still has the feeling of being in it together. I feel like, as Giant Bomb has continued to grow, they've lost sight of what made their community so loyal in the first place.

Nailed it.

#171 Posted by Bocam (3683 posts) -

So where are those GDC podcasts?

#172 Posted by Jams (2960 posts) -

@leebmx: I agree all the Patrick hate posts in this thread need to disappear. They're turning (what could be) constructive criticisms into a slog of shit. If you think you're at your wits end with it, imagine someone like me who's trying to voice real concerns but then gets sidelined by, "hur dur me hate patrick duuur".

It's infuriating for sure. I'd rather GB be able to read each individual post and take them into consideration. But they probably won't be able to because of the few that are just nonconstructive.

#173 Edited by Brodehouse (9652 posts) -

@leebmx that is largely what I'm saying. I like things qualitatively (and I have my biases of course), but Patrick appears to lack that ability, to look at a thing qualitatively outside of bias or second hand opinion, and thus his views on games I find functionally useless.

Imagine you like the Beatles because Paul McCartney's incredible ear for melody, Lennon's experimentation with voice effects, Paul's active and smooth bass style... And then someone says "I like the Beatles too! Because I heard this guy say they were great and I enjoyed the White Album but I can't explain why!" That's crazy-making!

And it's not like I only see flaws in Patrick, Jeff has some overriding biases (to his credit, he attempts to limit his presence in those discussions/reviews), Brad cannot articulate his views in the moment for the life of him (2010 DLC argument, 2011 GOTY argument, my God), and Ryan doesn't like to think very deeply on anything. Still like their content outside of those problems... but that doesn't mean it doesn't negatively affect it when it appears. Unfortunately, Patrick's appears anytime he makes anything approaching a judgment on a game.

"Disagreeing respectfully" does not mean doing so in the most ingratiating and supplicating matter. If I'm constantly full of shit, I expect someone to call me on it. They often do.

#174 Edited by CrossTheAtlantic (1145 posts) -
@ajamafalous said:

As a few people pointed out, it does feel like we've gone through this cycle every 6-8 months starting way back in 2010. GB hits a hard slump; community gets restless and vocal; GB shows new life and changes/adds a new feature or two; GB seems like it's back on the rise to the golden age of 2009 for a bit; the consistency of the feature slowly fades out; GB feels lacking and crew seems tired/jaded; GB hits a hard slump; etc., ad nauseam. It's mildly depressing to see this cycle continue to repeat itself

If only we could create some kind of A.I. to prevent the cycle from happening again...

(I agree.)

#175 Posted by RazielCuts (2942 posts) -

It's a shame these threads always get turned into 'Patrick Haters Vs. Patrick Lovers' fest though. Patrick is not the problem here and it diverts the conversation away from what could be a well thought out and interesting discussion, but addressing that.

  • At PAX Patrick was putting in the work, dropping dump trucks practically everyday.
  • No matter how specious Patrick's foray's into Monster Hunter or Fire Emblem or whatever new 'niche' game he wants to have a crack at next is, at least he's covering them in any shape or form because they wouldn't of been talked about on the site otherwise. The only other time I felt that happened is the trifecta of Vinny, Rorie and Kessler talking about Demons's/ Dark Souls. (And Brad Starcraftin'.)

This being said, GB has kind of become the 'Patrick Feat. GB Special Guest' site, at least for QL's anyway, which I consider the potatoes of the site (if the bombcast is the meat.) I don't necessarily have a problem with this it's just that I assume most of the users who came to the site in the beginning (myself included) was for the founding members and now them taking a more casual backseat approach is a bit, disheartening? But then again most of the games that get QL's these days are smaller games that never would've gotten them previously without the reign of Patrick, which can only be a good thing, so I don't know - I'm conflicted.

Taking away Patrick isn't the answer (even if some of you might want it to be.) Imagine how big the gulf of content would be then and the site would purely be 'AAA' big hitters or nothing.

----

On topic, people are citing the PAX Panel as 'see, look guys, its GB at its best' but I wonder what the panel would've been like if Harmonix or the breast milk guy hadn't shown up. Sometimes I worry about GB's fuck it, no prep, freestyle ways. With the reliance on 'Live stream everything!' lately it seems the site is heading towards the cable network TV show Jeff's always wanted (and I'm not sure thats a good thing?)

#176 Posted by leebmx (2228 posts) -

@brodehouse: Not sure who you are calling ingratiating etc......

I guess we just disagree that Patrick is full of shit all the time. I think he has perfectly valid reasons for the things he likes and tbh the more your argument is whittled down the more it sounds like you are saying Patrick is a silly hipster who likes things because he thinks they are cool. That's what I get from your Beatles argument anyway. Just be sure that you aren't reacting like some kid in school who finds out someone he thinks is a dweeb likes his favourite band. You know just maybe, maybe, you both have similar tastes. Or maybe you both like the different aspects of the same thing.

I think Patrick has been great for this site, I love the way he has brought up issues like sexism and enjoy how angsty it makes most of the men-children of videogameland and there is a ton of good content (interviews, articles etc) which this site was bereft while that old weight-lifting new guy was here (can't remember his name).

I get that some people want this site just to be four guys goofing around, and I want that as well, but I also like information and comment. How well thought through this content is I guess we will just have to respectfully disagree about.

#177 Posted by leebmx (2228 posts) -

@razielcuts: I think you make some good points. I would really like to see some stats of the last year or so to see how many quick looks etc people have been in because sometimes I think people see what they want to see a little.

You make the point about AAA, and Patrick being the only one to cover anything new, but as far as I can tell and i've been on the site since '09 they have never really had that diverse coverage of games. Apart from the odd niche thing they like (Brad - Starcraft, Jeff - Trackmania) they never have branched out too much.

I really think a lot of the coverage has been coloured by how poor and unoriginal the past year or so has been in gaming. This site is built around their personalities so if they are not feeling what is out there this is unfortunately going to show through in the content. I think it is one of the pitfalls of being genuine and non-industry-IGN-preview -focused that if the passion for the product is not there this will show in their output. I think you only have to hear Jeff talking about the PS4 recently to realise that that love is still there but I think it needs to be rekindled by exciting things happening in gaming.

I really think Jeff so concentrate more on Retro (hate the word but you know what I mean) gaming and digging through his giant back catalogue and excylopedic knowledge of the industry. I hope they start doing Encyclopedia Bombastica again.

In more general terms I think people are maybe romantacising the old days a little. The content was good but I think part of the excitment for the user was being part of this new, growing thing which was outside the normal game website template. You can't really recapture that, unless Jeff gets fired from CBS again and starts up a new website in which case this is all a plot to restart the cycle....wait....what....?

#178 Edited by RazielCuts (2942 posts) -

@leebmx: 'Call of Duty 10 is an ugly, ugly game.'

I think people romanticise the younger years as it was more of a basement start up, it felt more homely and they had to prove themselves to us and to game studios. Remember the production on I Love Mondays? Remember TANG? Remember Video Reviews? Remember...dare I say it...ENDURANCE RUNS </3 ?! All that seems to of faded and I'm not really sure why.

I guess now they have the audience, they have the in, the sway, they don't need to try as hard, which is a shame. I feel if things like the Bombastica and Jar Time were conceived in the early years they'd have waay more production value, not saying I totally need it. I mean Jar TIme is Jeff talking into a microphone answering questions, it might as well (should) be a podcast. I just feel other than the site overhaul the 'professionalism' has kind of been lost between the cracks over the years. Past PAX's there's been video interviews with bumpers and videos of the show floor and podcasts, this year it was said from the outset GB would be 'dark' for the next couple of weeks and the panel. Ho hum I guess.

#179 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@assinass said:

@milkman said:

A message to everyone saying the site has "changed."

Thank you for this. Now off to watch this and smile and laugh without ever coming back in this thread.

Yeah, the fuck are you motherfuckers hating on Alex for? Alex is awesome!

#180 Edited by leebmx (2228 posts) -

@razielcuts: Yeah I miss the old ILM, the new ones are just boring most of the time, TANG was great as well and there have been rumblings of that starting again. Video reviews I could care less about. I'm sure there will be another ER someday......

But then you get things like all the stuff for the GOY last year, and while I didn't find all of them to be amazing you can't deny they put a ton of effort into those things.

What we do get these days are lots of shows with them all sat around just playing games with guests or whatever and I have to say I really love those.

The reason the basement feel has faded is because they are not a basement company anymore. People really liked what they did and wanted more of it so they got bigger, it is unfortunately the way things happen. Its like when your fave band who you saw in the back rooms of pubs suddenly get huge are are playing enormo-domes, the magic goes a little bit. Its very hard to stay small and scrappy for ever because you make not money and your options are forever limited.

I think part of it thought is the look of the new place, the old offices looked so more homely and comfortable and the new office looks like, well, an office. It always looks like you will see behind a partition and there will be a load of guys in suits doing accounts. Its one of the reasons I dislike the new ILM so much.

#181 Edited by Bocam (3683 posts) -

@razielcuts: I'd like to add on to what you said about the Panel video, Ryan has repeatedly said we did not plan anything for the panel I think we should do some planning next time. Yet they never do. That kinda ticks a nerve. (Though that may be because my job as a lawyer is planned out to a ridiculous degree.)

#182 Posted by Brodehouse (9652 posts) -

@leebmx Remember that you specifically made this a referendum on Patrick, the bulk of my post was about live QLs being inferior. I responded to someone else regarding Patrick and then you rode in. Remember that my comment about Patrick and games has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with your nonsense 'man-children' insults. His news work is not a part of the criticism of his insight into games, so why is it being introduced as a response to the criticism? That's a red herring argument. Along with 'you just want 4 guys goofing off'. Not only is it not true, but it's not relevant to the actual criticism; that Patrick doesn't appear to be able to make qualitative judgements, and that he knows too little and assumes too much. How his politics match yours or mine is completely irrelevant. Whether of not he's funny (which I've never brought up) is completely irrelevant.

As I said and underlined earlier, _I do not find him a useful resource of qualitative information when it comes to games_. I find Jeff, Brad and Alex (and Ryan a bit) to be useful to make qualitative statements. Has nothing to do with the quality or integrity of his news work, or his humor, or anything. I think he lacks insight and he's prone to letting baseless assumptions or biases cloud any objective or subjective details.

I have a question. Why can you hear a criticism of Jeff, Ryan, Brad... I called Brad inarticulate, didn't seem to have any effect. I constantly say Alex is personally obnoxious, but his writing is excellent. But when someone says Patrick lacks qualitative insight, it's a GD crusade? What is that, entrenchment? Why does disdain for Patrick's behaviour necessitates mischaracterizations, straw man arguments, red herring arguments, rationalizations, bargaining, insults, and the demand that if you don't love Patrick then girt ouuuurt? Seems so strange.

#183 Posted by Parsnip (1078 posts) -

I agree with most of the criticism in this thread.

The only one of the crew who seems to still have the energy and enthusiasm for games games games is Vinny, and he would actually have a pretty good reason to be tired.

Jeff looks at a glass of water and says it's half empty, Vinny says it's half full, Brad says let's actually check whether it's half, and Patrick says it's probably a dragon.

Perfect.

#184 Posted by RazielCuts (2942 posts) -

@bocam: I think I've heard Ryan say that at previous PAX panels. I think it might be a bit of a deflector though, if it ends up being 'bad' its cool because they didn't plan anything.

I smiled when I saw this on twitter, I think its the extent of Ryan's planning for things -

Hey, you're in SF for GDC, right? You wanna do some after-hours live shit with Giant Bomb this week, right? Get at me.

#185 Edited by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

What? The content has been awesome lately. Especially Patrick, getting his game on. All of these interviews and the monster hunter stuff and all that? It's been cool to see more of him. A couple of weeks with a few less instances of the guys you want because hey they are busy because this is a busy month, and you start going down on them?

Wait that came out wrong.

Either way, be less picky, enjoy what's there. This site is not about Ryan and Jeff. It has a much larger staff than that, and if you don't want the rest, just consume their content and ignore the rest. But it's not going to change just because you want more of two guys and less of the others.

Also you're a dick for even splitting them up into tiers like that. Nah, I'm just yanking your chain. Sort of.

#186 Posted by Veektarius (4653 posts) -

I've always felt that the site has suffered from a lack of content and its very personality-driven selection of what it chooses to cover extensively in the first place. I don't think that the videos we'd get would be as good, though, if someone cracked the whip and told Jeff he had to do more quick looks or Brad, or Ryan. It's good because they want to be there. Ultimately, I think you're right to complain, but I don't think there's a solution to your problem (except for scaling back Patrick in videos, because he talks too loudly)

#187 Posted by leebmx (2228 posts) -

@brodehouse:

I am talking about Patrick because that was the comment of yours I had issue with - if you want to talk about something else - lets do it. But the initial comment you made about liking the same stuff as Patrick but that supposed enjoyment of his was 'grasping and conspicous,' I found so bizzare that I had to jump in. I wanted to talk to you and find out what you meant by this, because reading it, it sounded like this idea of Patrick as some kind of shallow 'pretend' gamer which seems to be at the heart of a lot of the unfair criticism he is getting.

I have a better idea of what you mean now - you think that Patrick is incapable of making any reasonable judgements on a game. Qualitative judgements as you call them. I think he gets some things wrong and some things right like most every other person in the world. I don't think he is exceptional for this on the site- and I think the criticism he receives for this can be rude and exaggerated.

Which leads me to: In answer to your question I suppose I don't feel disposed to defending the other guys because they are not getting what I consider regular unfair abuse constantly in the comments, and because I don't entirely disagree with what you said about Brad etc. I don't know what a GD crusade is (do you mean GB?) but today especially it has got on my wick, especially when I read his Twitter feed. He should be able to show a video to his mum without having to cover up the comments for fear of upsetting her

That is my point of view - if you want to characterise it as 'mischaracterizations, straw man arguments, red herring arguments, rationalizations, bargaining, insults, and the demand that if you don't love Patrick then girt ouuuurt?' then fine. I also think you should try and understand (or maybe I don't explain it well enough) when I am making a point directly to your argument and making a more general one. My discussion of his other writing etc is to show how I think he has worth on the site, that he shouldn't be written off for his 'qualitative judgements' alone.

Lastly I wasn't trying to insult you with the 'four guys goofing around,' comment. If you read my last post a bit more carefully you will see I say that's what I want as well. Also the 'man-children comment,' it wasn't aimed at you, just some of the more neanderthal commentators I have read on here. Please don't be so quick to be insulted, its not always my intent.

#188 Posted by Superfriend (1536 posts) -

Compared to back in November of last year, when this discussion came up before, a lot has actually changed for the better.

Patrick trying to broaden his horizon (and to an extent the horizon of the rest of GB) is awesome. Yes, he´s still in a lot of content, but he has to. The others seem constantly involved in meetings and/or being sick. If anything, it´s the goddamn meetings. I mean, they come up to Vinny during a goddamn livestream to tell him he has to be in some weird meeting. Guess that´s the awesome world of corporations for ya.

But overall, I really feel like things have improved a lot over the last couple of months. Some awesome Quicklooks, like the ARMA3 one and the new live show with Gamespot.. and of course the PAX panel. Things are looking up I guess. If anything they should take their time to do the things they want to do. If that means scrapping TNT from time to time, then so be it. I have zero issues with them taking a week off, by the way.

#189 Edited by casper_ (901 posts) -
@parsnip said:

I agree with most of the criticism in this thread.

The only one of the crew who seems to still have the energy and enthusiasm for games games games is Vinny, and he would actually have a pretty good reason to be tired.

@brodehouse said:

Jeff looks at a glass of water and says it's half empty, Vinny says it's half full, Brad says let's actually check whether it's half, and Patrick says it's probably a dragon.

Perfect.

this is untrue i distinctly remember patrick saying the glass was a roguelike

#190 Posted by yakov456 (1899 posts) -

Still remember the first day they walked into that basement and were really excited with the possibilities of what could be. I'd love it if they were injected with some of that juice again.

#191 Posted by EnduranceFun (1114 posts) -
#192 Edited by Slag (4090 posts) -

Compared to back in November of last year, when this discussion came up before, a lot has actually changed for the better.

Patrick trying to broaden his horizon (and to an extent the horizon of the rest of GB) is awesome. Yes, he´s still in a lot of content, but he has to. The others seem constantly involved in meetings and/or being sick. If anything, it´s the goddamn meetings. I mean, they come up to Vinny during a goddamn livestream to tell him he has to be in some weird meeting. Guess that´s the awesome world of corporations for ya.

But overall, I really feel like things have improved a lot over the last couple of months. Some awesome Quicklooks, like the ARMA3 one and the new live show with Gamespot.. and of course the PAX panel. Things are looking up I guess. If anything they should take their time to do the things they want to do. If that means scrapping TNT from time to time, then so be it. I have zero issues with them taking a week off, by the way.

this is very true

I really appreciate Patrick delving into Japanese games. like he has.

Online
#193 Edited by Miketakon (513 posts) -

I don't like Patrick but I'll give him credit for the stuff he does on the site.

#194 Edited by Kenobi (361 posts) -

The panel was exactly what I come to giantbomb for. If they're dragging their feet about quick looks or content they don't want to do. They should stop and find something new that they enjoy and get that energy back.

#195 Edited by I_Stay_Puft (3062 posts) -

@video_game_king said:

@kenobi said:

He has more content, airtime, and interviews.

Maybe because he's writing more content, shooting more stuff, and conducting more interviews? As to your other thing, are you suggesting that we get a live feed of the crew sleeping? Because for some reason, I'm pretty sure that's what Jar Time is.

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