• 107 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
#101 Edited by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

@seppli said:

What assumption am I making here exactly?

  • That PS4 has a significantly more powerful GPU? Nope that's a fact.
  • That PS4 has significantly faster RAM? Nope that's a fact.
  • That the Xbox One team is increasing clockspeed for a insignificant speedboost (single digit percentage-wise), which does both inherently increase the cost of production and risk of operation (albeit likely just as marginally as the resulting computing power increase is)? Nope that's a fact.

To me, it is clear that increasing clockspeed this late in the game is primarily spin. It's about winning back some of the mindshare of core consumers. The Xbox One may only be 1% faster than before, but Microsoft is hoping to win back 10% mindshare. Sure - you can say this is pure conjecture, but really, the corporate tailspin caused by post E3 preorder numbers, and the resulting backpaddling and constantly on-going spin on Xbox One and all of its features, especially hardware-power-wise, is painfully obvious.

We don't know how much more powerful PS4 is. All we do know is, that it is built with significantly better components, that are more elegantly assembled, and that we will pay a 100$ less for it all. That's really all I need to know right now.

That's ridiculous. Unless you're claiming they're lying about the changes I have no idea how anyone can refer to actual, physical hardware changes as "spin". It doesn't matter what their reason is for increasing their specs might be. You can speculate about this all you want, but it's irrelevant to this discussion. The actual hardware specification and differences, and whatever changes they made that may affect those numbers are not.

And you're making some general statements, "more, more more" in a thread where we're talking about specific numbers and questioning their accuracy. Then the only numbers you have in there are just numbers you're coming up with out of thin air. Yes we don't know, and that's kind of the point of the discussion. To get close to accurately finding that out with numbers backed up by credible sources and followed up with logical conclusions. That's called hard facts.

In addition nobody is questioning the points you are making. Those are not in question. Your generic conclusions however had to have came from you either researching the hardware numbers yourself or reading other people's posts or articles discussing these numbers. And that's what this is about.

PS: I bolded your assumptions. That's what I would refer to as assumptions. Phrases like that just don't belong in a conversation about hardware specs and simply don't help. The only fact you have in your entire post is that it's $100 less. Now that is a known fact.

#102 Posted by Sergio (2259 posts) -

This seems like spin control by Albert Penello to appease the Xbox fanboys and try to win over those who had been console-agnostic for the past two generations who have decided to either go with a PS4 first or not get either at launch.

I don't think the PS4 is 50% more powerful than the Xbox One as the Sony fanboys like to claim, but it is clear that it is a more powerful system. While he throws out numbers that may be factual, he's applied a spin to them to try to convince us of their relative importance.

I think both systems will have great looking games. However, a multiplatform game will be able to take advantage of better graphics resources more than an insignificant increase of the CPU's speed. If taken as the lead platform, I could easily see multiplatform games looking better on a PS4, but I don't think it will detract from those games on the Xbox One, so I don't know why the Xbox diehards try to push this poor concept that cloud computing or anything else will somehow make the Xbox One on par or more powerful than the PS4.

The slight advantages that the Xbox One may have over the PS4 will still result in great exclusives on the Xbox One (none so far that personally interest me). But in terms of multiplatform games, the edge will go to the PS4. I also expect exclusives on the PS4 to look better than Xbox One exclusives. So what? That shouldn't detract from your enjoyment of Xbox One games, so I never understand why some fervently defend the system or Microsoft.

I do find it funny when people like to claim that either the Xbox One development will improve over time to close the gap or surpass the PS4, as if the PS4 development will be held in stasis until that time. Both consoles will improve with time. We don't know what their relative improvements may be, so the gap may stay the same, decrease, or even increase. Likewise, claiming that we don't know if there's some magical component in the Xbox One that will make up the difference is assuming we know every little detail about the PS4. Sony hasn't needed to try to spin control their specs as much as Microsoft has, so they've been able to keep much of it close to their chest.

#104 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (3791 posts) -

I play console games to not give a shit about this stuff, All i know is Halo will burn my eyes because how fucking fantastic it looks.

Kilimanjaro!

#105 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

@alexglass said:

@seppli said:

What assumption am I making here exactly?

  • That PS4 has a significantly more powerful GPU? Nope that's a fact.
  • That PS4 has significantly faster RAM? Nope that's a fact.
  • That the Xbox One team is increasing clockspeed for a insignificant speedboost (single digit percentage-wise), which does both inherently increase the cost of production and risk of operation (albeit likely just as marginally as the resulting computing power increase is)? Nope that's a fact.

To me, it is clear that increasing clockspeed this late in the game is primarily spin. It's about winning back some of the mindshare of core consumers. The Xbox One may only be 1% faster than before, but Microsoft is hoping to win back 10% mindshare. Sure - you can say this is pure conjecture, but really, the corporate tailspin caused by post E3 preorder numbers, and the resulting backpaddling and constantly on-going spin on Xbox One and all of its features, especially hardware-power-wise, is painfully obvious.

We don't know how much more powerful PS4 is. All we do know is, that it is built with significantly better components, that are more elegantly assembled, and that we will pay a 100$ less for it all. That's really all I need to know right now.

That's ridiculous. Unless you're claiming they're lying about the changes I have no idea how anyone can refer to actual, physical hardware changes as "spin". It doesn't matter what their reason is for increasing their specs might be. You can speculate about this all you want, but it's irrelevant to this discussion. The actual hardware specification and differences, and whatever changes they made that may affect those numbers are not.

And you're making some general statements, "more, more more" in a thread where we're talking about specific numbers and questioning their accuracy. Then the only numbers you have in there are just numbers you're coming up with out of thin air. Yes we don't know, and that's kind of the point of the discussion. To get close to accurately finding that out with numbers backed up by credible sources and followed up with logical conclusions. That's called hard facts.

In addition nobody is questioning the points you are making. Those are not in question. Your generic conclusions however had to have came from you either researching the hardware numbers yourself or reading other people's posts or articles discussing these numbers. And that's what this is about.

PS: I bolded your assumptions. That's what I would refer to as assumptions. Phrases like that just don't belong in a conversation about hardware specs and simply don't help. The only fact you have in your entire post is that it's $100 less. Now that is a known fact.

Microsoft is not changing out physical hardware, it's just changing bios settings. Overclocking in colloquial terms. The minute difference in effective power gained by this is not what it really is about though (minute because that's all minor overclocking is good for). It's a blatant attempt to create insecurity in regards to how much less powerful Xbox One is in comparison to PS4, at least according to popular belief (which is based on hard data comparing the consoles via their spec sheets, as well as numerous feedback from the development community).

A little outdated, but close enough...

Assuming the known specs are true (plus minus the recent upclocking of Xbox One's CPU), the systems are both very similar, but also quite different in terms of performance. Roughly 50% more shaders on the GPU, almost triple raw memory bandwidth for the RAM, equal CPU - a clear advantage for PS4. There's no denying it.

How much eSRAM potentially will improve on memory bandwidth, we don't know - however we know PS4 has triple of Xbox One's raw memory bandwidth, that much is a certainty. These are facts, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know how you can say otherwise. To me it feels like you're in denial.

#106 Posted by Istealdreams (155 posts) -

@istealdreams said:

@alexglass: It also mean impassioned; which when a majority of your posts are championing/defending/explaining and postulating on the actual function of anything that Xbox One can do - by a large margin-are, then yes I would say that you fervently defend every position of the system. Even to the point of calling out speculation of the ps4 while speculating on the functionality and uses of the Xbox One, Cloud, and Kinect.

--And fervently is a commonly used word that wasn't used to impress or look cool, just to get my point across. Unless you're a developer or work for microsoft or sony, everything people post in regards to use and function is conjecture. No matter how many times they post about it.

You realize you are the only person in this thread taking a technical discussion and trying to turn it into something personal for no apparent reason? You don't even make an accurate point in your argument nor is your point in any way relevant to the discussion. I'm pretty sure I'm calling out speculation on both. And this new post is just a continuation of your original attempt to smear, discredit, dilute and are attempting to generalize and rewrite my history in whatever skewed perception you have of me and feel the need to come in here and splurge about it. You came in here with nothing to add, other than to make the argument personal. And you continue to do so. What does that say about you? Stop projecting your feelings on me or in this thread. PM me if you have an issue.

This isn't a technical discussion, this is a group of forum goes hypothesizing about tech that has not had all relevant data released to the public, nor claimed increases subjected to independent scrutiny.

There is no smear, discredit or rewriting your history. 455 posts. A vast majority of them Xbox One related.

AlexGlass (455 posts) - 2 hours, 23 minutes ago

@seppli said:

What assumption am I making here exactly?

  • That PS4 has a significantly more powerful GPU? Nope that's a fact.
  • That PS4 has significantly faster RAM? Nope that's a fact.
  • That the Xbox One team is increasing clockspeed for a insignificant speedboost (single digit percentage-wise), which does both inherently increase the cost of production and risk of operation (albeit likely just as marginally as the resulting computing power increase is)? Nope that's a fact.

To me, it is clear that increasing clockspeed this late in the game is primarily spin. It's about winning back some of the mindshare of core consumers. The Xbox One may only be 1% faster than before, but Microsoft is hoping to win back 10% mindshare. Sure - you can say this is pure conjecture, but really, the corporate tailspin caused by post E3 preorder numbers, and the resulting backpaddling and constantly on-going spin on Xbox One and all of its features, especially hardware-power-wise, is painfully obvious.

We don't know how much more powerful PS4 is. All we do know is, that it is built with significantly better components, that are more elegantly assembled, and that we will pay a 100$ less for it all. That's really all I need to know right now.

That's ridiculous. Unless you're claiming they're lying about the changes I have no idea how anyone can refer to actual, physical hardware changes as "spin". It doesn't matter what their reason is for increasing their specs might be. You can speculate about this all you want, but it's irrelevant to this discussion. The actual hardware specification and differences, and whatever changes they made that may affect those numbers are not.

And you're making some general statements, "more, more more" in a thread where we're talking about specific numbers and questioning their accuracy. Then the only numbers you have in there are just numbers you're coming up with out of thin air. Yes we don't know, and that's kind of the point of the discussion. To get close to accurately finding that out with numbers backed up by credible sources and followed up with logical conclusions. That's called hard facts.

In addition nobody is questioning the points you are making. Those are not in question. Your generic conclusions however had to have came from you either researching the hardware numbers yourself or reading other people's posts or articles discussing these numbers. And that's what this is about.

PS: I bolded your assumptions. That's what I would refer to as assumptions. Phrases like that just don't belong in a conversation about hardware specs and simply don't help. The only fact you have in your entire post is that it's $100 less. Now that is a known fact.

This whole topic is assumptions! But when someone assumes something about the PS4 you dismiss it as not factual or relevant and then back up your claims with the same type of data and info released by MS while calling it a fact! No one knows how the cloud is going to be used and what its limits are, same with kinect.-Well except for @alexglass!

At the beginning of this topic you yourself point out that your not a MS plant, but then go on to post more MS spin. A unaffiliated developer (whom actually used to make games FOR XBOX) says that the developers he knows admit that PS4 is the more powerful system. Then a Microsoft Executive dismissed him and posts the same type of heresay and you post a huge article in General discussion no less- not Xbox One forum-to point out that microsoft SAYS that it much closer to PS4 in power because, hey, Microsoft says so!

You say that you want a discussion, but you don't. You post Xbox One info and dismiss any dissenting opinions.

It is a fact that the PS4 hardware wise is a more powerful system. How much more? yet to be determined. This isn't "Cell" technology versus PC based tech. This is PC Tech against PC Tech.

You say you want a discussion, then have one. Actually respond to what people say without dismissing it and realize that your information is just as subject to a critical eye as theirs. My original comment is because you try to distance yourself from being called a MS plant, but in reality-with 455 posts and just a handful not related to Xbox One is hard to do. While I don't think that you are one at all, calling out fanboys and dismissing positive PS4 information while then doing the same thing is disingenuous. That article you posted about Spark with the hour long video was great, that game looks awesome! Solid Tangible Info.

And because it always seems to be relevant, I have a Xbox One Day one edition pre-ordered, I want it to be as awesome as possible:

But this topic probably needs to be in the correct forum anyways.

#107 Posted by jgf (394 posts) -

@istealdreams: I think you're going to far with your personal vendetta against @alexglass . For example I don't see the upclocking to 1.7ghz as a pure PR spin. They manufactured the final device and tested it. They saw that thermal conditions were good and upclocking was possible. So they went for it. It is a performance boost at essentially no additional cost. Its not that big of a deal, but nobody claimed 50% performance improvements or something ridiculous like that.

#108 Edited by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

@istealdreams said:

This isn't a technical discussion, this is a group of forum goes hypothesizing about tech that has not had all relevant data released to the public, nor claimed increases subjected to independent scrutiny.

There is no smear, discredit or rewriting your history. 455 posts. A vast majority of them Xbox One related.

This whole topic is assumptions! But when someone assumes something about the PS4 you dismiss it as not factual or relevant and then back up your claims with the same type of data and info released by MS while calling it a fact! No one knows how the cloud is going to be used and what its limits are, same with kinect.-Well except for @alexglass!

At the beginning of this topic you yourself point out that your not a MS plant, but then go on to post more MS spin. A unaffiliated developer (whom actually used to make games FOR XBOX) says that the developers he knows admit that PS4 is the more powerful system. Then a Microsoft Executive dismissed him and posts the same type of heresay and you post a huge article in General discussion no less- not Xbox One forum-to point out that microsoft SAYS that it much closer to PS4 in power because, hey, Microsoft says so!

You say that you want a discussion, but you don't. You post Xbox One info and dismiss any dissenting opinions.

It is a fact that the PS4 hardware wise is a more powerful system. How much more? yet to be determined. This isn't "Cell" technology versus PC based tech. This is PC Tech against PC Tech.

You say you want a discussion, then have one. Actually respond to what people say without dismissing it and realize that your information is just as subject to a critical eye as theirs. My original comment is because you try to distance yourself from being called a MS plant, but in reality-with 455 posts and just a handful not related to Xbox One is hard to do. While I don't think that you are one at all, calling out fanboys and dismissing positive PS4 information while then doing the same thing is disingenuous. That article you posted about Spark with the hour long video was great, that game looks awesome! Solid Tangible Info.

And because it always seems to be relevant, I have a Xbox One Day one edition pre-ordered, I want it to be as awesome as possible:

But this topic probably needs to be in the correct forum anyways.

Look man I don't know who you are, or what you're trying to prove but you're beginning to piss me off. Now I have been trying my best to respond nicely to you, but since you came into this thread you have shown a severe hard on for me or my posts and have taken things to a personal level repeatadly. If you're going to accuse users with the kind of accusations you have, "MS Plant", "fervent defender" and now spining, back it up with something. Otherwise you're just a freaking troll and nothing more who's going around trolling me and spreading lies and misinformation.

The only person here doing any sort of spinning is you. Changing hardware specs changes the hardware specs. Overclocking is a hardware specification. Period. It changes the power of the GPU, CPU or whatever else it's affecting.

It is a technical discussion and that's what I'm trying to have here and the only person incapable of doing such so far is you. So either contribute with something useful, stay on freaking topic, argue the argument, and stop getting personal or don't expect any more attention from me, because so far you have proven you don't deserve it.

And I plan on continuing making nothing but primarily Xbox One related posts. It's what I plan on buying and last time I checked, that's perfectly normal. Do you have a problem with that?

#109 Posted by Fattony12000 (7580 posts) -
@ramone said:

@fattony12000 said:

I think it will have video games on it.

You always were a crazy one Tony.

Yes. I am, indeed, quite the crazy one up in this mother fucker. What. What.

#110 Posted by AlexGlass (688 posts) -

So to give an update, Albert will apparently go back to his engineers, gather up information, and comment when he's sure of what he's talking about and has all the answers to the questions asked.

Originally Posted by Freki

So why is the bidirectional bandwith of your eSRAM 204GB/s although your one-directional bw is 109GB/s - shouldn't it be 218GB/s?

Yes, it should be. And I was quickly corrected (both on the forum and from people at the office) for writing the wrong number.

The challenge with the NeoGAF format is that, because threads move so fast, posts disappear or get buried so people aren't reading everything. Maybe this part got lost:

I've stated - there is no possible way for

one

single person to know

every

detail about our platform. That means I need to go get the answers to the questions you guys ask sometimes. There's a lot I know first hand, and a lot I need to get updated on.

So people understand - I'm not dodging any of the follow-up. I actually stated the other night - there are a handful of people who asked some really legitimate follow-ups to understand what I posted. And I honestly said - I'm not the guy to answer at that level of detail. Out of respect for the people who are genuinely curious to learn how we derived those numbers, and to get the most technically accurate answers - the best course is to have the answers come from those engineers directly.

So we're working now on the best format to do that.

I still stand by what I stated (except for the aforementioned 204/218). In fact, some really interesting threads were going back and forth giving me even more excruciating detail behind those numbers based on the questions people asked.

I doubt it will take the format of an AMA, but I've collected a bunch of the follow-up questions. It may take a few weeks, but we'll be following-up on this for sure.

So now hopefully people will understand if I don't chime in further on these threads. If I've learned one thing from these last few days, it's that "

Penello's Miracle Equations

" will only be open for topics I have first-hand knowledge of. If I don't, I'm going to be more explicit about that in the future.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=81372357&postcount=632

Alright, I guess we'll find out if he stays true to his promise.