Storytelling in games is overrated?

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Whisperkill

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#1  Edited By Whisperkill

I was thinking, why do people love stories in games so much? Sure some of them can be interesting, but I can count on my fingers the number of games that told truly unique stories in a unique way only possible in video games.

Games like Portal or Shadow of the Colossus, that reveal the story through the gameplay is something that deserves praise, but a game like Mass Effect, Metal Gear, or any JRPG where the story is told through text, cutscenes and dialogue trees... really I dont care much about them.

If I want to enjoy a good story, i'll go watch a movie or read a fucking book, games rarely tell stories in a unique way and rarely tell stories that come close to being as good as one from a book.

Gameplay should come before story, or anything else.

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Fallen189

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#2  Edited By Fallen189

It's because people are ignorant and expect games to do everything for them nowadays.

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Bigandtasty

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#3  Edited By Bigandtasty

I agree that most games' stories are overrated. I like books better on that front because you always have room for imagination.


Sometimes there will be standout moments like the big reveal in Braid or Bioshock that get my attention but the overall story of those games weren't that great.
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MrMoonlight

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#4  Edited By MrMoonlight

In my opinion without the story there's nothing to keep me playing the game. Gameplay can get stale and boring but if there's a really good story behind it can make an average game a great game

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fuzzyponken

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#5  Edited By fuzzyponken
@MrMoonlight said:
" In my opinion without the story there's nothing to keep me playing the game. Gameplay can get stale and boring but if there's a really good story behind it can make an average game a great game "
I'm the other way around... mostly it's the story that gets stale and boring and good gameplay keeps me playing. Didn't you play games in the 8-bit era? What kept you playing then? 
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thefreshmaker

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#6  Edited By thefreshmaker

Wow, I could hardly disagree more with you.  Stories and characters in games are some of my favorite parts of video games.  Obviously gameplay trumps everything else, but an interesting story keeps me playing, and is what I truly remember about games long after everything else is forgotten.  And while I agree with the fact that most game stories could be just as good or better in a different entertainment medium, playing a video game makes YOU the hero.  It can make it a far more personal and active experience than movies or books can do.

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GunnBjorn

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#7  Edited By GunnBjorn

Most game stories can be categorized under the nomer 'The Bleeding Obvious'.
And that's exactly what i like in games.
Not too far-fetched or deep.
Not that i am against Good stories in games; Bioshock had an incredible story and i loved it.(My personal GOTY 2007)
I play Trine right now and it's story is, well... rather shallow.
But man, it's so much fun to play and it looks gorgeous!

But i must give it to you, i'd rather read a good book...
It's still the greatest and cheapest way to immerse into another world.

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AhmadMetallic

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#8  Edited By AhmadMetallic

You're kinda right, i get SICK of having to learn so much info for two fucking hours before i start playing the game, and they dont give you a chance to play they keep shitting new info all over the screen (by info i mean story and other things you have to read and memorize) ... i mean its fun for an RPG to have a certain story so that the gameplay would feel relevant but too much is TOO MUCH.


thats one of the main reasons i usually quit playing RPGs after a few hours.. like Mass Effect... what a mindfuck.

Still, a good story is needed to keep me interested. there arent THAT many games whos gameplay is dominant enough to keep me totally busy..


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nvmfst

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#9  Edited By nvmfst
@MrMoonlight said:
" In my opinion without the story there's nothing to keep me playing the game. Gameplay can get stale and boring but if there's a really good story behind it can make an average game a great game "
Right. I will not play a game if it does not have a story. That why I cannot play games like Team Fortress. Story over graphics any day. All I ask is that the game is playable.
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Whisperkill

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#10  Edited By Whisperkill

Well, story is good to keep you playing, but thats not the most important factor for me.

When I read previews for a game, or watch a trailer, the story isn't what I get excited over, its the gameplay, or the atmosphere.

Games have great moments of storytelling, but overall I become more immersed in a story in other mediums. Bioshock , The Darkness, Mass Effect, Metal Gear Solid, come to mind, when I say this.

I recently finished Indigo Prophecy and I couldn't stop thinking "There is NO reason why this should be a video game instead of something else. Its just a giant cutscene where you have to press buttons occasionally, and thats not why I play games"

I'd rather play something like Geometry Wars, a game with no narrative or story, but addicting gameplay, than IP... a game with an interesting story but no interesting gameplay.

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TyphoonSwell

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#11  Edited By TyphoonSwell

hehehehehehahahaahaHAHAHHAHAHAHHH!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!  NO U!

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fuzzyponken

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#12  Edited By fuzzyponken

To everyone who says they need a good story to play a game at all: Did you not play games on NES? Can you honestly say you gave a shit about Super Mario's or Megaman's stories? I didn't even speak english back then so I had no fucking idea what was going on. Gameplay is what mattered, and still is for me. 


Not to say a good story ain't the shit when it's done right. I wouldn't have finished GTAIV if the story wasn't so fuckgreat, the gameplay depressed me. 
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PureRok

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#13  Edited By PureRok
@MrMoonlight said:
" In my opinion without the story there's nothing to keep me playing the game. Gameplay can get stale and boring but if there's a really good story behind it can make an average game a great game "
I agree with this.

However, it completely depends on the genre. Platformers, fighters, and, to some extent, shooters don't really need a story. The story is the crux of an RPG, though. What's the point of playing an RPG that doesn't have some semblance of a story?

I don't think storytelling in games is overrated, but I do think some stories in certain games are overrated.
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KillaMaStA

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#14  Edited By KillaMaStA

The storytelling in most movies is crap too.

I like some stories in games.

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Jeust

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#15  Edited By Jeust
@fuzzyponken said:
" To everyone who says they need a good story to play a game at all: Did you not play games on NES? Can you honestly say you gave a shit about Super Mario's or Megaman's stories? I didn't even speak english back then so I had no fucking idea what was going on. Gameplay is what mattered, and still is for me. 

Not to say a good story ain't the shit when it's done right. I wouldn't have finished GTAIV if the story wasn't so fuckgreat, the gameplay depressed me. 
"
Noooo but i gave a shit about ninja gaiden's story in the NES.

It was great but that time's standards...
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FluxWaveZ

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#16  Edited By FluxWaveZ
@TheFreshmaker said:
" Wow, I could hardly disagree more with you.  Stories and characters in games are some of my favorite parts of video games.  Obviously gameplay trumps everything else, but an interesting story keeps me playing, and is what I truly remember about games long after everything else is forgotten.  And while I agree with the fact that most game stories could be just as good or better in a different entertainment medium, playing a video game makes YOU the hero.  It can make it a far more personal and active experience than movies or books can do. "
QFT.  Video games make you the hero, and therefore can make it your story.  The reason books or movies have better stories most of the time is because those don't focus on you being the main protagonist.  I don't like watching the action as much as me experiencing it in a way.  And even in a game where the protagonist is not represented as you, at least you can somewhat act out what you would do in that story.
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jeffgoldblum

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#17  Edited By jeffgoldblum
@Whisperkill said:
"Gameplay should come before story, or anything else. "
Gameplay is an important, but the issue is not that games are telling bad stories. The issue is that games are telling their stories wrong. Gaming usually tries to tell its stories in a very cinematic way with lavish cutscenes and the like. The problem is games are not movies. They are a brand new medium and they need to tell stories in their own way. Games like Portal, Shadow of the Colossus, and Half-Life are games that recognize this.
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Alex_V

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#18  Edited By Alex_V

I think if you substitute the word story with narrative, then it's easier to find a common thread between games with a traditional 'story' and games with an action or gameplay bias.

I have never believed there is a major distinction between hopping between platforms in Super Mario Bros, and the dialogue-heavy RPGs. They are both narratives with different journeys and outcomes which you have a hand in controlling. Some will like one form or approach better than another, but I don't think there is actually that much of a difference between them.

I read a good point from Clint Hocking (Far Cry 2) recently - to paraphrase him he said that if all games aspire to is to match the emotion of cinema or literature, then there's not really much point in the medium. His point being that games, at their best, do something which is 'different' from simply telling stories, and that is the reason that they are so special. To cheapen the experience into the "I like a good story" paradigm just doesn't do the medium justice.

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evanbrau

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#19  Edited By evanbrau
@JeffGoldblum: This is the correct answer. There is no point in any storytelling medium just trying to take on the characteristics of another. If games want to tell a story in a way that is new and engaging then they need to find a way of telling them that only a game can. For instance the reams of text in jrpgs is taking on the storytelling characteristics of a book and films and generally have what I consider to be the most boring and outright bad storytelling method of any genre. However a game like Half Life or especially Shadow of the Colossus knit gameplay and story together, they play directly into the main strength of gaming and that is that you are experiencing the events of the world not looking at them.
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Video_Game_King

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#20  Edited By Video_Game_King
@Bigandtasty said:
" I agree that most games' stories are overrated. I like books better on that front because you always have room for imagination.
Not exactly, since there's no creative freedom with a book. You're never going to these exotic places, you're just watching other people in them, and it always turns out the same, no matter how many times you read that. Many video games, on the other hand, actually allow you to create your own adventure. Besides, a lot of stories couldn't be replicated in other media without losing something important.
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Bigandtasty

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#21  Edited By Bigandtasty
@Video_Game_King: Well, games have their own flaws in storytelling, most of which are also pointed out in this thread. But yeah, different strokes, strengths and weaknesses.

I'm just a slight tinge biased against the whole "video games have epic storylines too" thing because a lot of those people just seem to be fanatical about their favorite game getting "accepted". Small steps people; let's be realistic about this.
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natetodamax

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#22  Edited By natetodamax

I think Bioshock hit the nail on the head by telling a great story through pretty much nothing but gameplay.

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Funzzo

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#23  Edited By Funzzo

Bioshock has a great story and spot on voice acting. Story is a big part of some games.  Good story and good gameplay are both vital in making a great game. 

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lebkin

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#24  Edited By lebkin
@fuzzyponken said:
" To everyone who says they need a good story to play a game at all: Did you not play games on NES? Can you honestly say you gave a shit about Super Mario's or Megaman's stories?"
No I did not play many games on the NES.  In part because I didn't "give a shit" about Super Mario's or Megaman's stories.  I much preferred play a game with a story. So in 1985 while you were playing Super Mario Bros, I was playing  King's Quest.  The story in KQ is not Shakespeare, but it had a story that kept me coming back, even in the frustrating parts.  Super Mario Bros is fun for a while, but not something I ever felt the need to strive at until completion.

Of course, striving for mechanical perfection is a perfectly valid pursuit in video games.  It impresses me when someone can beat Super Mario Bros in just a few minutes.  But that kind of gameplay isn't for me.
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Cerza

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#25  Edited By Cerza

As other posters have said, not every game type needs a story. Fighting games immediately come to mind here. However, story is important in games. It gives the game context. Without it you wind up with shit like Shaq Fu and Bad Dudes. "Help! The President has been kidnapped by ninjas!!! Are you a bad enough dude to save him?" <commence playing> God I am so glad that those days are behind us.

Edit: Another game that comes to mind here is the original Narc. I love that game, but every level seemed to be more random and screwed up than the last. Just as each new enemy you encountered was even more random and screwed up than the last, with the final boss being the most random of all. I mean seriously, what the hell Narc? I love you, but what the hell?

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Hairydutchman

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#26  Edited By Hairydutchman

Yeah games stories are usually not that great, but there are exceptions.  I'm playing Eternal Darkness at the moment and I love the games story and the structure in which it is told.

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Cassita

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#27  Edited By Cassita

Story is the most important aspect of a game. Without it, it would be like watching a movie, where all the characters do is go from place to place, engaging in irrelevant action scenes that add nothing to the experience.

I think the best example of stories importance in video games, comes from the continued existence of the adventure genre.

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#28  Edited By Jimbo

They [edit: 'NES games'] still had a story though didn't they?  Even games like Mario have needed some kind of story - no matter how nonsensical - to drive the gameplay along and give it context.  That's the difference really:  In a book, the story exists for it's own sake, in (most) games the story exists, primarily, to give context to the gameplay.  Games in which the story is the main emphasis, generally offer a unique experience from books and movies, in that you can affect the storyline by your choices and actions.

Also, rewarding the player will always be a necessary part of game design.  That's typically achieved by: character progression (inc. loot), seeing the next part of the story unfold, straight up victory over another in competition (bragging rights), or a combination of those things.

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AndrewB

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#29  Edited By AndrewB
@Whisperkill said:
"really I dont care much about them."
You might not, but I certainly do.
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Torrim

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#30  Edited By Torrim

Games have an alternative way to present a story, by first person exploration or moral choice. Go ahead, go read a book.   The stories in them are probably better, but I'm not playing video games only to experience a well written story.  It's the combination of playability, fun, graphic design, and probably lots of other aspects I'm leaving out that make games unique and why I consider them separate from movies and books- and want them to be.

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fuzzyponken

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#31  Edited By fuzzyponken

I think we can close the book on this one: Games in which the story is told in such a way it wouldn't be possible to replicate the experience in film or book are good. All JRPGs are shit. 

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The_Ish

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#32  Edited By The_Ish

Screw stories. I demand more Counter-Strikes and Counter-Strike ripoffs made by every company in every country forever.



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LiquidPrince

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#33  Edited By LiquidPrince

If a game doesn't have a good story, I probably won't play it, or buy it.  Story is everything. Good gameplay is nothing without a good story. This is of course excluding online only games or mini games.

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mordukai

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#34  Edited By mordukai
@Whisperkill said:
" I was thinking, why do people love stories in games so much? Sure some of them can be interesting, but I can count on my fingers the number of games that told truly unique stories in a unique way only possible in video games.Games like Portal or Shadow of the Colossus, that reveal the story through the gameplay is something that deserves praise, but a game like Mass Effect, Metal Gear, or any JRPG where the story is told through text, cutscenes and dialogue trees... really I dont care much about them.If I want to enjoy a good story, i'll go watch a movie or read a fucking book, games rarely tell stories in a unique way and rarely tell stories that come close to being as good as one from a book.Gameplay should come before story, or anything else. "
Obviously you never played System Shock 2, Planescape: Torment, Thief 2. Are you just scarred because the Ghost in the Shell game was crappy?
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animateria

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#35  Edited By animateria

I don't think storytelling in games are over-rated.

I think some games are over-rated in their story.

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citizenkane

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#36  Edited By citizenkane

Good storytelling can never be overrated.  Ever.

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asurastrike

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#37  Edited By asurastrike
@fuzzyponken said:
" To everyone who says they need a good story to play a game at all: Did you not play games on NES? Can you honestly say you gave a shit about Super Mario's or Megaman's stories? I didn't even speak english back then so I had no fucking idea what was going on. Gameplay is what mattered, and still is for me. 

Not to say a good story ain't the shit when it's done right. I wouldn't have finished GTAIV if the story wasn't so fuckgreat, the gameplay depressed me. 
"
If a game doesn't have a good story I won't spend more than an hour or so playing it. Your example of NES games doesn't really compare to the games we have now where we put in 20+ hours into a game. If you go back and play those old NES games now, most of them can be beaten in an hour.
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animateria

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#38  Edited By animateria
@Asurastrike said:
" @fuzzyponken said:
" To everyone who says they need a good story to play a game at all: Did you not play games on NES? Can you honestly say you gave a shit about Super Mario's or Megaman's stories? I didn't even speak english back then so I had no fucking idea what was going on. Gameplay is what mattered, and still is for me. 

Not to say a good story ain't the shit when it's done right. I wouldn't have finished GTAIV if the story wasn't so fuckgreat, the gameplay depressed me. 
"
If a game doesn't have a good story I won't spend more than an hour or so playing it. Your example of NES games doesn't really compare to the games we have now where we put in 20+ hours into a game. If you go back and play those old NES games now, most of them can be beaten in an hour. "

I've spent over 100 hours in Monster Hunter Freedom Unite, which doesn't even bother with a storyline (minus the mission flavor text). It actually surprises me because a little here and there adds up!

I generally beat games with good storylines in 20-40 hours. (Exceptions are GTA:VC, SA, and 4, Oblivion, etc... those took around 80ish hours, of course I screw around a lot too though)

I don't think hours count as much. Whether I spend 1 hour, 20 hours or 100 hours, a good game is a good game.


Anyways, lot of NES era games stem from arcade games (not that they were all ports, but the ideas behind them, limited continues and the whole '# of lives' thing for example), which aren't meant to be played for such long hours in the first place.


I think its a matter of personal taste on how much story matters in the end. It's negligence or excellence doesn't make or break the game on its own.
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bulletbeast

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#39  Edited By bulletbeast

Dude, stories in games can be amazing. True, most of the time the game stories are crap but thats just cus most people just wanna fire a gun. but  mean every now and again u get a game with a brilliant storyline. i personally play a game for the cinematics

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Illmatic

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#40  Edited By Illmatic

I rarely remember the stories to games I've played after playing them. I remember the story of Mass Effect because it was my first experience with a Star Trek type universe (never was interested in the show). Zelda interests me more for the environment than the actual plot. It's funny when I hear a PR person describe the story of a game whenever being interviewed as many times it'll boil down to "save the day" and "you're badass" but they hold my attention enough to play through the game sometimes so I'm fine with mediocre stories.

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maxszy

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#41  Edited By maxszy
@Whisperkill said:
" I was thinking, why do people love stories in games so much? Sure some of them can be interesting, but I can count on my fingers the number of games that told truly unique stories in a unique way only possible in video games.Games like Portal or Shadow of the Colossus, that reveal the story through the gameplay is something that deserves praise, but a game like Mass Effect, Metal Gear, or any JRPG where the story is told through text, cutscenes and dialogue trees... really I dont care much about them.If I want to enjoy a good story, i'll go watch a movie or read a fucking book, games rarely tell stories in a unique way and rarely tell stories that come close to being as good as one from a book.GameplayWhat should come before story, or anything else. "
And its people and thoughts like this that make me frustrated. Stories in games are important, and some of us out here love the stories through cutscences and text if its good. A good story is engrossing, and captivating and if put in game form, it is incredibly exciting.

Its ok for you not to like them, but to basically crisize and say the story in Mass Effect or Lost Odyssey for example was told horribly and that its not as good as what a book can be, is ridiculous. There are numerous examples of good storytelling in games. No, not quite to the quality of books yet but we are getting there and there are those of us out here that love that about games.

So go ahead and just not play those games with story, but let them concentrate on still making games with a good story for those of us who enjoy it!

In the end I would play a game with just average gameplay but an incredible story over a game with great gameplay but a horrid story. That's just me though.
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Akeldama

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#42  Edited By Akeldama
@TheFreshmaker said:
" Wow, I could hardly disagree more with you.  Stories and characters in games are some of my favorite parts of video games.  Obviously gameplay trumps everything else, but an interesting story keeps me playing, and is what I truly remember about games long after everything else is forgotten.  And while I agree with the fact that most game stories could be just as good or better in a different entertainment medium, playing a video game makes YOU the hero.  It can make it a far more personal and active experience than movies or books can do. "
exactly.
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Lost_In_Gaming

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#43  Edited By Lost_In_Gaming

I treat stories in games like I do in any other storytelling medium.  If it is captivating me and keeps me playing then it's good.  Much like a book that keeps me turning the pages or a television show that makes me want to do anything in order to find out "what happens next".

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WilliamRLBaker

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#44  Edited By WilliamRLBaker

NO?
I love stories if a game doesn't have alteast a good story then its not worth squat.

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Origina1Penguin

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#45  Edited By Origina1Penguin

The problem is that most games are not very good at telling a great story.  So maybe certain stories told in video games are overrated, butthe concept of using a video game to tell a story is certainly not overrated.

That doesn't mean I think a great story is necessary, or any plot for that matter.  I'm going to reach back to gaming roots and point out TetrisFun is all that really matters.  If a game tells a story but is not fun (or does not even attempt it), then I don't consider it a game.  At that point, it becomes interactive artwork.  For example, I consider The Path and The Graveyard to be interactive art instead of games.  I personally do not find them fun and I don't think they are necessarily trying to be so, but they do imply stories or information that you experience instead of being fed directly.

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Whisperkill

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#46  Edited By Whisperkill
@Mordukai said:
"@Whisperkill said:
" I was thinking, why do people love stories in games so much? Sure some of them can be interesting, but I can count on my fingers the number of games that told truly unique stories in a unique way only possible in video games.Games like Portal or Shadow of the Colossus, that reveal the story through the gameplay is something that deserves praise, but a game like Mass Effect, Metal Gear, or any JRPG where the story is told through text, cutscenes and dialogue trees... really I dont care much about them.If I want to enjoy a good story, i'll go watch a movie or read a fucking book, games rarely tell stories in a unique way and rarely tell stories that come close to being as good as one from a book.Gameplay should come before story, or anything else. "
Obviously you never played System Shock 2, Planescape: Torment, Thief 2. Are you just scarred because the Ghost in the Shell game was crappy?
"

never even heard of the game, but the the 1st season of the anime did indeed have an amazing story, as did the movie
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JoelTGM

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#47  Edited By JoelTGM

Stories help make the same old shooters and RPGs more fresh and interesting.  It's fun.

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Snail

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#48  Edited By Snail

I think that without a story a game is no more than an arcade machine.

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fuzzyponken

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#49  Edited By fuzzyponken

I gotta say I'm surprised how many people won't even play a game without a good story. Considering I've played perhaps 5 games in my life with stories and storytelling comparable to that of other mediums in terms of overall quality. Your standards must be low as fuck. 

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#50  Edited By sjschmidt93

In my opinion, the only good story in games would....


wait for it...

Meeetaaal Geeaar!

Oh yeah, and Resident Evil's story isn't terrible.