The amount of female game developers seems to be decreasing

despite the demands for change from the feminist world.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/sites/computerworld.com/files/u28/women2.jpg

http://blogs.computerworld.com/it-careers/21993/women-computer-science-visual-trendline

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/business/16digi.html

When one looks at computer science in particular, however, the proportion of women has been falling. In 2001-2, only 28 percent of all undergraduate degrees in computer science went to women. By 2004-5, the number had declined to only 22 percent.

Since 2005 that percentage has fallen into the teens.

This is the pool of people that the game developers are drawing from. It just doesn't make sense to expect the % of women game developers to increase significantly in the next few years if the pool they are drawing from for new talent has seen the proportion of women decline by about a third since 2000 and about half since the 80's.

Seems like women have as much right as men to pursue the careers they desire. These numbers mean very little to me. Are we dancing around this to imply that men aren't allowing women to stay in the industry? I think that would be worth talking about if evidence existed. If it's possible to have too few women in gaming then that means its also possible to have too many. I'm arguing ironically of course but our overwhelming male dominant feminine ego stroking does nothing when we view the contribution of female devs as a number to balance so we can feel good about ourselves. Let women and men all pursue their passions whether or not it is ever a 50/50 split is irrelevant.

Do we have the raw numbers instead of the percentages? I'm thinking that maybe the number of women getting computer science degrees/entering the game industry is increasing, but not as quickly as men are.

The dirty secret is that video game development itself is highly stressful and risky compared to other forms of software development. Man or woman, you can find a very rewarding job and a much steadier paycheck at some "normal" software development position.

When I took my game design class there were only 2-3 women out of like 25 students, and by the end of the final semester there weren't any.

That and not all roles in game development require computer science degrees.

@fluttershy_xxx: It seems a bit spurious to make claims about "female game developers" when your sources are only talking about Computer Science college graduates in general. Many devs male or female or other, don't have a CS degree.

Also, the article you reference is from 6 years ago. This lack of any hard, current data makes it hard to have this conversation be at all productive.

@fluttershy_xxx: @joshwentmakes great points about the source article/data. Also, while seeing the percent of female game developers rise would be nice, I think that most people would rather see the culture of game development (and gaming in general) become more inclusive/welcoming to women, period. Just last week we saw a major tournament for a hugely popular game banning women participants, and a quick google search will reveal volumes of female devs relating their horror stories from interactions with game development/marketing/enthusiasts (that's the ones who choose to speak out. There is also a well documented problem where female devs/journos feel that if they speak out they will be putting their career or personal safety at risk). Honestly, there is a weird knee-jerk reaction that a portion of the gaming community (for lack of a better descriptor) has as soon as you start talking about including more women in this sphere (your opening line "despite the demands for change from the feminist world" is a great example). At the end of the day it seems like one side of this argument is just saying "this industry could treat women better, and that might make the industry better" and the other side gets very indignant at the suggestion.

This looks like stats for computer science majors.

People with computer science degrees do not equal game developers.

And not all game developers have computer science degrees.

IGDA actually says the number of women are increasing.

I'm reminded of the Women's Studies major behind her podium decreeing that more women need to be in math and science.

Guys, in light of the week we've had, a gentle reminder that dismissive, rude, sarcastic, condescending, or otherwise disruptive posts in threads like these will be terminated with extreme prejudice. If anyone sees a topic like this and decides "hey, here's my chance to be an asshole," then rest assured: that time is past. Moderators will have the last word in terms of what posts are deleted or how forum rules are interpreted, and of course we reserve the right to lock any thread if the discussion goes off-course. Seriously not in the mood for this to be a shitty thread right now.

And if your reaction to this post is "OMG NAZI MODS WTF FREEDOM OF SPEECH," then, seriously, don't even bother posting. Come to me if you have concerns about moderation policies, but rest assured, given the reaction we've had to threads, articles, and other pieces of content on the site like this over the last year or more, we are well past time for some refreshment to our moderation policies, and I'm not talking about loosening the reins.

@differenceengine: Do not come into threads asking why anyone cares about a topic. If you don't care, don't post. Pretty simple.

@sinusoidal: There's a homepage post you can read if you like. I'm sure other websites can fill you in. This thread isn't a place for a recap.

@xolare: It's a topic of interest to many people. If it doesn't matter to you, don't post in this thread.

@fluttershy_xxx: I don't see any mention of game development in any of those articles. Plenty of people in the game development field aren't CS grads; I wasn't, and Alex wasn't when he was at Harmonix, and the bulk of the people I worked with weren't. I think you're making a weird assumption with your headline and those links.

I believe it starts earlier than that. The last article points out that "the younger the better" when it comes to introducing girls into computer science. I was mucking around with a TI-99\A as a wee lass and ended up in IT and have been working in Web development for...12 years (man that makes me feel olde.) Maybe I'm lucky, but working with IT guys (and gals!) in the work environment has been super great. The only time I ran into static was once in college. And considering the number of people I've worked with in classes and through work, one person being a goober really isn't that bad. And I totally agree with you that we don't need a 50/50 split - women should not be forced into the industry through diversity practices, but they should feel comfortable to choose comp sci if it makes their skirt fly up.

There's a group called "Girls Develop It" that helps support girls wanting to get into IT that's country-wide. I should really volunteer for that - maybe this thread was just what I needed to get that push!

I think it's important to note that computer science degrees are not a required prerequisite to be a part of the game industry. They can help get your foot in the door in some cases, true, but not every development position in the industry explicitly requires programming knowledge.

Maybe they're just not interested

Most women in the gaming industry I've known don't have computer science degrees; so, the basis of this seems inherently faulty. It may be anecdotal, but at least in my experience in the last decade, I've seen more women getting into it than in the past. A lot of women have felt more able to express their open interest in gaming and development, as well.

There are plenty of women out there who enjoy games and are interested in working on them. That they are still a much lower percentage of those out there in the job market than their relative percentage of the population is likely more indicative of the continued challenges with making it seem like a viable option for women than a real lack of interest.

@wolfgame said:

This is all anecdotal, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt, but my experience is that women are systemically discouraged from pursuing a career in IT.

When I was in secondary school, which by all accounts is the just about the perfect time and place to instil a passion for CS, all technically-minded classes were counter programmed against things like home economics. The assumption was that boys do one, and girls do the other. Since no-one wanted to be the only kid of their gender in a class, that's exactly what happened. It was no surprise that when I went on to study CS at university, there were only two women in my class of 30. I remember mocking them. In one of my first full-time jobs, the numbers were a little better — out of around 25 engineers, there were 5 women. However, despite being among the most talented programmers at the company, most of them were relegated to support roles like QA engineer, all of which were on a crappier pay scale with way worse promotion prospects. I don't think it was intentional, but clearly they were being marginalised.

Based on how old the links provided are, and the misleading nature of the thread title and topic itself, I'm just going to close this now.

If you want to start a discussion like this, please be prepared to back up your ideas with something other than ten year old links, or at least stick around to actively participate in the discussion rather than just dropping a hot button issue and then disappearing.