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#101 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (2564 posts) -

@monkeyking1969: What are you _talking_ about?! There's all these videos criticizing the rhetoric and the logic and the evidence of Anita Sarkeesian's videos, but they're not proposing an alternate point of view? They're just 'kicking her in the shins'? Over what? Over her fallacious logic and hypocritical rhetoric? Criticism that she never responds to, instead engaging with the trolls who send trolling messages? 'Friendly inquisitive debate'? Why not real debate, where friendliness has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to construct an argument attained by evidence presented?

I'm just really confused. What about making a counterargument that directly contradicts and refutes her propositions is NOT engaging with her?

You seemingly cannot even start to have a civil and calm conversation with me. Such anger does you no good, and certainly does not strengthen your point of view. If you want to fight; sorry, I'm not interested.

#102 Edited by GreggD (4477 posts) -

@brodehouse said:

@monkeyking1969: What are you _talking_ about?! There's all these videos criticizing the rhetoric and the logic and the evidence of Anita Sarkeesian's videos, but they're not proposing an alternate point of view? They're just 'kicking her in the shins'? Over what? Over her fallacious logic and hypocritical rhetoric? Criticism that she never responds to, instead engaging with the trolls who send trolling messages? 'Friendly inquisitive debate'? Why not real debate, where friendliness has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to construct an argument attained by evidence presented?

I'm just really confused. What about making a counterargument that directly contradicts and refutes her propositions is NOT engaging with her?

You seemingly cannot even start to have a civil and calm conversation with me. Such anger does you no good, and certainly does not strengthen your point of view. If you want to fight; sorry, I'm not interested.

That's not a fight, there's legitimate questions in there that you should have answers for, if you're going to take sides in the overall discussion. The fact that you took it as aggressive as you did says a lot about how far people are actually willing to go in this discourse.

#103 Posted by Brodehouse (9585 posts) -

@monkeyking1969: What anger are you talking about? What about asking you a series of questions do you feel is not 'calm and civil'?

It sounds less like you want a debate and more like you don't want people to disagree with you.

#104 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@sammo21 said:

I was told by a few women who I asked this to on Facebook (that I personally know) what they thought and she said that men don't really have body types thrown at them and only women do. I was also told that since women get eating disorders from self esteem and body issues that men do not even though I personally know men who DO and I also linked several studies showing 1 in 4 men suffer from eating disorders related to the same problems.

Are body issues larger for women? Yeah, but modern feminism is such that if you do not agree 100% with their argument then you are "a troll" and they try to make your argument illegitimate. Anita Sarkeesian may have good intentions but since she only ever calls out trolls and never has an actual debate with anyone intelligent, well read, and respectable she only ever comes off as wanting softballs thrown her way so she looks victorious. Not to mention her web videos haven't talked about or shown things that have been beaten to death with no new, original, or increasingly thought provoking commentary from her side or opinion. That's my problem. I don't hate her, I just think her work comes across as lazy and old hat. If she wants to throw it in my face that this industry is sexist then she needs to find new material and not everything I already know.

Yeah these problems are becoming bigger and bigger for men as well. But this answer really does not surprise me. I bet she also thinks that domestic violence is mostly an women issue while in reality it is almost evenly split. Yes men are hitting harder but women are hitting more often. These are one of the reasons I think feminism is outdated. These kind of problems becoming also more and more relevant for men and we should care for both gender not not mostly for only one.

#105 Posted by Video_Game_King (36000 posts) -

@darji said:

These kind of problems becoming also more and more relevant for men and we should care for both gender not not mostly for only one.

That's not anywhere in feminism.

Online
#106 Edited by GreggD (4477 posts) -

@darji said:

These kind of problems becoming also more and more relevant for men and we should care for both gender not not mostly for only one.

That's not anywhere in feminism.

A case could be made that there are a lot of feminists out there (and I know this is true, they have been around since the movement's birth) who focus solely on female issues, and dismiss male ones. There's some truth to that, though obviously not all feminists believe that way. Like any group, there are those who take the radical approach, which I'm sure is who Darji is referring to. He tends to not get his points across succinctly or with any type of grace, but I can clearly tell where he's coming from this time.

#107 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@video_game_king said:

@darji said:

These kind of problems becoming also more and more relevant for men and we should care for both gender not not mostly for only one.

That's not anywhere in feminism.

Yes it is. They fight for the rights mostly for women. At least most of them. Even if you go to a site people here have linked quite often already.

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Feminism_101

Feminism is a movement which seeks respect and equality for women both under law and culturally.

Although improvements have been made, particularly in the last 50-100 years, people of different genders are not always treated equally. Our social, economic, and political systems are systematically biased against women in many different ways. Some of these systematic biases against women have the side effect of harming people of other genders, but they are still biases against women.

Feminists come in all shapes, sizes, colours, and genders. There is likewise a wide range of political thought and ways of expressing feminism. Not all feminists think alike, but if you support the idea of respect and equality for women, then you are a feminist.

This is what most people think feminism is and what most feminists are. This is what people teach you at women studies in Universities and so on. And that is why its outdated and many feminists actually switch to Egalitarianism

#108 Posted by Video_Game_King (36000 posts) -

@darji said:

@video_game_king said:

@darji said:

These kind of problems becoming also more and more relevant for men and we should care for both gender not not mostly for only one.

That's not anywhere in feminism.

Yes it is. They fight for the rights mostly for women. At least most of them.

Because they've traditionally been a group that have been deprived of their rights. They're trying to level themselves up to men (for lack of better phrasing); not ignoring problems that men may experience, as well.

And that is why its outdated and many feminists actually switch to Egalitarianism

Feminism is a form of egalitarianism; it's concerned with gender equality. Hell, your quote says as much.

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#109 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@darji said:

@video_game_king said:

@darji said:

These kind of problems becoming also more and more relevant for men and we should care for both gender not not mostly for only one.

That's not anywhere in feminism.

Yes it is. They fight for the rights mostly for women. At least most of them.

Because they've traditionally been a group that have been deprived of their rights. They're trying to level themselves up to men (for lack of better phrasing); not ignoring problems that men may experience, as well.

And that is why its outdated and many feminists actually switch to Egalitarianism

Feminism is a form of egalitarianism; it's concerned with gender equality. Hell, your quote says as much.

Most of them are not And the name feminism alone is telling you that even on Wikipedia the first sentence you see is this here:

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for womenThis includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women

Yes not everyone is like that but the general majority is like that and that is why it is a problem. But enough with that because it is too of topic and has nothing really to do anymore with this topic.