#1 Posted by shinjin977 (754 posts) -

So over the last couple of days I have heard a lot of people in the industry come out and say really disrespectful shit about the so call "Core-Gamers". The leading insults seems to be "oh they can like something all they want but at the end of the day they don't matter". I don't personally think this is true but lets not get stuck on that. Why the hell are try treating their own leading/first adopters/die-hard fans as this negligible sections of the audience? Are people in the industry so full of themselves as to say "fuck you if your not happy go somewhere else"?

I work in the industry as well but this type of dialogue towards our own customers is utterly disappointing, what the hell is going on in this industry. Is it hubris? Being defensive? I can not fathom. What do you think Bombers?

#2 Posted by Breadfan (6589 posts) -

I think it's because big gaming companies know the customer will always come back to them. The video game community is incredibly vocal about certain matters and eventually folds in on itself. EA at E3 was a perfect example of this. Just a few weeks ago the hatred being spewed at EA was super harsh, but that all immediately changed when they announced a new Star Wars Battlefront and a new Mirrors Edge. People really need to put their money where their mouths are if they want the industry to take them seriously.

#3 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
#4 Posted by Tru3_Blu3 (3201 posts) -

Making games is expensive, so a lot of developers and publishers are really confused as to why games don't sell well and why they do, leading to subjugation and false conclusions of their audience. It's just not simple anymore like it was in the past where game-playing-people (can't say "gamers" because it's a despicable word on this site for some reason) were just that. Fans and tastes weren't yet established, and the game industry was yet to become entirely mainstream.

Now that there's a large audience and the quality of games have upped, increasing production costs and draconian competition, publishers are really, really scared and confused as to how they aim for their player base. I think they don't intend insult; I think they just don't understand their audience yet.

/end of uneducated opinion

#5 Posted by shinjin977 (754 posts) -

@video_game_king: I don't know why being an otaku is a bad thing. I fly back and forth between japan-us all year long and the media in japan paint otaku as rejects the same way Fox news paint democrats.

#6 Edited by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@shinjin977:

It's just that a lot of the problems people have with Japanese games/entertainment can be traced back to companies over there catering to a very small audience with a lot of discretionary income. That's an inherent risk tied to catering to a niche audience: their tastes are so limited that they end up alienating many other types of audiences.

#7 Edited by EquitasInvictus (2020 posts) -

As big as gaming is, I would think most "core," outspoken gamers are outnumbered by casual gamers, parents, and general consumers who are probably easier to sway and more likely to throw money at them if they play their cards right.

Now that I think of it, I wonder what are the statistics of core gamer purchases vs. general consumer purchases of video games. That'd probably provide a lot of insight to this discussion.

#8 Posted by shinjin977 (754 posts) -
#9 Posted by Slag (4222 posts) -

@shinjin977:

I wish more visible people in your industry were like you.

I think it's a real problem in the industry right now. There seems to be this feeling of entitlement on the part of some of the industry that leads to some very unrealistic expectations. It's leading to a massive disconnect between the industry and their customers. Which is ultimately going to cost companies who have this problem (EA, M$) untold millions of dollars.

What I mean by entitlement is perfectly exemplified by the Used Game debate. You see a lot of developer come out very strongly against used games. The reason being is that it "robs them of New game sales". Which leads to them taking positions and making statements that treat some of their most passionate consumers like criminals. That is a very poor assumption that most independent marketing studies do not support as being true for a variety of reasons.

But even if that were true, that is not the smart way to handle that publicly. The right way to handle it is the Miyamoto and Valve attempt to handle it. While it's debatable how effective their solutions are or how well they execute them (Nintendo generally attempts to add value, while Valve tends to lower price), what they they both do right is they never use language that blames their customers for these kinds of problems.

Some in the industry seem to have forgotten that they would not exist without their customers. There is a major disconnect between the real world consumer market and developers it seems. I'm not sure why. I don't know if it's related to who is working in the industry, maybe the excessively long hours people have to work, the stress of so many studio closures and resulting job instability, or the fact the population is growing so fast that lost customers are outnumbered by new young ones do the industry doesn't realize it's losing people. But Somehow some guys like CliffyB seems to have lost the basic understanding of how their own customer views them.

Whatever it is the industry needs to realize they are competing for consumer entertainment dollars and if they don't treat their customers and their wants with respect, they might lose them to other entertainment options.

#10 Posted by owlmassive (67 posts) -

A very good friend of mine works for ubisoft Montreal team, the hours and days he works like every other developer is insane and yet at the end of the day he is just like me and you "gamer"

But then you get these well paid execs and middle men that thibk they know whats best and starts stereo typing everyone, they must remember its our money that created their job for the develipers like my mate to continue working their ass off for us

#11 Posted by Brodehouse (9778 posts) -

In 83 posts you've complained about not receiving your proper respect or how you feel slighted by some company probably 60 times. Certainly feels like I can set my watch by your latest appeal to populism.

#12 Edited by zombie2011 (4972 posts) -

Hardcore gamers are a bunch of man babies who believe they are entitled to everything. I really hope MS locks up tons of exclusive games/DLC and the Xbox sells well just to make these people see how they really don't matter when compared to the masses.

MS, Sony, Nintendo I don't give a fuck who sells more as long as they are profitable and still have the ability to make/publish games.

#13 Posted by DuhQbnSiLo (2139 posts) -

@breadfan said:

I think it's because big gaming companies know the customer will always come back to them. The video game community is incredibly vocal about certain matters and eventually folds in on itself. EA at E3 was a perfect example of this. Just a few weeks ago the hatred being spewed at EA was super harsh, but that all immediately changed when they announced a new Star Wars Battlefront and a new Mirrors Edge. People really need to put their money where their mouths are if they want the industry to take them seriously.

Gamers can't be away from their crack! But seriously, this man is right. I agree 100% Now if gamers can actually vote with their money and not buy things they don't support.

#14 Edited by shinjin977 (754 posts) -

@brodehouse: I feel I have never shy away from my anti-corporation stance in any of my post and I do not remember ever telling anyone to give me respect. Hell out of all of my post I think I talk about myself maybe 2-4 times. And I certainly do not try to appeal to the popular opinion, I mean I was defend G. Kamitani in that Dragon Crown thing. I actually don't know what to make of your comment, I apologize for causing your annoyance......i guess.

#15 Edited by HerbieBug (4212 posts) -

@breadfan said:

I think it's because big gaming companies know the customer will always come back to them.

That isn't historically true in this industry. Many consoles and related game devices through the years have fallen flat on their face for assuming a certain degree of "guaranteed" sales from a particular demographic. Currently, I think industry PR is of the opinion that "core" video game audience is smaller than it actually is. That is probably because of the Wii sales numbers. People starting to think that Wii sales are indicative of the size of the casual market. The problem with that is that Wii hit social fad status and squeezed sales from parts of the consumer base who had never purchased a console before and may never purchase another again. It's like marketing all future talking muppets toys based on assumptions derived from Tickle Me Elmo sales numbers.

#16 Posted by Brodehouse (9778 posts) -

@shinjin977: Being anti-corporate when it comes to the use of public money is commendable, being anti-corporate because they're in the business of making money (or the business of doing business) is just populist sabre rattling and we are full up on that. That's not even bringing up the unverified, non-falsifiable statements that establish the industry as assholes and their customers as poor victims beset by ignominy. We consumers are not in fact powerless, we in fact control everything that happens in this industry, but you're so caught up in having 'what we think' that you miss out that it's 'what we pay for'. Someone who says they can like something all they want but at the end of the day it doesn't matter is perfectly accurate in their statement. Because I see gamers ooze praise on games they don't buy and heap scorn on games they purchase without fail. The only thing that actually matters is what changes the bottom line, and gamers are typically acting like Goddamn junkies who line up with their money ready so they can wail and scream and smear shit on the forum walls.

(Though perhaps it's just been a long week and I'm taking it out on you. If so I apologize)

#17 Edited by Slag (4222 posts) -

@shinjin977: here's a great article I read on gameindustry.biz today.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-06-14-the-xbox-one-question-why-did-microsoft-do-it

Gives plausible insight into why Microsoft has been so tone-def with their launch, big corps like that sometimes become very insular and as result become echo chambers of what higher ups want to hear.

again I don't think the industry perception is ill intended, just that some companies like EA and Microsoft are out of touch with the consumer market. Which can lead to a sense of false entitlement.

Being in-touch doesn't guarantee success, but it helps especially in the long term.

#18 Edited by Jimbo (9797 posts) -

@brodehouse: You realise 'gamers' aren't all the same person, right?

#19 Edited by Brodehouse (9778 posts) -

@jimbo said:

@brodehouse: You realise 'gamers' aren't all the same person, right?

Wouldn't I realize that by default? Unless I'm also paying for things that I complain about. Feeling eternally cheated by people I willingly give money to.

Technically, I did purchase Resident Evil 6, so I guess I am part of the problem. But that was a train wreck worth seeing.

#20 Edited by shinjin977 (754 posts) -

@brodehouse: Not at all friend. This is the type of answers and insight I wanted when I decided to take part in this community. There are of cause no absolute right or wrong answer but for a person who work in the industry like myself, any and all types of ideas/feedback/comments/feelings are valuable tools to help remind myself why I am here. It has been a long week for us all but over all its been a great week for gamers.

#21 Edited by YukoAsho (2014 posts) -

@breadfan said:

I think it's because big gaming companies know the customer will always come back to them. The video game community is incredibly vocal about certain matters and eventually folds in on itself. EA at E3 was a perfect example of this. Just a few weeks ago the hatred being spewed at EA was super harsh, but that all immediately changed when they announced a new Star Wars Battlefront and a new Mirrors Edge. People really need to put their money where their mouths are if they want the industry to take them seriously.

Gamers can't be away from their crack! But seriously, this man is right. I agree 100% Now if gamers can actually vote with their money and not buy things they don't support.

Yeah, I get the feeling often that I'm one of the few people on gaming forums that realizes that it's OK to spend your money elsewhere.

This, however, isn't really often manifested in the real world. Let's be honest, the things that get people on the net pissy aren't usually things anyone cares about in the real world. While people on forums might rage about CoD map packs, there are probably as many people who've bought them or not bought them in a completely quiet manner. Online passes clearly proved unpopular and ineffective in the market, which is why seemingly everyone has abandoned them save for Ubisoft, and I've no doubt that the Xbone will suffer for its limits and unneeded complication.

The fact is simply that companies tend to "get away" with things that slight forumites because very few of these things are legitimate complaints.

#22 Posted by vucub88 (20 posts) -

Here's my take on it, (I'm mostly referencing MS) yes there may be more money in the mainstream audience but that's not who is hearing all this messaging that companies are putting out. Sure, the features of the xbox one may be super attractive to parents but most of the parents (non gamer) that I talk to at my job (I'll let you guess. Hint: stop here to get games) have not heard seen any of those conferences. Do you know how they are hearing about the xbox one (or not hearing about it)? Me, a core gamer who is disappointed with what he is seeing from MS. Sure, technically we aren't supposed to take sides at this unnamed store but the majority of the people employed are core gamers and there is something else to sell them on preordering that's cheaper (big factor to parents). As much as unnamed store is hated, we still drive a large share of sale of systems. So yeah maybe the core audience is small but our influence goes beyond us. I may never buy either system for financial reasons but I will likely sell a lot of next gen systems and I know which way I'll likely push people.