The Wii - it's becoming vastly underrated. (P. 1)

    Many people see broken promises in the Wii. When they were promised 1:1, they got waggle. When they were promised cutting edge, they got Gamecube+. When they were promised full online support, they got friend codes. People see the misstep after misstep on Nintendo's behalf, and they call the Wii "not a console", "a toy" or "a 250 dollar dust collector." Harsh words when spoken by some. I won't even try to deny that the current control system on Wii is more precise than a dual joystick pad, nor will I deny that the Wii's technical prowess is that of a gamecube with better lighting effects. I also won't deny that the online system on the Wii needs an overhaul. However, people's hate for the system may leave it as not only the most underrated console of the generation, but the most underrated console ever.

    Many people see broken promises in the Wii. When they were promised 1:1, they got waggle. When they were promised cutting edge, they got Gamecube+. When they were promised full online support, they got friend codes. People see the misstep after misstep on Nintendo's behalf, and they call the Wii "not a console", "a toy" or "a 250 dollar dust collector." Harsh words when spoken by some. I won't even try to deny that the current control system on Wii is more precise than a dual joystick pad, nor will I deny that the Wii's technical prowess is that of a gamecube with better lighting effects. I also won't deny that the online system on the Wii needs an overhaul. However, people's hate for the system may leave it as not only the most underrated console of the generation, but the most underrated console ever.

The problem isn't the Wii, it's the people making games for the Wii.

Wow, seriously?

"The problem isn't the Wii, it's the people making games for the Wii."

I disagree. 
The Wii just isn't that good.  It's the console itself any the developers.  On the developers part, there just aren't enough good games.  I find myself searching for wii games, basically making excuses to buy them.  I wouldn't have bought MOH Heroes if it were on another console.  I continuosly find myself looking for games on the wii. With the 360 and even Ps3 I'm flooded by games.  I cannot keep up.  And if you're a wii only owner you might not understand what this means.  By this I mean there's like 4 games every month I want.  Obviously I cannot get them all, so I settle for the best of the best and most unique.  The best wii game is by far metroid prime 3 for the record. 

And as for the console itself, its weak.  Believe it or not, I like graphics.  I like seeing pretty things in my game.  There's a grand difference between technical beauty and pure aesthetic beauty.  The wii cannot deliver on either of these things.

And I find it funny you bashing Too Human because, to be honest, I'd much rather play that than most Wii games. 


And you're Halo 3 comparison is awful. There's tons of differences between it and Halo 2.  What else.  Halo 2 was the same as Halo 1? lulz.  It wasn't a complete revolution, but there's quite a few differences.  Obviously they don't throw the formula out, neither did mario, but it introduces and changes the game up and it's definately a sequel

whatever, just PLEASE i dont want to have a system wars forum on here!!

Just because they are doing something different doesn't mean it's a good thing for gaming. The only good I can see coming out of the Wii is that it opens up gaming to a new audience that has never previously been targeted. Hopefully this will help gaming become more socially accepted and more widespread. Still it doesn't help that if you are regular gamer you are essentially paying 250 for a paperweight until Nintendo releases the next Zelda or something.

I have to admit when I first got my Wii I thought it was the best thing ever. I played the shit out of it for about 3 months and then played a 360 at a friend's house and never went back. I stuck with Nintendo all the way but it saddens me that most games for the 360 and PS3 can't be played on the Wii.

The idea that not attempting to be realistic is somehow innovative being placed in the midst of all the other reasons why the Wii is a step back to old times is hilarious. Besides the waggle, it's a console from 2000.

"The idea that not attempting to be realistic is somehow innovative being placed in the midst of all the other reasons why the Wii is a step back to old times is hilarious. Besides the waggle, it's a console from 2000."

"Jayge said:

"The idea that not attempting to be realistic is somehow innovative being placed in the midst of all the other reasons why the Wii is a step back to old times is hilarious. Besides the waggle, it's a console from 2000."

That is such a nonsensical and stereotypical thing to say.  The Wii is almost twice the power of the Xbox.  How is that 2000?  

The Wii is at least trying to break new ground.  It is progressing where the PS3 and 360, as good as they are at what they do, are simply last gen, but better looking.  Not really earth shattering is it?  Not really progressing the market is it?  Nothing new is not necessarily a bad thing as there are good games to play, but pales into what Nintendo are doing, like it or not.

"

Dude, the controls ARE the innovation.

"oldschool said:

"Jayge said:

"The idea that not attempting to be realistic is somehow innovative being placed in the midst of all the other reasons why the Wii is a step back to old times is hilarious. Besides the waggle, it's a console from 2000."

That is such a nonsensical and stereotypical thing to say.  The Wii is almost twice the power of the Xbox.  How is that 2000?  

The Wii is at least trying to break new ground.  It is progressing where the PS3 and 360, as good as they are at what they do, are simply last gen, but better looking.  Not really earth shattering is it?  Not really progressing the market is it?  Nothing new is not necessarily a bad thing as there are good games to play, but pales into what Nintendo are doing, like it or not.

"

Take any game you want from the Wii and remove the motion controls. Not so innovative now, is it? Look at stuff like The Conduit. That is garbage but because I have to move my hands while i'm playing, it's the most groundbreaking thing on the market? Give me a game that's actually fun over something which tries too hard to break the mold."

"Jayge said:

"The idea that not attempting to be realistic is somehow innovative being placed in the midst of all the other reasons why the Wii is a step back to old times is hilarious. Besides the waggle, it's a console from 2000."

That is such a nonsensical and stereotypical thing to say.  The Wii is almost twice the power of the Xbox.  How is that 2000?  

The Wii is at least trying to break new ground.  It is progressing where the PS3 and 360, as good as they are at what they do, are simply last gen, but better looking.  Not really earth shattering is it?  Not really progressing the market is it?  Nothing new is not necessarily a bad thing as there are good games to play, but pales into what Nintendo are doing, like it or not.

"

Define gimmick?  A trick or device intended to attract attention, business or publicity.

"Define gimmick?  A trick or device intended to attract attention, business or publicity.

That pretty much sums up everything ever made for entertainment doesn't it?  What changes a device from gimmick to innovation, is when it works.  Ultimately, it works, so logically, innovation.  You can play with words if you like, but it hardly makes you right.

"

No, it works better than any other control when done right.  Super Mario Galaxy?  As a gun, when done right, it is the only time I can play a shooting game, like Resident Evil 4 and Metroid.

"No, it works better than any other control when done right.  Super Mario Galaxy?  As a gun, when done right, it is the only time I can play a shooting game, like Resident Evil 4 and Metroid.

I am fine with the PS3 and 360 and most Wii owners are as well.  It is just a core group of 360 and PS3 owners that are so anti Nintendo.  I believe most of that is born of jealousy of the success of the Wii and is growing at the same rate of that success.

Wii sales - 43.8 million.

360 sales - 26.5 million.

PS3 sales - 18.8 million.

"

"No, it works better than any other control when done right.  Super Mario Galaxy?  As a gun, when done right, it is the only time I can play a shooting game, like Resident Evil 4 and Metroid.

I am fine with the PS3 and 360 and most Wii owners are as well.  It is just a core group of 360 and PS3 owners that are so anti Nintendo.  I believe most of that is born of jealousy of the success of the Wii and is growing at the same rate of that success.

Wii sales - 43.8 million.

360 sales - 26.5 million.

PS3 sales - 18.8 million.

"

Jayge, I am talking about people who don't own the Wii.   Yes, there are those who bought the Wii and are disappointed with it.  Fair enough, it didn't match their expectations and they are entitled to that view.  Doesn't make the Wii bad or disappointing though.

I won't call you a moron, but I disagree with what you're saying. Yes, there are some good games on the Wii; however, overall, I find the system to be very sub-par.

"

I won't call you a moron, but I disagree with what you're saying. Yes, there are some good games on the Wii; however, overall, I find the system to be very sub-par.

"

"oldschool said:

"Jayge said:

"The idea that not attempting to be realistic is somehow innovative being placed in the midst of all the other reasons why the Wii is a step back to old times is hilarious. Besides the waggle, it's a console from 2000."

That is such a nonsensical and stereotypical thing to say.  The Wii is almost twice the power of the Xbox.  How is that 2000?  

The Wii is at least trying to break new ground.  It is progressing where the PS3 and 360, as good as they are at what they do, are simply last gen, but better looking.  Not really earth shattering is it?  Not really progressing the market is it?  Nothing new is not necessarily a bad thing as there are good games to play, but pales into what Nintendo are doing, like it or not.

"

Seemingly nonsensical if you have no idea what you're talking about. As HandsomeDead (Oh god, I'm agreeing with him?) said, take any Wii game's waggle away and you have a game from at least one generation if not two generations past. Where is the Wii progressing at all where the 360 or PS3 aren't? With point-and-waggle controls? That's not innovation, that's a gimmick."

"oldschool said:

"Define gimmick?  A trick or device intended to attract attention, business or publicity.

That pretty much sums up everything ever made for entertainment doesn't it?  What changes a device from gimmick to innovation, is when it works.  Ultimately, it works, so logically, innovation.  You can play with words if you like, but it hardly makes you right.

"

Ultimately, it works absolutely no better than any control scheme that has come before it, and a majority of the time, far worse."

"whatever, just PLEASE i dont want to have a system wars forum on here!!"

Just accept that the Wii is a killer system.

Once you buy me Petz Monkeyz for the Wii, we'll talk.

For the record, there is something that every gamer I've ever met on the internet or in real life has just completely missed about the Wii if they've been around since at least the PS1 and N64. I can understand your difficulties understanding it, but it goes like this:

Ark, most of the times, the Wii is better off without the mutliplats.  If I want a dumbed down and cut back version of a game, then I would buy them.  Sometimes they get it right, like PES was the best on the Wii for example, but at other times if fails badly (Quantum of Solace).  That goes back to my point about building a completely different game utilising the same franchise, that ties in with the other game.  

I'm not saying there should be more multiplats. I'm saying that the system's library is weaker because its multiplats either suck or are nonexistant. One of the strongest games on the 360 and PS3 is GTA4, which isn't on Wii. Same goes for Fallout 3, Burnout Paradise, etc. Since those systems get games made for both of them, more of them are made. That's why there aren't a lot of games out for the Wii . . . yet.

"Go play RE4 on the GC/PS2, then on the Wii. No better than any control scheme that has come before it? Yeah right."

"For the record, there is something that every gamer I've ever met on the internet or in real life has just completely missed about the Wii if they've been around since at least the PS1 and N64. I can understand your difficulties understanding it, but it goes like this:

The Wii has landed itself in a different field because rather than change what you play, it changes how you play it, sometimes with terrific results. I'm sorry that I can't respond to each of you, but I'd rather not have an argument with 8 people at once. It's just taxing, especially since I've already had around 43 with HandsomeDead by now covering every subject. If you think about it in the context of changing how you play, you'll see the innovation. Also, the Wii has had a really strong library of exclusives. It just hasn't had the multiplats, which is it. That is what hurts it, and basically nothing more.

Also, please, please, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE . . . keep this kind of shit civil. I hate system wars when people act retarded, which some of you are.

"

"Jayge said:

"oldschool said:

"Define gimmick?  A trick or device intended to attract attention, business or publicity.

That pretty much sums up everything ever made for entertainment doesn't it?  What changes a device from gimmick to innovation, is when it works.  Ultimately, it works, so logically, innovation.  You can play with words if you like, but it hardly makes you right.

"

Ultimately, it works absolutely no better than any control scheme that has come before it, and a majority of the time, far worse."

Go play RE4 on the GC/PS2, then on the Wii. No better than any control scheme that has come before it? Yeah right."

Aside from a few clever titles, the Wii is lacking in compelling titles.

For the most part, what Wii titles are doing for gameplay, are no better than i was doing 15 years ago on a Mega Drive. But then, that was fine when i was 9 and at least cutting edge for the time.

"If one were trying to find a point where video games are turning into a form of artistic expression, however, it might be towards the more powerful consoles that one would look. The Wii is great entertainment but in spirit it is closer to a toy than a game; I don’t mean that as a criticism, it’s a virtue. In the form of games such as those of Miyamoto, it is close to a spirit of pure play. This is often elusive in the darker types of video game. A common criticism of video games made by non-gamers is that they are pointless and escapist, but a more valid observation might be that the bulk of games are nowhere near escapist enough. A persuasive recent essay by the games theorist Steven Poole made the strong argument that the majority of games offer a model of play which is oppressively close to work.[1] The Grand Theft Auto games, for example, are notorious (especially among people who’ve never played them) for their apparent celebration of random violence. The most recent iteration of the game, however, Grand Theft Auto IV, involves the main character having to spend a large amount of time building up his relationships, so that he can have people to help him do his criminal thing; and building up these relationships involves driving to see these people, taking them out to nightclubs, and sitting there with them. It’s not significantly less boring in the game than it would be in real life."

"    When you think of the standout games on the Xbox 360 or PS3, what do you think of? Well, on the 360, I think of games like Halo, Gears of War, Too Human, BWAHAHAHAHAHA . . . sorry, couldn't resist . . . Mass Effect, etc. On the PS3, I'd think of Uncharted, MGS4, Resistance, LittleBigPlanet. Notice something about those? Of all those games, only one isn't trying in some way to create a realistic vision of a world. By that, I mean all but LittleBigPlanet are keeping themselves more grounded in reality than fantasy. I mean, sorry to go back to a joke, but Too Human toom the world of Norse Mythology and made it into some kind of corporation! Of course, not all the games for the systems go for that, but most do, and almost all the notable ones do. The Wii? I think of Galaxy, Brawl, Metroid Prime 3, No More Heroes, de Blob, Zack and Wiki. Now, of those you have three that involve humans, and one that recreates them in a realistic manner, being Metroid Prime 3. Galaxy and Brawl are both much more focused on a cartoon-like element, but we should exclude those because they were already established. Of the three most notable titles that have made their full debut on Wii, one has humans, one has blobs, and one has animals that talk like humans. Even No More Heroes, which has humans, is so outrageously over the top that it can barely be called "grounded in reality."

    What am I getting at? It's simple; the Wii is not a competitor for the Xbox or the PS3. It is in a whole new league. Games on the HD consoles are considered fresh if they have crisper graphics. Look at Halo 3. It changed very little, but people played the shit out of it. Why? It looked nicer. I can't think of another reason. The Wii, or more specifically, the Wii in 2008, has proven itself to be about something different. Gone is the familiar. What we are stuck with is the visually radical, the aesthetically fresh. I don't even need to explain how important this game is to my argument. Also, have you noticed how the 360 and PS3 are referred to as the "HD consoles" much more than they are the "Traditional pad consoles"? It may be quicker, but there's something else to it.

    Visually, the Wii has refused the confines presented by the modern tech spec races, and has created some of the most aesthetically unique games of the generation.

    That's all I can say for now. I'll talk more of my mind later.

"

"The idea that not attempting to be realistic is somehow innovative being placed in the midst of all the other reasons why the Wii is a step back to old times is hilarious. Besides the waggle, it's a console from 2000."

The Wii has the best golf games ever. I can't go back to analog controls for golf. If the Xbox 360 or the PS3 get a motion controller and I can play golf on those systems, win... win... for me.

"The Wii has the best golf games ever. I can't go back to analog controls for golf. If the Xbox 360 or the PS3 get a motion controller and I can play golf on those systems, win... win... for me."

I can't speak for everybody, obviously.

However, I for one am both impressed and satisfied with the Wii.

The Wii was never meant to do what it's so-called competing consoles could do, was never advertised to.

Alot of people bring up the point of it's lack of power and shovelware. For this I have 2 valid arguments.

1. Power does not equal a good game.
2. I don't buy shovelware games so it doesn't effect me.

It's arrogant for gamers need to think that the gaming industry OWES them something.

I cant see your point.

"HandsomeDead said:

"oldschool said:

"Jayge said:

"The idea that not attempting to be realistic is somehow innovative being placed in the midst of all the other reasons why the Wii is a step back to old times is hilarious. Besides the waggle, it's a console from 2000."

That is such a nonsensical and stereotypical thing to say.  The Wii is almost twice the power of the Xbox.  How is that 2000?  

The Wii is at least trying to break new ground.  It is progressing where the PS3 and 360, as good as they are at what they do, are simply last gen, but better looking.  Not really earth shattering is it?  Not really progressing the market is it?  Nothing new is not necessarily a bad thing as there are good games to play, but pales into what Nintendo are doing, like it or not.

"

Take any game you want from the Wii and remove the motion controls. Not so innovative now, is it? Look at stuff like The Conduit. That is garbage but because I have to move my hands while i'm playing, it's the most groundbreaking thing on the market? Give me a game that's actually fun over something which tries too hard to break the mold."

Remove the motion controls on the Wii and beef up the graphics and we get another 360/PS3 clone, it would fail like the Gamecube.  Nintendo had to mix things up and try something unique, hence the motion controls and the casual games we love to hate.  Like it or not, motion controls are a big deal and I have a feeling Sony and Microsoft are going to rely heavily on motion controls next generation.

And, what innovations have the 360 and PS3 made this generation?  Better graphics never count as real innovation... that's just a normal progression.  The controls of these consoles are last gen, and perhaps even older.  The industry can't survive by doing the same old thing, but shinier.  Online play might count, but then again, the PC did it before anybody."

I don't think of the system as subpar in any way. I just think that too many developers use it to dump their shovelware and party games on. While I don't mind a couple of quirky simple games, I just hate how so many developers don't even bother making good games for it simply because they know their crap will sell anyway.

Graphics = console power, right? Try and make a world as large and complex as Falout 3 on the Wii, try to make something as epic as MGS4 on the Wii, try to make something as intense as CoD 4 on the Wii. You can't do it with the power of the console. The real innovation comes in the games themselves rather than how you play them. Waggling a nunchuck left and right rather than tapping X isn't innovation. Innovation is a game like Dead Rising where you are actually having to survive against the zombies rather than being a typical hero or BioShock where you're investigating the world around you rather than simply fighting through it. The Wii has nothing as deep or interesting as either of those. Of course, it's trying, they have a Dead Rising port which not only looks like utter garbage (Graphics) but also loses a lot of the zombies so the claustrophobia is gone too (Console power) and you had the logs in Metroid Prime 3, but that game was so slow and sluggish, it was beyond boring."

It isn't underrated, its perceived by most people exactly as it should be. It's just not that good of a machine at all. Something nearly everyone has, and was happy about it the day they went out and got it, but hasn't really touched it since, or eventually sold it(as I did.)

"HandsomeDead said:

Graphics = console power, right? Try and make a world as large and complex as Falout 3 on the Wii, try to make something as epic as MGS4 on the Wii, try to make something as intense as CoD 4 on the Wii. You can't do it with the power of the console. The real innovation comes in the games themselves rather than how you play them. Waggling a nunchuck left and right rather than tapping X isn't innovation. Innovation is a game like Dead Rising where you are actually having to survive against the zombies rather than being a typical hero or BioShock where you're investigating the world around you rather than simply fighting through it. The Wii has nothing as deep or interesting as either of those. Of course, it's trying, they have a Dead Rising port which not only looks like utter garbage (Graphics) but also loses a lot of the zombies so the claustrophobia is gone too (Console power) and you had the logs in Metroid Prime 3, but that game was so slow and sluggish, it was beyond boring."

There's more than one kind of innovation. Innovation of scale is one thing, innovation of interaction. You can't tell me that something like Shaun White Snowboarding on Wii isn't innovative, with the balance board controls."

The only thing that keeps me from selling my Wii is the anticipation of the next Zelda and Mario. Other than that, there is no great reason to keep it. Honestly, the Wii is a boring console. It is inferior to the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Oldschool, I was addressing Arkthemaniac. In his opening post he asks everyone not to call him a moron.

"Super Mario Galaxy?  As a gun, when done right, it is the only time I can play a shooting game"

"Oldschool, I was addressing Arkthemaniac. In his opening post he asks everyone not to call him a moron."

Most underrated console ever? I think that goes to the dreamcast.

"Icemael said:

"Go play RE4 on the GC/PS2, then on the Wii. No better than any control scheme that has come before it? Yeah right."

Still can't beat the ol' keyboard and mouse.

You won't see as many big games on the Wii due to the fact that the casual audience doesn't buy nearly as much software as the other consoles. Nintendo is getting the big bucks while other developers aren't getting nearly the same payload when they make a game.