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#1 Posted by NintendoNaut (8 posts) -

http://www.gamespot.com/features/medal-of-honor-warfighters-dirty-secret-fuels-the-flames-of-hatred-6399086/?tag=Topslot%3bMedalOfHonorWarfighter%3bMedalOfHonor039sDir%3bReadMore

For those of you who don't already know, back at E3 Tom McShea engaged in an unprofessional, entirely disrespectful argument with executive producer Greg Goodrich over the "authenticity" of the title. Mr. Goodrich was respectful, civil, and tried to explain they indeed respect soldiers and their sacrifice, but in the end were game devs and were trying to build a game that is the best of both worlds--One that is fun to play, but still retains respect for American soliders. McShea unintelligently and arrogantly argued back that they should build a "realistic" and "authentic" game where if you die the game is over forever because that's what really happens. You can watch the video on Warfighter's GameSpot page, but long-story short, Mr. Goodrich took McShea to school and basically made him look like the idiot he is in front of everyone for 30 minutes. Now, in this article, McShea exacts his revenge, his, "last laugh." Why GameSpot hasn't fired this guy is beyond me.

Anyway, point is, this actually made the front page. This is front page news according to GameSpot apparently. Anyway, forgive my ranting. Just needed to get that out of me. :P

#2 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

Seems to be a bit of bias in this post.

#3 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4677 posts) -

There is already a thread on this.

#4 Posted by FourWude (2261 posts) -

Oh noes someone criticized propaganda and militarism in videogames. Fire him.

#5 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5828 posts) -

your post is the reason I'm leaving this thread

#6 Posted by joetom (100 posts) -

I think he's trying to make a good point, I've always thought it's kind of mess up how the middle east is portrayed in most American media. However, I think he's expecting a little too much from an EA shooter, if he expects to have the enemy humanized in any significant way.

#7 Posted by CaLe (3985 posts) -

Maybe some people liked the article? You didn't, and that's fine, but there's no need to be calling for someone to lose their job over expressing their view on something.

#8 Edited by TooWalrus (13202 posts) -

Oh good, our community needed more bronies... Welcome to GB.  
 
But yeah, for the most part I agree. I haven't actually played it, but claiming the game & it's developers are xenophobic seems pretty harsh. I don't think he should be fired or anything, and I don't think it's worth abandoning one of my favorite websites over (I wouldn't leave GB if Patrick wrote an article like this), but I do think it's pretty dumb.

#9 Posted by TheHumanDove (2523 posts) -

McShea is a clown. He has no tact and says bullshit like how Cliffy B would lie to your face to get you to buy one of his games. Completely uncalled for and unfounded. He belongs on Kotaku

#10 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4351 posts) -

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

There is already a thread on this.

This. As for McShea I support the gist of his argument but I don't support him making Warfighter a scapegoat when this has been going on for a while now with other modern military shooters.

#11 Posted by tallTuck94 (553 posts) -

@NintendoNaut: So you refuse to go on a website because you don't like one article one guy at the website wrote. That's just stupid.

#12 Posted by Jazzycola (662 posts) -

I don't really see why you have to ignore gamespot completely because of Tom Mcshea. Look it's obvious you already knew how Tom Mcshea acted yet you still clicked on the article. Tom Mcshea's argument is that warfighter tries to be "authentic" but I don't think the developers ever sought out to delve into any of the effects of war. This is a game that is built for a mass audience. It's the 80s Stallone/Schwarzenegger action movies of video games. To get mad at it for something it never intended to do is kind of dumb. And to get mad at a person who you've already know that you'll disagree with on a particular issue is irrational. In the end, your click helped him keep his job.

#13 Edited by NintendoNaut (8 posts) -

@TooWalrus: You're a brony as well? /) -- Thanks for the welcome. Nah, I think a lot of people are misunderstanding my whole post. I suppose I should have clarified that I've been annoyed at GameSpot's attitude in general for months now, and have been considering leaving for quite some time. This was just simply the "the last straw."

@tallTuck94: Same thing I just told TooWalrus.

#14 Posted by Kaiserreich (699 posts) -

You're post is a good reason to leave Giantbomb.

#15 Posted by awesomeusername (4185 posts) -

On behalf of Giantbomb, please go back to GameSpot.

See ya

#16 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@joetom said:

However, I think he's expecting a little too much from an EA shooter, if he expects to have the enemy humanized in any significant way.

Do not expectations shape our reality? Do not the two communicate amongst each other?

#17 Posted by wewantsthering (1567 posts) -

@FancySoapsMan said:

your post is the reason I'm leaving this thread

#18 Posted by NintendoNaut (8 posts) -

Wow. First post and I'm already being flamed. I can tell this is a great community already.

#19 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11740 posts) -

@NintendoNaut: You made the mistake of talking about something that was discussed ad-naseum in another thread. Don't worry.The Giant Bomb community is marginally better than this. Sometimes.

#20 Posted by JasonR86 (9710 posts) -

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

There is already a thread on this.

Also Tom is looking for page views. And he writes like a person who would write a political speech.

#21 Posted by NintendoNaut (8 posts) -

@ArbitraryWater: Ahaha, yeah I guess I understand. It was my fault in the first place for not being clear. I didn't leave *just* because of this article--I've been considering it for months. So I guess to people who are reading, "I READ THIS ONE ARTICLE AND JUST FRIGGIN *LEFT*" that probably sounds like someone best ignored. But thanks for non-flaming words. ^_^

#22 Posted by Turtlebird95 (2389 posts) -
@NintendoNaut said:

Wow. First post and I'm already being flamed. I can tell this is a great community already.

The GB community isn't so bad. Much better than the crybabies over at GS. 
 
On another note, welcome to the site.
#23 Posted by NintendoNaut (8 posts) -

@Turtlebird95: Thanks much--I'll be sure to check the boards profusely before posting another topic to make sure there's nothing already on it...Sheesh. :P

#24 Posted by Zekhariah (697 posts) -

I do recall that Tom McShea interview, and he did not come off all that well (if you listen to the podcast he is on it happens a lot).

On the other hand, his primary dispute was in terms of saying that video games - and especially modern military shooters like Medal of Honor - are complete BS. For all of the talk about duty, honor, etc, its still a a video game where you run around gunning down generic enemies. And so all of the hoopla about it being authentic was ridiculous as it was just not something any video game actually aims at. He did not express his argument with the EA guy very well, and it seems like there was no debate to be had because Tom was essentially calling the authenticity marketing angle and aspiration (to word it as awkwardly as Tom) a filthy dirty lie. Which is not a basis for discussion as much as it is saying you have zero trust.

And it looks like McShea was correct. But until the game was out the interview was him down playing a game that was unreleased, even if it was an obvious franchise job.

#25 Posted by PillClinton (3291 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

There is already a thread on this.

Also Tom is looking for page views. And he writes like a person who would write a political speech.

You say that with such certainty, like you're an authority on the subject. By that logic, every opinion piece is just for page views. Your cynicism is showing.

#26 Posted by JasonR86 (9710 posts) -

@PillClinton said:

@JasonR86 said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

There is already a thread on this.

Also Tom is looking for page views. And he writes like a person who would write a political speech.

You say that with such certainty, like you're an authority on the subject. By that logic, every opinion piece is just for page views. Your cynicism is showing.

And that cynicism is red, white, and blue mother-fucker!

#27 Posted by PillClinton (3291 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

@PillClinton said:

@JasonR86 said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

There is already a thread on this.

Also Tom is looking for page views. And he writes like a person who would write a political speech.

You say that with such certainty, like you're an authority on the subject. By that logic, every opinion piece is just for page views. Your cynicism is showing.

And that cynicism is red, white, and blue mother-fucker!

I observe your apparent patriotism, then.

#28 Posted by notdavid (839 posts) -

Welcome to the site. You're wrong. But whatever.

#29 Posted by Landon (4143 posts) -

Well, with your My Little Pony picture and red name you're gonna fit in here just fine.

#30 Posted by granderojo (1788 posts) -

I actually enjoy listening/conversing with on twitter about this sort of thing. He seems to have similar views, not exactly the same but it basically revolves around the same concept that he's tired of killing the sorts of enemies that most modern military first person shooters have you killing. He calls them brown people, Tom does not but I'm sure if you sat them in a room together they'd nod at this idea.

Initially I read this article and think EA/Danger Close are full of shit when they try to say this is an authentic representation of actual fighting. Aside from the actual combat, to the settings & what they have you doing in the settings it's clearly inauthentic. That said, I don't think Tom has proper grasp on what would be authentic either. Whenever I hear someone like Tom or bring it up I remind these people that the majority of conflicts in the world today are not US killing Arabic people or US killing more generally other third world inhabitants(ie brown people in case of ) but it's actually poor people killing other poor people.

The majority of conflicts undertaken by militaries, in for of killing. A lot of the killing is either infighting within a countries(ie civil war) but mostly it's actually border disputes. Mainly, one nation going to war, shelling and invading another over a contested piece of land.

If a game developer wanted to making an authentic military shooter, it'd either be a long drawn out guerrilla campaign where it's impossible really to tell who's winning at any given time. It would be that or a quick one off kill fest for a few days with one side clearly being outmatched for the other. If you want to make an authentic military war game today that's what it should look like. If you want Russia vs the United States, well hold on, I'm sure someone has a United Nations Security Council simulator in the works because that's the only real time we ever 'authentically' are in conflict with them anymore.

#31 Posted by Stonyman65 (2709 posts) -
#32 Posted by verbalmedal (55 posts) -

I never gave a damn about Gamespot anyway.

#33 Posted by tourgen (4500 posts) -

I don't know, MoH looks like a perfectly authentic Duck Hunt clone.

#34 Posted by MURDERSMASH (251 posts) -

@NintendoNaut: You're getting "flamed" because of garbage like this:

@NintendoNaut said:

Mr. Goodrich took McShea to school and basically made him look like the idiot he is in front of everyone for 30 minutes.

DAE THINK TOM MCSHEA IS A IDIOT?!

Shit like this isn't wanted or conducive to a proper discussion. Work on your attitude or GTFO.

#35 Posted by Akrid (1356 posts) -

@NintendoNaut: His points aren't entirely without merit in my opinion, though maybe some of them are de-meriting at the same time. I don't know very much about the dude, but from that one article and what you're telling me, I think you might want to cut him some slack for trying at the very least. He's not laying over and dying like so many games journalists do - at least he has an opinion outside of the usual "Graphics are pretty, controls B guud". He doesn't actually seem to be a plain idiot either.

Welcome to the site. There are some good people on here.

#36 Posted by keli911 (14 posts) -

When he first intervied the guy and said stupid shit like "when you die the game should be over" i mini-raged but this post by the same guy is a lot more relevant. Just read what he says and you dont have to agree with everything but he has a point, who decided that middle eastern people in general are nothing more than our enemies. Sounds pretty racist to me.

#37 Posted by keli911 (14 posts) -

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

There is already a thread on this.

This. As for McShea I support the gist of his argument but I don't support him making Warfighter a scapegoat when this has been going on for a while now with other modern military shooters.

This

#38 Edited by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -

ITT: I don't share the same opinions as Tom, therefore shit journalist, shouldn't have a job, Gamespot sucks etc.

said:

I do recall that Tom McShea interview, and he did not come off all that well (if you listen to the podcast he is on it happens a lot).

On the other hand, his primary dispute was in terms of saying that video games - and especially modern military shooters like Medal of Honor - are complete BS. For all of the talk about duty, honor, etc, its still a a video game where you run around gunning down generic enemies. And so all of the hoopla about it being authentic was ridiculous as it was just not something any video game actually aims at. He did not express his argument with the EA guy very well, and it seems like there was no debate to be had because Tom was essentially calling the authenticity marketing angle and aspiration (to word it as awkwardly as Tom) a filthy dirty lie. Which is not a basis for discussion as much as it is saying you have zero trust.

And it looks like McShea was correct. But until the game was out the interview was him down playing a game that was unreleased, even if it was an obvious franchise job.

Seems like you are one of the few people here who actually understood what Tom was on about in the first place. Well said.

#39 Posted by Toxeia (729 posts) -

@NintendoNaut said:

Wow. First post and I'm already being flamed. I can tell this is a great community already.

I want to hold you in my arms, rock in my chair, and just let you know everything's going to be alright. Call me sometime.

#40 Posted by SSully (4187 posts) -

The post speaks well about a lot of modern games, but it was really tasteless in how he chose to make Medal of Honor the focal point of his disgust. There are plenty of games that do it more and worse.

#41 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3835 posts) -

@keli911 said:

@Colourful_Hippie said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

There is already a thread on this.

This. As for McShea I support the gist of his argument but I don't support him making Warfighter a scapegoat when this has been going on for a while now with other modern military shooters.

This

Yeah this is entirely the problem. Medal of Honor did not come about in a vacuum. There is a complete ignorance to the fact that it is a derivative title.

#42 Posted by BestUsernameEver (4825 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

Seems to be a bit of bias in this post.

#43 Posted by Bucketdeth (8012 posts) -

Man, Giantbomb really has devolved into a bunch of fucking dicks. It used to be a good place for discussion in a civilized manner, I guess that is out the window. The guy is obviously a new poster, he probably shouldn't have called McShea an "idiot" but he sure as hell didn't sentence him to death.

By the way, welcome to the site, and as you can tell, we are a loving bunch.

#44 Posted by MocBucket62 (1229 posts) -

Hey I just wanted to say welcome to the site! Sorry for the already negative responses to your thread, but yep the GB community here will have its moments of harsh reception towards on the boards. I know I've made recent threads where most people have flamed me for expressing my opinions, especially when they sometimes act as rants. Just be careful with word choice next time because I think you shouldn't of called McShea an idiot, but I see where you're coming from about in terms of how that interview went.

#45 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -

I feel like we need a thread here designated for McShea hate, wonder how people on the Gamespot forums feel about him.

#46 Posted by Fat_Magnum (68 posts) -

@FancySoapsMan said:

your post is the reason I'm leaving this thread

I...

Yeah.

#47 Posted by Vitor (2821 posts) -

@TooWalrus said:

Oh good, our community needed more bronies... Welcome to GB.

But yeah, for the most part I agree. I haven't actually played it, but claiming the game & it's developers are xenophobic seems pretty harsh. I don't think he should be fired or anything, and I don't think it's worth abandoning one of my favorite websites over (I wouldn't leave GB if Patrick wrote an article like this), but I do think it's pretty dumb.

I saw that video interview when it first came out and man, McShea was being a belligerent asshole while the guy he was talking to was nothing but civil, respectful and articulate.

Danger Close are already going to lose a lot of money on this game, they had a critical mauling and I really don't think that they need him to rub things in their face any more than that.

#48 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

@tourgen said:

I don't know, MoH looks like a perfectly authentic Duck Hunt clone.

This seems like the best way to enjoy the game.

#49 Posted by kgb0515 (411 posts) -

Taken from the context that the author had a little spat with one of the devs at a gaming convention, I could see how this seems like a last laugh. Still, I think he actually argues his points quite well here. The fact that military FPS games are culturally insensitive could be said about any modern shooter. The fact that MoH Warfighter takes the brunt of all his anguish is a bit annoying, but he's not wrong either. I can't really think of any way to approach these games in a way that would revolutionize the genre or better address the issues of cultural awareness, but we could always just go back to red guys shooting blue guys. Damn those blues and their blue supremist attitudes and anti red hegemonic rhetoric! Long live red!

#50 Posted by CircleNine (381 posts) -

v important to otherize brown people so we can casually say and assume bad things about them and have those beliefs normalized and reinforced by the media we consume, v important indeed, but never mind that hooah support our troops