TNT - thoughts on format (feature two games at the same time?)

The last couple of times on TNT the crew has played two games simultaneously and switched between them during the broadcast (Tokyo Jungle/Borderlands 2 and Trine 2/DOA5). Am I the only one who thinks it would work better for the whole crew to focus on one game for, like, 45 minutes and then switch over to the other? Or perhaps just focus on one game entirely. The segments with Jeff in the aforementioned TNT's were relatively tame (not Jeff´s fault but because of the format) because of how little time was used on them, how isolated they felt and because the other group would, naturally, attract more attention.

I guess I feel it becomes at bit too disjointed and schizophrenic. For example, I remember how much fun the Dead Island TNT was because they all joined in and played co-op, compared to how relatively boring the Borderlands 2 segment was. I think Borderlands 2 could have made for a fantastic 4-player co-op TNT for about an hour, and then they could all switch over to the wonderful absurdity of Tokyo Jungle. Although, to be fair, I do think it worked pretty well, for example, when Brad was playing Minecraft... Maybe because the particularly slow pacing of that game made for a fun contrast. I guess my main point is that TNT's are, generally, the most fun when the crew is together and focused on one game at a time because it makes for better banter and arguing :-)

I agree with you. I think it's too confusing when you can watch two games being played at the same time as big and small screens, and I have no idea which one I should be focusing on. And switching between them constantly isn't helping either.

It just seems like they're safeguarding themselves from picking a game nobody wants to see played. I prefer that they focus on what to play. They could stage polls a few days prior to each TNT perhaps.

I do like the idea of the format, you can have 2 opportunities to play with the Giantbomb crew across 2 different games, but watching it would be confusing.

TWO STREAMS!!!

I didn't see those two, but I remember the one that had Jeff play Star Trek: Online while the rest of the gang played Cards Against Humanity, and that was awesome because both could be playing simultaneously without one overshadowing the other.

That particular case worked really well. There was also that one when Brad was playing Minecraft and the other guys were playing (I think it was) Starhawk. Since Starhawk is an online multiplayer-focused game, Brad's constructions in Minecraft were a welcome change from the other stream. Not that I wouldn't have enjoyed a TNT with only Starhawk, but when you're playing that sort of online game that doesn't have any real progression from match to match other than EXP points, a change of scenery is welcomed.

Yeah, I thought it was kinda confusing and also watching DoA 5 MP was not that fun at least for me cause I just wanted to see Trine 2. I think they should focus on one game or switch at some point like you said. Also maybe they shouldn't play puzzle games for TNT (I remember the Portal 2 DLC one being kinda hard to watch).

The way i see this is... it only happens when they have two games which could be quite dull to watch for 2 hours continuously. As was the case last night.

I had no interest in watching 2 hours of girls punching each other in the tits... likewise... didn't really need to watch hours of guys floundering around trying to solve puzzles... The dual format allowed Vinny to switch back n forth to keep things entertaining.

I'd prefer it if they switched between the two for longer. There have been TNTs in the past where I have had no interest in the game being played so having another one that I might be more interested in would be welcome. For instance, this week I didn't care about Trine 2. I don't really care about DOA 5 either but I like watching people play fighting games so it sucked for me that Jeff got ignored and I didn't watch the whole thing. Also, I think I prefer it when they don't play co-op games. I thought last week's worked well. That might be because I liked both games being played though.

In short, I'm not sure how to get around the cluttered screen issue but I'm pro-multiple games.

This isn't really a new format that they did.. i remember them playing Civ 5 and Ticket to Ride at the same time

The dual format has some great potential for hilarity, but I DO remember being real bored during the Borderlands 2/ Tokyo Jungle one. I had come for Borderlands 2 but got so bored by it, thank goodness Tokyo Jungle was there to liven things up! Same with last night; I had come for Trine 2 but it was Jeff's occasional antics in DOA5 that kept me goin!

I like the two game format as long as each game is given it's time in the spotlight. Last night DOA5 was barely featured.

@RelentlessKnight: No, I guess it's not a new thing, but they have been using this format for the last couple of weeks, so it got me thinking about it.

Just to be clear, I'm also pro-multiple games in one TNT for the most part but I think, generally, it works better to focus on one game exclusively at a time (with the entire crew in the same space) because the conversation/banter/arguing (whatever you wanna call it) becomes better and the game receives a more in-depth look. Also, everyone gets to comment on that particular game, wheras, for example, this week Jeff didn't comment much on Trine 2 and vice versa. I can understand why some like the simultaneous-games format, though.

I definitely prefer them to focus on one game at a time per stream. If they could go the BLLSL route and have concurrent game streams I'd prefer it to the way they do it currently, but mostly I would prefer just focussing on one game at a time. I watch TNT for a chilled out laugh and to see a bit of esports style competition between the crew, but that gets a bit too muddled and frenetic when your attention is divided across 2 games, unevenly covered, not to mention trying to keep an eye on chat at the same time. It introduces the further problem that the team struggle to interact with whoever is playing solo, like when Ryan asked Jeff a question last night but then talked over the answer because he couldn't hear Jeff anyway and was too focused on Trine. Plus when the multiplayer game goes small-screen, the guys playing don't realise that they're no longer the main focus, so they continue raucously arguing about action that it's very hard to see. It's just a bit too chaotic.

I'd rather they focused on one gaming session, but turned their attention to honing the presentation of that session. For example, they could have a 4 player coop game where there is one main stream that shows all the action from one player's perspective at a time, switching periodically and maybe with picture-in-picture, all like how it is now - but ALSO with the 4 viewpoints streamed separately and optionally, so you could follow who you want to follow. Let's take this shit space age! That might spread out the load and avoid choppiness on any one given stream too.

I gotta agree with the majority here. Some of the best TNTs (Dead Island, Wall Street Fortune, Mario Party) are done when the whole crew is focused on one game, and even when only one or two of them are playing and the rest are watching (SNES TNTs), it still ends up pretty funny and lively.

I have no problem switching my focus to two streams, it's not that hard to do, so that's really not my problem. I just hate to see somebody in a corner playing by themselves (essentially, since the community isn't exactly there and BSing with them) while the rest of the group has the time of their life with whatever game they chose.

I suspect it is because TNT was meant to be about playing with the community over the internet but a lot of people find that boring and would prefer them to play local coop or versus. So they do both.

I really don't like this format. And Trine is just a confusing mess to watch. I'd have preferred a DOA5-specific TNT.

I liked it because if it was just a Trine TNT there would have been no Jeff. I propose 2 streams instead of windowing everything. Maybe a feature for the site re-design.

@Laivasse: Well put, you make several excellent points regarding use of the chat, interaction between the crew, who's in "focus" at a given time etc. that I agree with completely.

@CaLe said:

I liked it because if it was just a Trine TNT there would have been no Jeff. I propose 2 streams instead of windowing everything. Maybe a feature for the site re-design.

But my point is that I would prefer that Jeff was there with the rest of the crew playing Trine 2. Even though it's a 3-player game (I guess?) they could take turns and one of them could man the chat etc. etc. And then, after a while, they could all switch focus to DOA5 and take turns playing that game, both in versus mode and online against the community. That would make for a much better broadcast, in my opinion.

But I understand those people for whom TNT is all about playing against the crew online, that the format from these past few weeks is preferable. For me, though, it's all about tuning in and watching the crew shoot the shit and talk about any one game and that works best when they are all in the same couch/space focussing, more or less, on the same activity.

Two concurrent streams with two different games could maybe work, but for me, personally, that would still make it too fragmented.

I just finished watching the T2DOA5TNT and I really didn't enjoy it; it seemed like a big mess :(

The situation Jeff was in was pretty awkward - off in a corner playing another game by himself and mostly being ignored by the others. I think playing one game after another is a better idea (at least from a viewing standpoint) - even if that just entails one person playing and 3 others watching/talking.

Not a big fan of the 2-game TNTs, but it's sort of a symptom of a bigger problem the way I see it. TNT is sorta just failing as a concept, or at least it needs more development. Having a weekly live show is great, but too often it's just a mess poorly planned content. The starting idea was for it to be a show where users got to play with the guys, which has proven to usually just drag the whole show down and seems like a novelty that has worn off. Looking at what the best TNTs are they should really just change it to playing a local multiplayer game. They could ofc play some online games now and then, but the compulsion to do it even if it means a lot of downtime due to bad server/invite systems etc needs to go.

Maybe they could even change the show into being a more structured form of all those off-the-cuff casts they've had where they just bring in some classics they enjoy. Many of the better TNTs are the ones where the guys playing actually have some true excitement about playing the game.

This may be slightly tinted from being european (so TNT is forever a "watch afterwards" thing for me), but the "play with the crew" has never really been that much of a pull for me. (edit: meaning that I'd rather have them pick the format week-to-week depending on the game.)

That said, watching, the Borderlands 2/Tokyo Jungle thing was terrible, just felt extremely disjointed. I'd much rather have seen a feature of Tokyo Jungle and a 4-player co-op game with the crew.

Then again, considering how they managed to mess that up with Borderlands (1) and Diablo 3 both, having one out of the four playing a high-level character with three entirely newly created characters... yeah, I don't know. At least the 4-player co-op thing kind of worked with Dead Island? :s

I want less online and more local co-op. But that's just me.

as long as they tone down a bit on the dumb shit being superimposed over the game, because it's really annoying when you are actually trying to follow the gameplay (I don't mind if it's on the crews faces or loading screens, but I don't want to see stupid shit while the game is being played.

Honestly, I would have watched Jeff play / talk about DOA 5 the entire time over Trine 2 coop.

Do it when it makes sense. I wouldn't want to watch a whole DoA 5 TNT but it was nice to have it in the background.

Local multiplayer clearly makes for a better, funnier show, so they should probably just try to forget about the community nonsense. It's the difference between entertaining several thousand people, or the select few that manage to get into a game.

All of my favorite TNTs are single-game TNTs. Most of them involve multiple crew members playing, too.

List: WWE All Stars (first TNT I ever really enjoyed), Dead Island, Fortune Street, Mario Party, Burnout Paradise. The Battlefield 3 and Dead Space 2 TNTs were all right, too. Oh, and TNTested, whether it was TF2 or the StarCraft II rivalry show, was always pretty entertaining.

I don't like it myself. One game is ether boring to watch, so why even have it, or the one that is showing the interesting thing at that moment isn't getting the focus so you miss stuff.

Separate times for both games is a good idea. I'd still like TNT's that only have one game in them too. TNT can be quite versatile.

I'm not a fan at all. Watching Jeff sit there playing a game silently makes for some terrible entertainment.

I haven't read through the thread, so hopefully this hasn't been proposed, but what about this:

Non subscribers get the usual 1 stream, and Vinny decides when to flip between games. Subscribers, on the other hand, can pick what they want to watch. For example, let's go with last night's TNT. Subscribers can choose between the following:

-The non subscriber stream (or "main stream")

-Trine 2

-DOA5

Then sound for the individual games would have more sound from their respective games and the person playing them, but you can still hear what's going on in the other game just in case something crazy happens, so users can switch to that stream.

Of course, it would probably be easiest to have 2 streams (namely because setting up something like my idea would probably be a pain in the ass), but I dunno. Maybe someone at GB will think of something better based off my idea.

EDIT: Or just do one game per TNT.

@Mnemoidian said:

This may be slightly tinted from being european (so TNT is forever a "watch afterwards" thing for me), but the "play with the crew" has never really been that much of a pull for me. (edit: meaning that I'd rather have them pick the format week-to-week depending on the game.)

That said, watching, the Borderlands 2/Tokyo Jungle thing was terrible, just felt extremely disjointed. I'd much rather have seen a feature of Tokyo Jungle and a 4-player co-op game with the crew.

Then again, considering how they managed to mess that up with Borderlands (1) and Diablo 3 both, having one out of the four playing a high-level character with three entirely newly created characters... yeah, I don't know. At least the 4-player co-op thing kind of worked with Dead Island? :s

What, did they do a Borderlands (1) TNT at some point? I totally missed that.

@Shaka999: As a non-subscriber I'm not a fan of this approach ;-)

Seriously, though, I can understand why this would make sense for GB as subscriber incentive. However, I still think it would pose the problem of stratification. GB is best (and funniest) when the crew is together and playing off each other. So if they used this approach yesterday, while the broadcast(s) would indeed be more focused, it would still mean that one or more of the members (like Jeff, for example) would not be part of the "main" event.

I think it went better w/Tokyo jungle/Borderlands 2 than yesterday. Trine 2 was too busy to lay another screen over part of it. personally I appreciated both, I like the 2 streams or the 1/2-1/2 half idea. maybe broken up in segments, which they pretty much did in effect. Pacing of screen shift could irritate some then..someone is going to be irritated anyways..

Two streams, good idea if practical. I came back just now to watch the later half mostly DOA5..interesting grapples. I didn't see much oversexed or whatever, gamers there tended to dress their fighters up and try to beat Jeff (and each other as it turned out). That one did her feeling herself up dance, idk guess she likes herself, though it would have had more meaning (to me) if they repeated that than some guys groin..just the point though. You have to appreciate GB tastes don't run to gratuitous or fan service,. What Vinny did with 'Girlfriend' was absolutely inspired. Wandered off subject..sry.

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

I like the two game format as long as each game is given it's time in the spotlight. Last night DOA5 was barely featured.

Well it cut to DOA whenever Jeff was fighting.. which was good, otherwise it would have become a TNT of watch Jeff watching two people play a fighting game.

I like the busy nature of TNT. The two stream idea just wouldn't work, because instead of having one real show, where people can throw to each other and an energy can be maintained, it would be spread too thin and just really be just two streams of games. I want a show.

@SleepState: I know what you mean. I would actually prefer 1 game per TNT, but if they decide to do continue with the 2 game format, then my idea applies.

Don't like two games showing at once. Trying to watch the game they aren't focused on in a tiny screen is a bad experience.

I don't think having two games going at once works at all. If they want to do two games then split the time and play one for half the session then the other for the rest. I hate having a tiny weirdly angled screen at the bottom.

The problem with the last TNT was Trine 2 just wasn't fun to watch. Any game where you can get stuck on a puzzle and have to redo it multiple times is a bad idea. I ended up watching purely for the DOA5 stuff which was fun, and kinda wished they'd done another scrub league and just played DOA5 exclusively. There was nothing fun about seeing them use the same tactic to get past every puzzle and then have Ryan trying not to lose it when they failed. The only times the community should be playing is with competitive games, such as fighting games and FPS, otherwise I would rather see them do 4 player local co-op. The Borderlands 2 TNT would have been so much better if they'd played it locally instead of joining random games.

I think the biggest issue is what they play, and it's something that could easily be solved. They come up with a few ideas on Monday and then get Dave to create a page so each account can go vote for the game they want to see played.

M-m-m-m-m-multistream stream stream.

@evanbower said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

I like the two game format as long as each game is given it's time in the spotlight. Last night DOA5 was barely featured.

Well it cut to DOA whenever Jeff was fighting.. which was good, otherwise it would have become a TNT of watch Jeff watching two people play a fighting game.

I know. I have since seen the last 40 minutes of the TNT. Those has a good amount of DOA5. But before that Trine 2 seemed like the heavy focus. I understand why. because Jeff was not playing for a long while.

It bothers me when one of the crew is off in their own little gaming area and totally separated from the crew. Trine 2 required Brad, Ryan and Patrick to talk and communicate, and often it was over Jeff, who was trying to crack a joke or answer a question from the chat. It seemed really blah. I much prefer a one-game TNT with everyone talking and joking, instead of chopping the crew in to separate "teams."

Honestly, I don't mind. It's not an Endurance Run so I don't need to focus on every little detail.

This may sound crazy, but I'll have TNT on one screen while doing work or something else on the other. I'll hear them talk and I'll look at the video if it's something I should look at. It's almost like a podcast for me, because I play or am going to play most of the games they feature anyway, so I don't need to watch other people play something out of context.

I don't mind the crew focusing on multiple games during TNT - especially if they would have done that more over the summer when not too many new games were coming out - but the format they used on the Borderlands 2 / Tokyo Jungle just didn't work well. Watching games in split screen like that makes it too hard to really appreciate what's going on in either game. Go full screen and alternate between games if it's going to be a double-feature TNT. The screen layout for that TNT also made things worse since so much of the screen was filled in with border. The border stuff was well done, but there was just too much of it and not enough screen space dedicated to the games.

Borderlands 2 seems like it lent itself perfectly to a 4 player coop TNT session so I was kind of disappointed they didn't get more of the crew involved on that game.

I kinda like having multiple things going on in TNT, not only is it a way to keep something going if one thing breaks down, it gets more folks involved since more games means more players!