#1 Posted by IrrationalBee (20 posts) -

I felt after VGX awards tonight, and Patrick's acknowledgement specifically towards the "Trans-phobic" jokes tonight (among his other obsessions with gender) , that he, and the giant bomb community at large could use a quick tip from someone who maybe has been through the struggle of being trans.

I grew up in Alabama as a Male to Female transsexual, and still currently live here. I do outreach to both local youth and youth abroad, trying to help them both understand how they feel, accept it, and in the end find a doctor to help them get the treatment they need. I do everything in my power to advance my brothers and sisters in this world, and make life better for them.

But there is something that is currently setting us back. It is people pointing out trans-phobic comments, such as what Joel McHale said, that really set us back. At this point, everyone seems to think us as a helpless, weak minority. This couldn't be further from the truth, any trans person who goes through with HRT is use to far, far worse than anything any of you have ever probably heard, said, or thought. It is the fact that you would distinguish us from any other person he made a joke about that is truly offensive.

So Patrick, for the sake of equality, please just say "That joke was bad" instead of "That joke was bad because it was poking fun at a people who are disenfranchised in a thousand worst ways than this"

#2 Posted by TowerSixteen (542 posts) -

Your gonna get a lot of uncomfortable allies for that one.

And I think you misinterpret? The idea isn't that a joke is bad cause it targets trans folk, it's bad because it's premises support underlying bad attitudes. The fact that worse happens is undeniable, but that's no reason not to call it when you see it. That's like saying we should accept and let go casual misogyny because it's not helping with rape.

Your thread title is shitty and gives the impression that you just came here to rant at people whose opinions you disagree with. I hope thats not true.

#3 Edited by Bocam (3713 posts) -

But my white guilt tells me to defend the underprivileged.

#4 Posted by MEATBALL (3187 posts) -

But but my social justice

#5 Posted by Fallen189 (4982 posts) -

But what else does he have

#6 Edited by Itwastuesday (957 posts) -

...Patrick has a street gang?

Also, it would be helpful to provide a link where he said this stuff, I looked on all the regular channels and couldn't find his comments about this, so I'm stumped.

#7 Posted by JJWeatherman (14558 posts) -

I don't know exactly what this is about (because who watches award shows?), but it seems like you're taking good intentions the complete wrong way. It's always good to have people in your corner. And to know they're in your corner.

#8 Posted by J12088 (444 posts) -

Darn he probaby had six articles planned over that joke. Now hes going to have to abandon them.

#9 Posted by IrrationalBee (20 posts) -

@towersixteen: The point I'm trying to make here is that there are TONS of gay comedians who can both make jokes about their sexuality, and take jokes about their sexuality being made. As of right now there really aren't that many for trans people, so any joke that gets made about us automatically gets people who, while having the best intentions at heart, needlessly defend us for a joke that was not remotely offensive, such as the jokes Joel made tonight.

and as for the title, I do understand how it can come off as that, however it is actually a reference to a song by a Veganarchist band, so sorry about that one. But it's a joke, I love Patrick.

#10 Posted by AlisterCat (5531 posts) -

I saw far more comments about him "fat shaming" Jack Black. I don't think it's specific to trans. No group is allowed to be made fun of. I agree with you, though his bad joke was still pathetic.

However, if you think about how other groups have dealt with adversity, just because the black community went through hell during slavery and struggled through the civil rights movement racist jokes don't suddenly become trivial because it isn't the worst thing that could be done. One person in a group cannot represent the opinion of the majority. Though the majority will most likely lean towards being offended by everything. So you might not speak for everyone but you still have a healthy attitude.

The call to offence means absolutely nothing. Listen to Stephen Fry.

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." - Stephen Fry

#11 Posted by Warfare (1633 posts) -

...Patrick has a street gang?

They roll deep.

#12 Posted by ll_Exile_ll (1582 posts) -

What joke are we referring to exactly? I thought pretty much all of them were terrible, but none really stuck out as being offensive.

#13 Posted by WesleyWyndam (153 posts) -
#14 Edited by TruthTellah (8776 posts) -

@irrationalbee: You should take this up with Patrick, not just rant about him in the forum and try to gin up anger. I'm sure he'd be interested to hear your viewpoint on his comments if you perhaps tweeted or e-mailed him. Coming in here and suggesting that people concerned about things like this are some kind of "street gang" is absurd, and you will only make yourself an ally to those who continue to spread hatefulness and bigotry in this community.

If you don't like what Patrick said, talk to him about it. Making a thread like this and encouraging the worst elements within Giant Bomb is only going to make things worse.

#15 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -
#16 Edited by DeadpanCakes (840 posts) -

@irrationalbee: Reminds me of how I felt when I played Bioshock: Infinite. I understand what the game was telling me, but it felt like it was coming from a place that didn't hafta be reminded of all the terrible shit they had to through whenever they looked in the mirror.

The outreach you do sounds interesting, and I'm pretty sure my brother does something very similar.

In regards to the trans-phobic comment, I musta missed it 'cause I was hardly paying any attention during that entire thing, but I agree that you might wanna take this to Patrick directly, and that making a forum post on this probably wasn't the best idea

#17 Edited by Doomed (196 posts) -

So, what were the jokes?

#18 Posted by IrrationalBee (20 posts) -

@irrationalbee: You should take this up with Patrick, not just rant about him in the forum and try to gin up anger. I'm sure he'd be interested to hear your viewpoint on his comments if you perhaps tweeted or e-mailed him. Coming in here and suggesting that people concerned about things like this are some kind of "street gang" is absurd, and you will only make yourself an ally to those who continue to spread hatefulness and bigotry in this community.

If you don't like what Patrick said, talk to him about it. Making a thread like this and encouraging the worst elements within Giant Bomb is only going to make things worse.

The reason I did this in a public forum rather than a private message is because I want people from a community that I think has truly good intentions to not try to "White Knight" for us. I don't only think of Patrick as a caring individual, but the vast majority of the GB community. And again, for the title it is a reference to a song entitled "The only good facist is a dead facist (Dallas Hansen Dance Mix)"

#19 Posted by Sammo21 (3261 posts) -

I'm too white, male, and privileged to understand what is going on. Also, I don't play enough non-games.

Also, Patrick (along with everyone else in the world) makes tons of stupid comments...both on twitter and elsewhere. If people with liberal leanings can't grasp to political correctness then what else can they latch onto?

#20 Edited by TowerSixteen (542 posts) -

@irrationalbee said:

@towersixteen:

The point I'm trying to make here is that there are TONS of gay comedians who can both make jokes about their sexuality, and take jokes about their sexuality being made. As of right now there really aren't that many for trans people, so any joke that gets made about us automatically gets people who, while having the best intentions at heart, needlessly defend us for a joke that was not remotely offensive, such as the jokes Joel made tonight.

and as for the title, I do understand how it can come off as that, however it is actually a reference to a song by a Veganarchist band, so sorry about that one. But it's a joke, I love Patrick.

A link to the specific jokes would be nice. And the problem isn't people making jokes about things, though indeed some people may get tetchy. The problem is when people treat those things as if they were jokes, themselves. It's the difference between The Big Bang Theory, and Community. In the Big Bang Theory, and entire joke might be "Nerds play D&D" or "Sheldon knows a lot about video games, and plays ones like final fantasy!" and that's the entire joke- treating those pursuits as something inherently to be laughed at, while reinforcing stereotypes that people who don't actually enjoy those things already believe about say, D&D and the people who enjoy it.

Whereas community can make, you know, an actual joke about video games or d&d and have it include actual wit, without looking down on the thing in question inherently. I think it's analogous, though certainly some are oversensitive.

#21 Edited by Itwastuesday (957 posts) -

WHAT DID PATRICK SAY? WHAT WAS THE JOKE? this is what i must know

#22 Posted by BeachThunder (11830 posts) -

...Patrick has a street gang?

I believe it's actually a biker gang.

#23 Edited by TruthTellah (8776 posts) -

@irrationalbee said:

@truthtellah said:

@irrationalbee: You should take this up with Patrick, not just rant about him in the forum and try to gin up anger. I'm sure he'd be interested to hear your viewpoint on his comments if you perhaps tweeted or e-mailed him. Coming in here and suggesting that people concerned about things like this are some kind of "street gang" is absurd, and you will only make yourself an ally to those who continue to spread hatefulness and bigotry in this community.

If you don't like what Patrick said, talk to him about it. Making a thread like this and encouraging the worst elements within Giant Bomb is only going to make things worse.

The reason I did this in a public forum rather than a private message is because I want people from a community that I think has truly good intentions to not try to "White Knight" for us. I don't only think of Patrick as a caring individual, but the vast majority of the GB community. And again, for the title it is a reference to a song entitled "The only good facist is a dead facist (Dallas Hansen Dance Mix)"

If you actually talk to him instead of jumping to intentionally or unintentionally inciting more anger toward him and anyone else somewhat bothered by jokes like that, perhaps he might even write a bit about the topic, but ambushing him with this on the forum when you know full well that people love to use Patrick as a whipping boy around here and rail against anyone that might be bothered by anything at all is simply careless at best.

I can absolutely understand your interest in trying to have more people understand your viewpoint, but going about it like this is bound to make any chance of a real conversation near impossible.

#24 Posted by GuyIncognito (445 posts) -

I hope I understand: Patrick was saying "dont make fun of the xyz people because theyre (insert another veiled perhaps unintentional insult)."

#25 Edited by erhard (399 posts) -

@doomed: @itwastuesday: If people are referring to what I think they are, he said something along the lines of "he, or she, or he‐she", which is can hardly be interpreted as a joke about transsexuals. I don't even think it was a joke. He was expressing uncertainty about a twitter user's gender.

This is a case of people seeing what they want to see.

#27 Edited by Feanor (1387 posts) -

A joke is a joke, if you don't find it funny move along, no need to get preachy. One dudes joke isn't the problem when it comes to equality, and chastising that person on twitter isn't the solution. Worry more about discrimination in the work place, schools, and politics...not somebody's stand up routine.

#28 Posted by Vuud (1954 posts) -

Yeah just keep stirring and stirring the pot...

And if Patrick has a street gang, its definitely the West Side Story kind.

#29 Edited by TruthTellah (8776 posts) -

For those curious, this is all Patrick said about it as part of a general criticism of McHale's jokes:

And when someone replied:

@patrickklepek even the two transphobic jokes he made?

He said:

Doesn't seem like that big of a response to me, but I suppose not liking some tasteless jokes is enough to get some hate these days.

#30 Posted by Itwastuesday (957 posts) -
@feanor said:

A joke is a joke, if you don't find it funny move along, no need to get preachy. One dudes joke isn't the problem when it comes to equality, and chastising that person on twitter isn't the solution. Worry more about discrimination in the work place, schools, and politics...not somebody's stand up routine.

https://twitter.com/patrickklepek

WHERE IS THE TWEET I'M AN OLD MAN I'M CONFUSED

#31 Posted by IrrationalBee (20 posts) -

@towersixteen: Alright, Heres some context which I should have included in the original post and my apologize for not.

https://twitter.com/patrickklepek/status/409481966719729664

While he does not point it out first, does respond to it. And this was just along with his comments in his TedX speech in which he pointed out the one trans reviewer who was roasted in the comments of their own GTA review, which I think would have happened to a Biological girl if they had made the same points. And as for what jokes were made, the one that I know of was " Joel McHale jokingly put the rumors to rest that Wario had “undergone sex reassignment surgery.”" which is both unfunny, and honestly not even remotely offensive, and both not worth pointing out, and not worth acknowledging when someone points it out.

#32 Posted by Jumbs (244 posts) -

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=11609

Also, call to moderators to ban anyone who says things like "Political Correctness gone too far!" or "Social Justice Warrior!" unironically.

#33 Posted by Feanor (1387 posts) -

@itwastuesday: I should have made myself more clear. I wasn't exactly referring to anything Patrick said, I'm not a fan of his so I don't read his twitter. I was referring more toward the white knights of political correctness that are all over twitter.

#34 Edited by AlisterCat (5531 posts) -

@jumbs: It's about the concept of offence. The original statement is in regard to the right for comedians to cause offence, and defending free speech from government enforced censorship. I should add it was in regards to religion, not swearing, and against UK blasphemy laws. It applies to everything. What part makes me ignorant exactly? I didn't excuse the joke, or the man who made the joke, or make light of the challenges trans people face.

#35 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4706 posts) -

@erhard said:

@doomed: @itwastuesday: If people are referring to what I think they are, he said something along the lines of "he, or she, or he‐she", which is can hardly be interpreted as a joke about transsexuals. I don't even think it was a joke. He was expressing uncertainty about a twitter user's gender.

This is a case of people seeing what they want to see.

Even so that's more a reference to hermaphrodites and not transexuals. The way I understand it, transexuals are people in the middle of a transition so once you're fully aligned either way you're not a transexual anymore. At least that's how I think it works. I don't have any great insight into the matter.

As far as OP goes; good. More people need to say what you're saying, sister. Can't add anything else to the argument other than that.

#36 Posted by Feanor (1387 posts) -
@jumbs said:

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=11609

Also, call to moderators to ban anyone who says things like "Political Correctness gone too far!" or "Social Justice Warrior!" unironically.

So you discriminate against people who have a different opinion than your own?

#37 Posted by Jumbs (244 posts) -

@jumbs: It's about the concept of offence. The original statement is in regard to the right for comedians to cause offence, and defending free speech from government enforced censorship. I should add it was in regards to religion, not swearing, and against UK blasphemy laws. It applies to everything. What part makes me ignorant exactly? I didn't excuse the joke, or the man who made the joke, or make light of the challenges trans people face.

No one is arguing for government enforced censorship. It's arguing for people to stop being shitty human beings and to treat people with some form of dignity and respect.

#38 Posted by Castiel (2572 posts) -

@itwastuesday said:

...Patrick has a street gang?

I believe it's actually a biker gang.

More like a bicycle gang.

#39 Posted by Jumbs (244 posts) -

@feanor said:
@jumbs said:

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=11609

Also, call to moderators to ban anyone who says things like "Political Correctness gone too far!" or "Social Justice Warrior!" unironically.

So you discriminate against people who have a different opinion than your own?

No, I discriminate against idiots.

#40 Edited by TowerSixteen (542 posts) -

@irrationalbee said:

@towersixteen:

Alright, Heres some context which I should have included in the original post and my apologize for not.

https://twitter.com/patrickklepek/status/409481966719729664

While he does not point it out first, does respond to it. And this was just along with his comments in his TedX speech in which he pointed out the one trans reviewer who was roasted in the comments of their own GTA review, which I think would have happened to a Biological girl if they had made the same points. And as for what jokes were made, the one that I know of was " Joel McHale jokingly put the rumors to rest that Wario had “undergone sex reassignment surgery.”" which is both unfunny, and honestly not even remotely offensive, and both not worth pointing out, and not worth acknowledging when someone points it out.

I perfectly well agree that that joke is niether particularly offensive not funny.(though apparently there were two?) And about TedX, fine, but if it's the same eithar way(maybe maybe not, honestly) why even bring up the fact that the person is trans? Why is that notable? Some quick research (http://guardianlv.com/2013/09/grand-theft-auto-v-fans-demand-game-reviewer-be-fired-after-less-than-perfect-score/) suggests the fact that she was trans absolutely made a difference in peoples reaction. Her criticism was MILD compared to other folks and she got a reaction like that. Thats absolutly worth noticing.

Addendum: A notable comment from the article I linked: "No, it has everything to do with the fact IT is a terrible reviewer with a history of poor reviews."

PPS: some more "That’s what you get for marking a game score down based on nothing but your perverse Worldview. I read the review and this transsexual’s problem was that apparently the game suffered from misogyny and a lack of political correctness. Insane. The transsexual should not only be fired but hanged too." "Carolyn is not a “she,” still a dude sorry. A man that chooses to wear women’s clothing, get his anatomy turned inside out, some cosmetic surgery, and possibly take artificial hormones is NOT a woman. I dont care how politically incorrect that is, needed to be said. The day and age we live in…"

#41 Posted by Sammo21 (3261 posts) -

@jumbs: Which is a moot point when Joe Mchale really never made any trans-"phobic" jokes at all.

#42 Edited by TruthTellah (8776 posts) -
@castiel said:

@beachthunder said:

@itwastuesday said:

...Patrick has a street gang?

I believe it's actually a biker gang.

More like a bicycle gang.

Pretty sure it's more of a Portland-style bicycle cooperative.

#43 Posted by Feanor (1387 posts) -
@jumbs said:

@feanor said:
@jumbs said:

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=11609

Also, call to moderators to ban anyone who says things like "Political Correctness gone too far!" or "Social Justice Warrior!" unironically.

So you discriminate against people who have a different opinion than your own?

No, I discriminate against idiots.


How dare you. Idiot is an archaic term for the mentally disabled. You have no right to discriminate against those people.

#44 Posted by Jumbs (244 posts) -

@feanor said:
@jumbs said:

@feanor said:
@jumbs said:

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=11609

Also, call to moderators to ban anyone who says things like "Political Correctness gone too far!" or "Social Justice Warrior!" unironically.

So you discriminate against people who have a different opinion than your own?

No, I discriminate against idiots.

How dare you. Idiot is an archaic term for the mentally disabled. You have no right to discriminate against those people.

People actually think this is a valid argument. How cute.

#45 Posted by Landon (4137 posts) -

Hey, I live in Alabama too!

#46 Posted by Feanor (1387 posts) -
@jumbs said:

@feanor said:
@jumbs said:

@feanor said:
@jumbs said:

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=11609

Also, call to moderators to ban anyone who says things like "Political Correctness gone too far!" or "Social Justice Warrior!" unironically.

So you discriminate against people who have a different opinion than your own?

No, I discriminate against idiots.

How dare you. Idiot is an archaic term for the mentally disabled. You have no right to discriminate against those people.

People actually think this is a valid argument. How cute.


Yes the overly politically correct people who have gone to far.

#47 Posted by Scampbell (496 posts) -

...Patrick has a street gang?

Also, it would be helpful to provide a link where he said this stuff, I looked on all the regular channels and couldn't find his comments about this, so I'm stumped.

Apparently "Joel McHale jokingly put the rumors to rest that Wario had “undergone sex reassignment surgery.”" I kinda think that is a bit offensive, as it seems to put a negative connotation on changing gender. Of course you should be able to make jokes about whatever you want, it is the way you do it that matters.

#48 Posted by 42manZ (105 posts) -

@irrationalbee: I might say that it is worth keeping in mind that Patrick probably didn't use that in his speech to point out hate towards trans people, but simply pointing out hate on the internet. You are right that a biological woman reviewing GTA might get the same comments, but perhaps if that was the case Patrick still would have used it as a recent example. Looking at the tweets saying "I hope that goes without saying" to somebody asking him if he thought jokes were in bad taste or not is not trying to be a white knight for something. He's not saying that trans humor is in bad taste, only the jokes that McHale made were. I don't know what these jokes were, or if they even existed, but truth be told it does not matter. You are taking a minor, insignificant comment and blowing it way out of proportion on the forums. I agree with others, bring it to Patrick's attention privately and you might get a real response.

#49 Edited by TruthTellah (8776 posts) -
@jumbs said:

@feanor said:
@jumbs said:

@feanor said:
@jumbs said:

http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=11609

Also, call to moderators to ban anyone who says things like "Political Correctness gone too far!" or "Social Justice Warrior!" unironically.

So you discriminate against people who have a different opinion than your own?

No, I discriminate against idiots.

How dare you. Idiot is an archaic term for the mentally disabled. You have no right to discriminate against those people.

People actually think this is a valid argument. How cute.

He is messing with you. Don't waste your time and just end up cluttering up this thread. There is nothing to gain here, Jumbs.

#50 Edited by TowerSixteen (542 posts) -

@scampbell said:
@itwastuesday said:

...Patrick has a street gang?

Also, it would be helpful to provide a link where he said this stuff, I looked on all the regular channels and couldn't find his comments about this, so I'm stumped.

Apparently "Joel McHale jokingly put the rumors to rest that Wario had “undergone sex reassignment surgery.”" I kinda think that is a bit offensive, as it seems to put a negative connotation on changing gender. Of course you should be able to make jokes about whatever you want, it is the way you do it that matters.

In fairness, I do think the border house blog tends to be a ...poor site, and a bit trigger-happy (snrk, that was bad, and unintentional). They once tried to make the case that Diablo 3 was racist because the main black role model was a fallen angel.