Tropes Vs. Women in Video Games Ep1

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JasonR86

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I think it's pretty lame that she disabled the comments.

I think it was absolutely necessary that she did.

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jadegl

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@thomasnash: I think methodology would be one of the more valid concerns to focus on.I certainly understand that perspective, I just think it may be a bit early to judge. I want to see where this goes and get a better idea of her process and ideas. I think one video may be too little at this point. It would be like judging a whole season of Breaking Bad or Mad Men based on the first episode of the season, and I know that if I had done that with certain shows, I would have missed out on some good stuff.

I realize that I am talking a lot in generalities directed to the whole thread in some of my comments as well, so I don't mean to lump you together with the people that I may think are jumping the gun or being unfair.

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@jasonr86 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

@jasonr86 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

I just don't understand why we even spend this much time on this topic.

Not that I believe it should be ignored, but why can't we just move on?

It's like picking at a scab over and over again. It's not gonna heal that way.

Women, much like other groups that have been undermined in society, can't brute force their way up the rungs of society. They're gonna have to let it take it's course.

Please stop with this shit. If you don't like the games that come out, guess what?, go make your fucking own and shut the fuck up!!

It'll never take it's course if the problem is ignored. Problems with how the problem is approached can certainly arises and can be discussed. But ignoring the problem will never improve the problem.

It's not a matter of ignoring it. However, shoving it in people's faces all the time makes it a lot less palatable.

You attract a lot more bees with honey then vinegar.

Equality will happen if it's deemed important enough. Not because a select few "patriots of virtue" will it to happen.

Though Anita and other active feminist are handling their message differently then the man I'm about to mention I wonder if people said the same thing to Martin Luther King? Hoping for change rarely works. People have to work for it. It's shoved in our faces because we are actively involved in a gaming forum. The majority of people have no fucking clue who Anita is. So she and people like her need to be loud so that those that are able to institute such change can actual do so. We here, honestly, don't matter that much because we can't lead to change on our own. But stating that she just needs to shut up and go away is kind of idiotic. No offense duder.

I don't believe in the individual making a difference. I think individuals such the likes of MLK, and even Hitler (and I am of Jewish descent) are a result of a societal response/need. The individual themselves are not important. They could have been substituted with anyone else. Idiotic as it may be, change will happen, when society sees it as important to its survival. I just don't believe we've hit that time in gaming. And it'll be a long, long time before society gives two shits about a hobby.

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#204  Edited By mellotronrules

@pazy said:

@sergio said:

@mellotronrules said:
@brodehouse said:

with the comments disabled to prevent it from being a discussion.

in the interests of full disclosure: she was also the victim of a sustained harassment campaign by a load of cretins. that can be interpreted as a convenient way to stifle dissent- but let's be real- she had comments on at the start, and it's not like the discourse was predominantly civil nor astute.

Not all negative comments were sexist, and she could have disabled them once the vile comments started. Instead she left them so she could point at them and say people are trying to shut her down. That garnered her more contributions to her kickstarter. She actually was the damsel in distress.

Yeah, while she may have good points the way she is handing herself and presenting those points just makes me hate her before it even starts. I dont intend to watch her video, give her anymore thought and will just silently hope she goes away.

@jams said:

Yeah. Look at Patrick. He gets a lot of hate on comments all the time too but he doesn't go around turning off comments. He's had some pretty hurtful comments thrown his way too. If she wants to show that she is strong and independent why would she hide behind control like that? Can't she be the better person and just ignore the bad comments and start discussions with the good ones? That would ultimately kill her whole purpose in life though wouldn't it?

so you're all telling me that it's unreasonable to disable comments if you're receiving death threats and threats of sexual violence, as well as attempts to hack your online identity (twitter, etc).? or to draw attention to this fact? of course not all the negative comments will be of this nature, but you can be damn sure giant bomb would take action if threats were made against patrick of a similar nature.

you don't get to have it both ways. you can't say she's a coward for disabling comments, and then a damsel for leaving them on and drawing attention to the troglodytes that were attempting to intimidate her. besides- we're talking about youtube comments...the last great bastion for those who enjoy ethnic slurs, noting good boobshot timestamps, and beliebers. not exactly a paragon of fair and measured discourse.

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rotten_avocado

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#205  Edited By rotten_avocado

@pazy said:

@sergio said:

@mellotronrules said:
@brodehouse said:

with the comments disabled to prevent it from being a discussion.

in the interests of full disclosure: she was also the victim of a sustained harassment campaign by a load of cretins. that can be interpreted as a convenient way to stifle dissent- but let's be real- she had comments on at the start, and it's not like the discourse was predominantly civil nor astute.

Not all negative comments were sexist, and she could have disabled them once the vile comments started. Instead she left them so she could point at them and say people are trying to shut her down. That garnered her more contributions to her kickstarter. She actually was the damsel in distress.

Yeah, while she may have good points the way she is handing herself and presenting those points just makes me hate her before it even starts. I dont intend to watch her video, give her anymore thought and will just silently hope she goes away.

@jams said:

Yeah. Look at Patrick. He gets a lot of hate on comments all the time too but he doesn't go around turning off comments. He's had some pretty hurtful comments thrown his way too. If she wants to show that she is strong and independent why would she hide behind control like that? Can't she be the better person and just ignore the bad comments and start discussions with the good ones? That would ultimately kill her whole purpose in life though wouldn't it?

so you're all telling me that it's unreasonable to disable comments if you're receiving death threats and threats of sexual violence, as well as attempts to hack your online identity (twitter, etc).? or to draw attention to this fact? of course not all the negative comments will be of this nature, but you can be damn sure giant bomb would take action if threats were made against patrick of a similar nature.

you don't get to have it both ways. you can't say she's a coward for disabling comments, and then a damsel for leaving them on and drawing attention to the troglodytes that were attempting to intimidate her. besides- we're talking about youtube comments...the last great bastion for those who enjoy ethnic slurs, noting good boobshot timestamps, and beliebers. not exactly a paragon of fair and measured discourse.

If you're gonna put yourself on the cross, put yourself on the cross.
Especially if no one asked you to do it.

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RockyRaccoon37

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I just don't understand why we even spend this much time on this topic.

Not that I believe it should be ignored, but why can't we just move on?

It's like picking at a scab over and over again. It's not gonna heal that way.

Women, much like other groups that have been undermined in society, can't brute force their way up the rungs of society. They're gonna have to let it take it's course.

Please stop with this shit. If you don't like the games that come out, guess what?, go make your fucking own and shut the fuck up!!

Says the straight white man.

Just a shot in the dark, but I'm gonna guess I hit the bullseye.

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rotten_avocado

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#207  Edited By rotten_avocado

@rockyraccoon37 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

I just don't understand why we even spend this much time on this topic.

Not that I believe it should be ignored, but why can't we just move on?

It's like picking at a scab over and over again. It's not gonna heal that way.

Women, much like other groups that have been undermined in society, can't brute force their way up the rungs of society. They're gonna have to let it take it's course.

Please stop with this shit. If you don't like the games that come out, guess what?, go make your fucking own and shut the fuck up!!

Says the straight white man.

Just a shot in the dark, but I'm gonna guess I hit the bullseye.

Yes you did. However, a Jewish white guy.

I am well aware of discrimination. Talk to my dead family in ashes.

Oh yeah. I'm not a dentist or lawyer either.

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#208  Edited By Sergio

It's a well made video but the problem, at least for me, is that it goes on too long and delves into history lesson. It's less important that Mario has had a damsel in distress for 20 years than the fact that it's still happening in video games, which she says she goes into next episode. I really feel like she should have combined this episode with what I assume will be next and get to her conclusions quicker.

I thought the history of the trope was important to show how long it's been around. The only problem, and it may be a minor problem, is that there was no historical or social context to explain why this trope exists. Regardless of her claim that men being stronger is a myth, the truth is that historically, men have been the dominant gender. The vast majority of warriors, soldiers, and knights historically have been men. Stories written at the time will focus on chivalrous knights saving damsels in distress. Yes, that wasn't fair to women, but that's the case historically.

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EXTomar

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I have to agree with others: She was getting violent threats while Patrick just gets static about how stupid he is for believing any of it. I think there is a difference in severity where I am surprised people wonder why comments are disabled.

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#210  Edited By JasonR86

@rockyraccoon37 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

I just don't understand why we even spend this much time on this topic.

Not that I believe it should be ignored, but why can't we just move on?

It's like picking at a scab over and over again. It's not gonna heal that way.

Women, much like other groups that have been undermined in society, can't brute force their way up the rungs of society. They're gonna have to let it take it's course.

Please stop with this shit. If you don't like the games that come out, guess what?, go make your fucking own and shut the fuck up!!

Says the straight white man.

Just a shot in the dark, but I'm gonna guess I hit the bullseye.

I'm a straight white man having a conversation with this dude taking the other angle. So fuck that stupid, tired-ass stereotype.

@rotten_avocado said:

@jasonr86 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

@jasonr86 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

I just don't understand why we even spend this much time on this topic.

Not that I believe it should be ignored, but why can't we just move on?

It's like picking at a scab over and over again. It's not gonna heal that way.

Women, much like other groups that have been undermined in society, can't brute force their way up the rungs of society. They're gonna have to let it take it's course.

Please stop with this shit. If you don't like the games that come out, guess what?, go make your fucking own and shut the fuck up!!

It'll never take it's course if the problem is ignored. Problems with how the problem is approached can certainly arises and can be discussed. But ignoring the problem will never improve the problem.

It's not a matter of ignoring it. However, shoving it in people's faces all the time makes it a lot less palatable.

You attract a lot more bees with honey then vinegar.

Equality will happen if it's deemed important enough. Not because a select few "patriots of virtue" will it to happen.

Though Anita and other active feminist are handling their message differently then the man I'm about to mention I wonder if people said the same thing to Martin Luther King? Hoping for change rarely works. People have to work for it. It's shoved in our faces because we are actively involved in a gaming forum. The majority of people have no fucking clue who Anita is. So she and people like her need to be loud so that those that are able to institute such change can actual do so. We here, honestly, don't matter that much because we can't lead to change on our own. But stating that she just needs to shut up and go away is kind of idiotic. No offense duder.

I don't believe in the individual making a difference. I think individuals such the likes of MLK, and even Hitler (and I am of Jewish descent) are a result of a societal response/need. The individual themselves are not important. They could have been substituted with anyone else. Idiotic as it may be, change will happen, when society sees it as important to its survival. I just don't believe we've hit that time in gaming. And it'll be a long, long time before society gives two shits about a hobby.

Every change the US has made regarding race, gender, and class has been kicking and screaming. In most cases individuals or groups seemed to force their hand. I see where you're coming from and it probably isn't as simple as an individual or group forcing change but it equally probably isn't as simple as a society up and changing because it felt the need to. Both live in a context together with one working with the other and neither will do anything if one doesn't act.

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If you're gonna put yourself on the cross, put yourself on the cross.

Especially if no one asked you to do it.

right- because it's constructive to say "she was asking for it" as opposed to focusing on the nefarious behavior.

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Really, really good so far. Had no idea Star Fox Adventures was originally going to be a Krystal-centered game. That sax music. Jesus. This is fantastic work.

Just wanted to make a quick correction. The original Star Fox Adventures wasn't solely about Krystal. It was equally about her brother Sabre. The story was about the two siblings and you would be able to change between the two on the fly and they both had the exact same moveset save one had a unique traveling/puzzle solving item only they can use. I didn't like how she glossed over that point in order to accentuate her argument, but her point about them sexualizing her and putting her in the background is a good one. She does this for a few of he other points to regarding other games but I don't want to get into a long winded discussion like i did on another forum so I'll just leave that out for now.

Overall I found video actually well done and much better than her previous efforts, though nowhere near worth all the money she received or all the delays it has gotten. Hopefully as the series progresses she will go much more in-depth with her topic as right now it's pretty lackluster.

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@jasonr86 said:

@rockyraccoon37 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

I just don't understand why we even spend this much time on this topic.

Not that I believe it should be ignored, but why can't we just move on?

It's like picking at a scab over and over again. It's not gonna heal that way.

Women, much like other groups that have been undermined in society, can't brute force their way up the rungs of society. They're gonna have to let it take it's course.

Please stop with this shit. If you don't like the games that come out, guess what?, go make your fucking own and shut the fuck up!!

Says the straight white man.

Just a shot in the dark, but I'm gonna guess I hit the bullseye.

I'm a straight white man have a conversation with this dude taking the other angle. So fuck that stupid, tired-ass stereotype.

@rotten_avocado said:

@jasonr86 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

@jasonr86 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

I just don't understand why we even spend this much time on this topic.

Not that I believe it should be ignored, but why can't we just move on?

It's like picking at a scab over and over again. It's not gonna heal that way.

Women, much like other groups that have been undermined in society, can't brute force their way up the rungs of society. They're gonna have to let it take it's course.

Please stop with this shit. If you don't like the games that come out, guess what?, go make your fucking own and shut the fuck up!!

It'll never take it's course if the problem is ignored. Problems with how the problem is approached can certainly arises and can be discussed. But ignoring the problem will never improve the problem.

It's not a matter of ignoring it. However, shoving it in people's faces all the time makes it a lot less palatable.

You attract a lot more bees with honey then vinegar.

Equality will happen if it's deemed important enough. Not because a select few "patriots of virtue" will it to happen.

Though Anita and other active feminist are handling their message differently then the man I'm about to mention I wonder if people said the same thing to Martin Luther King? Hoping for change rarely works. People have to work for it. It's shoved in our faces because we are actively involved in a gaming forum. The majority of people have no fucking clue who Anita is. So she and people like her need to be loud so that those that are able to institute such change can actual do so. We here, honestly, don't matter that much because we can't lead to change on our own. But stating that she just needs to shut up and go away is kind of idiotic. No offense duder.

I don't believe in the individual making a difference. I think individuals such the likes of MLK, and even Hitler (and I am of Jewish descent) are a result of a societal response/need. The individual themselves are not important. They could have been substituted with anyone else. Idiotic as it may be, change will happen, when society sees it as important to its survival. I just don't believe we've hit that time in gaming. And it'll be a long, long time before society gives two shits about a hobby.

Every change the US has made regarding race, gender, and class has been kicking and screaming. In most cases individuals or groups seemed to force their hand. I see where you're coming from and it probably isn't as simple as an individual or group forcing change but it equally probably isn't as simple as a society up and changing because it felt the need to. Both live in a context together with one working with the other and neither will do anything if one doesn't act.

Well said. I feel social movements as a gradual progression. I would argue that the kicking and screaming aren't necessarily what caused those changes in the US you spoke of. Doing instead of talking. Practicing what you preach. Setting examples for others. Not pointing blame and casting stones. If woman want a different gaming environment, they should work to create one. It may not happen over night, but as something gradual. What I see here is a lot of finger pointing and a lot of misdirect shaming. I might be overly sensitive, but it would be better to have an atmosphere of cooperation towards making things better than drudging up past follys to unintentionally, or intentionally, rub it in others faces. I dunno.

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@rockyraccoon37 said:

@jadegl said:

@thomasnash: I remember vividly spending hours analyzing William Carlos William's poem "The Red Wheelbarrow" for a 20th Century Poetry class in college. We went around and around our table, and this was outside of class on our own time, until someone said "You know, maybe it IS just a red wheelbarrow."

However, that doesn't mean that things shouldn't be talked about critically and with an eye to analysis and interpretation. As video games grow as a medium, this will happen, much like what we do with literature, poetry, movies, television, and music. As a form of expression, games are very new as compared to the things I just listed, so it's not surprising that people are pushing back against critique and interpretation. Again, sometimes a red wheelbarrow maybe is just a red wheelbarrow! But that doesn't lessen the importance of the discussion, no matter where you fall on the spectrum.

On top of that, I am sure William Shakespeare would be shocked that we spend years of school time devoted to studying and deconstructing his plays with just about every form of critique and interpretation in our toolbox. They were just meant to be fun and entertainment for the audience of his time. I view video games much the same way. Maybe 300 years from now someone will be looking at Shadow of the Colossus, Journey, or Braid in much the same way people look at Macbeth, Julius Caesar, or King Lear.

Can we be best friends?

Absolutely! *Internet high five*

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I have not read this thread. I liked the video. It felt a little long, as she was reciting a bunch of things I already knew. Not that her point is any less valid because of that. I am looking forward to the next episode as games now a days have more story and thus she can get more critical, less stating the issue. If that makes sense. Solid first video overall.

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SpaceInsomniac

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@jasonr86 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

It's not a matter of ignoring it. However, shoving it in people's faces all the time makes it a lot less palatable.

You attract a lot more bees with honey then vinegar.

Equality will happen if it's deemed important enough. Not because a select few "patriots of virtue" will it to happen.

Though Anita and other active feminist are handling their message differently then the man I'm about to mention I wonder if people said the same thing to Martin Luther King? Hoping for change rarely works.

I absolutely believe that subjects like this should be discussed, and I'm right with you on that one. So forgive me when I say that this section that I quoted strikes me as FAR too close to equating historical female oppression with historical black oppression, and anyone who does that--as far as I'm concerned--can fuck right off.

If that wasn't your intent, and it was perhaps just a poor example, that's fine. But I've seen some people make that argument, and it's just an awful thing to even suggest.

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rotten_avocado

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#218  Edited By rotten_avocado

@rotten_avocado said:

If you're gonna put yourself on the cross, put yourself on the cross.

Especially if no one asked you to do it.

So on top of having little to no understanding the history of the rise of Fascism in Germany, or the Civil Rights Movement, you're also devoid of empathy and a total prick.

Got it.

Someone finally gets me :)

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rotten_avocado

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@jasonr86 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

It's not a matter of ignoring it. However, shoving it in people's faces all the time makes it a lot less palatable.

You attract a lot more bees with honey then vinegar.

Equality will happen if it's deemed important enough. Not because a select few "patriots of virtue" will it to happen.

Though Anita and other active feminist are handling their message differently then the man I'm about to mention I wonder if people said the same thing to Martin Luther King? Hoping for change rarely works.

I absolutely believe that subjects like this should be discussed, and I'm right with you on that one. So forgive me when I say that this section that I quoted strikes me as FAR too close to equating historical female oppression with historical black oppression, and anyone who does that--as far as I'm concerned--can fuck right off.

If that wasn't your intent, and it was perhaps just a poor example, that's fine. But I've seen some people make that argument, and it's just an awful thing to even suggest.

More like a poor example.

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RockyRaccoon37

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#220  Edited By RockyRaccoon37

@rockyraccoon37 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

I just don't understand why we even spend this much time on this topic.

Not that I believe it should be ignored, but why can't we just move on?

It's like picking at a scab over and over again. It's not gonna heal that way.

Women, much like other groups that have been undermined in society, can't brute force their way up the rungs of society. They're gonna have to let it take it's course.

Please stop with this shit. If you don't like the games that come out, guess what?, go make your fucking own and shut the fuck up!!

Says the straight white man.

Just a shot in the dark, but I'm gonna guess I hit the bullseye.

Yes you did. However, a Jewish white guy.

I am well aware of discrimination. Talk to my dead family in ashes.

Oh yeah. I'm not a dentist or lawyer either.

HAHAHAHAHA WHAT

@jasonr86: My point is simply that those who use the "why can't you just get over it" argument, and those who claim that we need to let go of history in order to move forward are predominately people who have not experience discrimination.

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@rotten_avocado said:

If you're gonna put yourself on the cross, put yourself on the cross.

Especially if no one asked you to do it.

right- because it's constructive to say "she was asking for it" as opposed to focusing on the nefarious behavior.

Not that she's asking for it, but I do believe she should weather the storm for her beliefs..

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RockyRaccoon37

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@rockyraccoon37 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

If you're gonna put yourself on the cross, put yourself on the cross.

Especially if no one asked you to do it.

So on top of having little to no understanding the history of the rise of Fascism in Germany, or the Civil Rights Movement, you're also devoid of empathy and a total prick.

Got it.

Someone finally gets me :)

I'm two for two!

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RockyRaccoon37

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#223  Edited By RockyRaccoon37

@mellotronrules said:

@rotten_avocado said:

If you're gonna put yourself on the cross, put yourself on the cross.

Especially if no one asked you to do it.

right- because it's constructive to say "she was asking for it" as opposed to focusing on the nefarious behavior.

Not that she's asking for it, but I do believe she should weather the storm for her beliefs..

You're suggesting that she deserves threats of physical and sexual violence and hateful slurs for expressing her thoughts?

Why should someone have to hear and see comments like that for speaking their mind-- it's not like she's espousing hate speech by saying that Princess Peach is a damsel in distress, and that perhaps women are poorly represented in video games.

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#224  Edited By isomeri

I don't disagree with her points. However, as she stated in the video, videogames are not really worse than any other type of media when it comes to the depiction of women.

Also with indie games being as prevalent as they are now I see no reason why women would not be able to make their own games where they raise the status of all womankind.

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JasonR86

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#225  Edited By JasonR86

@rotten_avocado said:

@spaceinsomniac said:

@jasonr86 said:

@rotten_avocado said:

It's not a matter of ignoring it. However, shoving it in people's faces all the time makes it a lot less palatable.

You attract a lot more bees with honey then vinegar.

Equality will happen if it's deemed important enough. Not because a select few "patriots of virtue" will it to happen.

Though Anita and other active feminist are handling their message differently then the man I'm about to mention I wonder if people said the same thing to Martin Luther King? Hoping for change rarely works.

I absolutely believe that subjects like this should be discussed, and I'm right with you on that one. So forgive me when I say that this section that I quoted strikes me as FAR too close to equating historical female oppression with historical black oppression, and anyone who does that--as far as I'm concerned--can fuck right off.

If that wasn't your intent, and it was perhaps just a poor example, that's fine. But I've seen some people make that argument, and it's just an awful thing to even suggest.

More like a poor example.

It's an issue of equality in both examples. We can argue the relative severity all day long. But they both fit in the same category. And you can tell me to fuck off if you'd like. I've heard worse.

@rockyraccoon37:

It's just a pseudo-polite way to say 'shut up' to people who disagree with these topics. Anita and other feminists are free to have their viewpoints and express them. Just as those that disagree with them do.

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mellotronrules

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#226  Edited By mellotronrules

@mellotronrules said:

@rotten_avocado said:

If you're gonna put yourself on the cross, put yourself on the cross.

Especially if no one asked you to do it.

right- because it's constructive to say "she was asking for it" as opposed to focusing on the nefarious behavior.

Not that she's asking for it, but I do believe she should weather the storm for her beliefs..

and there are already people here, in these comments, that were insinuating she's the very 'damsel in distress' she's critiquing by drawing attention to the particularly vile contributions. it's a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't.

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kishinfoulux

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I think these videos make some good critical points about her previous work, but I'm looking forward to watching this new series and judging it on its own. It's a serious subject, so I hope she does a better job with things this time.

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Topic should be over here. I've watched these before and my dude destroys her. STOP...GIVING...HER...ATTENTION.

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#228  Edited By MikkaQ

All of these videos and all of this discussion is fine and dandy but what are people honestly expected to do here? No one's proposed a real and practical solution to this supposed problem. Is this just a pointless academic exercise or will changes come from this discussion?

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#229  Edited By Jams

@mellotronrules said:

so you're all telling me that it's unreasonable to disable comments if you're receiving death threats and threats of sexual violence, as well as attempts to hack your online identity (twitter, etc).? or to draw attention to this fact? of course not all the negative comments will be of this nature, but you can be damn sure giant bomb would take action if threats were made against patrick of a similar nature.

you don't get to have it both ways. you can't say she's a coward for disabling comments, and then a damsel for leaving them on and drawing attention to the troglodytes that were attempting to intimidate her. besides- we're talking about youtube comments...the last great bastion for those who enjoy ethnic slurs, noting good boobshot timestamps, and beliebers. not exactly a paragon of fair and measured discourse.

I never said it was unreasonable to disable comments. But if you're trying to incite changes in society and giving yourself a voice, why would you stop everyone else for trying to speak their mind? What if they bring something to the discussion that can help your cause or debunk it completely? You can still disable the shitty comments as they come. But what happens when she deletes all the horrid comments? She leaves all the well thought out counter arguments that make her out to be what she really is, a control freak that wants the world to be how she sees it. She'll name anybody who disagrees with her a misogynist or brainwashed or whatever. She doesn't want to initiate change, she wants to tell people what to do without the ability to say otherwise.

How does disabling comments help prevent people from hacking your social profiles?

The reason why I think nay, know that she's a charlatan is because she thinks women being sexual is sexist and that somehow man is to blame. Even when the women who are being sexuality love it and are happy with it, she blames sexism. I wouldn't doubt that if she had her way every woman would be wearing burka's and men would have their eye's and dicks removed from their bodies.

She's anti equality and that's why I no longer listen to anything she says.

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rotten_avocado

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#230  Edited By rotten_avocado

@rotten_avocado said:

@mellotronrules said:

@rotten_avocado said:

If you're gonna put yourself on the cross, put yourself on the cross.

Especially if no one asked you to do it.

right- because it's constructive to say "she was asking for it" as opposed to focusing on the nefarious behavior.

Not that she's asking for it, but I do believe she should weather the storm for her beliefs..

You're suggesting that she deserves threats of physical and sexual violence and hateful slurs for expressing her thoughts?

Why should someone have to hear and see comments like that for speaking their mind-- it's not like she's espousing hate speech by saying that Princess Peach is a damsel in distress, and that perhaps women are poorly represented in video games.

Not at all. Just let people talk their bullshit. It's not like anything they're saying is gonna happen. It's a bunch of prepubescent boys or fat lonely undergrads. I just think if you open your mouth, like I have here for example, you should expect/accept a response, regardless of whether they are pleasant or not. She doesn't need to answer them. Should I be able to turn of the ability for you to respond to me?

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Sergio

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@rotten_avocado said:

@mellotronrules said:

@rotten_avocado said:

If you're gonna put yourself on the cross, put yourself on the cross.

Especially if no one asked you to do it.

right- because it's constructive to say "she was asking for it" as opposed to focusing on the nefarious behavior.

Not that she's asking for it, but I do believe she should weather the storm for her beliefs..

You're suggesting that she deserves threats of physical and sexual violence and hateful slurs for expressing her thoughts?

Why should someone have to hear and see comments like that for speaking their mind-- it's not like she's espousing hate speech by saying that Princess Peach is a damsel in distress, and that perhaps women are poorly represented in video games.

You are putting words in his mouth. He's not saying that she's asking for it or deserves it. Unfortunately, it's something she should probably expect given how crappy the internet and humans can be.

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rotten_avocado

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#232  Edited By rotten_avocado

@rotten_avocado said:

@mellotronrules said:

@rotten_avocado said:

If you're gonna put yourself on the cross, put yourself on the cross.

Especially if no one asked you to do it.

right- because it's constructive to say "she was asking for it" as opposed to focusing on the nefarious behavior.

Not that she's asking for it, but I do believe she should weather the storm for her beliefs..

and there are already people here, in these comments, that were insinuating she's the very 'damsel in distress' she's critiquing by drawing attention to the particularly vile contributions. it's a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't.

I agree. I for one, do not see her in that light. I don't despise her at all for what she has done. Just that she should woman-up and take the heat. I'm not saying she should read the tripe posted in the comments.

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@mikkaq said:

All of these videos and all of this discussion is fine and dandy but what are people honestly expected to do here? No one's proposed a real and practical solution to this supposed problem. Is this just a pointless academic exercise or will changes come from this discussion?

While I agree that it would be nice if a solution was presented, but I think it's just as important to point out in a measured fashion that there is sexism in video games. Change isn't going to happen right away but the fact that (some) people are actually discussing could be the impetus for change in the future.

I guess you could say, that at this point, rational discussion is sort of the point of the exercise.

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@mikkaq said:

All of these videos and all of this discussion is fine and dandy but what are people honestly expected to do here? No one's proposed a real and practical solution to this supposed problem. Is this just a pointless academic exercise or will changes come from this discussion?

I would say these discussions are important as long as they are polite and constructive in the sense of exploring and understanding the issue at hand. People come from all different walks of life and can provide insight to others as a result. Change starts slow, but happens surely enough. Even in a place such as this.

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#236  Edited By Jams

@milkman said:

To the people asking why she disabled comments, this is why she disabled comments.

That's it? OH THE HORROR!

Oh I see there are more. Yeah they can be pretty bad, but nothing you shouldn't be able to handle. If dumb ass actors and actresses can handle people sending them locks of hair then she should be able to handle idiots with some moderation.

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mellotronrules

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@jams said:

@mellotronrules said:

so you're all telling me that it's unreasonable to disable comments if you're receiving death threats and threats of sexual violence, as well as attempts to hack your online identity (twitter, etc).? or to draw attention to this fact? of course not all the negative comments will be of this nature, but you can be damn sure giant bomb would take action if threats were made against patrick of a similar nature.

you don't get to have it both ways. you can't say she's a coward for disabling comments, and then a damsel for leaving them on and drawing attention to the troglodytes that were attempting to intimidate her. besides- we're talking about youtube comments...the last great bastion for those who enjoy ethnic slurs, noting good boobshot timestamps, and beliebers. not exactly a paragon of fair and measured discourse.

I never said it was unreasonable to disable comments. But if you're trying to incite changes in society and giving yourself a voice, why would you stop everyone else for trying to speak their mind? What if they bring something to the discussion that can help your cause or debunk it completely? You can still disable the shitty comments as they come.

first of all- she isn't stopping anyone from starting their own kickstarter, their own youtube channel, their own academic treatise, whatever-means-of-academic-expression-you-like...she's shutting down youtube comments. it's not like that's the only venue for discussion, and if we're being honest, youtube comments have a reputation for being worthless. she could just moderate them- but again, i'm willing to wager no one would grant her the benefit of the doubt, and no one (pro or con) would be satisfied unless there was a totally impartial moderator, such as youtube itself. and youtube doesn't really moderate. so i'm not sure that's a realistic expectation.

@jams said:

How does disabling comments help prevent people from hacking your social profiles?

simple- it doesn't. but it can help curtail a pile-on, which isn't constructive once the initial sentiment is expressed.

@jams said:

Even when the women who are being sexuality love it and are happy with it, she blames sexism. I wouldn't doubt that if she had her way every woman would be wearing burka's and men would have their eye's and dicks removed from their bodies.

i'd just like you to read that bit over once more.

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#238  Edited By jadegl

@jams said:

@milkman said:

To the people asking why she disabled comments, this is why she disabled comments.

N4G:

2pacalypsenow:

Dumb feminists.

women like men to be protective of them its normal and not sexists,And its not a bad thing Men and women are 2 different things stop trying to be treated equal!

Funny when a man is tortured and dismembered everyone is ok but if that happens to a woman all hell breaks loose, Women just want to be treated equal when it benefits them.

Men will always be the stronger Dominant one. And that will never change,That's why when watching a scary movie the girl curls up to the guy not the other way around

yeahokchief:

I feel sorry for the guy who gets stuck with this one day. She's probably going to die alone.

She doesn't even know what she's talking about. She says Peach was only a playable character in Mario Bros 2. WRONG. She was a playable character in Super Mario RPG, EVERY SINGLE Mario Kart, Mario Party and Super Smash Bros.

ShaunCameron:

I hate the white knights and nice guys that defend them to death even more. After all if it wasn't for them, feminism would have fell flat on its face.

The irony of feminism is that for all the talk of liberation and empowerment, it's dependent on men to make such things a possibility let alone enforce it. Plus, the only thing feminism done is make it easier for women to get rewarded for doing nothing besides merely being born with TA&V and just existing, living vicariously through men's labor and accomplishments. And this Anita chick is exhibit A.

SageHonor:

I hate feminist

That's it? OH THE HORROR!

PreyaticIntent:

At least the chick is hot.

Cosmic_F:

She has a purdy mouth.

Bling Pringles:

Women are basically big rape buckets. I say all women should be forced to be naked constantly, to better receive all the rapes they so rightly deserve.

RealWorld:

Fuck this stupid bitch purposefully trying to exploit everything as sexism just to make a career. No different than Sharpton or Jesse Jackson exploiting racism. Shit's pathetic.

Begaria:

Here is my super smart, factual contribution to the tropes of women in video games:

*ah hem*

...

I'd totally bang that chick in the video.

I can selectively quote too!!! Sorry, but you were leaving out some more vile stuff which I think is important if we're going to comment on why there may not be comments on her video.

PS - I know some people may be trying to be funny with the comments, I just don't find them particularly funny.

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#239  Edited By Sergio

@mellotronrules said:

and there are already people here, in these comments, that were insinuating she's the very 'damsel in distress' she's critiquing by drawing attention to the particularly vile contributions. it's a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't.

There's a difference. In that her pitch video where she didn't disable comments, she decided to emphasize the sexist comments, garnering more contributions. I saw it all over twitter and the internet. People saying they were contributing to her Kickstarter because she was being targeted. That made her a damsel in distress.

She has her funds now and any vile comments that aren't based on the actual content of her videos aren't going to gain her more funds. At most, they'll get more people to watch her video to see why she's being attacked. That could be either good for her, more views, or bad, people pointing out the flaws in her argument.

In all cases, she can ignore them. She could also either moderate or hire someone to moderate the comments.

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@jams: Do you really expect any kind of useful conversations to happen in those YouTube comments? Does it really matter that much that bigsniperheadshot69 can't leave a comment? If someone has an opinion on the video, there are plenty of places to express it and I'm sure they'll find somewhere else to express themselves. Any comments left on that YouTube page are going to be 100 times worse than that link I posted. Nothing of value has been lost.

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@jadegl said:

@rockyraccoon37 said:

@jadegl said:

@thomasnash: I remember vividly spending hours analyzing William Carlos William's poem "The Red Wheelbarrow" for a 20th Century Poetry class in college. We went around and around our table, and this was outside of class on our own time, until someone said "You know, maybe it IS just a red wheelbarrow."

However, that doesn't mean that things shouldn't be talked about critically and with an eye to analysis and interpretation. As video games grow as a medium, this will happen, much like what we do with literature, poetry, movies, television, and music. As a form of expression, games are very new as compared to the things I just listed, so it's not surprising that people are pushing back against critique and interpretation. Again, sometimes a red wheelbarrow maybe is just a red wheelbarrow! But that doesn't lessen the importance of the discussion, no matter where you fall on the spectrum.

On top of that, I am sure William Shakespeare would be shocked that we spend years of school time devoted to studying and deconstructing his plays with just about every form of critique and interpretation in our toolbox. They were just meant to be fun and entertainment for the audience of his time. I view video games much the same way. Maybe 300 years from now someone will be looking at Shadow of the Colossus, Journey, or Braid in much the same way people look at Macbeth, Julius Caesar, or King Lear.

Can we be best friends?

Absolutely! *Internet high five*

0/\0

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#242  Edited By rotten_avocado

@spaceinsomniac said:

I think these videos make some good critical points about her previous work, but I'm looking forward to watching this new series and judging it on its own. It's a serious subject, so I hope she does a better job with things this time.

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Topic should be over here. I've watched these before and my dude destroys her. STOP...GIVING...HER...ATTENTION.

that is very interesting.

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#243  Edited By toowalrus

I'm never sure how to respond to stuff like this (so usually I just don't.) On one hand, yeah, she's shown that the video game industry has a history of exploiting old shitty tropes, and in a lot of cases, just downright isn't that creative. On the other hand, I like Zelda games in spite of this, and I'm not sure what her point is. Am I not supposed to like some of these games because of the somewhat cliche story-telling? Or is she just trying to get the industry to change...

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@jams said:

Even when the women who are being sexuality love it and are happy with it, she blames sexism. I wouldn't doubt that if she had her way every woman would be wearing burka's and men would have their eye's and dicks removed from their bodies.

i'd just like you to read that bit over once more.

Yeah? Do me a favor and watch some videos from girlwriteswhat and get back me. Listen to someone who can actually bring a lot to the discussion with gender equality.

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@sergio said:

@mellotronrules said:

and there are already people here, in these comments, that were insinuating she's the very 'damsel in distress' she's critiquing by drawing attention to the particularly vile contributions. it's a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't.

There's a difference. In that her pitch video where she didn't disable comments, she decided to emphasize the sexist comments, garnering more contributions. I saw it all over twitter and the internet. People saying they were contributing to her Kickstarter because she was being targeted. That made her a damsel in distress.

She has her funds now and any vile comments that aren't based on the actual content of her videos aren't going to gain her more funds. At most, they'll get more people to watch her video to see why she's being attacked. That could be either good for her, more views, or bad, people pointing out the flaws in her argument.

or maybe she just shouldn't have to deal with incendiary hate-speech in the comments. again- if people have well-reasoned and considered responses, there's nothing stopping them from starting their own kickstarter, youtube channel, blog, etc.

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#246  Edited By mellotronrules

@jams said:

@mellotronrules said:
@jams said:

Even when the women who are being sexuality love it and are happy with it, she blames sexism. I wouldn't doubt that if she had her way every woman would be wearing burka's and men would have their eye's and dicks removed from their bodies.

i'd just like you to read that bit over once more.

Yeah? Do me a favor and watch some videos from girlwriteswhat and get back me. Listen to someone who can actually bring a lot to the discussion with gender equality.

i have. seen her on reddit too. she's got a sweet sticker on her fridge there for ncfm.org.

edit: just had a i thought! organize a KICKSTARTER for her!

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I'm never sure how to respond to stuff like this (so usually I just don't.) On one hand, yeah, she's shown that the video game industry has a history of exploiting old shitty tropes, and in a lot of cases, just downright isn't that creative. On the other hand, I like Zelda games in spite of this, and I'm not sure what her point is. Am I not supposed to like some of these games because of the somewhat cliche story-telling? Or is she just trying to get the industry to change...

I think it's okay to like things in spite of them being sort of dumb. The point seems to be to recognize that there are some dumb parts of things that are actually pretty cool and maybe that we could make cool things cooler if the future if we took a look back and cut out the dumb stuff.

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#248  Edited By High_Nunez

@extomar: @jasonr86: I think it undermines her position. I'm sure most of the comments on youtube would be abusive in nature, but it also silences those that might want to actually have some honest discourse. It's her right, of course, but it's hard to take her seriously when on the one hand she asks for strong female role models, but then on the other hand, hides behind a censorship wall.

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#249  Edited By Milkman

I'm never sure how to respond to stuff like this (so usually I just don't.) On one hand, yeah, she's shown that the video game industry has a history of exploiting old shitty tropes, and in a lot of cases, just downright isn't that creative. On the other hand, I like Zelda games in spite of this, and I'm not sure what her point is. Am I not supposed to like some of these games because of the somewhat cliche story-telling? Or is she just trying to get the industry to change...

Just because you like something (I like Zelda too) doesn't mean you shouldn't identify that it has faults. If you love something, you should want it to be as good as it can be. The best analogy I can equate this to is pro wrestling. I love pro wrestling but every week when I watch Monday Night Raw, I see at least one thing that offends my intelligence, my moral fiber or (more often than not) both at the same time. Yet I still watch it every week. Why? Because I love it and I want it to be better. I'm willing to get on the internet and write about how The Rock calling a 44 year old widow a "fat hooker bitch" is one of the worst things I've ever seen on television because I care enough to want it to be better.

The same can be said about video games. No one is saying it's wrong for you to love Zelda but if you love something, you should care enough about it to say "hey, this part kinda sucks." Hope that makes sense.

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This generation is terrible, everybody is so sensitive.