Video game piracy is not entirely evil

I owe piracy every video game related experience before 2003. And not even the free kind. In Russia Internet came into a usable state only 6 or so years ago and licensed content was limited and overpriced (especially considering the economy of early 2000s). Pirates brought here from china NES clones, chipped Sagas, Playstations and Dreamcasts. It was the only was to play console video games when companies themselves refused to release anything here. At some point Russian publishers went out of their way to reduce the prises of PC games here so it became a more viable option but I can't say it fixed everything this year though I have to say there is a change that is starting to grow. Steam has finally acknowledged that Russia uses a different pricing scale and now you can actually buy games through steam with all their great sales and conveniences. One problem with that is that some publishers made agreements with valve to pull their catalogs from steam so they could only be purchased in stores but the selection is still good enough. On top of that they even made an option to pay without a credit card or a paypal account. We have a myriad of electronic kiosks scattered across the city that can accept money for steam purchases. Hopefully this will lead to a future of more affordable games and a bigger online selection.

Yes, piracy can certainly damage a company. But I can never see it as theft if a person gets something that he wouldn't be able to get in the first place without taking away anything else. Perhaps in more economically advanced countries it's easier to blame people for it but when 30$ is enough to buy to weeks of food you won't think of wasting them on a single game. Oh and although PC games are becoming more affordable here, console games are just going up and up in price with no way of getting them cheaper. They range from 50 to 100$ here making buying consoles a luxury. I have no Idea how to fix that system but perhaps the next generation will be more focused on digital stores with ability to change prices according to the region.

@AhmadMetallic:

I get where you're coming from in a number of ways. I won't buy a PC game unless I know my computer can run it. Often, that is a real issue because I don't spend a ton of money on my computers. So, my hardware is always at least one generation old (gaming-wise). This means that I will likely not buy new, more demanding games on PC because I'm afraid I would be wasting my money. Though there are a lot of demos for PC games, there aren't enough demos for the more hardware intensive games (BF3 for example). Pirating these games, that are hardware intensive and have no demos, would be a way for me to know if my system can run a game.

However, this also sounds like one hell of a rationalization for a system (piracy) that is abused all of the time and is likely not used in the fashion you express in the OP. Not know if a game can run on a system, not knowing how the game plays before you buy it, etc. etc. are all valid concerns that Publishers need to address for their PC audiences. BUT, these issues do not make it ok to steal from Publishers and Developers.

@Little_Socrates said:

Two of your reasons are still just straight-up wrong. If you want to try a game and there's no proper way to do so, you email the developer and ask them to build a demo.

LOL!

@Little_Socrates said:

As for ease of use...I have a hard time arguing that the pirates aren't offering better service than some of the developers out there. However, the proper solution is to not play the games that implement DRM and moving files poorly, not to pirate them. Otherwise, you're just proving them right in the long run, and they'll stop making PC versions altogether. DRM doesn't work, but we'll never prove that to PC publishers by stealing their games.

Why? If you buy a game and it is broken, why would you not take the opportunity to play it just because of some misguided moral high ground?

@Little_Socrates said:

There is only one reason I will ever accept for "piracy"; the game has not been localized to your region and it would be prohibitively expensive or possibly even illegal to purchase a copy through the proper channels.

Ahh, I see, so its ok to do it when its serving your needs, good one.

@Little_Socrates said:

@sanchopanza said:

I wonder if the people being all moral in here get all up in arms when companies fuck them in the ass by releasing broken games, don't support them properly, embargo reviews till after release, put pressure on publications to 'deal' with negative reviewers etc.

That's how you get better games, brah. That is what you are supposed to do. If you're asking how many of these people get up in arms and then proceed to buy the next game from that company anyways...well, that's probably a much sadder number. I for one will not be buying games from EA or Capcom next year until they figure some shit out. It's so sad, 'cause EA was AWESOME in 2008, too.

A sad number indeed, but good luck trying to change the industry on your own, brah.

For the record I don't pirate, but I don't think its a case of black and white. At the end of the day its a matter of choice, some people will always be dirtbags and pirate everything.

@AhmadMetallic: I more or less agree with Sweep, you can't really justify piracy by those points.

1.Experimentation: There's plenty of youtube gameplay videos and let's plays out there so you shouldn't have to pirate a game to find out about the gameplay. And hell, if you buy something and you don't like it, tough shit. Just cause you're skeptical about the gameplay doesn't give you a right to pirate it. In fact, in your Dead Island example, you robbed the devs of a potential sale.

2.Performance: PC games come with system requirements for a reason. If a game is a shitty console port, that absolutely does not give you the right to pirate it. Pirating it is telling publishers and developers that you don't give a shit about them and you will steal if you don't get what you want. Why the hell would people make games for the PC when they know people will steal it?

3.Temporary Solution: It's nice that you actually bought it, but do you think most people do that? I have friends who pirated it and will definitely not be buying Skyrim since they already stole it. I bet most people do the same thing.

4.Ease of Use: Again, you've bought the game, but most people who steal it won't. It's OK to pirate a game because it's easier to use when you steal it? Fuck no. It's probably easier for me to steal a car then it is for me to buy one, but that doesn't mean jacking the car is a reasonable solution to owning a car.

5.Alternative Source: I believe it's legal to pirate a game after you bought it (I might be wrong) so that's completely fine.

Finally, spending thousands on a PC and games doesn't give you a free card to illegally torrent games.

DISCLAIMER: I have pirated games before but now I either buy all my shit or don't play at all.

@sanchopanza: I don't think it really has to do with moral high ground, but more buying the game and telling the devs you actually are willing to buy the game on the PC and support them. It's not a good sign of support to pirate a game.

@No0b0rAmA said:

@sanchopanza: I don't think it really has to do with moral high ground, but more buying the game and telling the devs you actually are willing to buy the game on the PC and support them. It's not a good sign of support to pirate a game.

Thats fine but then again, what if the game is crap? I'm not saying that give license to pirate, but publishers have been know to engage in some sordid activities to try to mask the quality of a game, why should that be acceptable? As others have said, some will use these as excuses to pirate, and I agree that those people are assholes, but if someone genuinely tries a game to make a purchase decision, I'm not going to run around calling that person a thief. I'm not arguing about how many people actually do that or whether it happens at all, just saying that as an argument in my view it is a valid point. Some people are being needlessly obtuce with their FBI WARNING!!!!! posts.

@sanchopanza said:

@No0b0rAmA said:

@sanchopanza: I don't think it really has to do with moral high ground, but more buying the game and telling the devs you actually are willing to buy the game on the PC and support them. It's not a good sign of support to pirate a game.

Thats fine but then again, what if the game is crap? I'm not saying that give license to pirate, but publishers have been know to engage in some sordid activities to try to mask the quality of a game, why should that be acceptable? As others have said, some will use these as excuses to pirate, and I agree that those people are assholes, but if someone genuinely tries a game to make a purchase decision, I'm not going to run around calling that person a thief. I'm not arguing about how many people actually do that or whether it happens at all, just saying that as an argument in my view it is a valid point. Some people are being needlessly obtuce with their FBI WARNING!!!!! posts.

I feel like a game being crap doesn't mean it's free. Sure it's terrible that a publisher would do that, but I think in that case people shouldn't even pirate or buy the game. Wait for a review to come out, and don't buy it on day one. I understand the reasoning behind what everyone is saying, but I'm kind of an asshole and I think that you either should buy it, or not have access to it at all.

@sanchopanza said:

@Little_Socrates said:

Two of your reasons are still just straight-up wrong. If you want to try a game and there's no proper way to do so, you email the developer and ask them to build a demo.

LOL!

@Little_Socrates said:

As for ease of use...I have a hard time arguing that the pirates aren't offering better service than some of the developers out there. However, the proper solution is to not play the games that implement DRM and moving files poorly, not to pirate them. Otherwise, you're just proving them right in the long run, and they'll stop making PC versions altogether. DRM doesn't work, but we'll never prove that to PC publishers by stealing their games.

1. Why? If you buy a game and it is broken, why would you not take the opportunity to play it just because of some misguided moral high ground?

@Little_Socrates said:

There is only one reason I will ever accept for "piracy"; the game has not been localized to your region and it would be prohibitively expensive or possibly even illegal to purchase a copy through the proper channels.

2. Ahh, I see, so its ok to do it when its serving your needs, good one.

@Little_Socrates said:

@sanchopanza said:

I wonder if the people being all moral in here get all up in arms when companies fuck them in the ass by releasing broken games, don't support them properly, embargo reviews till after release, put pressure on publications to 'deal' with negative reviewers etc.

That's how you get better games, brah. That is what you are supposed to do. If you're asking how many of these people get up in arms and then proceed to buy the next game from that company anyways...well, that's probably a much sadder number. I for one will not be buying games from EA or Capcom next year until they figure some shit out. It's so sad, 'cause EA was AWESOME in 2008, too.

3. A sad number indeed, but good luck trying to change the industry on your own, brah.

For the record I don't pirate, but I don't think its a case of black and white. At the end of the day its a matter of choice, some people will always be dirtbags and pirate everything.

1. Because I believe we can actually vote with our dollars, and the only way that's going to happen is if people actually start doing it. I don't think it's misguided, and no game is a "necessity", so shitty DRM or programming is a negative of the game. I also agree with the statement in the Extra Credits video I posted that if even a fraction of the people who would normally pirate a game instead wrote a letter to the developer or publisher saying they won't be playing their game because of DRM or a lack of a demo, it would be pretty meaningful, especially to smaller studios.

2. I've never actually participated in pirating an extraregional game. That said, a bunch of my friends have downloaded the old Fire Emblem games, Sengoku Rance, Fate/stay Night, and Shuffle!, and I can support that as they've never been localized and never will be.

3. Again, I don't think I can do anything alone, but I can at least do my part to not support those making problematic decisions. The only game I really feel a strong attachment to next year is BioShock Infinite, and 2K hasn't done anything nearly as problematic as those I mentioned before.

I know a lot of people who do way worse things than piracy for fun, so it's not like I hate pirates. I just don't like pirates who try to tell me it's not stealing or that it's okay. I will disagree that it's not black and white, but that's all right.

@No0b0rAmA said:

@sanchopanza said:

@No0b0rAmA said:

@sanchopanza: I don't think it really has to do with moral high ground, but more buying the game and telling the devs you actually are willing to buy the game on the PC and support them. It's not a good sign of support to pirate a game.

Thats fine but then again, what if the game is crap? I'm not saying that give license to pirate, but publishers have been know to engage in some sordid activities to try to mask the quality of a game, why should that be acceptable? As others have said, some will use these as excuses to pirate, and I agree that those people are assholes, but if someone genuinely tries a game to make a purchase decision, I'm not going to run around calling that person a thief. I'm not arguing about how many people actually do that or whether it happens at all, just saying that as an argument in my view it is a valid point. Some people are being needlessly obtuce with their FBI WARNING!!!!! posts.

I feel like a game being crap doesn't mean it's free.

That wasn't what I said. RE the rest of your post: You are entitle to your view, and I guess my actions are like your opinions as I don't pirate, but in my view some of these points are valid arguments. As I said before, I personally know people who have had to crack legally bought games just to get them to run, it had nothing to do with PC specs, I don't see how anyone in their right mind can call that person a 'thief'.

EDIT:

@Little_Socrates: Good points, though I thinks its very difficult to vote with your cash especially with the number of people who will just go out and buy anyway. Personally I do try to be positive by supporting services like GOG. I agree about the part about pirates using these as excuses, though I will say that on some occasions in my view its justified (like the above example I gave), it is a difficult subject to discuss though due to the illegal nature, and for every persone who uses a crack for a good reason there are dozens or more who use it to steal. Apologies if I came across as a bit of an ass, but you initial post seemed a little silly to me.

@sanchopanza said:

@No0b0rAmA said:

@sanchopanza: I don't think it really has to do with moral high ground, but more buying the game and telling the devs you actually are willing to buy the game on the PC and support them. It's not a good sign of support to pirate a game.

Thats fine but then again, what if the game is crap? I'm not saying that give license to pirate, but publishers have been know to engage in some sordid activities to try to mask the quality of a game, why should that be acceptable? As others have said, some will use these as excuses to pirate, and I agree that those people are assholes, but if someone genuinely tries a game to make a purchase decision, I'm not going to run around calling that person a thief. I'm not arguing about how many people actually do that or whether it happens at all, just saying that as an argument in my view it is a valid point. Some people are being needlessly obtuce with their FBI WARNING!!!!! posts.

If you're not savvy enough to do some research, read some reviews and watch some footage of the game and you end up buying something terrible, that falls squarely on YOU. That does not give you a justification to pirate a game.

Piracy is theft, plain and simple. Pirates steal the intellectual property of people who have BUSTED THEIR ARSES to make and ship a game. It's a slap in the face to the entire industry and those involved should feel disgusted at themselves (though I'm sure they don't)

I'm sorry I couldn't bring myself to read your post(Edit: Couldn't help myself and read it anyways), I'm sure(it did) it turned into some lengthy discourse, about, "trying(also "sharing")" a product out, but that's always been the excuse. I didn't buy that argument when I was 12 and I don't buy it now(still don't).

In my mind if you're a pirate that pays for things, then well you're basically half-scum(Just using Jeff's term here I don't actually think you're scum). Sort of like an actual pirate who takes over a ship, but only holds the captured crew for ransom, instead of murdering them or selling them to slavery.

Pirates who buy things are basically Privateers, as they will assign loyalty to games and companies they enjoy or find difficult to pirate from, and everything else is fair game to be, "tried(and "shared")".

Regardless just keep doing your do I don't care man, just don't make threads like this claiming to be some sort of, "smart" consumer. It's fine to sell us a bunch of bullshit and call it gold, but once you start believing it yourself, I can't really help you anymore.

Haha anyways I actually enjoyed your post, but yeah same old same old as far as the arguments go, all I can say is well "at least" you pay for some games =P.

i agree with you on some of those. i'm not too much of a pc gamer and with the bad ports it makes me not want to buy a lot of PC games. if i hear about a problem i say pirate it. i haven't pirated a game in a long time. 
 
i have oblivion that is on the disc. i feel a little special on that.

First let me begin by saying that I respect your opinion and you have some very well thought out reasons for why you believe piracy is OK. However there are usually good reasons for people doing just about anything they do or otherwise they wouldn't do them. First while you may use piracy to try out games I just really find it hard to believe more than 10% of people pirate games for that reason and that most only buy games if they can't pirate them. Second the I am stealing it so I can try it out only seems to make sense for things like games. I can see a car thief trying to explain to a cop that if he likes the way it drives he plans on buying next years model. Plus it is the fact that people pirate things online that this stupid bill they are trying to push through has a chance to pass and the funny thing is that if they pass it the only people that it will punish is the people that don't pirate or the people that aren't very good at it.

Buying Used games at GameStop is a form of Piracy,

yet.. no one ever talks about it.

Killing a puppy isn't entirely evil, I'm sure you're doing someone, somewhere a favor murdering that puppy in cold blood...

@MindChamber said:

Being Used games at GameStop is a form of Piracy,

yet.. no one ever talks about it.

I agree with you in theory, but it's a harder argument to make, because then you'd have to extend that to thinks like used books, am I pirating sales from Toyota buy selling my used car on Craigslist(In that regard I would be). Regardless I avoid buying used games, for the very reason you describe, but that's more of a, "I want to give more money directly to this developer I like", than some sort of concern over piracy.

@MindChamber said:

Being Used games at GameStop is a form of Piracy,

yet.. no one ever talks about it.

No one ever talks about it? What rock do you live under. BTW Being a used game at GameStop is a really funny thought when you think about it.

@AhmadMetallic said:

I didn't have any money from my last paycheck left in my account when Skyrim came out. What, should I have waited a few weeks and thus be a few weeks behind everyone else even though I know I'm gonna buy it? It's a fact, I'm buying Skyrim before the year ends, why torture myself and watch others play it for a couple of weeks and be behind on all the discussion threads and my the progress of all my Steam friends?

I came back from the bank this morning after FINALLY receiving my late paycheck, and I'm gonna buy the game tonight. It's just that I have 51 hours in the game, so while I will legitimately purchase this product, I won't be feeling like shit for being weeks behind on one of my most anticipated games this year. Behind on forums and threads. Behind on memes. Behind on videos. Behind when DLC comes out.

...what? Should you just wait? Yes, you should. While I disagree with the other points, I am willing to listen to the argument that, without a demo, piracy can be used to test a game on your system. If you can't afford it yet, you can't get it yet. Also, behind on memes? That's a joke, right?

Hahaha...Man...This thread is great.

You make some points that are true. The lack of PC demo's is obviously a big one in order to see firstly if the game will even run properly, and secondly to see if it's your cup of tea. Also invasive and intrusive DRM, like what Ubisoft has the ignorance to use, is another reason to avoid some titles legitimately. I CAN see your point. But I also feel that you're trying to justify something which is essentially theft. If I could use a very appropriate, but very shitty, analogy. Think about buying a car or a loaf of bread, two opposite ends of the spectrum. You wouldn't steal either one then go back and pay for it with the excuse, "Well I just wanted to test it out," and expect it to work. Stealing is stealing, regardless of if you intend to purchase the thing legitimately or not.

I don't care if people pirate shit. Whatever. Doesn't phase me in the slightest. But the whole noble pedestal that people try to set themselves up on bugs the shit out of me. You're still fucking stealing something, regardless of anything else. Period. And don't try to deny it, hide it, or mix words to justify it.

Hitler didnt think he was evil eather, just saying you could be cutting fingers off of babbies and feed them to orphans and I bet you would still sit there trying to justify it.

@AhmadMetallic said:

Temporary Solution

I didn't have any money from my last paycheck left in my account when Skyrim came out. What, should I have waited a few weeks and thus be a few weeks behind everyone else even though I know I'm gonna buy it? It's a fact, I'm buying Skyrim before the year ends, why torture myself and watch others play it for a couple of weeks and be behind on all the discussion threads and my the progress of all my Steam friends?

I came back from the bank this morning after FINALLY receiving my late paycheck, and I'm gonna buy the game tonight. It's just that I have 51 hours in the game, so while I will legitimately purchase this product, I won't be feeling like shit for being weeks behind on one of my most anticipated games this year. Behind on forums and threads. Behind on memes. Behind on videos. Behind when DLC comes out.

Why do you think you have the right to play a game before you can afford it? Serious question, not being facetious at all.

And yes I did just invoke Godwins law.

@Juno500 said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

Temporary Solution

I didn't have any money from my last paycheck left in my account when Skyrim came out. What, should I have waited a few weeks and thus be a few weeks behind everyone else even though I know I'm gonna buy it? It's a fact, I'm buying Skyrim before the year ends, why torture myself and watch others play it for a couple of weeks and be behind on all the discussion threads and my the progress of all my Steam friends?

I came back from the bank this morning after FINALLY receiving my late paycheck, and I'm gonna buy the game tonight. It's just that I have 51 hours in the game, so while I will legitimately purchase this product, I won't be feeling like shit for being weeks behind on one of my most anticipated games this year. Behind on forums and threads. Behind on memes. Behind on videos. Behind when DLC comes out.

Why do you think you have the right to play a game before you can afford it? Serious question.

Because he's 'entitled' to it, duh.

I'm still one of the five people that rents my games at a local Blockbuster. And continue to do so until if Blockbuster were to shut down. 
 
I don't know how to pirate games, and don't really care to know how. 
 

Considering how inconsistent the quality of games ported to the PC are, there NEEDS to be a way to see if the game works properly first (and also to see if it's any good). How is it fair to withhold this information from the customer and expect them to pay $60 without knowing these crucial details? Taking a customers money and leaving them with a broken/shitty product with little to no possibility for a return is stealing just as much as piracy is.

@AhmadMetallic: Great read and my views on this topic coincides with yours as well. Hope you don't get hit too hard by this community with the expected responses that will go against your view.

I certainly understand your points but I can't say I agree with all of them. For example, I really wanted to play Killlzone 3 when it was released, but I was neck deep in university work at the time and above all couldn't afford it at £40, so I waited until I saw it cheaper, then picked it up. It sucks, because I really do enjoy the MP and coming into the game 5 months later I didn't have a great time with it, but shit happens I guess.

I can't really relate to the PC problems though, I don't think there is any such thing as a casual PC gamer, but I think it's what best describes me, I built my PC with 3D modelling and rendering in mind, turns out because of that, it's equipped to run games very well too and I do enjoy the benefits of the hardware (better resolution, frame rate, save/load times etc) but I do agree with what you said about PC games. I'd love to see more demos on PC, being able to rent games on consoles eliminates that problem for that platform, maybe Steam will introduce a rental system at some point because that would be great.

@The_LMFAO_Guy said:

I don't know how to pirate games, and don't really care to know how.

Surprised it took this many posts to see this as well, I'm the same, I have an idea how it's done on PC but I wouldn't even know where to start on a console, I feel I'm one of the few that still buy the majority of my PC games on disk, I just like having a box on my shelf and seeing my collection get bigger.

I hope this thread fulfilled your objective and you feel better about your acts of piracy. As a bonus you get to feel superior to those who have no intention of ever paying for games.

You're getting a lot of hate over your thoughts on this but you know what? Fuck 'em. I think your points are valid, especially for me since I don't really have the funds to blindly buy every new game that comes out without knowing if it's good or not.

Dude, piracy is fine. Like totally. Go right ahead. Pirate EVERYTHING!

@AhmadMetallic said:

I didn't have any money from my last paycheck left in my account when Skyrim came out. What, should I have waited a few weeks and thus be a few weeks behind everyone else even though I know I'm gonna buy it? It's a fact, I'm buying Skyrim before the year ends, why torture myself and watch others play it for a couple of weeks and be behind on all the discussion threads and my the progress of all my Steam friends?

I came back from the bank this morning after FINALLY receiving my late paycheck, and I'm gonna buy the game tonight. It's just that I have 51 hours in the game, so while I will legitimately purchase this product, I won't be feeling like shit for being weeks behind on one of my most anticipated games this year. Behind on forums and threads. Behind on memes. Behind on videos. Behind when DLC comes out.

...what? Should you just wait? Yes, you should. While I disagree with the other points, I am willing to listen to the argument that, without a demo, piracy can be used to test a game on your system. If you can't afford it yet, you can't get it yet. Also, behind on memes? That's a joke, right?

1.Experimentation: There's plenty of youtube gameplay videos and let's plays out there so you shouldn't have to pirate a game to find out about the gameplay. 

And hell, if you buy something and you don't like it, tough shit. Just cause you're skeptical about the gameplay doesn't give you a right to pirate it. In fact, in your Dead Island example, you robbed the devs of a potential sale.

2.Performance: PC games come with system requirements for a reason. If a game is a shitty console port, that absolutely does not give you the right to pirate it. Pirating it is telling publishers and developers that you don't give a shit about them and you will steal if you don't get what you want. Why the hell would people make games for the PC when they know people will steal it?

3.Temporary Solution: It's nice that you actually bought it, but do you think most people do that? I have friends who pirated it and will definitely not be buying Skyrim since they already stole it. I bet most people do the same thing.

4.Ease of Use: Again, you've bought the game, but most people who steal it won't. It's OK to pirate a game because it's easier to use when you steal it? Fuck no. It's probably easier for me to steal a car then it is for me to buy one, but that doesn't mean jacking the car is a reasonable solution to owning a car.

@Deathpooky: I dunno why I didn't get a notification for this, or which post you read of mine, but not once did I say I support the idea of piracy, for any means. All I have been saying is at this current moment of time, when 1 or 2 PC games a month have demos (usually the smaller games) the only way one can be truly sure if they will enjoy the game is to download it and see. I'm not saying I think this is good practice, I'm not saying I do it, I am just saying, for those on a limited budget, it is the only way to be sure.

I for one have plenty of cash for games, and find out as much objective information about games before I buy them as I can, but no everyone does, and this is what people forget.

And you can't say a single thing about people not deserving to play the game if they don't pay the developers for it (even if they pay when they know they'll enjoy it), when the people who buy used aren't paying a single penny to the developer either, and definitely won't buy the game new after.

@sopranosfan: lol buying*

as for rocks living, no one mentioned it here

@AhmadMetallic said:

In theory, in principle, in a respectable discussion where we pretend to be noble gentlemen who never break any rules or take advantage of things/people (and we sure as shit do IRL), yes, this is called "entitlement" and nothing gives me the right, and I'm supposed to wait two weeks like a "decent human being." I agree, fine chaps. But in reality, in real life, when a game is this huge and will conquer the internet with its stories and videos and memes and all that endlessly, and you know for a fact that you're waiting for a paycheck to buy it, and that you're gonna play it for hundreds of hours, and you HAVE THE ABILITY to remedy the few-week gap with a pirated version, seriously, you wouldn't wait just to feel morally OK. Had I waited, the only thing that would've changed is that I would be behind everybody on everything Skyrim related, while I JUST gave Bethesda the same money I would've given them last month. You know what? Call me entitled. Yes, I am entitled to bridge that temporary gap in order to enjoy myself. It's really ridiculous to start believing in these pseudo internet morals when in real life we double park and steal and bully and ruin things, enough with the anonymous act of righteousness, hell I'm willing to bet money that at least one of you three duders pirates shit and never mentions it. Otherwise the world would be all peaceful and "right", and we know damn well it isn't.

I think the point we're all making is, no, you're not entitled. You have a selfish sense of entitlement. The two are very different. People who make games are entitled to sell or distribute them however they want. They put millions of dollars and tens of thousands of hours from hundreds of people, probably working to the bone from what we know of the industry. You are never entitled to play them unless you buy it through some legal way.

Want to play a game day one? You pay full price for it, even though it likely will drop in price rather soon. That's where the devs/publishers make their money, get publicity for their games, make DLC/staffing decisions, and distributors figure out how much more to buy - through week one sales and preorders. And whining about being behind your friends in game playing time or in Internet memes is perhaps the worst justification I've ever heard for pirating. It's called delayed gratification and budgeting, two keys to being an actual adult. If you can't either a) budget so you could by Skryim day one or b) wait to play it for a few weeks until you get the money, then you've got bigger problems.

And nice new defense of "I'm sure everyone's doing it" and "we're all bad people so I'm not so bad." Two other classic, bad self-justifications for something you know to be wrong. Which seems to be the entire point of this thread, attempting to justify to yourself or get justification from other people for something you feel guilty about.

 You know what? Call me entitled. Yes, I am entitled to bridge that temporary gap in order to enjoy myself. 

@AhmadMetallic: I am with Jeff on this one. You are scum.

I dont know that I would be here on this forum right now if it weren't for piracy. When I was younger I had no money for games, and all I had were some roms of square snes rpgs like chrono trigger, ff6, ff5, ff4 etc... Square has gotten a lot of money out of me since then, and that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't pirated their games and got into gaming because of it.

I remember when you bitched at me implied I owed you $48 because you hated how a patched legitimate Battlefield 2 felt after I convinced you to actually buy a copy and try the non pirated version for the first time last year.

It's not necessarily "evil", as "evil" is an entirely subjective term, but it is most definitely stealing no matter which way you look at it.

Would you steal a car to "try it out" for a few weeks? 
 
There's no fucking way to justify piracy. Like Jeff said, no matter how you spin it, at the end of the day you're still a scumbag for pirating a game. It's better to admit it than trying to justify it with excuses.

@AhmadMetallic: I've pretty much bowed out of this discussion.  Mainly because I definitely respect you

So, I have a question, what about games that are not released in your language or in your country but are translated and released via fan-translators?

I mean, everyone who is playing/has played Mother 3 in English is playing/has played a pirated game, period. Even if you own the game, the game is pirated, simply because it's not a dump of the game you own. In my own opinion, I believe that everyone should play this game, even if it's a pirated version, because Nintendo doesn't have a single iota of intrest to release it.

If you can agree that this is an acceptable reason to pirate a game, then you also have to admit there is some gray area to piracy.

This post will be ignored because it has truuuuuth!

Fucking scum

you know what's fun? watching a dog chase its tail

I 100% agree with OP.

Demos

Piracy has become the new way to try out games. If publishers refuse to release demos then how am I suppose to know whether the game is good or not ? will it run on my computer ? On the 360 every XBLA game has a trial of some sort, I don't see any legit reason for why publishers can't just throw away a demo into the internet.

Torrents

Someone in this thread said something about torrents "while you are downloading you are also uploading the game to other assholes". The internet has evolved, its not 2001 anymore and if you use torrents to pirate your game then you are doing it wrong.

But Liber, not every pirate will buy the game after he played it

Used game purchases hurt the developers even more than piracy. If someone pirates a game and likes it, there is a chance that he will buy a legit copy and the developers will get their cut, but if someone goes to Gamestop and buys a used copy and finishes the game , he won't come back to Gamestop and buy a new copy of that game, that means all cash goes to Gamestop and none goes to the developer.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. So much judgment going around. Can't you people just...i don't know...not give a shit? Works for me.

Nice write up. I fully read your post, although I will admit I have just skimmed through the comments.

I think one thing that you need to realize is that each of your arguments boils down to what would be known as the "over breadth" argument. You are basically saying, I can see the need for such a rule (stop the serial offenders, in your example) but in my case it is actually preventing what could be seen as a legitimate use (demoing and testing for later purchase). You may be correct, but one thing that you have failed to consider is that this is how it actually works.

I am sure you have not been visited by the FBI or FTC recently (assuming USA). However, I bet the people hosting your torrent may have. Yes, your use is illegal, but you don't see prosecution of your use. It is sort of like speed limits. Sure, we all understand why we need them (stop maniacs from driving 90 mph in their pick up trucks) but in my case, it is actually preventing what could be seen as a legitimate action (I am late to a very important appointment and only going 5 mph over the limit). Even though you are breaking the law, most police officers will not pull you over, they go after the drunk drivers and the excessive speeders.

This analogy helps highlight the flaw in the argument. Rules are great, but I swear it is acceptable for me to break them, because I promise I am responsible about it. That may be true, but you also must consider who you might be (in your case quiet literally) infringing on. Sure, its fine to download Battlefield 2, its a huge studio that sells millions, your one copy may never matter. Great, but do you think any of the investors, principals, or employees feel the same way? Maybe to them, your copy is a little more important. Sort of like speeding. Sure, most of the time it is fine, but what do you tell the friends and family of the person you kill or maim when you are speeding? Guys, it is fine, I am very responsible about it and I had a good reason.

The initial post highlights another great flaw in this argument. Minecraft is the one game that should never be pirated. Why? Minecraft actually is almost certainly the most profitable game in your post, in reality, possibly ever. If there ever was someone who could afford your personal pirating, its Mojang, Notch, and the whole Minecraft empire. So there must be another reason. Perhaps it is because Minecraft is "an indie darling," because Notch is transparent, because it is a small development team, because they listen to fan feedback, or simply because it is your personal favorite game. Here we seen the flaw, however. It could be any reason that you decide. Saying pirating is acceptable because Call of Duty is made by Activision, but Portal 2 is not because it is made by Valve, is simply based on personal preferences. I believe Minecraft IS piratable, because Notch brags on Twitter about his enormous income, and forgets that his fortune was earned through the advertising of others. My friend believes it is only 20% acceptable to pirate, because he uses a formula that assigns points to each letter in the game's title. Each of us is only one person, and we all believe we are equally correct, but really, does that mean Mojang doesn't deserve to be paid for making something that we are using?

And finally, another underlying theme of your post is that you pirate to demo or test games on your system. Not stated, but implied (correctly, in my opinion!) is that this downfall lies with the game developers. If consumers cannot test your game without making a rather large investment, they will stay away entirely. The ability to pirate to decide if you like it actually breeds later sales. So, naturally, this could be solved with demos or benchmarks, that would allow consumers to do so, without resorting to pirating.

While this may be true, the fundamental fact is that the game belongs to the developer. If they want to release a demo, they can. If they don't, that doesn't give you the right to make one. Think about it. Your initial post is very good. But honestly, I could add some facts to it, clean up the presentation, and sell it to a gaming blog. Should I get that money? To me, it seems like you should have done this in the beginning, it is how the post should have been written, and made it useful to me, the consumer. But are you really going to feel good about doing the hard work, and then me stealing it and profiting? If so, please contact me so we can begin this arrangement immediately.

I think I should be able to download copyrighted songs without paying for them, because all of my friends consider me an authority on music and will buy the ones I recommend. Sure, that sounds great, but if a copyright owner really thought I was such a great referral source, wouldn't they have already contacted me and given them to me for free? And this already happens under (my familiarity is only with American law) current intellectual property law schemes. Honestly, Activision could probably shut down all YouTube Call of Duty commentaries, instead they invite the Machinima folks to film the new games. They have decided it is worth it to allow this infringement. But if the studio behind the Witcher didn't provide you with a free download link, they probably didn't want you to steal their product to demo it.

Some well stated ideas in your post, but I feel they miss the underlying issues.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. So much judgment going around. Can't you people just...i don't know...not give a shit? Works for me.