#1 Edited by indiarubber (21 posts) -

not for authenticity, just cause it looks better than a weapon arced across the back and jutting above the shoulder.

i liked the way the last of us attempted to correct this, and by extension the way tomb raider did it in '96 (shotgun next to, fastened to backpack), but it kinda breaks down with larger weapons. in that case i guess the solution is easier - no giant weapons sprawled across a character's person - but even then i think slings work better. your weapon hangs by your hip and looks cool while never really getting in the way.

you might think a sling means extra animation means possible physics simulation means extra work for designers and animators, but you can easily cheat it too, and without losing the look or feel. take ground zeroes/the phantom pain: i don't think big boss even has a sling. his weapon's just hanging there at his hip, about as attached as any back slung weapon in gears, lightly jostling with his movements. whether that'll change for the final release is anyone's guess, but it doesn't really have to because it looks good without much in the way of extra work or processing. and you can solve the problem of believability if you really need to by going with a modeled but tightly worn sling that only sort of rustles with movement. doesn't need any costly cloth simulation to look right.

i realize it's a personal thing, bordering on obsessive, but that the standard as it is now remains pretty awkward and i think many would agree. messes with a character's silhouette. i'd like to see that change. (always preferred sword and sheath at the hip, too)

edit: i guess a modeled sling would entail some extra animation unless you just want players to imagine your protagonist is clipping/unclipping his weapon each time, which is kinda how i imagine mgs5. but even then it doesn't require a bunch of fancy rigging or simulation if you're doing some three-point sling kinda thing. mgs2 even did as much in 2001 for its enemy soldiers, with minimal simulation.

#2 Edited by alwaysbebombing (1833 posts) -

...Why?

#3 Edited by indiarubber (21 posts) -

i mean it doesn't matter. it's not gonna change the quality of a game. it'd simply be a nice change of aesthetics

#4 Edited by Ezekiel (691 posts) -

I agree. In sword fighting games too. I hate seeing the sword or sheath glued to the character's back or hip.

#5 Edited by SgtSphynx (1776 posts) -

Are you talking about one-point or three-point slings? Because I think some military shooters do use the three-point slings.

For reference:

One-Point Sling
Three-Point Sling

From personal experience, one-point slings aren't very comfortable unless you have a hand on the weapon (which you always should, but sometimes you cannot,) were as the three-point slings if you slide the weapon to your back, it will usually stay there and not get in the way. It all really boils down to the personal preference of the user, but when it comes to video games I guess that doesn't really matter.

#6 Edited by indiarubber (21 posts) -

essentially a three point sling with the weapon itself slung more to the flank than all the way up on the back or front

or just something like mgs5, where the weapon more or less looks like it's clipped to the side of a harness, even if that isn't practical in the real world (i have no idea)

#7 Posted by crithon (3518 posts) -

well, it's better then floating in the back. Swords are not even in Sheaths majority of the time. Metal Gear Rising has an actual metal arm for Raiden to connect his body to his always sharpening cyber sheath. It seems crazy that's one of the few games that pays attention to that little detail.

#8 Edited by SharkEthic (1084 posts) -
@alwaysbebombing said:

...Why?

@indiarubber said:

not for authenticity, just cause it looks better than a weapon arced across the back and jutting above the shoulder.

It's literally the first sentence of the post.

#9 Posted by Chemystery (310 posts) -

But what about swords!? At the hip or on the back? Or sideways right above the butt.

#10 Posted by Glottery (1497 posts) -

Now if you don't mind me ignoring the topic of this thread completely, while trying not to be offensive, does someone really think it works like this? You just name a thread "We oughta do this and that" something something and then a bunch of developers will pick up on your idea and use it in their games from now on? Or I mean, I guess developers get their ideas from somewhere, but probably not from browsing Giant Bomb forums...or maybe they do, I don't know! My point being, did you just name the thread like that for no particular reason, so to speak, or are you a crazy person?

#11 Edited by indiarubber (21 posts) -

i mean trends happen, but i've got no illusions about my role in starting them. "we oughta" is just a gentle, abstract play to the hope that someone might. and something i had to get off my chest somewhere, for the sake of discussion, even if it disappears into the ether never to be taken seriously

#12 Edited by GreggD (4582 posts) -

Wow, you guys are nitpicky as hell in here. Jesus, I didn't know we were trying to come up with a police sketch. Oh, and I believe that Battlefield uses proper holsters for the handguns these days, if I'm not mistaken. But yeah, every other piece of gear, including the main gun is often just magnetized to the back. I really hope that changes this generation, as it always bugged me in Call of Duty and Guitar Hero/Rock Band. FLOATING GUITARS!!! So very, very strange. I mean yeah, you get over it, after a while but it's a little jarring.

#13 Posted by jArmAhead (354 posts) -

Yeah, I think weapon retention in general is pretty poorly displayed in games. It's pretty lazy, and hopefully with easier simulation and more room for extra details like that we'll see things like hip holsters with your actual sidearm carried in it (and with a proper animation to actually draw the weapon from the holster, not just with a random wave of the character's arms) and long guns having a sling if they aren't going to be carried constantly. Sword sheaths need to be a thing too.
To be fair, even ArmA doesn't do that stuff.

For me, it totally is about authenticity. It's a bit of extra animation, not like every weapon needs it's own animation. At most some tweaking based on the size of the weapon.

I'm pretty sick of floating/disappearing weapons but I'm not sure we'll ever see that stuff go away.

#14 Edited by Sammo21 (4110 posts) -

Screw that I wanna see more messenger bags!


#15 Posted by xinek (5 posts) -

It bugs me that in BF4, when you're using a grip for your weapon, it doesn't show it. Next gen, indeed.

#16 Posted by GERALTITUDE (4197 posts) -

I feel the same way TC, all the way.

#17 Edited by w1n5t0n (177 posts) -

@glottery said:

Now if you don't mind me ignoring the topic of this thread completely, while trying not to be offensive, does someone really think it works like this? You just name a thread "We oughta do this and that" something something and then a bunch of developers will pick up on your idea and use it in their games from now on? Or I mean, I guess developers get their ideas from somewhere, but probably not from browsing Giant Bomb forums...or maybe they do, I don't know! My point being, did you just name the thread like that for no particular reason, so to speak, or are you a crazy person?

Considering everyone in this thread is having a civil discussion on the topic because they thinks it's interesting and you implied the OP might be crazy based on a title. I think you could be crazy.

#18 Edited by AMyggen (4455 posts) -

@glottery: You know, you should probably not take the title of this thread that literally. It's just a way to start a discussion.

#19 Posted by slyspider (1513 posts) -

I support this. As someone who handles weapons extremely often, the amount of blatant safety rules ignored by games irks me a bit. I'm not asking for total realism, but TAKE YOUR FUCKING FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER. I've seen too many accidents cause by shit like that

#20 Posted by SgtSphynx (1776 posts) -

The only game(s) that I can think of that did weapon retention right were the Mass Effect games. Yeah, were attached to Shepard's back, but there was an in universe reason for it, and depending on the armor, you could see where they attached.

#21 Posted by Gnorbooth (292 posts) -

I agree with all of this. More holsters, more sheaths/scabbards, less weapons floating magically off of your back or hip. Especially in third person games. It's a small detail for sure, but one that at least to me, adds a lot to a game. One of my favorite things to do in Fallout for example, is find some type of a holster mod so handguns aren't floating off of my hip. Just sells the look of a character so much more, especially in games that want to go for that "realism" or "authenticity" or "gritty" or whatever hardcore adjective they want to throw around.

And for the love of christ, can we get some proper sheaths/scabbards in our fantasy games, cause holy shit. How many MMO's, RPG's, third person action games does one need to play to find a game that wants to take the time to model these things? I like how The Witcher handled it, and would love to see more devs put more reliance on how to properly holster/sheath these damn things, then this mighty two handed sword that shoots fire out of its ass while just hanging naked on my back. I have obviously thought too much about this, but dammit, I want more holsters!

#22 Posted by GreggD (4582 posts) -

@xinek said:

It bugs me that in BF4, when you're using a grip for your weapon, it doesn't show it. Next gen, indeed.

Huh? When you equip any grip in that game, it is absolutely shown. What are you talking about?

#23 Posted by 49th (3018 posts) -

Robot gun arms?

#24 Posted by Shortbreadtom (930 posts) -

@49th: You mean like Raiden's sheath in Revengeance?

#25 Edited by 49th (3018 posts) -
#26 Posted by Glottery (1497 posts) -

@amyggen said:

@glottery: You know, you should probably not take the title of this thread that literally. It's just a way to start a discussion.

Hence why I did mention that opinion in my (very messy) post! But 'ts my bad, I've just seen too many "DEVELOPER LOOK AT THIS IDEA PLZ" threads on other various forums that my first assumption usually tends to be that nowadays.

Anyway, I quite liked how Max Payne had all his weapons strapped to him in the third game, iirc. The Last of Us was a pretty good too, like mentioned by the OP.