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#1 Posted by bobbyjrjr (5 posts) -

Sony seems to be getting a lot of praise : "Microsoft-killer", "gamers aware". "How can Microsoft survive ?????"

Price : point Sony (for now). Online requirement : point Sony. Indie developers : point Sony (i think).

But ! I don't agree on the rest of the controversy.

I don't really think the used game policy is a real issue. People were worried about used game on PC when digital versions appeared (i actually don't remember). But it is not a problem now, because there are sales every day and if you wait 3 months you can have a game for half the price. If Microsoft plays its cards right and allow Steam-like sales, it's no longer an issue. If...

You've seen this video right ? Pretty funny.

But now Shuhei Yoshida can't play his game. On Xbox One, you can potentially share your whole library with ten guys, still play your games and you have potentially ten totally different libraries to go through.

Few notes : i don't have a PS3 (nor a Xbox 360) so maybe sharing digital version of game is already not an issue on Sony's side but i'd love to hear their words on it. And Xbox One policies aren't that clear.

Any thoughts on that ? Do you have more information about sharing digital versions on PS ?

#2 Posted by Marcsman (3094 posts) -

: i don't have a PS3 (nor a Xbox 360) This was the comment that killed your whole argument for me.

#3 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

no you have not. It is not that you can play the same game while another plays the same copy.

#4 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7040 posts) -

You cannot play a game while one of your 10 family members is playing it on Xbox One.

Online
#5 Posted by TheMasterDS (2009 posts) -

@darji: Actually is it exactly that from the sounds of it. The limitation is one guest at a time, not whether the guest is playing a game you also happen to be playing.

I also think it's worth seriously considering the value of switching from one game to another instantly (with matchmaking running in the background) and having an end to switching discs.

I'm buying both consoles and I have to say I think it's hard to guess which one will be my primary.

#6 Edited by joshwent (2056 posts) -

If Microsoft plays its cards right and allow Steam-like sales...

IF Microsoft drops the XOne price to $9.99 and throws in a free Master Chief body pillow...

#7 Posted by jimmyfenix (3816 posts) -

Sony seems to be getting a lot of praise : "Microsoft-killer", "gamers aware". "How can Microsoft survive ?????"

Price : point Sony (for now). Online requirement : point Sony. Indie developers : point Sony (i think).

But ! I don't agree on the rest of the controversy.

I don't really think the used game policy is a real issue. People were worried about used game on PC when digital versions appeared (i actually don't remember). But it is not a problem now, because there are sales every day and if you wait 3 months you can have a game for half the price. If Microsoft plays its cards right and allow Steam-like sales, it's no longer an issue. If...

You've seen this video right ? Pretty funny.

But now Shuhei Yoshida can't play his game. On Xbox One, you can potentially share your whole library with ten guys, still play your games and you have potentially ten totally different libraries to go through.

Few notes : i don't have a PS3 (nor a Xbox 360) so maybe sharing digital version of game is already not an issue on Sony's side but i'd love to hear their words on it. And Xbox One policies aren't that clear.

Any thoughts on that ? Do you have more information about sharing digital versions on PS ?

I think you should read there policies again

#8 Posted by GnomeonFire (694 posts) -

Only time can tell who made the right decisions.

#9 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@darji: Actually is it exactly that from the sounds of it. The limitation is one guest at a time, not whether the guest is playing a game you also happen to be playing.

I also think it's worth seriously considering the value of switching from one game to another instantly (with matchmaking running in the background) and having an end to switching discs.

I'm buying both consoles and I have to say I think it's hard to guess which one will be my primary.

Thats what i understood as well. That you and one other person can play the same game.

#10 Edited by Excast (794 posts) -

Being able to walk up to a Redbox and rent a game is a selling point. I like being able to beat a game like Bioshock Infinite for $4 instead of dropping more than $50 on a 12 hour experience. Microsoft has already confirmed no renting or lending at launch.

#11 Posted by Death_Unicorn (2838 posts) -

They are letting you share digital copies of games which is pretty badass.

#12 Edited by JZ (2125 posts) -

Adam can also give it back to Shuhei, you can not do that on the xbone.

#13 Posted by zombie2011 (4968 posts) -

The thing that bothers me and is going to drive me nuts this gen is when new IP's fail and people blame it on publishers for not doubling down. Used games are a huge reason why games fail! The only people receiving money from used games is the store selling it, so when you only see annualized sequels this gen don't blame it on MS they tried.

#14 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@jz said:

Adam can also give it back to Shuhei, you can not do that on the xbone.

But..he didnt.

We need a full movie trilogy. "Quest for Game return"

#15 Posted by redbliss (647 posts) -

Sony did all the right things, but I personally think it is too good to be true. I dont know where people have been getting this information, but I have heard that Sony is going to have 3 SKUs (the lowest being at $399 and the highest being at $599) The real question is going to be whether the $399 SKU is going to be worth it. I dont really know what is going to be a good amount of storage when you consider a lot of games are going to be digital and all, but I would say anything less than 20gb would probably only be good for about a year.

As for the used game policy, I get the feeling this issue is not over. Maybe Sony has no plans for controlling used games, but I dont really believe that. Maybe I have just been visiting giantbomb too much, but it seems like a bad move to give publishers the finger and continue to allow used games as they are now. Sony is just going to say what people want them to say as long as the spotlight is on them, and I think they will release some statement later this year as to what they are doing.

I could be completely off on all of this and Sony is only going to have one SKU with 100gb or something and they are going to let used games go, but the cynic in me is skeptical.

#16 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -
#17 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@jz said:

@the_laughing_man: Shuhei never let go of the game either.

So...what your saying is...its a Comedy where they are both Super glued to the both and can not go under 55 miles per hour or it will explode?

#18 Posted by leftie68 (215 posts) -

How is it that people are still confused about Xbox One's used game policies?! NO, you cannot potentially share your library with ten other friends. No, you do not have just any ten library of games you can choose from. The libraries are LOCKED to a system. If you registered your account to THAT system, your library is locked to that system. Other accounts LOCKED to that SAME system (lets say from family members living in the same house) can access your library (and vice versa). Now you can access you account from another system, but the online authenticity will be every hour to make sure that ACCOUNT isn't being used by it's main system, or any other system. This prevents "sharing your library anytime you like with your "bros"".

#19 Posted by RVonE (4601 posts) -

@joshwent said:

If Microsoft plays its cards right and allow Steam-like sales...

IF Microsoft drops the XOne price to $9.99 and throws in a free Master Chief body pillow...

OMG YES!

@jz said:

Adam can also give it back to Shuhei, you can not do that on the xbone.

But..he didnt.

We need a full movie trilogy. "Quest for Game return"

You should probably tweet that at Adam; he seems like a guy who would seriously explore making such a video happen.

In all seriousness, what's far more important to me than all the details of this stuff is the attitude of the messaging. Microsoft's straight-faced, on-message, matter-of-fact mode of delivery makes them appear very disconnected and aloof. Sony--even when the details might not turn out as great as promised--has found a particular voice that seems reflexive and responsive (which might be a first for Sony) which is part of any good practice of branding. Their brand, or so it seems to me, is the more relatable and likable. All manner of what-if-scenarios aren't going to change that, only Microsoft's (and Sony's, for that matter) actions can.

Online
#20 Posted by RonGalaxy (2847 posts) -

Used games dont matter. What matters is the gesture; sony cares about our business, and MS wants complete ownership.

Fucking over disc based games so quickly is the wrong way to go, you have to make a compelling case for why digital games are better.

Once that happens, consumers wont care when the NEXT next generation removes physical media, because they will have naturally shifted to buying digital over disc. Or maybe thatll never happen. Its still up to these companies to keep their customers happy, and not attempting to decide what we want.

#21 Edited by joshwent (2056 posts) -

The thing that bothers me and is going to drive me nuts this gen is when new IP's fail and people blame it on publishers for not doubling down. Used games are a huge reason why games fail! The only people receiving money from used games is the store selling it, so when you only see annualized sequels this gen don't blame it on MS they tried.

Used games are a fact of the industry and have been since the very first consoles came out. Publishers have accountants that can do the math and set their budget with used sales and all of the other factors in mind. If the budget is too high to pull a profit, they simply spent too much making the game. If they can't deal with reality, it's just their fault.

#22 Posted by CommanderGermanShepard (303 posts) -

You've seen this video right ? Pretty funny.

But now Shuhei Yoshida can't play his game. On Xbox One, you can potentially share your whole library with ten guys, still play your games and you have potentially ten totally different libraries to go through.

Where are you getting this information?

#23 Edited by JZ (2125 posts) -

@zombie2011: your thinking is flawed. To get used games people have to buy it normally first.

#24 Posted by killacam (1284 posts) -

@redbliss: they've already announced what the $399 package comes with.. 500g hdd, controller, headset, no eye.

#25 Edited by J12088 (434 posts) -

There not right.

And on the PS4 i can share my entire library with hundreds of people if i really wanted to. Line up and i hand it over to them.

Online
#26 Edited by StoffInator (147 posts) -

Even if Microsoft's policy on used games and always online does not effect you now, doesn't mean it won't in the future. Don't support anti consumer policy. If people buy the system it's telling them you are ok with such restrictions and it will only become worse.

#27 Posted by xyzygy (9871 posts) -

@jz said:

Adam can also give it back to Shuhei, you can not do that on the xbone.

But..he didnt.

Haha! When you think about it, this kind of works against the point of the video.

#28 Posted by Nights (602 posts) -

This is your first post? Interesting...

#29 Posted by golguin (3838 posts) -

Sony seems to be getting a lot of praise : "Microsoft-killer", "gamers aware". "How can Microsoft survive ?????"

Price : point Sony (for now). Online requirement : point Sony. Indie developers : point Sony (i think).

But ! I don't agree on the rest of the controversy.

I don't really think the used game policy is a real issue. People were worried about used game on PC when digital versions appeared (i actually don't remember). But it is not a problem now, because there are sales every day and if you wait 3 months you can have a game for half the price. If Microsoft plays its cards right and allow Steam-like sales, it's no longer an issue. If...

You've seen this video right ? Pretty funny.

But now Shuhei Yoshida can't play his game. On Xbox One, you can potentially share your whole library with ten guys, still play your games and you have potentially ten totally different libraries to go through.

Few notes : i don't have a PS3 (nor a Xbox 360) so maybe sharing digital version of game is already not an issue on Sony's side but i'd love to hear their words on it. And Xbox One policies aren't that clear.

Any thoughts on that ? Do you have more information about sharing digital versions on PS ?

The proof is in all the negative reaction Xbox One was getting and how Sony is now seen as the defender of consumer rights. Just look at the view and likes on that video for Sony's confirmation that you can lend games. Look around any website and see how much Xbox One is getting trashed. There is no need to speculate when the answer is staring you in the face.

#30 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@darji: Actually is it exactly that from the sounds of it. The limitation is one guest at a time, not whether the guest is playing a game you also happen to be playing.

I also think it's worth seriously considering the value of switching from one game to another instantly (with matchmaking running in the background) and having an end to switching discs.

I'm buying both consoles and I have to say I think it's hard to guess which one will be my primary.

No it is not. As I said you can browse the library o some of your friend and then you can play it but not at the same time.

Also you have one time the option to give a friend who was at least 30 days on your friendlist the game but then you will never be able to play it again with your account and he can never trade it again as well.

#31 Edited by MoonwalkSA (418 posts) -

I haven't bought a console game new in over 5 years, and as a college-age person trying to save money while still keeping up with gaming, I know I'm not alone in that. Trading I can take or leave, but used game sales is still a huge deal in the console market. I refuse to pay $60 for any release, no matter how new or AAA it is.

#32 Posted by bobbyjrjr (5 posts) -

@marcsman I'm not trying to defend Microsoft here, i wasn't making an argument. I don't think i'll buy a console, i'll stick to the PC. But Sony made me interested in console again that's for sure.

@darji @mariachimacabre @themasterds Did Microsoft made any of that clearer ? Because if it's one guest at a time for the whole library it's pretty shitty.

@jimmyfenix I followed your advice. That was a bad advice. I'm confused. Me stupid man. What do you understand when you read their policies ?

@jz Well it doesn't really apply. You "duplicate" the game on XBone, not giving it.

#33 Posted by xyzygy (9871 posts) -

@darji said:

@themasterds said:

@darji: Actually is it exactly that from the sounds of it. The limitation is one guest at a time, not whether the guest is playing a game you also happen to be playing.

I also think it's worth seriously considering the value of switching from one game to another instantly (with matchmaking running in the background) and having an end to switching discs.

I'm buying both consoles and I have to say I think it's hard to guess which one will be my primary.

No it is not. As I said you can browse the library o some of your friend and then you can play it but not at the same time.

Also you have one time the option to give a friend who was at least 30 days on your friendlist the game but then you will never be able to play it again with your account and he can never trade it again as well.

I'm fairly positive that they specifically say in their policy that one and only one user of the 10 (outside of yourself) can play any game in the list at the same time you are.

  • Share access to your games with everyone inside your home: Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games. Anyone can play your games on your console--regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you.
  • Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

It specifically says that you can always play your games and any one person of that group can also be playing anything at any given time.

#34 Posted by theveej (811 posts) -

@redbliss: I feel the same way. We know that there will at least be a bundle with the camera that will probably cost around 499 or 549. if the hard drive for 399 model anything less than 250gb then that is complete BS.

Used game is still a non issue, big publishers are going to online pass the shit out of PS4 games (more so than now) they will get their money back one way or another, but either way its a non issue for me. Lending games is a big thing for me so that is a huge point for Sony.

But honestly, I am going to be buying most games digitally for next gen, so all of this lending and used game issues areikind of a mute point if you think about it in the long haul. I do like the comfort of being able to lend/burrow games though.

My biggest worry about all of this is with the amount of persistent online open world games announced at E3, it seems like you would have to be connected to the internet anyways to enjoy most of the games shown at E3 this year. With one console being always online and the other not, I am not sure how this would impact these games in a practical sense (maybe its a non issue). Also if the new kinect is actually good and MS gets a foothold in via a subsidize model or people just buying it for the Xbox brand and COD/Titanfall and developers start integrating kinect in a meaningful way, then that would put PS4 in a hard spot (doubtful it would happen).

#35 Edited by LaP (1 posts) -

The Steam argument again.

Give it a rest. It's apple to orange. I've never paid a game on Steam more than 30$ (even the big release). Steam games go down in price rather quickly if you are willing to wait between 3 to 6 months. They are making lot of 50% sales. Not being able to sell my game is not a problem when i buy them 30$. Not being able to sell them to whoever i want when i pay them 60$ it's another story.

#36 Posted by shivermetimbers (754 posts) -

Neither Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo are your friends. Mmmkay? They just want your money. Mmmkay? Either one of them is going to pounce when they see an opportunity to sway costumers. Mmmkay? Mmmkay!

#37 Edited by MoonwalkSA (418 posts) -

@theveej said:

@redbliss: I feel the same way. We know that there will at least be a bundle with the camera that will probably cost around 499 or 549. if the hard drive for 399 model anything less than 250gb then that is complete BS.

They've already stated that the $399 PS4 will come with a 500GB hard drive, and that PS4 hard drives will be replaceable.

#38 Edited by Wrighteous86 (3719 posts) -

@bobbyjrjr: Your assumptions about how you can use your "license" with 10 people is a big leap. I don't think it will work how you want it to work.

I don't get this big MS defense from people. Are they trying to be contrarian? Or do they refuse to believe that a company that they want to "win" is making such aggressively bad decisions?

I liked my 360 more than my PS3. I think PS4 sounds better so far. "Loyalty" beyond a product-to-product basis is the height of consumer ignorance.

#39 Posted by Nixon34 (96 posts) -

@bobbyjrjr: So im not so sure if your description of Microsoft's sharing policy is correct. there is no way they are going to allow you to share your game while you still have access to it. I would no longer have any reason to purchase a game my friends have, therefore hurting sales. at least with a disc based game, i cant play it while i dont have it. I cant help but think that no one really knows what their plans are right now and everything else is conjecture based on vague comments. We are probably best off just waiting till guys like the Bombers have the system and try to do all these things.

#40 Posted by Nixon34 (96 posts) -

@excast: While i am sympathetic to the fact that no one wants to drop 60$ on a game, by doing this, you are essentially helping destroy the industry. Making games is a business and if a company is not getting the money they put into development back from sales, then why would they continue. i dont agree with the DRM stuff but if we all just went to redbox or if we all just bought a used copy of a game, the industry would die. I support used games because eventually its impossible to find a new copy of a game (ever try to look for a sealed copy of WWE all Stars, its darn near impossible) but while the option is there, make sure you are supporting the people who made the game you want to play so they can keep making more.

#41 Edited by redbliss (647 posts) -

@killacam said:

@redbliss: they've already announced what the $399 package comes with.. 500g hdd, controller, headset, no eye.

That is crazy. Maybe it is just me, but that doesnt seem to add up. New console hardware with double the hard drive space for only $100 more than what a PS3 costs now? With all the rumors about multiple SKUs, this makes me wonder what those other SKUs are going to be then.

#42 Edited by bobbyjrjr (5 posts) -

@rvone I agree with you. I don't like Microsoft attitude. Sony acknowledged their past mistakes and now they give developers and core players what they want. Smart move.

@stoffinator I agree ! I'd rather give money to Sony.

@golguin Is Microsoft gonna fail ? I don't think so. They made the perfect product for another segment. You can play CoD, Madden and watch fucking reality TV shows. The voices on the internet don't represent the buyers (not all of them). I mean Kinect is a fucking disaster, 24 million units sold !

But man there is something wrong somewhere don't you think ? I have a hard believing Microsoft jumped on the DRM, online, no used game, big brother wagon without any pressure from the publishers.

#43 Posted by Nixon34 (96 posts) -

@redbliss: I had read up to this point that the Eye is in every box, where did you see the opposite.

#44 Posted by Nixon34 (96 posts) -

@bobbyjrjr: This is exactly what they did, they were looking to far forward into the future and hedged their bets on everyone having broadband internet. they were wrong. And they absolutely did all this in agreement with the Publishers, they just didnt prepare for the possibility that Sony wouldnt join them.

#45 Posted by Sergio (2038 posts) -

@redbliss said:

@killacam said:

@redbliss: they've already announced what the $399 package comes with.. 500g hdd, controller, headset, no eye.

That is crazy. Maybe it is just me, but that doesnt seem to add up. New console hardware with double the hard drive space for only $100 more than what a PS3 costs now? With all the rumors about multiple SKUs, this makes me wonder what those other SKUs are going to be then.

I expect a price drop closer to launch. There's not much reason in announcing one at E3. I'd also expect one for the new Xbox 360, but I kind of expected a price drop announced as part of that, since it's a new kit.

#46 Edited by servothx (25 posts) -

Amazing how many "ifs" that are popping up today.

Got to hand to the masters of FUD.

#47 Posted by bobbyjrjr (5 posts) -

@wrighteous86 Assumptions. Big leap. You're right. It just seems unclear to me (English is not my mother tongue btw (easy way out)). I wanted to have your opinions and maybe other sources. I don't want MS to win. With this competition, the players will win, so great. I just don't get how we ended up with two completely different strategies. Did the publishers had any say in this ? This is really interesting.

#48 Posted by redbliss (647 posts) -

@sergio: I am just wondering where the give is with the PS4. I guess it doesnt have to have any, but every console has always had little negative quirks and I am just wondering what those are for the PS4. Maybe it really is the perfect console, but I just feel like there are some issues that we wont know about until the console is released or something. Its all too good to be true.

#49 Edited by hermes (1350 posts) -

@bobbyjrjr: It all boils down to this: Sony's policy is pretty similar to this generation policy, except for free multiplayer. Microsoft policy is a convoluted mess, full of holes, "may", "exploring possibilities", and things to be defined. At this point, I would say most of Microsoft policies will be cemented on the following months, because now even they are not sure of them.

For example, in your case, you can have 10 people playing the same game. But another section defines that you can only lend games to one person (not at the time, but forever), and only for 1 month. So, does those people count as people you lend the game? If they do, for how long are you allowed to play on separate consoles? Will you all be able to play the game at the same time? With each other?

#50 Posted by JoshS (409 posts) -

@zombie2011: Out of control budgets are why games are perceived as failures, even when they sell millions of copies.