#1 Edited by chickdigger802 (501 posts) -

Watched the giantbomb ocarina 3d QL. Something is still off imo.

I still feel no one has done the 'perfect' remake yet, how much do you update graphics and gameplay?

Do you keep the original graphic style (Sure this 3ds ocarina remake has better graphics, but it still visually gives off the n64 vibe)? Or go for a 'reimagining' look which would almost always anger a certain population of fans.

Do you keep all the same gameplay exactly the same, even though some elements might not hold up as well?

With Zelda and Halo this year, I do wonder how fans react to both.

But for some reason redone music is pretty much always great.

What are some of your favorite video game 'remakes'?

#2 Posted by Video_Game_King (34594 posts) -

Logically, the perfect remake improves on the flaws in the original while still retaining what made it good in the first place.

#3 Posted by TooWalrus (12972 posts) -

I really like what Halo Anniversary is doing- you hit a button to switch back and forth to the original and improved graphics- it's awesome.

#4 Posted by Gamer_152 (13970 posts) -

This may seem a little obvious but I think it's worth mentioning that the method to the perfect remake depends on the opinions of the player and is therefore a subjective concept. Personally I think the approach very much depends on the game, especially the age of the game; some games require some retuning of gameplay mechanics and a complete technical overhaul, others just require a bit of a graphical polish. There are also many instances where the gameplay mechanics might be adequate but not perfect in the modern sense, and here you have the choice to either preserve the full nostalgia of the game or try and improve it for the modern age, and I think both are very valid approaches to remaking a game, but with the difference between what each approach is going for its very hard to compare the two, although I think I'd more often that not go for the latter over the former. As Video_Game_King said any tinkering of game mechanics should be done with respect to what the original mechanics were trying to invoke. Personally I'm not sure I really have any favourite game remakes, but I do expect the Zelda and Halo remakes to be big hits with fans.

Moderator
#5 Posted by Hailinel (22704 posts) -

@chickdigger802 said:

Watched the giantbomb ocarina 3d QL. Something is still off imo.

I still feel no one has done the 'perfect' remake yet, how much do you update graphics and gameplay?

Do you keep the original graphic style (Sure this 3ds ocarina remake has better graphics, but it still visually gives off the n64 vibe)? Or go for a 'reimagining' look which would almost always anger a certain population of fans.

Do you keep all the same gameplay exactly the same, even though some elements might not hold up as well?

With Zelda and Halo this year, I do wonder how fans react to both.

But for some reason redone music is pretty much always great.

What are some of your favorite video game 'remakes'?

I don't know what you mean about Ocarina of Time 3D giving off an N64 vibe. Have you actually seen the remake next to the original?

#6 Posted by Video_Game_King (34594 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

I don't know what you mean about Ocarina of Time 3D giving off an N64 vibe. Have you actually seen the remake next to the original?
Um, it's still an N64 game. If it didn't give off an N64 vibe, that would fucking freak me out. Yes, I've watched the Quick Look, and it pained me to see Brad ignore something he figured out about ten minutes earlier (THE CRATES! THE FUCKING CRATES!).
#7 Posted by Hailinel (22704 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel said:

I don't know what you mean about Ocarina of Time 3D giving off an N64 vibe. Have you actually seen the remake next to the original?
Um, it's still an N64 game. If it didn't give off an N64 vibe, that would fucking freak me out. Yes, I've watched the Quick Look, and it pained me to see Brad ignore something he figured out about ten minutes earlier (THE CRATES! THE FUCKING CRATES!).

...

Since when was the 3DS version of Ocarina of Time an N64 game? What with the upgraded graphics, retooled interface and everything else?

#8 Posted by Video_Game_King (34594 posts) -
@Hailinel
 
Since Nintendo announced, "Hey, we're updating an N64 game for the 3DS." It's still Ocarina of Time, which means it's still an N64 game. It's not like they just used the Ocarina of Time name to make a completely different game about Navi's myopia, which caused her to bump into objects a lot, permanently affecting her memory.
#9 Posted by chickdigger802 (501 posts) -

@Hailinel: The way link moves is a bit sluggish, the shadows are laughable, link clipping all over the place, and the world textures like the plains of hyrule don't remind you of n64? This ain't the 'wii level graphics' the system is capable of o_O.

#10 Posted by tourgen (4229 posts) -

I'm not a fan of remakes. The best remakes are the ones that don't get made.

#11 Posted by Redbullet685 (5980 posts) -
@Video_Game_King said:
Logically, the perfect remake improves on the flaws in the original while still retaining what made it good in the first place.
Or adding on to the greatness like REmake (Gamecube Resident Evil)
#12 Posted by Video_Game_King (34594 posts) -
@Redbullet685
 
I think I covered that with "improve on the flaws of the original." I'd say that the REmakes did that, but I haven't played them. Also, tank controls.
#13 Posted by chickdigger802 (501 posts) -

oh yeah, am I the only one that kinda enjoyed the wii golden eye? It did do a pretty nice mixture of old goldeneye and CoD elements. And the first person melee kills are some of the best since condemned and that vin diesel game.

#14 Posted by bartok (2371 posts) -

Just going to repeat a bunch of other people.  Capturing the spirit of the original game while modernizing gameplay for a new generation that never played the original.

#15 Posted by Hailinel (22704 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel: Since Nintendo announced, "Hey, we're updating an N64 game for the 3DS." It's still Ocarina of Time, which means it's still an N64 game. It's not like they just used the Ocarina of Time name to make a completely different game about Navi's myopia, which caused her to bump into objects a lot, permanently affecting her memory.

Oh my god.

My point shouldn't be this hard to understand.

Seriously. It is not an N64 game. It is a remake of a game that originally appeared on the N64. To call Ocarina of Time 3D by itself an N64 game is a falsehood.

#16 Posted by Redbullet685 (5980 posts) -
@Video_Game_King said:
@Redbullet685:   I think I covered that with "improve on the flaws of the original." I'd say that the REmakes did that, but I haven't played them. Also, tank controls.
Since you've never played them (And you call yourself a VideoGameKing), you wouldn't know that I was inferring to the extra gameplay in the REmake. There is extra rooms, items, etc.
#17 Posted by chickdigger802 (501 posts) -

@Hailinel: don't argue on semantics, this ain't gamefaqs ;P

I did mention it gave a 'n64 vibe', not really saying it was a 'n64 game'.

#18 Posted by msavo (7522 posts) -

@Hailinel: Obviously he doesn't mean this is exactly the same as the N64 game, the graphics, interface, music etc are different, I think he is trying to say it still feels like a N64 game or gives of that type of vibe. Super Mario 64 DS is a DS game but it still feels like a 64 game in most parts. Personally it feels like an N64 game in that Hyrule field is empty and lifeless, not a fault of the game seeing as it came out years ago but still feels weird seeing that with new graphics in 2011. That being said from what I've seen it looks like a very good remake.

#19 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4307 posts) -

wouldnt a perfect remake give the same sense of innovation and wonder as the original has?

#20 Posted by Jersey_Jay (19 posts) -
@Redbullet685 said:
@Video_Game_King said:
Logically, the perfect remake improves on the flaws in the original while still retaining what made it good in the first place.
Or adding on to the greatness like REmake (Gamecube Resident Evil)
I agree with both these statements.
 
Along with the above, making a remake constitutes at the very least, learning from previous attempts at failed and successful remakes, as well as consumers demand for a fresh take on the game. Gamecubes Resident Evil, I believe, would be the poster child for comparisons if there is going to be any attempts and making something "perfect". And I would use the word "perfect" loosely. One man's perfect can be another man's flawed.
#21 Posted by ckeats (489 posts) -

I've been playing the Ocarina of Time remake and it seems pretty perfect to me. It's literally the same game with a fresh coat of paint, and better inventory management.

So in other words, like Video_Game_King said "improves on the flaws in the original while still retaining what made it good in the first place."

This is why movie remakes are harder to pull off than games.

#22 Posted by chickdigger802 (501 posts) -

@kud12001 said:

I've been playing the Ocarina of Time remake and it seems pretty perfect to me. It's literally the same game with a fresh coat of paint, and better inventory management.

So in other words, like Video_Game_King said "improves on the flaws in the original while still retaining what made it good in the first place."

This is why movie remakes are harder to pull off than games.

Glad you think so! All the press and what not seems like nintendo were struggling what to stick in this game. It's natural to be a bit wary when a game touts 'new feature: Boss rush!'....

Will pick it up whenever I feel like getting a 3ds is a good investment, cuz I feel 2012 might be a weak year for 3ds unless they announce some stuff later.

#23 Posted by AuthenticM (3672 posts) -

The Resident Evil remake for the GameCube is the prime exemple of how to properly remake a classic.

#24 Posted by BeachThunder (11260 posts) -

A 'prefect remake' would be playing the game after erasing your memories and hopping into a time machine to where you were when you originally played the game. Basically, the problem is, altering the original in any way is to also deviate from people's expectations and memories. I think the main reason people want remakes is so that 'their game' becomes relevant and fresh again - an attempt to recapture the feeling of playing that special game for the first time again.

#25 Posted by Grumbel (910 posts) -
@AuthenticM said:

The Resident Evil remake for the GameCube is the prime exemple of how to properly remake a classic.

Not really, I didn't like the Remake much. Sure it looked really pretty, but a lot of the atmosphere got lost. Dogs jumping through the window in the original still freaks me out, I barely noticed them in the remake. They also added a whole bunch of stuff to it to stretch it out, which didn't help either.
#26 Posted by Kjellm87 (1728 posts) -

Metroid Zero, now THAT was a perfect remake.

#27 Posted by Grumbel (910 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

I don't know what you mean about Ocarina of Time 3D giving off an N64 vibe. Have you actually seen the remake next to the original?

The graphics are improved, sure, but really the improvement is rather tiny, not that much bigger then what you got from Mario64 -> Mario64DS. The graphics still feel much closer to a N64 game then they do to something like the 3DS Resident Evil game. Also the by far biggest improvement is only in the Link character, the environment have barely improved at all, aside from higher res textures.
#28 Edited by MattyFTM (14243 posts) -

The problem with remakes is that you nearly always have to compromise. You either have to update the mechanics everything to modernize it, or you leave the dated mechanics intact. The former alienates fans of the original, the latter alienates new players. Finding a middle ground is very, very hard. And even when you do find a decent middle ground, you can be pretty sure that someone is going to be pissed off anyway.

Monkey Island and Monkey Island 2 Special Edition are as close to perfect remakes as you're ever going to get. They managed to stay true to the source material and provide an experience in line with the original, yet they added a hint system to make the traditional adventure gameplay more accessible to new players. And being able to instantly switch between the original and the updated version was fantastic. They weren't perfect, though. The old fashioned verb table in SoMI was clunky and dated. The sequel streamlined that process, but the sequel also had some bugs that detracted from the experience. But overall they were fantastic remakes.

Moderator
#29 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4479 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@Hailinel: Since Nintendo announced, "Hey, we're updating an N64 game for the 3DS." It's still Ocarina of Time, which means it's still an N64 game. It's not like they just used the Ocarina of Time name to make a completely different game about Navi's myopia, which caused her to bump into objects a lot, permanently affecting her memory.

Oh my god.

My point shouldn't be this hard to understand.

Seriously. It is not an N64 game. It is a remake of a game that originally appeared on the N64. To call Ocarina of Time 3D by itself an N64 game is a falsehood.

Somebody being a pedantic idiot? On Giant Bomb?

:O

STFU.

#30 Posted by VilhelmNielsen (1733 posts) -

The perfect remake is released shortly after the original. If it's quick enough, no nostalgia exists.

#31 Posted by Hailinel (22704 posts) -

@GunslingerPanda: How is the expression of frustration pedantic?

#32 Posted by chickdigger802 (501 posts) -

@VilhelmNielsen said:

The perfect remake is released shortly after the original. If it's quick enough, no nostalgia exists.

oh, you mean like metal gear subsistence style 'updates?

#33 Posted by Sayishere (1838 posts) -

Im a big fan of the Resident Evil remake on the Gamecube, it felt like how the game should have been.

#34 Posted by Hizang (8534 posts) -

Are HD Collections on the PS3 considered remakes, is so there pretty much all perfect remakes. Although I think Resident Evil for the GC is a fantastic remake.

#35 Posted by chickdigger802 (501 posts) -

@Hizang said:

Are HD Collections on the PS3 considered remakes, is so there pretty much all perfect remakes. Although I think Resident Evil for the GC is a fantastic remake.

hmmm, not really imo. It's kinda like playing a pc game on a meh pc vs great pc that can max it. I'm not sure they changed anything at all except some of the menu art.

#36 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11001 posts) -
@AuthenticM said:

The Resident Evil remake for the GameCube is the prime exemple of how to properly remake a classic.

Straight up. REmake is the poster child for how to remake a game properly. It takes iconic scenes and encounters from the original, twists them a little so that you're still surprised by the outcome, and then adds plenty of its own flavor as well. I'd go as far as to call it a wholly different game from the original, because of how they went and changed every aspect of it. To use a similar, but far more disputed, example Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes changed things about the original that some individuals found distasteful. Nonetheless, it couldn't be mistaken for the original game. 
 
 Meanwhile, I wouldn't call Ocarina of Time 3DS a full on remake (nor could I really call it an enhanced port) because aside from the graphical and control enhancements its still the exact same game at heart. And really, that's all I'd want them to do because Ocarina of Time doesn't really need any of its content messed with, otherwise we'd find ourselves in a Mario 64 DS style situation where the remade product is actually inferior to the game it's based on. And that's not to say Mario 64 DS is a bad game, but are you really going to tell me with a straight face that what it adds makes the game better?
#37 Posted by LouChou (458 posts) -
@Jersey_Jay said:
@Redbullet685 said:
@Video_Game_King said:
Logically, the perfect remake improves on the flaws in the original while still retaining what made it good in the first place.
Or adding on to the greatness like REmake (Gamecube Resident Evil)
I agree with both these statements. Along with the above, making a remake constitutes at the very least, learning from previous attempts at failed and successful remakes, as well as consumers demand for a fresh take on the game. Gamecubes Resident Evil, I believe, would be the poster child for comparisons if there is going to be any attempts and making something "perfect". And I would use the word "perfect" loosely. One man's perfect can be another man's flawed.
The thing is, the REmake was fundamentally the same game. Gameplay, for instance, was pretty much identical really. It was all of the elements surrounding it that seemed to be greatly improved upon, which managed to raise the level of the gameplay experience. I mean, those tank controls stayed intact, as well as the deliberately jarring, fixed camera angles. But the sound design and visuals (as much as we say graphics don't make a game) completely redefined the experience.
#38 Posted by Redbullet685 (5980 posts) -
@LouChou said:
@Jersey_Jay said:
@Redbullet685 said:
@Video_Game_King said:
Logically, the perfect remake improves on the flaws in the original while still retaining what made it good in the first place.
Or adding on to the greatness like REmake (Gamecube Resident Evil)
I agree with both these statements. Along with the above, making a remake constitutes at the very least, learning from previous attempts at failed and successful remakes, as well as consumers demand for a fresh take on the game. Gamecubes Resident Evil, I believe, would be the poster child for comparisons if there is going to be any attempts and making something "perfect". And I would use the word "perfect" loosely. One man's perfect can be another man's flawed.
The thing is, the REmake was fundamentally the same game. Gameplay, for instance, was pretty much identical really. It was all of the elements surrounding it that seemed to be greatly improved upon, which managed to raise the level of the gameplay experience. I mean, those tank controls stayed intact, as well as the deliberately jarring, fixed camera angles. But the sound design and visuals (as much as we say graphics don't make a game) completely redefined the experience.
Some people, myself included, actually prefer the tank controls and fixed cameras of the older games. I think new Resident Evil games should go back to being like the original.
#39 Posted by LouChou (458 posts) -
@Redbullet685 said:
@LouChou said:
@Jersey_Jay said:
@Redbullet685 said:
@Video_Game_King said:
Logically, the perfect remake improves on the flaws in the original while still retaining what made it good in the first place.
Or adding on to the greatness like REmake (Gamecube Resident Evil)
I agree with both these statements. Along with the above, making a remake constitutes at the very least, learning from previous attempts at failed and successful remakes, as well as consumers demand for a fresh take on the game. Gamecubes Resident Evil, I believe, would be the poster child for comparisons if there is going to be any attempts and making something "perfect". And I would use the word "perfect" loosely. One man's perfect can be another man's flawed.
The thing is, the REmake was fundamentally the same game. Gameplay, for instance, was pretty much identical really. It was all of the elements surrounding it that seemed to be greatly improved upon, which managed to raise the level of the gameplay experience. I mean, those tank controls stayed intact, as well as the deliberately jarring, fixed camera angles. But the sound design and visuals (as much as we say graphics don't make a game) completely redefined the experience.
Some people, myself included, actually prefer the tank controls and fixed cameras of the older games. I think new Resident Evil games should go back to being like the original.
I'm totally with you on that. I adored the old school RE experience, and I think the soul of RE disappeared a bit with RE4 (I've actually just created a topic on it as I really wanted to talk about it)
#40 Posted by Kazona (3055 posts) -

Having the balls to actually take out the old shit that doesn't work anymore in these times, and replacing them with something that does. The problem--in my opinion--with most remakes are that the developers are too scared to go far enough to bring it up to current day's standards. They're afraid of alienating existing fans, so they try to stay as true to the original as possible. But what they should be doing, is make it enjoyable enough for people who didn't experience the original the first time around.

#41 Edited by valrog (3671 posts) -
  • Better visuals (New engine preferably
  • Better physics (If needed, I think the visuals would cover things like smoke, fire, etc.)
  • Fixed bugs
  • Better animation
  • Maybe some small adjustments to gameplay
  • Better audio
#42 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

I still think Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes is a brilliant remake and don't understand the hate for it.
 
It looks damn great via an emulator too.

#43 Posted by chickdigger802 (501 posts) -

@Kazona said:

Having the balls to actually take out the old shit that doesn't work anymore in these times, and replacing them with something that does. The problem--in my opinion--with most remakes are that the developers are too scared to go far enough to bring it up to current day's standards. They're afraid of alienating existing fans, so they try to stay as true to the original as possible. But what they should be doing, is make it enjoyable enough for people who didn't experience the original the first time around.

'vocal minority'. The most vocal ones still buy it anyways to complain so what can you do about them?

"Go back and play the original" counter argument still works most of the time ;)

#44 Posted by Kazona (3055 posts) -

@chickdigger802: I just wish that developers would worry less about that vocal minority (provided you mean vocal minority = fans of original), and more about the majority that has never played the original.

#45 Posted by GunstarRed (4728 posts) -

Everything that was done to the Mario games in Super Mario All Stars.
#46 Posted by Video_Game_King (34594 posts) -
@marioncobretti said:
Everything that was done to the Mario games in Super Mario All Stars.
You mean what I said on the first page?