From Mars.
Where did the Frog Fractions love come from?
@mlarrabee said:
I just finished it.
It was like sitting next to the kid who keeps poking you in the ribs and quoting Silence of the Lambs and expecting you to laugh.
Granted, the kid's actually very intelligent, but he tries too hard. Or maybe he doesn't try enough.
This is basically my thoughts on the game too. All it does is just bring up stuff from my childhood and asks me if I remember all those good times playing weird educational games. Yes, it was crazy to find bug mars. No, I didn't think it made the game good or funny.
But then again I played Saints Row The Third for a couple of hours and didn't even crack a smile, so I probably just hate fun.
I understand why everyone thinks this game is funny (personally I'm not the type of person who finds random nonsense comical, but whatever humors really subjective, and the boxing monologue got me for a second) what really bothers me is that the humor is practically the games only appeal. It doesn't have good or even unique gameplay, visually speaking it doesn't look any better than most flash games, and its only like twenty minutes long. I'm glad people like it, I really am, but to act like it's one of the ten best games that came out this year is asinine.
@Hunter5024 said:
I understand why everyone thinks this game is funny (personally I'm not the type of person who finds random nonsense comical, but whatever humors really subjective, and the boxing monologue got me for a second) what really bothers me is that the humor is practically the games only appeal. It doesn't have good or even unique gameplay, visually speaking it doesn't look any better than most flash games, and its only like twenty minutes long. I'm glad people like it, I really am, but to act like it's one of the ten best games that came out this year is asinine.
Are people acting like that? I thought they just thought it was neat to realise there was more to it than a dumb edutainment game.
@LackingSaint said:
@Hunter5024 said:
I understand why everyone thinks this game is funny (personally I'm not the type of person who finds random nonsense comical, but whatever humors really subjective, and the boxing monologue got me for a second) what really bothers me is that the humor is practically the games only appeal. It doesn't have good or even unique gameplay, visually speaking it doesn't look any better than most flash games, and its only like twenty minutes long. I'm glad people like it, I really am, but to act like it's one of the ten best games that came out this year is asinine.
Are people acting like that? I thought they just thought it was neat to realise there was more to it than a dumb edutainment game.
It's been in more than one top 10, including Brad's.
@Hunter5024 said:
@LackingSaint said:
@Hunter5024 said:
I understand why everyone thinks this game is funny (personally I'm not the type of person who finds random nonsense comical, but whatever humors really subjective, and the boxing monologue got me for a second) what really bothers me is that the humor is practically the games only appeal. It doesn't have good or even unique gameplay, visually speaking it doesn't look any better than most flash games, and its only like twenty minutes long. I'm glad people like it, I really am, but to act like it's one of the ten best games that came out this year is asinine.
Are people acting like that? I thought they just thought it was neat to realise there was more to it than a dumb edutainment game.
It's been in more than one top 10, including Brad's.
Wowzers, really? I love the Bombcrew but sometimes it feels like they're giving progressively less of a shit about actual gameplay in a game. First Brad showcased his GOTY by showing what basically amounts to cutscenes in which you choose the order of the dialogue, and now Frog Fractions is getting GOTY-worthy praise. I mean yeah that game is pretty funny, but it is incredibly shallow, dull and uninteresting as a game.
@LackingSaint said:
@Hunter5024 said:
@LackingSaint said:
@Hunter5024 said:
I understand why everyone thinks this game is funny (personally I'm not the type of person who finds random nonsense comical, but whatever humors really subjective, and the boxing monologue got me for a second) what really bothers me is that the humor is practically the games only appeal. It doesn't have good or even unique gameplay, visually speaking it doesn't look any better than most flash games, and its only like twenty minutes long. I'm glad people like it, I really am, but to act like it's one of the ten best games that came out this year is asinine.
Are people acting like that? I thought they just thought it was neat to realise there was more to it than a dumb edutainment game.
It's been in more than one top 10, including Brad's.
Wowzers, really? I love the Bombcrew but sometimes it feels like they're giving progressively less of a shit about actual gameplay in a game. First Brad showcased his GOTY by showing what basically amounts to cutscenes in which you choose the order of the dialogue, and now Frog Fractions is getting GOTY-worthy praise. I mean yeah that game is pretty funny, but it is incredibly shallow, dull and uninteresting as a game.
Pretty much. And I'm not trying to say it's bad or anything, I think it's pretty neat, but it just feels like including it diminishes the accomplishments of the other games in 2012.
@Hunter5024 said:
@LackingSaint said:
@Hunter5024 said:
@LackingSaint said:
@Hunter5024 said:
I understand why everyone thinks this game is funny (personally I'm not the type of person who finds random nonsense comical, but whatever humors really subjective, and the boxing monologue got me for a second) what really bothers me is that the humor is practically the games only appeal. It doesn't have good or even unique gameplay, visually speaking it doesn't look any better than most flash games, and its only like twenty minutes long. I'm glad people like it, I really am, but to act like it's one of the ten best games that came out this year is asinine.
Are people acting like that? I thought they just thought it was neat to realise there was more to it than a dumb edutainment game.
It's been in more than one top 10, including Brad's.
Wowzers, really? I love the Bombcrew but sometimes it feels like they're giving progressively less of a shit about actual gameplay in a game. First Brad showcased his GOTY by showing what basically amounts to cutscenes in which you choose the order of the dialogue, and now Frog Fractions is getting GOTY-worthy praise. I mean yeah that game is pretty funny, but it is incredibly shallow, dull and uninteresting as a game.
Pretty much. And I'm not trying to say it's bad or anything, I think it's pretty neat, but it just feels like including it diminishes the accomplishments of the other games in 2012.
I guess maybe i'm just a bit jaded against Frog Fractions because as a kid I spent a lot of time playing games on Newgrounds, so "flash game that seems to fit genre cliches then subverts it in a humorous or clever fashion" is kind of in itself tired to me.
@Hunter5024 said:
@LackingSaint said:
@Hunter5024 said:
@LackingSaint said:
@Hunter5024 said:
I understand why everyone thinks this game is funny (personally I'm not the type of person who finds random nonsense comical, but whatever humors really subjective, and the boxing monologue got me for a second) what really bothers me is that the humor is practically the games only appeal. It doesn't have good or even unique gameplay, visually speaking it doesn't look any better than most flash games, and its only like twenty minutes long. I'm glad people like it, I really am, but to act like it's one of the ten best games that came out this year is asinine.
Are people acting like that? I thought they just thought it was neat to realise there was more to it than a dumb edutainment game.
It's been in more than one top 10, including Brad's.
Wowzers, really? I love the Bombcrew but sometimes it feels like they're giving progressively less of a shit about actual gameplay in a game. First Brad showcased his GOTY by showing what basically amounts to cutscenes in which you choose the order of the dialogue, and now Frog Fractions is getting GOTY-worthy praise. I mean yeah that game is pretty funny, but it is incredibly shallow, dull and uninteresting as a game.
Pretty much. And I'm not trying to say it's bad or anything, I think it's pretty neat, but it just feels like including it diminishes the accomplishments of the other games in 2012.
Here's an idea: if you don't think Frog Fractions (or any other game for that matter) doesn't do enough merit to be worthy of a spot in your GOTY list, then don't put it. But if Brad (or anyone else) thinks it does, then there's absolutely no reason to get pissed about it. It doesn't make any other game look bad, it's not there just to troll you. Brad knows why he included it in his own, personal GOTY list, so let it be.
So to sum it up..
1) A cute little flash game carries planetary sizes of fun and joy in the gameplay that works well for people with a good old heart for classics
2) People in the industry like it and show it
3) Plebs shit themselves because it's not a multi-million production tripping on its own dick, it's a flash game, it doesn't belong because you can no longer make a game out of fun and gameplay?
Now I'd like to see what if somebody took Receiver as their fave action/FPS in their list.
@SomeJerk said:
So to sum it up.. 1) A cute little flash game carries planetary sizes of fun and joy in the gameplay that works well for people with a good old heart for classics 2) People in the industry like it and show it 3) Plebs shit themselves because it's not a multi-million production tripping on its own dick, it's a flash game, it doesn't belong because you can no longer make a game out of fun and gameplay? Now I'd like to see what if somebody took Receiver as their fave action/FPS in their list.
Yes, if you would like to make a massive strawman argument then that would sum it up. Or you could stop making up the argument that anyone cares that it's a small independant game because this community loves FTL, Hotline Miami, Fez, and many other small-time, low-budget experiences. But no, I guess i'm just a pleb because pressing direction keys to move across a featureless, totally inconsequential series of underwater caves for the better part of 5 minutes, and then playing an extremely limited version of a tower defense game with some funny flavour text for the upgrades didn't constitute "planetary sizes of fun and joy".
@JoeyRavn said:
Here's an idea: if you don't think Frog Fractions (or any other game for that matter) doesn't do enough merit to be worthy of a spot in your GOTY list, then don't put it. But if Brad (or anyone else) thinks it does, then there's absolutely no reason to get pissed about it. It doesn't make any other game look bad, it's not there just to troll you. Brad knows why he included it in his own, personal GOTY list, so let it be.
I'm not pissed, and I'm not claiming Brad is trolling. Like I said, I'm glad people like it. But I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that if someone is claiming a 20 minute joke is one of the best experiences the industry had to offer this year, that it doesn't make that 20 minute joke seem amazing, it makes the other games that came out this year look shittier, because if a little random humor is all it takes to deserve this accomplishment, then it's not really a very big accomplishment at all.
@SomeJerk said:
So to sum it up.. 1) A cute little flash game carries planetary sizes of fun and joy in the gameplay that works well for people with a good old heart for classics 2) People in the industry like it and show it 3) Plebs shit themselves because it's not a multi-million production tripping on its own dick, it's a flash game, it doesn't belong because you can no longer make a game out of fun and gameplay? Now I'd like to see what if somebody took Receiver as their fave action/FPS in their list.
You hit the nail on the head.
I played it last night. It was very interesting. I would probably love it if it were much longer, because really it has zero replay value except for the dialogue options and maybe trying to actually play the last game - is that even possible to "win?" I just swam to the bottom of the presidential swimming pool and the game ended. I absolutely loved the text adventure and trial. It was also pretty great for, from my point of view, mocking the disparity between gaming culture and life skills. Not that this is a negative for games, it actually seems a compliment to the medium - it isn't supposed to be about reflexes or memorisation, it's an art form.
However, the whole boxing part where you swim aimlessly was mighty boring. Aside from the aforementioned fantastic text adventure, most of the game was simply dull and you really felt to be dragged along in the, albeit fun, story. It is quite odd in that respect to lavish praise on it and it probably got an inordinate amount of recency bias. If it came out a month sooner it would've been forgotten by now.
@Hunter5024 said:
@JoeyRavn said:
Here's an idea: if you don't think Frog Fractions (or any other game for that matter) doesn't do enough merit to be worthy of a spot in your GOTY list, then don't put it. But if Brad (or anyone else) thinks it does, then there's absolutely no reason to get pissed about it. It doesn't make any other game look bad, it's not there just to troll you. Brad knows why he included it in his own, personal GOTY list, so let it be.
I'm not pissed, and I'm not claiming Brad is trolling. Like I said, I'm glad people like it. But I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that if someone is claiming a 20 minute joke is one of the best experiences the industry had to offer this year, that it doesn't make that 20 minute joke seem amazing, it makes the other games that came out this year look shittier, because if a little random humor is all it takes to deserve this accomplishment, then it's not really a very big accomplishment at all.
I can't recall seeing anyone saying it's one of the best experiences the industry has had to offer this year, I just saw two guys putting it on their lists of favorite experiences this year. The thing about subjective experiences is that they're subjective, and someone will feel strongly about what others will apathetically brush off. I've myself played plenty of games this year that I don't consider worthwhile experiences to anyone that isn't me or have my set of specific tastes.
Now if we want to talk about the Game of the Year awards as something resembling a objective list of worthwhile experiences to be recognized then that's what the main awards are for. Unlike the personal lists it was created with the input of several people, people that discussed the relative strengths and weaknesses of the different games and what aspects they ultimately considered won out against the competition. The best part of this process is that you'll be able to listen to it in its entirety in the coming days. In all of its semiobjective glory.
Ultimately, I highly doubt Frog Fractions will not end up on any top 10 list that "matters".
@JackSukeru said:
I can't recall seeing anyone saying it's one of the best experiences the industry has had to offer this year, I just saw two guys putting it on their lists of favorite experiences this year. The thing about subjective experiences is that they're subjective, and someone will feel strongly about what others will apathetically brush off. I've myself played plenty of games this year that I don't consider worthwhile experiences to anyone that isn't me or have my set of specific tastes.
Now if we want to talk about the Game of the Year awards as something resembling a objective list of worthwhile experiences to be recognized then that's what the main awards are for. Unlike the personal lists it was created with the input of several people, people that discussed the relative strengths and weaknesses of the different games and what aspects they ultimately considered won out against the competition. The best part of this process is that you'll be able to listen to it in its entirety in the coming days. In all of its semiobjective glory.
Ultimately, I highly doubt Frog Fractions will not end up on any top 10 list that "matters".
I think distinguishing between "Favorite" and "Best" is just splitting hairs. Favorite just means it's best in his opinion, which is obvious. I don't need to be told that these lists are not based on fact, cause duh. But just because it's an opinion doesn't mean it can't be discussed. It's totally fine to like something because you feel strongly about it but if you're going to say "In my opinion this is the ninth best game this year" then you need to give reasons that you felt it earned this place, and I think the justification for giving Frog Fractions so much praise was pretty flimsy.
All you naysayers of Frog Fractions need to shut your little mouths. I paused the podcast played that game for an hour like Brad told me too and my mind was blown. Begone naysayers!
I find it funny whenever people put games like this on their list and then people freak the fuck out. People take Game Of The Year super seriously for some reason, like it has any real merit on the industry. When you break it down all GOTY is, is just self indulgent pandering by a video game website shouting what games they like the most to anyone who'll listen. Not that it's a bad thing, but still come on. Besides, I don't see why GOTY should have a bunch of weird qualifiers outside of an interactive experience released within the year.
I wouldn't put the game on my lists, but I think I'm missing part of that nostalgia factor that may enhance enjoyment. Still though, people are enjoying it and that doesn't bother me! I agree that it seems like the game came out of nowhere as far as GOTY talks though.
@Hunter5024 said:
@JackSukeru said:
I can't recall seeing anyone saying it's one of the best experiences the industry has had to offer this year, I just saw two guys putting it on their lists of favorite experiences this year. The thing about subjective experiences is that they're subjective, and someone will feel strongly about what others will apathetically brush off. I've myself played plenty of games this year that I don't consider worthwhile experiences to anyone that isn't me or have my set of specific tastes.
Now if we want to talk about the Game of the Year awards as something resembling a objective list of worthwhile experiences to be recognized then that's what the main awards are for. Unlike the personal lists it was created with the input of several people, people that discussed the relative strengths and weaknesses of the different games and what aspects they ultimately considered won out against the competition. The best part of this process is that you'll be able to listen to it in its entirety in the coming days. In all of its semiobjective glory.
Ultimately, I highly doubt Frog Fractions will not end up on any top 10 list that "matters".
I think distinguishing between "Favorite" and "Best" is just splitting hairs. Favorite just means it's best in his opinion, which is obvious. I don't need to be told that these lists are not based on fact, cause duh. But just because it's an opinion doesn't mean it can't be discussed. It's totally fine to like something because you feel strongly about it but if you're going to say "In my opinion this is the ninth best game this year" then you need to give reasons that you felt it earned this place, and I think the justification for giving Frog Fractions so much praise was pretty flimsy.
I disagree, favorite doesn't need to mean best in his opinion, because I believe people are perfectly capable of distinguishing between something they enjoy out of personal bias and something that is more objectively quality (to a certain extent). As an example there are quite a few games this year that I haven't played, or that I even care to play, but that I still know enough about to list if someone were to ask me for a list of quality games that came out in the last 12 months.
As a more concrete example, looking through my list of played games this year, if I were to make some kind of personal top 10 list of games then Warriors Orochi 3 would probably end up somewhere on it, even if I only consider that game a 3/5 at most. The reason for this is that if I were to review it I would try my hand at judging it in an objective way, by bringing forth what I consider to be the qualities that make it worth playing, but I would also point out its issues, the impact I feel they have on someone's ability to enjoy it and make that a part of the equation that is the score.
Most importantly though, even if it would end up on this personal list of mine I definetly would not walk into a room of people trying to decide the best games of the year and suggest it as a candidate. It pretty obviously doesn't earn that. Similarily, I also believe that there's a chance Dragon's Dogma will show up on Patricks personal list (even though he only gave that game 3 stars when he reviewed it) and that Patrick will have no qualms about cutting it early from the official GOTY list, if it even comes up at all.
My argument is basically that you're looking at these lists all wrong. These personal list thrive on personal biases and, more importantly, the whole point of them is for people to share what they enjoyed during the year, to gush over their indulgences, regardless of its objective quality, or them looking at the big picture. No one is saying "in my opinion these are the best 10 games of the year" or "here's what the GOTY would have been like had I been in charge" but rather "of all the games I played this year, I'm going to narrow it down to the 10 that stuck with me the most". That's the difference between "Favorite" and "Best", "Favorite" hold no connotation of objectivity.
@JackSukeru: Well I simply don't think there's any such thing as an objective best. It's all opinion, so to me there doesn't feel like any difference between discussing Brad's list as there would be for discussing the end of the year list. And I still think it's cool that so many people felt so positively about a little flash game, but I think they need to articulate what's so great about it better, and maybe add in a little more perspective on their opinion to justify their reasoning, because if you don't it just kind of feels like a cheap award.
@Hunter5024 said:
@JackSukeru: Well I simply don't think there's any such thing as an objective best. It's all opinion, so to me there doesn't feel like any difference between discussing Brad's list as there would be for discussing the end of the year list. And I still think it's cool that so many people felt so positively about a little flash game, but I think they need to articulate what's so great about it better, and maybe add in a little more perspective on their opinion to justify their reasoning, because if you don't it just kind of feels like a cheap award.
And they did just that on the GOTY podcast. They discussed a lot of the reasons that they found it to be an interesting experience.
@Demoskinos: And the discussion didn't go beyond how funny it was, because that's the only thing the game has going for it.
@EuanDewar said:
users on this site sure have a "have my dick and eat it too" attitude with their shitty posts huh
dayymnnn...
I really hope that that ain't true
but if it is here's what i'm gonna do for you
when you get here I'm not just gonna bang it
I'm a smash it too so let's just say I'm gonna smang it
@Animasta said:
@Hunter5024 said:
@Demoskinos: And the discussion didn't go beyond how funny it was, because that's the only thing the game has going for it.
so did you get mad at you don't know jack when it won awards last year?
I'm not mad. I don't really remember You Don't Know Jack getting as much praise as Frog Fractions, and because I haven't played it I probably wouldn't judge it as critically. But I don't really think that's the same. You Don't Know Jack isn't twenty minutes long.
@Hunter5024 said:
@Animasta said:
@Hunter5024 said:
@Demoskinos: And the discussion didn't go beyond how funny it was, because that's the only thing the game has going for it.
so did you get mad at you don't know jack when it won awards last year?
I'm not mad. I don't really remember You Don't Know Jack getting as much praise as Frog Fractions, and because I haven't played it I probably wouldn't judge it as critically. But I don't really think that's the same. You Don't Know Jack isn't twenty minutes long.
Frog Fractions isn't really getting a whole lot of praise, it's likeyou think Brad put it as his #3 or something
@Animasta: It's not that, I just really don't remember You Don't Know Jack getting very much at all. I doubt it was in anyone's top 10 list other than Ryan's. And honestly I don't care that it's in Brad's list, I think that his lack of justification for including it was what made it look bad. If he had done a better job of that then I wouldn't care if it was his number 1.
@Hunter5024: I think the difference between Brad's list and the end of the year list is that the end of the year list is put together by a group of people whom are considering perspectives other than their own. Even if there is no such thing as an objective best the difference lies in that the "official" list makes more of an effort in striving for objectivity by considering multiple perspectives, while the personal lists make no such effort. I think that if you were to ask Brad if he thought his top 10 were the best games of the year he would say no, basically.
I can agree that things could only be better if people knew how to express themselves and their opinions better. To communicate their emotions in a way so that more people could understand and take part in their perspective, yeah that'd be great, obviously, no problem there. But I disagree that there's any need for people to "justify", i.e. make it so everyone can understand, their reasoning when the opinions they express in their personal lists are designed to be willfully subjective and of no consequence to anyone (at most you could argue the staff's influence over their audience as being a reason to stay objective, but I don't think that holds up as they have been pretty clear about their lists being their own).
You say that if you don't justify it, it feels like a cheap award. That's completely true and I agree with you, because I think it IS a cheap award. Everybody and their mother has their own Game Of The Year list. Some strive for objectivity, others don't give a fuck and just put down what they like, some lists are in the forums, others are featured on the front page of this site. They all don't matter one bit.
The only one that matters, just a teensy-tiny bit, is Giant Bomb's "Official" Game of the year top 10 list. So if there's one list that needs to justify its existence and its reasoning, that needs to strive to not be, or become, a "cheap award" it is that one, because it is the only one on this site that could have any direct influence on the industry. It's the only list, or rather, the winner is the only choice that people outside of Giantbomb are going to pay attention to and that's the reasons multiple people shut themselves into a room for several hours to deliberate over them. At the end of the day they'll be able to say that they used their power of influence responsibly by putting in the proper amount of effort to come up with a good, thought out, answer (and if you doubt them then the deliberation podcast is right there to back them up).
Brad's list does not have any influence, it's not meant to, so there's no pressure to be objective and thus they don't even try, again that's not the point of their lists, it's just a fun thing.
Now if you do want to argue Frog Fractions inclusion as a nominee in the "Best moment" category you'd have more of a leg to stand on since, while still not influential at all, those awards are presented as the official stance of Giant Bomb.com so they should hold up to some amount of scrutiny.
I took Brad's advice during the Day 1 deliberation podcast and paused,played the game,smiled ,calmed down,and continued the podcast.
@Daneian said:
Idle Thumbs talked about it like a month ago.
Gamasutra has been talking about it before Idle was, & Gamasutra is way more in all their wheelhouses, not just Patrick
I played. I laughed. I loved everything about that boxing monologue. It samples from the "lawl so randum" pool of comedy that tends to fall flat, but its clever execution gives it a pass. I stopped at the text adventure part cause I had had enough; doubt I'll remember it in a month, and I kinda agree with the sentiment that it's only being mentioned on lists and such because of how recently and Squad noticed it, but that doesn't bother me. They're dumb awards, not anything to get concerned about.
I fucking love Frog Fractions. Its funny and clever in ways that big budget AAA titles fail at accomplishing with humor (most of the time). Picking a favorite part is impossible because it is all so goddamn good. From eating bugs in SPACE to DDR Presidential elections it's randomness plays in its favor and after it was all done I didn't feel dissatisfied by it which I cannot say the same about plenty of other 2012 games out there.
Earned its way into #10 spot for my list. Its just that good.
I don't know where it came from, but it felt like the videogame equivalent of Tim and Eric to me.
Whether that's a good thing or not, I'll leave that up to individual judgement. All I know is that I learned absolutely nothing about fractions by the time I was done.
I played it up to the text adventure and accidentally closed the tab, so that's as far as I'll ever get but it was incredibly nostalgic. Number Munchers immediately came to mind, along with a bunch of other games I played it school.
@Giantstalker: That isn't giving tim and eric enough credit. Frog Fractions has a very clear set of inspirations and goals, it just happens to be incredibly weird. Tim and Eric seem to try their hardest to subvert anything even seemingly close to order.
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