Where has the challenge gone?.

@newt: You know call of duty is an arena FPS right?

play fighting games

@Twiggy199: Why don't you just put every game you play on the hardest difficulty. Also, how old were you back during the snes and genesis times? I was a little kid and the games were really hard for me. I went back and played sonic 2 not too long ago, and beat it without too many problems. I don't think games were harder back then I just think people were younger, did not have 20 + years of gaming experience, and game design back then tended to not be very good. You are trying to compare two different era's of games and it just doesn't work.

@YI_Orange said:

Ugh, I hate this mentality. Games didn't become easier, they became less shit. Most old games that are difficult are that way because they're designed poorly or control poorly. The difficulty is artificial and in most cases not really fair.

Almost word for word as to how I was going to respond.

You have given poor examples of "Challenging" games. Just because Super Mario Bros. and Sonic the Hedgehog 3 made you start from the beginning did not make them difficult in any sense, unless your definition of a difficult game one you must start over every time you turn off and on the console.

But that would lead to a contradiction, because your modern day hard games are ones that save progress and let you continue from checkpoints.

So, I ask you, what do you mean by games with "challenge?"

Difficulty used to be a way to increase game length. Nowadays they can do a lot more and there is a lot more to get through. Also, when you decrease difficulty, the audience expands.

@CJduke said:

@Twiggy199: Why don't you just put every game you play on the hardest difficulty. Also, how old were you back during the snes and genesis times? I was a little kid and the games were really hard for me. I went back and played sonic 2 not too long ago, and beat it without too many problems. I don't think games were harder back then I just think people were younger, did not have 20 + years of gaming experience, and game design back then tended to not be very good. You are trying to compare two different era's of games and it just doesn't work.

I don't think its because we were younger, i think you found it easy due to a function put in the arcade release and not in the original, Saved Games.

@fRAWRst said:

play fighting games

I do.

@BeachThunder said:

@JoeyRavn said:

Well, this thread turned out awful.

Now everybody go play I Wanna Be the Guy.

That game is the epitome of difficulty through unfair design =\

And its a caricature of, some would say homage to, old school game design. Hmmm...

@Twiggy199 said:

@CJduke said:

@Twiggy199: Why don't you just put every game you play on the hardest difficulty. Also, how old were you back during the snes and genesis times? I was a little kid and the games were really hard for me. I went back and played sonic 2 not too long ago, and beat it without too many problems. I don't think games were harder back then I just think people were younger, did not have 20 + years of gaming experience, and game design back then tended to not be very good. You are trying to compare two different era's of games and it just doesn't work.

I don't think its because we were younger, i think you found it easy due to a function put in the arcade release and not in the original, Saved Games.

Nope. I played it on my genesis, not some arcade release.

Old games are...shit. Sorry, but that is true because all those beloved old games not even people who 'did' like them want to play them much. You statement is like saying "Wow, 17th century cloths washing that took three whole days to complete was SO MUCH better then a modern washing machine", because harder is better. Or the Mesoamerican ballgame or ōllamaliztli played with a severed human head shot through a hoop using your hip was better then basketball....because harder is better.

@MonkeyKing1969 said:

Old games are...shit. Sorry, but that is true because all those beloved old games not even people who 'did' like them want to play them much. You statement is like saying "Wow, 17th century cloths washing that took three whole days to complete was SO MUCH better then a modern washing machine", because harder is better. Or the Mesoamerican ballgame or ōllamaliztli played with a severed human head shot through a hoop using your hip was better then basketball....because harder is better.

Well, not all old games are shit. Half-Life is still just as fun and just as relevant today as it was back then. Crash Bandicoot 2 and 3 are still fantastic. Chrono Trigger, a game that I didn't actually play until recently, still hold up as a charming and fun adventure. Donkey Kong Country 1, 2, and 3, Super Metroid, nearly every 2D Mario game, Mega Man X1-X3, Doom 1 and 2, Quake 3, etc., all of those are still quite likable and still very fun.

(to this whole damn thread): To write off all modern games as too easy and too formulaic is ignorant of how far games have come and it betrays an unwillingness to accept that nostalgia isn't always as great as one thinks it is; in the same way, writing off all old games as unfairly difficult or chock full of horrible design choices doesn't do anything but cut you off from some really good classics that still stand up today.

@Subject2Change said:

@SomeMist said:

play some bullet hell shmups. espgaluda II, muchi muchi pork/pink sweets, mushihimesama futari ver. 1.5, ikaruga, radiant silvergun, crimzon clover, dodonpachi daifukkatsu, akai katana shin, under defeat, etc...

then there's the rail shooter sin & punishment: star successor, the action rpg/hack-n-slash muramasa: the demon blade, the rpg/dungeon crawler baroque, and so fourth lol

there's a lot of games that offer that "old school" challenge. you just have to look in the right places.

Hey Baby.

why am I not surprised that you found me? :P

New games are too easy and checkpoints make completing them too easy? Break your disc every time you die. Problem solved.

@believer258: Interestingly enough, Chrono Trigger is one of the easiest 16 bit RPGs out there. Possibly the easiest. The same goes with Donkey Kong Country. Aside from some occasionally fucked sequences, that game is rather easy. You could pick it up now and get halfway through it in 90 minutes. Super Metroid according to this article was made for babies.

@Canteu said:

@newt: You know call of duty is an arena FPS right?

The FUCK it is.

Arena FPSes involve scooting around, looking for weapon drops and powerups, not dropping in with a loadout.