#1 Posted by Jrinswand (1692 posts) -
#2 Posted by Jrinswand (1692 posts) -

I need help choosing a CPU! I'd really like to keep the price around $200, but I don't know how much of an advantage, if any, the 3570k has over the 2500k. What do you guys think I should do? Should I bite the bullet and just spend the extra $30 or so for the 3570k?

#3 Edited by Shivoa (595 posts) -

Yes, it's not a major performance upgrade (and IVB isn't the overclocking dream by the sounds of the forum chatter from the hardcore overclocking guys but that shouldn't really mater to your average user) but you're buying into a smaller process so less power consumed per point of performance and Intel don't really discount their old stock (using up most of it before releasing the new CPU - Those Ivy Bridge were in mass production almost 12 months ago and yet they held back the release to eat the stock of Sandy Bridge that got left over because HDD price spikes has lowered the number of systems shipped over the Winter).

PCI-E 3.0 isn't a major feature (only really visible at the top end of the GPU scale as giving any visible benefit) but why go without when the $230 i5-3570K replaced the $230 i5-2500K with an extra 100MHz of rated clock speed and some slight efficiency changes to do a bit more per clock (and a stronger iGPU if you want to use that for GPU transcoding/media encoding with Virtu).

Edit: can't type, wrote wrong model number for IVB i5.

#4 Posted by envane (1156 posts) -

:/ 2700k would be my minimum chocie i dunno

#5 Posted by Jrinswand (1692 posts) -

Well, I've already got a PCI-E 3.0 compatible video card, an HD 7850, but I'm rocking an old AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ CPU and an even older motherboard. What are the benefits of PCI-E 3.0?

#6 Posted by Korwin (2721 posts) -

The 3570K is better for everything (to varying levels of results) with the exception of overclocking, this being due to the change in TIM used between the core and the ISF and the disproportionate physical die size shrink to power loss ratio. That being said I'm running a 3570K at 4.5ghz without any major problems using an Antec Kuhler 920 on my loungeroom gaming machine.

#7 Posted by envane (1156 posts) -

im sure youll need the motherboard to support it too , but if its only $30 why not ? the gpu support is a decent enough reason i think

#8 Posted by Shivoa (595 posts) -

@envane,

#9 Posted by Jrinswand (1692 posts) -

I think what I might try to do is scour the internet for an i5-3570k at around $200 instead of $230. I already have the video card, so now I'm trying to upgrade the rest (mobo, cpu, hd, ram, and psu) all for around $450-500. If I weren't a college student to whom an extra $20 could mean a world of difference, I wouldn't mind just picking the best components regardless of price. Alas, though, that is not the case.

#10 Posted by envane (1156 posts) -

@Shivoa: yeah i was just going offa my knowedge from a while ago , i have one of the older i7960's when they had triple channel memory , it still does the job , i personally would like a quad channel system now for the lulz

#11 Edited by Shivoa (595 posts) -

@Jrinswand said:

Well, I've already got a PCI-E 3.0 compatible video card, an HD 7850, but I'm rocking an old AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ CPU and an even older motherboard. What are the benefits of PCI-E 3.0?

PCI-E 3.0 is twice the bandwidth of PCI-E 2.0 so a x16 3.0 slot can get twice as much data down it as a x16 2.0 slot (and in SLI/Crossfire X mode then a 3.0 x8 slot is just as fast as the full-speed x16 of a 2.0 slot). Obviously this only matters if you really want to pump a lot of data down the slot, which is why it is a marginal issue for most cases (but maybe in 2 years you are happy with the CPU/mobo/RAM but feel it's time for a new GPU and then it might be making a more visible difference to performance if you have 3.0 capabilities, something the Sandy Bridge iX-2xxx CPUs can't provide).

The thing is you're not really saving much by not getting an Ivy Bridge CPU, which is why the only mildly better is still reason enough to drop the extra $30. Be happy knowing you've got basically the best (baring those really expensive SB-E monster CPUs) gaming CPU that money can buy.

Edit: Oh, and PCI-E is a rather nice standard with plenty of backwards and forward compatibility so almost every combination works, you just run at the lowest common standard (as it sounds like you are currently experiencing with a 3.0 capable GPU in a 2.0 system and so it is detecting this and running at 2.0 speeds). One day there will be a PCI-E 4.0 and the chances are it'll be twice as fast as PCI-E 3.0 but you'll be able to slot a 4.0 card into your 3.0 system and it'll just run at 3.0 speeds so no worry there (unlike the switch from AGP to PCI-E where everyone needed to buy new cards, also while AGP was being updated then each refresh wasn't backwards and forwards compatible - they used notches in the slots to stop you inserting a card that wouldn't work).

#12 Posted by Jrinswand (1692 posts) -
@Shivoa said:

@Jrinswand said:

Well, I've already got a PCI-E 3.0 compatible video card, an HD 7850, but I'm rocking an old AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ CPU and an even older motherboard. What are the benefits of PCI-E 3.0?

PCI-E 3.0 is twice the bandwidth of PCI-E 2.0 so a x16 3.0 slot can get twice as much data down it as a x16 2.0 slot (and in SLI/Crossfire X mode then a 3.0 x8 slot is just as fast as the full-speed x16 of a 2.0 slot). Obviously this only matters if you really want to pump a lot of data down the slot, which is why it is a marginal issue for most cases (but maybe in 2 years you are happy with the CPU/mobo/RAM but feel it's time for a new GPU and then it might be making a more visible difference to performance if you have 3.0 capabilities, something the Sandy Bridge iX-2xxx CPUs can't provide).

The thing is you're not really saving much by not getting an Ivy Bridge CPU, which is why the only mildly better is still reason enough to drop the extra $30. Be happy knowing you've got basically the best (baring those really expensive SB-E monster CPUs) gaming CPU that money can buy.

Awesome advice! Thanks, Shivoa!
#13 Posted by Shivoa (595 posts) -

@Jrinswand said:

I think what I might try to do is scour the internet for an i5-3570k at around $200 instead of $230. I already have the video card, so now I'm trying to upgrade the rest (mobo, cpu, hd, ram, and psu) all for around $450-500. If I weren't a college student to whom an extra $20 could mean a world of difference, I wouldn't mind just picking the best components regardless of price. Alas, though, that is not the case.

The bad news is that's unlikely. Intel sell them for $225 so basically retailers are making no money from selling them as it is at around $230. Try looking at how to shave money from the other parts as there you do get a range of values and features.

A rather spartan but still high performance Z77 motherboard doesn't need to cost much more than $100. RAM you are basically stuck with $45 for two 4GB sticks for a matching pair totalling 8GB - you need two sticks to get the full bandwidth and you also need to make sure to get 1.35 or 1.5V as Intel has told people 1.65V is bad and yet a few companies don't comply, CL9 DDR3 1600MHz are the other specs. PSUs are easy to screw up, don't buy YumCha because it'll bite you in the ass when it doesn't work properly to supply the regulated voltage you need causing instability or breaks and fries your mobo/CPU/HDD when it dies. Get something with enough power (you have a decently low power GPU* and getting a new CPU is also high end for low power considering the performance) from a trusted brand like Corsair or CoolerMaster (or several others). HDD is a mess and the prices still haven't got back to normal since the flooding (at least where I live) - last time I was looking at HDDs I bit the bullet and got an SSD and started using the cloud for more of my data backups.

* If someone tells you you need a 750W PSU then please slap them and ask them to think before they speak (these ever increasing requirements for PSU power seeme to be based on the slow upward curve of power demand from a while ago as we all moved up from 300W PSUs to more meaty demands - that trend has been countered by die shrinks and conservative designs actually lowering power requirements recently). If you got a 500W PSU then you'd still be unlikely to ask it for more than 300W of juice (which is a very generous overhead to ensure you are always doing just fine). The 550W PSU from the two brands I mentioned above are in the $50-60 price range right now on NewEgg so you can easily avoid spending $100 on a PSU to keep costs down without going YumCha or buying anything even remotely close to marginal for your expected power requirements.

#14 Posted by jakob187 (21503 posts) -

Fuck both of those.

Get a 386.

#15 Posted by Jrinswand (1692 posts) -

I kind of went on a crazy computer parts buying binge yesterday. I bought the i5-3570k CPU and paired it with a Biostar TZ77B motherboard. I don't know anything about Biostar, but the reviews seemed to be pretty solid. I also bought a Corsair 600W PSU, a Hitachi 1TB HDD, and an 8GB stick of G.Skill DDR3-1600 RAM. The reason I decided to go with the i5-3570k and the Z77 motherboard is that I already have a PCI-E 3.0 compatible video card in the HD 7850, so I figured I might as well make the best of it.
 
Hopefully all these parts will last me at least another 4 years. At the very least, it's all going to be a huge upgrade from my current AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ CPU that is bottlenecking the hell out of my video card.