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#1 Edited by pyrodactyl (2029 posts) -

On a idle thumbs (maybe even the dota today podcast) a few weeks ago, someone brought up the fact that many people who don't play MOBAs seem to cultivate an irrational hate toward them.

So, do you hate MOBAs and if so, why?

I'll start:

Even if I maintain a morbid interest in this genre of games by listening to the dota today podcast and watching the daily dota, I've always had a sense of unease that prevented me from actually playing them. The same sense that kept me away from MMOs(for the most part). That sense is triggered when Brad and others say stuff like ''I would be happy playing only this game for the rest of my life'' or ''I played for 13 hours straight last Sunday''.

Let's take dota 2 as an example. Even if I never played it I know it's a good game. It might even be great or awesome but it's certainly not of a high enough quality to relegate every other game or other thing you might want to do on a Sunday to a ''Meh'' status. No, dota 2 a good game but it's also very good at massaging a certain part of the brain and I don't like my brain massaged in that particular way.

#2 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

I don't. Just Dota 2. But being a moba has nothing to do with that.

#3 Posted by pyrodactyl (2029 posts) -

@canteu said:

I don't. Just Dota 2. But being a moba has nothing to do with that.

Not sure why you would hate dota 2 and not, say, league of legends.

#4 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@pyrodactyl: Because one is fun. The other is not.

I'm not dismissive of it however. It's good that people like it because it brings interest to the genre. I just don't like that game because of that game, not any external factors.

#5 Posted by jediknight00719 (140 posts) -

i think Brad said that if he was in a situation to pick one game to play rest of his life dota would be the only game he need cause of the depth it offers. If you play thousands of hours you still find the game fun vs some other games in which playing that much causes you to lose interest over time.

of course there are ton of other games that are good that warrant us to play but its cool to have one game you can keep coming back to and know you are going to be challenged and is fun.

i myself am just starting to get into it. I think a lot of the Moba hate comes from the high learning curve/difficulty and the scariness of a hostile community. I remember the hostile community really detracted me but i'm trying to play with 3-4 friends to avoid the community as i learn

#6 Posted by Giantstalker (1648 posts) -

Because most people take them way too seriously for it to be any fun.

I die in Battlefield, nobody cares but me. I die in League or Dota, and suddenly it's a four man rage-fueled inquisition on my playing habits.

#7 Posted by mwng (935 posts) -

I was in the group that used Warcraft 3 for tower defense, rather than DotA.

I don't really hate MOBAs, they just don't interest me. Maybe I'm missing out, I dunno, I have enough stuff to play as it is.

#8 Posted by Drakoji (222 posts) -

What makes you hate DOTA2?

I can say exactly why I hate LoL.

#9 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -
#10 Edited by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -
#11 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@cloudenvy: I can't think of any other reason. He must hate fun. That has to be it!

(psssst it's fun to poke fun at dota players, they're super serial you know?)

#12 Posted by BIGJEFFREY (5028 posts) -

Because i've never played one but i can tell that i'd fucking hate them.

#13 Posted by Superkenon (1433 posts) -

It's easy to understand why MOBAs are repulsive to anyone outside their sphere of influence. They've got a larger barrier to entry than most games on account of being, essentially, a sub-genre -- that is, the way you play them doesn't make much sense if you're not already familiar or comfortable with RTS games. And then of course it's a long, time-consuming game with rounds longer than a lot of people want to deal with, and a necessary commitment to learn the various match-ups if you want to be formidable in the least. On top of that, you've got the community who have definitely done a lot to earn their reputation as being intolerant to new players... which is the most important factor of all, here. It's hard to get into a game when you're constantly being shouted down for stuff you can't possibly know yet.

Blah blah blah, moreso than perhaps any other genre, MOBAs can't be played casually. You have to either be way into it, or stay away. Hence, the great divide.

For the record I have no problem with MOBAs. I'm in that sweet spot where I was introduced to them during WarCraft 3, so it's an easy transition for me.

#14 Edited by churrific (479 posts) -

@giantstalker said:

Because most people take them way too seriously for it to be any fun.

I die in Battlefield, nobody cares but me. I die in League or Dota, and suddenly it's a four man rage-fueled inquisition on my playing habits.

That's probably because BF is more akin to baseball, where it's closer to the idea of it being a solo game within a team concept. And mobas are closer to say football or hockey, where all the pieces really should work well together on an equal level in order to be successful.

#15 Posted by Superkenon (1433 posts) -

@canteu said:

@cloudenvy: I can't think of any other reason. He must hate fun. That has to be it!

(psssst it's fun to poke fun at dota players, they're super serial you know?)

As a prime example for anyone wanting to make a point about the MOBA community... when they can't even get along with each other, what hope does an outsider have?

#16 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@superkenon: Jokes are tough. Also you have it wrong. Dota players hate LoL players due to some kind of superiority complex. LoL players generally don't give a shit what you do with your free time. At least the people I know.

#17 Posted by alwaysbebombing (1585 posts) -

Because most people take them way too seriously for it to be any fun.

I die in Battlefield, nobody cares but me. I die in League or Dota, and suddenly it's a four man rage-fueled inquisition on my playing habits.

I don't know what MOBA stands for, nor have I never played DOTA or LOL. But for some reason "man rage-fueled inquisition" made me laugh really hard.

#18 Edited by ProfessorEss (7368 posts) -

Because I don't understand the nuance of player versus player combat.

I know my way around most of the game but one on one the AI beats me almost every time - to the point that I've never felt like actually going online with it.

#19 Edited by Rafaelfc (1347 posts) -

The highly competitive nature of it that drives people to being complete dicks online against their own team members is a HUGE turn off.

Also, I am really bad at RTS's (I really love them in concept, but for some reason, I am incapable of being even decent at them) and MOBAs have just enough real time strategy in them to really throw me off.

The whole one TRUE map business is beyond retarded.

The game saying "pwned" in it's text, in 2013... picardfacepalm.jpeg

All that said, I don't necessarily hate it, I just don't engage in it. And also find these types of games really boring to watch, if you are not super into them.

#20 Edited by Superkenon (1433 posts) -

@canteu: Eh. Everything insufferable about the stereotypical Dota player, the LoL player was pioneering first (by virtue of their game being "first", of course). I've no reason to doubt your anecdotal experience, but the snippiness definitely goes both ways.

It isn't a Dota vs LoL thing, anyway. Both games just have a really serious following that breeds this territorial attitude in Joe Internet, and unfortunately, it really stinks up the whole thing for anyone observing from afar.

#21 Edited by CircleNine (381 posts) -

Most of the people I know who play Dota 2 never shut up about Dota 2 which has really moved me from being apathetic about it to an active dislike of it. Also I don't like being screamed at over the internet for 20-40 minutes at a time so a game where teamwork is really necessary and each game is a relatively large time commitment (as opposed to dropping in and out of something like TF2 for 10 minutes at a time or a single player game where I can just alt tab in and out at my own leisure) isn't a really big draw for me.

#22 Edited by EXTomar (4724 posts) -

Why ask why? People hate and like things for all sorts of reasons. Trying to make sense of something that is fundamentally irrational is futile.

#23 Edited by thebunnyhunter (1419 posts) -

I hate DOTA 2 because of Brad's constant talk of it and thus his disdain towads other games.

#24 Posted by Nodima (1202 posts) -

I hate them because when Dota 2 randomly showed up in my Steam library last week or whatever, I thought oh interesting I guess I'll see what all the fuss is about. I had some fun with that Lord of the Rings Guardians game on PS+.

Oh wait, my desktop is only running Snow Leopard, so I guess I can't play the game there.

Oh wait, my Mountain Lion laptop was built in 2007 so this game has no idea how to run on my computer.

Hmmm, this game always looks so simple to me, why can't I play it on this computer that can handle Civ IV and Civ V and Half-Life 2 and Hotline Miami?

Oh wait, because it's PC gaming. And fuck PC gaming.

#25 Posted by JasonR86 (9705 posts) -

The word 'hate' is thrown around way too easily. Dislike doesn't mean hate.

#26 Posted by pyrodactyl (2029 posts) -

@extomar said:

Why ask why? People hate and like things for all sorts of reasons. Trying to make sense of something that is fundamentally irrational is futile.

Is it really irrational?

#27 Posted by TobbRobb (4646 posts) -

@canteu: Except you apparently, but have fun being needlessly annoyed.

#28 Posted by Missacre (566 posts) -

Oh god, I can't stand MOBAs. They're just filled with children that get mad at every mistake you make. If I had my way, I'd shut down both LoL and Dota communities and servers. The world would probably be better off without them.

#29 Edited by Juzie (168 posts) -

I like DOTA 2 but since kids just rage at you when someone they fed kills too kill you even though there's nothing you can do about it at that point it makes the game unbearable. I partly blame LoL because DOTA wasn't near as bad as DOTA 2 is. I prefer to just play fighting games so I can whoop peoples butt and they can tell themselves it was lag instead of blaming me.

#30 Posted by kerse (2113 posts) -

I hate them because I don't enjoy playing them, its that simple. I understand why people like them and it doesn't bother me, I'm sure they're fun for those that do like them, but not everyone enjoys every genre of video game.

#31 Edited by EXTomar (4724 posts) -

@pyrodactyl said:

@extomar said:

Why ask why? People hate and like things for all sorts of reasons. Trying to make sense of something that is fundamentally irrational is futile.

Is it really irrational?

The reason why people like or dislike something often has no reason. Example: You wrote "...I've always had a sense of unease that prevented me from actually playing them..." Why do you feel uneasy? You just do and it entirely irrational.

There is nothing wrong with being irrational about some things, especially feelings and matter of tastes.

#32 Posted by Veektarius (4825 posts) -

Standard moba games last too long and the opening phases in particular are tedious. I have an attention span for 20 minute multiplayer matches MAX. I don't mind dropping out of a game that lasts longer, but if I do that in dota, I fuck my team.

#33 Edited by Spoonman671 (4635 posts) -

I don't hate them. Dota is more complex a game than I'm interested in getting involved in at the moment, but Guardians of Middle-earth is pretty rad.

#34 Posted by CrazyBagMan (842 posts) -
@extomar said:

Why ask why? People hate and like things for all sorts of reasons. Trying to make sense of something that is fundamentally irrational is futile.

Why think about anything? People have different opinions and backgrounds so trying to understand most things is tedious and pointless. So much of why people do what they do is irrational, so why bother.

#35 Edited by Nicked (248 posts) -

I definitely don't hate them and I really enjoy Daily Dota, but I think a fair criticism of them is that they are needlessly complex. 100+ characters, tons of items, timers for runes and Roshan (sp?), different builds for the 100+ characters. They aren't what I'd call "elegant" games. I'm not saying they aren't compelling games, but the severe obfuscation they employ doesn't interest me in a competitive multiplayer game. A hard to learn, hard to master sort of thing which understandably appeals to a lot of people.

Plus you've got matches that are hour-long commitments, a sometimes jerkish playerbase, and a fairly tedious 10-minute opening where not much happens.

So it's like: I'd rather play Trackmania, but I'd rather watch Dota 2. Or: I played way more CoD 2 than CoD 4. Obviously I don't speak for everybody though.

#36 Posted by DeShawn2ks (1054 posts) -

@pyrodactyl: I tried a few and dont care for them. I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate them. I hate more a lot of the people who play them that take video games way way way to serious. Kind of like some people in the demon souls/dark souls crowd. Don't tell me what hard or what real gaming is. I beat Battletoads when I was a kid and that is without hitting the warp on last leg of speeder bike level.

#37 Posted by mpgeist (607 posts) -

I've never played one and frankly they scare the shit out of me. So intimidating for some reason.

#38 Posted by alanm26v5 (449 posts) -

I don't hate MOBAs but I've tried to get into LoL a few times but always failed to keep interest up. The idea of 100 characters with their own abilities and personalities that play differently is super interesting to me. I always though it was weird that characters don't have progression persistence between games but there's a somewhat complex leveling and item upgrade system, but I get why it's like that. I've never been into PVP much either. I guess a story based ARPG with 100 characters would be cool if done right, but Marvel Heroes was kind of that and that felt boring. Hearing that Dota 2 is more complex than LoL has pretty much prevented me from ever trying it out. Maybe I'll check out Blizzard Allstars if that ever comes out.

Also I know it's not a MOBA specific problem but the thought of getting harassed for being new/learning in public games isn't something I'd want to endure. Maybe if a bunch of people I knew were all learning and playing together it would be different, but also there are just so many other games to play that I don't know how long I could commit to one anymore.

#39 Edited by ExplodeMode (852 posts) -

It seems like something that is hard to get into and being beaten into the ground. Which makes it seem uninviting and uncool.

The explosion of streamers and the esports scene eclipsing everything else just makes it all seem artificial, like you're surrounded by pod people or something.

#40 Edited by EXTomar (4724 posts) -

@extomar said:

Why ask why? People hate and like things for all sorts of reasons. Trying to make sense of something that is fundamentally irrational is futile.

Why think about anything? People have different opinions and backgrounds so trying to understand most things is tedious and pointless. So much of why people do what they do is irrational, so why bother.

It is fine to think about a great many things but it requires asking the right questions.

A good question to ask: What are the bad features of a MOBA that drives people away?

A poor question to ask: What do you/me/dog/carrot/rock hate about MOBAs?

#41 Edited by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

Please stop using MOBA as a genre term. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena means nothing. DotA is just as much of a MOBA as Call of Duty, Halo, and Unreal Tournament. I like the genre of game you are describing (ARTS) but just please people, don't use MOBA as a genre. It's meaningless.

#42 Edited by DarthOrange (3862 posts) -

Because Brad likes them and he gave DmC a 5 and RE6 a 2.

#43 Edited by ajamafalous (11993 posts) -

@canteu: It is hilarious how hard you try to troll Dota in every related topic.

#44 Edited by joshwent (2204 posts) -

@davidwitten22: Every word that exists only has meaning because we agree that it does. Lighten up.

#45 Posted by CornBREDX (5276 posts) -

I dont. I play DOTA 2 occasionally. I mainly started doing it to see what it was about, but I get it and I think it's kind of fun.

I hate LOL though. To many trolls play that game. They are in DOTA 2 also but less frequent.

#46 Edited by Subjugation (4720 posts) -

I don't. I enjoy Dota 2 quite a lot.

#47 Posted by MonetaryDread (2030 posts) -

I am not a fan of games where there are set roles and you are not allowed to play how you want. I never want to have to read a FAQ about proper build orders. I do not want to make sure I know the nuances of a hundred different characters. I do not want to play a game where my failures destroy the fun for everyone on my team.

If there was a single-player lords management game (league of legends or DOTA 2 bot matches do not count), then I guess I might give it a shot.

#48 Posted by bananaz (256 posts) -

Because most people take them way too seriously for it to be any fun.

I die in Battlefield, nobody cares but me. I die in League or Dota, and suddenly it's a four man rage-fueled inquisition on my playing habits.

This. Playing a round of League can be fun, but it's stressful. If you screw something up early, it snowballs like crazy.

#49 Posted by Beforet (2921 posts) -

Nah, brah. I just don't think I have the time/energy to get addicted. I also remember hearing a lot of yang about the community a while back, so I'd be hesitant to even try it out now.

#50 Edited by Aetheldod (3579 posts) -

Cuz sport games cant be the only thing that I hate D: that would be unfair.

Joking aside .... if all mobas are like Monday Night Shodown (or whatever the game is called) then ugh ... I just find it very boring and all that lane things and endless back and forth for huge chunks of minutes ... its like watching soccer D: