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#1 Posted by TheAdmin (703 posts) -

I feel like every follow up article about a topic he writes (skull girls, women in gaming, etc) starts with him condescendingly talking about the poorly educated masses and their comments. Perhaps he doesn't mean to come off that way, but it does sound insulting whenever people disagree with his point of view - no matter how the comment is written.

I think it would be wise for him to remember a few things:

1. It's the Internet. Anonymous people say stupid things.

2. The people that are reading these topics aren't always well versed on the topic and are generally in a younger demo. Cut 12 year old Joey some slack.

3. they're video games. We can be passionate about games, but at the end of the day, they're just games.

4. Take that attitude for peers in the industry and those in the industries the topics are about, but not for the "armchairs".

Don't get me wrong, I like Patrick, his writing and his appearances. This is not an attack on him personally or the content he produces. It's more a request for the reaction to those stories. I don't think I'm alone in this, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

#2 Posted by SirOptimusPrime (1854 posts) -

I think he's picking the easiest way to start off his articles. It might not be the best way, but it's a really simple segue to go from "well, I didn't expect this!" to the article itself. Though I think it'd be better to intro with something else, I don't know shit about writing proper articles so yeah.

#3 Posted by audioBusting (1298 posts) -

I don't really think it's insulting or offensive, but I gotta say that when Patrick writes a response to these internet comment stuff I feel like there's really no point to it. It's nothing new and it feels a bit self-serving and defensive. Also it kinda encourages some people to be even more defensive about it.. like that one commenter in the Skullgirls article saying 150k is still ridiculous (which I agree) getting so many comments of "did you even read the article??"

#4 Posted by Sweep (8534 posts) -

The most dangerous thing you can ever do is acknowledge the insanities written on anonymous message boards.

Moderator
#5 Posted by Video_Game_King (34571 posts) -

@theadmin said:

Cut 12 year old Joey some slack.

Isn't our demographic older than that, though? Cut 12 year old Joey some slack on GameSpot, but give ol' Joey some shit on Giant Bomb. It'll toughen him up.

#6 Edited by Scooper (7882 posts) -

He comes off as someone who's so opinionated and that he will iterate those opinions to you like they're the most important thing. You'll notice that for instance in a Bombcast or a Quicklook you can tell when someone like Vinny has a alternate opinion to something but will relax and let other speak, letting others have the stage to say what they want. It's considerate. I don't ever sense that with Patrick. It's really annoying because I don't really care for his content or anything really and his personality can be rather grinding. The articles come off super wankery sometimes where it's like "Here's the well-mannered opinions of some game developers and women, but as this is fair here's also a couple of nit-picked blurbs from some kids on a forum or whatever".

It's like he loves settings off fires and every now and then he'll pop up and throw a can of hairspray in there and then run away again. It's funny the first time, but come on!

Having another article start off responding to the comments from the previous is a dick move because he knows he has the largest platform and therefore the last word.

#7 Edited by BisonHero (5650 posts) -

I'd quote Video Game King, but I'm on my phone and you can't reply or quote people still >:(. Anyway, yeah, 12 year old Joey, if he comes to GB at all, probably comes exclusively for the video content. It's why the video comments are full of despicable users with the default user pic who only make a comment like once every week or two. I'm pretty sure the average age on the forums and in article comments is at least SLIGHTLY higher than 12 year old Joey.

#8 Posted by Ramone (2931 posts) -

His comments were directed at NeoGAF not GB users.

#10 Posted by Subjugation (4693 posts) -

I think Giant Bomb is generally older than 12 year old Joey. We've had several age polls and it seems like the vast majority of people here fall between early twenties and mid thirties. Obviously it is easy enough to lie on those polls, but I don't see why you would.

But I agree that acknowledging the inanity of comments on the internet it neither productive nor worthwhile. Sometimes it's okay to call people out, but that doesn't mean that it will accomplish anything.

#11 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6077 posts) -

You're all (criminal) scum. That's why.

#12 Posted by TheHumanDove (2393 posts) -

@theadmin said:

I feel like every follow up article about a topic he writes (skull girls, women in gaming, etc) starts with him condescendingly talking about the poorly educated masses and their comments. Perhaps he doesn't mean to come off that way, but it does sound insulting whenever people disagree with his point of view - no matter how the comment is written.

I think it would be wise for him to remember a few things:

1. It's the Internet. Anonymous people say stupid things.

2. The people that are reading these topics aren't always well versed on the topic and are generally in a younger demo. Cut 12 year old Joey some slack.

3. they're video games. We can be passionate about games, but at the end of the day, they're just games.

4. Take that attitude for peers in the industry and those in the industries the topics are about, but not for the "armchairs".

Don't get me wrong, I like Patrick, his writing and his appearances. This is not an attack on him personally or the content he produces. It's more a request for the reaction to those stories. I don't think I'm alone in this, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Or 5. People have different opinions than him. We should probably add that option, since it's the most correct.

#13 Posted by ripelivejam (2771 posts) -
@scooper said:

He comes off as someone who's so opinionated and that he will iterate those opinions to you like they're the most important thing. You'll notice that for instance in a Bombcast or a Quicklook you can tell when someone like Vinny has a alternate opinion to something but will relax and let other speak, letting others have the stage to say what they want. It's considerate. I don't ever sense that with Patrick. It's really annoying because I don't really care for his content or anything really and his personality can be rather grinding. The articles come off super wankery sometimes where it's like "Here's the well-mannered opinions of some game developers and women, but as this is fair here's also a couple of nit-picked blurbs from some kids on a forum or whatever".

It's like he loves settings off fires and every now and then he'll pop up and throw a can of hairspray in there and then run away again. It's funny the first time, but come on!

Having another article start off responding to the comments from the previous is a dick move because he knows he has the largest platform and therefore the last word.

you took a thread about one thing and assumed it was about another, that's your problem.

also patrick gives people plenty of room to talk. you just choose to notice when he does speak up.

#14 Posted by Morbid_Coffee (952 posts) -

Patrick hasn't been on the internet that long because he's like, what, 12 or something?

#15 Posted by StarvingGamer (7546 posts) -

I dunno, in the case of Skullgirls you want to give people the benefit of the doubt because man, that Gaf thread struck some new record for internet stupidity.

#16 Posted by JasonR86 (9363 posts) -

Just don't read the articles anymore.

#17 Edited by MariachiMacabre (6935 posts) -

I dunno, in the case of Skullgirls you want to give people the benefit of the doubt because man, that Gaf thread struck some new record for internet stupidity.

Fucking seriously.

#18 Posted by mrfluke (4834 posts) -

\

His comments were directed at NeoGAF not GB users.

@jasonr86 said:

Just don't read the articles anymore.

#19 Edited by Unilad (478 posts) -

@scooper: Are you saying Patrick is a troll?

Nah I'm kidding man, I actually agree fully with you. I really like the way (like you said) Vinny has an opinion but will listen to others and maybe even change his mind. It's a sign of maturity. Patrick's behaviour comes off as ultimately immature. Ryan and Jeff are both as opinionated as Patrick, but have the maturity to not 'drum home' their opinion till everyone else succumbs to the battery.




#20 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3323 posts) -

@theadmin said:

I feel like every follow up article about a topic he writes (skull girls, women in gaming, etc) starts with him condescendingly talking about the poorly educated masses and their comments. Perhaps he doesn't mean to come off that way, but it does sound insulting whenever people disagree with his point of view - no matter how the comment is written.

I think that Patrick goes a lot of good work for this site, but he often comes off as far less of an actual journalist, and more of an editorialist. He frequently tells only one side of an argument, which is pretty much the last thing that anyone who considers themselves to be a journalist should do. Even editorialists can tell both sides to a story and then pick one. Often, Patrick seems to refuse even that basic courtesy.

#21 Edited by EuanDewar (4507 posts) -

he needs to shave i mean fuckin jesus christ

it looks drawn on

#22 Edited by Akyho (1549 posts) -

I dunno, in the case of Skullgirls you want to give people the benefit of the doubt because man, that Gaf thread struck some new record for internet stupidity.

Quoting for truth.

I will add, folks remember neogaf is a very closed forum. Its not like GB. The main barrier of entry on Neogaf is the buisness email portion that people with college emails slide in with.

So with this very high barrier of entry for the likes of me and he rest of us. Neogaf is safe haven for the pro's of the games buisness to talk to each other.

So to have many people from lows of college kids studying game makeing to people working in game makeing to start throwing stones at the skullgirl devs over the very logical pricing of making a character. Is the shocker.

#23 Posted by Miketakon (512 posts) -

@ramone said:

His comments were directed at NeoGAF not GB users.

WELP CASE CLOSED

#24 Edited by BBQBram (2164 posts) -

he needs to shave i mean fuckin jesus christ

it looks drawn on

Give it time.

#25 Edited by moffattron9000 (349 posts) -

His faith in humanity has not been entirely destroyed yet. Give it time.

#26 Posted by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

I cancelled my sub-renewal after his antics became too much for me. I'm willing to re-sub if he calms down and actually writes news instead of copy/pasting links and white-knighting "feminists" in articles.

FLAMESHIELD ON

#27 Posted by metalsnakezero (2267 posts) -

I dunno, in the case of Skullgirls you want to give people the benefit of the doubt because man, that Gaf thread struck some new record for internet stupidity.

I have to go with that because man, too many people are living under rocks to see the full picture and aren't fully understanding the situation properly.

#29 Posted by Nightriff (4329 posts) -

Because he thinks he is better than everyone and that we all must agree with him or we are pigs with our heads buried in the ground and don't deserve to live because we don't agree with his agenda.

#30 Edited by Deusx (1879 posts) -

Because he's still very young and comments get to him. He's a human.

#31 Posted by ArbitraryWater (10981 posts) -

The internet hasn't ruined him yet.

#32 Posted by ripelivejam (2771 posts) -

so many false statements in this thread i don't know where to begin.

i'm sad that a thread that is cordially and constructively critical of patrick (in a manner that is perfectly acceptable if aimed at any other member of the bombcrew) can't help but dissolve into ridiculous exaggeration and tired insult. he's quite deferential; jeff is about 100x more bullheaded than he ever is, yet he's perfectly acceptable to you rabble. also i think it's entirely fine to take even statements born of the internet at face value and call them out. they're supposedly inviting some sort of discourse, and patrick (contrary to your beliefs) is entirely open to discussing various subjects, even if it is pretty much a dead end. and i think the beard has promise.

#33 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3323 posts) -

i'm sad that a thread that is cordially and constructively critical of patrick (in a manner that is perfectly acceptable if aimed at any other member of the bombcrew) can't help but dissolve into ridiculous exaggeration and tired insult. he's quite deferential; jeff is about 100x more bullheaded than he ever is, yet he's perfectly acceptable to you rabble.

To be fair, Jeff doesn't write one-sided articles about heated topics such as sexism, and then reduce the opposition essentially to assholes tweeting that *insert female name here* should get back in the kitchen.

If Patrick wants to be the social issues guy, that's fine. But if he's only giving one side of the story, then I'm not going to be surprised when I see people hating on him as they do.

For my constructively critical opinion of Patrick, see the first post I made in this thread.

#35 Posted by Gaff (1482 posts) -

@audiobusting said:

I don't really think it's insulting or offensive, but I gotta say that when Patrick writes a response to these internet comment stuff I feel like there's really no point to it. It's nothing new and it feels a bit self-serving and defensive. Also it kinda encourages some people to be even more defensive about it.. like that one commenter in the Skullgirls article saying 150k is still ridiculous (which I agree) getting so many comments of "did you even read the article??"

The ENTIRE article was explicitly about why $150,000 is not ridiculous. Did you even read the article?

@spaceinsomniac said:

@ripelivejam said:

i'm sad that a thread that is cordially and constructively critical of patrick (in a manner that is perfectly acceptable if aimed at any other member of the bombcrew) can't help but dissolve into ridiculous exaggeration and tired insult. he's quite deferential; jeff is about 100x more bullheaded than he ever is, yet he's perfectly acceptable to you rabble.

To be fair, Jeff doesn't write one-sided articles about heated topics such as sexism, and then reduce the opposition essentially to assholes tweeting that *insert female name here* should get back in the kitchen.

If Patrick wants to be the social issues guy, that's fine. But if he's only giving one side of the story, then I'm not going to be surprised when I see people hating on him as they do.

For my constructively critical opinion of Patrick, see the first post I made in this thread.

Misogynists don't deserve a fair shake.

Yes, they are.

Also, when has "real" journalism ever been "fair and balanced"?

#36 Posted by Milkman (16218 posts) -

Reading this thread made me want to shove a screwdriver into my brain.

#37 Edited by casper_ (882 posts) -

no one asked me to but im gonna write down some things i've thought about patrick for a while

i don't know man he comes off as pretty soap-boxy to me on a lot of sensitive issues (which i generally agree with him on to some extent) and i think he doesn't handle them with the kind of gentleness that they deserve. sometimes he kind of blasts opinions out in a way that makes me wonder if these are in fact his own original opinions or recitations of views which he has adopted from someone else or views that have been entirely influenced by the zeitgeist.( it seems this way sometimes as he explains game genres,mechanics etc. as well.)

that said, though i sometimes find him and his occasional monologues a bit frustrating he seems like an alright guy, brings a lot of games to the table that would otherwise never be covered on this site and writes some very interesting articles.

#38 Edited by The_Reflection (239 posts) -
@scooper said:

He comes off as someone who's so opinionated and that he will iterate those opinions to you like they're the most important thing. You'll notice that for instance in a Bombcast or a Quicklook you can tell when someone like Vinny has a alternate opinion to something but will relax and let other speak, letting others have the stage to say what they want. It's considerate. I don't ever sense that with Patrick. It's really annoying because I don't really care for his content or anything really and his personality can be rather grinding. The articles come off super wankery sometimes where it's like "Here's the well-mannered opinions of some game developers and women, but as this is fair here's also a couple of nit-picked blurbs from some kids on a forum or whatever".

It's like he loves settings off fires and every now and then he'll pop up and throw a can of hairspray in there and then run away again. It's funny the first time, but come on!

Having another article start off responding to the comments from the previous is a dick move because he knows he has the largest platform and therefore the last word.

you took a thread about one thing and assumed it was about another, that's your problem.

also patrick gives people plenty of room to talk. you just choose to notice when he does speak up.

yeah, Patrick lets people have their word in. If you want to point to someone who just shouts his opinion then puts his fingers in his ears and wont let anyone have a word in edge wise, listen to Brad in any end of the year podcast, 2011 especially.

#39 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3323 posts) -

@nekrokreuz said:

@spaceinsomniac said:

@ripelivejam said:

i'm sad that a thread that is cordially and constructively critical of patrick (in a manner that is perfectly acceptable if aimed at any other member of the bombcrew) can't help but dissolve into ridiculous exaggeration and tired insult. he's quite deferential; jeff is about 100x more bullheaded than he ever is, yet he's perfectly acceptable to you rabble.

To be fair, Jeff doesn't write one-sided articles about heated topics such as sexism, and then reduce the opposition essentially to assholes tweeting that *insert female name here* should get back in the kitchen.

If Patrick wants to be the social issues guy, that's fine. But if he's only giving one side of the story, then I'm not going to be surprised when I see people hating on him as they do.

For my constructively critical opinion of Patrick, see the first post I made in this thread.

Misogynists don't deserve a fair shake.

Yes, they are.

Bullshit. If you think that you can blanket everyone opposed to the logic used in Patrick's articles concerning sexism as misogynists, that's no better than blanketing all people who call themselves feminists as engaging in misandry.

Or do you really believe that...

"Perhaps the biggest failure of Aliens: Colonial Marines is the amazing lack of females." ?

For an expanded argument that I just posted in another thread, keep reading:

How about Mass Effect. Developers have revealed that only 18% of gamers who played ME2 used a female character. Some interesting facts to note about this:

Mass Effect features a heavy emphasis on characters, dialogue, relationships, and even a little romance.

ME encourages multiple playthroughs, and even has an achievement dedicated to finishing the game twice.

For those who have played as both, the voice performance by the female voice actress has been said by many to be superior to the male voice actor. As someone who switched to fem Shepard himself, I couldn't agree more.

Finally, let's think about this from a male / female perspective. How many male players do you think picked fem shepard? They could have done so because they they wanted to stare at her ass all game long, or perhaps they long for better female protagonists. Either way. Now, how many female players do you think picked male Shephard, even with the 1000s of other games staring male protagonists, and even with the relationship / romance aspect of the game?

And despite all this evidence to the contrary, Partrick still links to an article claiming that game developers don't know what they're doing, that the next Gears of War would sell just as much if it had a non-sexualized female protagonist, and he calls it "worth reading." Even worse, he promotes the article in the most sensationalist way possible, with...

"Perhaps the biggest failure of Aliens: Colonial Marines is the amazing lack of females."

What the fuck is this, Kotaku?

All this, despite the fact that the campaign does include at least one main character who is female--not that you would get that impression from Patrick or the article--and the fact that there are several female skins for multiplayer.

Just the other day I saw someone make a highly belligerent post in reply to someone who DARED to suggest that that maybe the male / female breakdown of "hardcore gamers" is close to perhaps 75% / 25%. That poster was accused of pulling those number out of his ass. Sorry people, but currently you can only WISH for 25%. I'm not even going to guess how low the actual numbers are, but I will join you all in wishing it was a lot higher.

#40 Posted by BestUsernameEver (4866 posts) -

*Why do internet commenters complain about Patrick so much?

#42 Posted by Sploder (917 posts) -

Cos it's cute and innocent, like "I'm 12 and wat is this"

#43 Posted by Unilad (478 posts) -

@milkman: Do it and film it. You'll be famous.



but dead.

#44 Posted by audioBusting (1298 posts) -

@nekrokreuz said:

@audiobusting said:

I don't really think it's insulting or offensive, but I gotta say that when Patrick writes a response to these internet comment stuff I feel like there's really no point to it. It's nothing new and it feels a bit self-serving and defensive. Also it kinda encourages some people to be even more defensive about it.. like that one commenter in the Skullgirls article saying 150k is still ridiculous (which I agree) getting so many comments of "did you even read the article??"

The ENTIRE article was explicitly about why $150,000 is not ridiculous. Did you even read the article?

I think $150k is still a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a fictional video game character, knowing where the money goes doesn't stop it being ridiculous. Same thing goes with a lot of other things, I think. Knowing how Kobe Beef is produced doesn't stop them from being ridiculously expensive to me. (Like Patrick said in Worth Reading I think we "have every right to think it’s unacceptable that game development has become so expensive today".) It's just how I feel in the end.

That aside, it's the attitude that I have a problem with. Just because someone has that opinion, people jump in and imply that they are too lazy to read the article before commenting. It doesn't matter if they're right; there's really no point in replying that person if they actually didn't read the article anyway. Replying to those comments doesn't really add to the discussion and just make people become offended at one another. Patrick makes some good points in this week's Worth Reading (like Dave Lang's tweet etc.), but he could've done it without pointing a finger at NeoGAF, I think. I know everybody means well but sometimes I think we need to be more tactful.

I hope this clears my opinions on the matter a bit more.. no offense intended to you in particular.

#45 Edited by Phished0ne (2430 posts) -

@nekrokreuz said:

@spaceinsomniac said:

@ripelivejam said:

i'm sad that a thread that is cordially and constructively critical of patrick (in a manner that is perfectly acceptable if aimed at any other member of the bombcrew) can't help but dissolve into ridiculous exaggeration and tired insult. he's quite deferential; jeff is about 100x more bullheaded than he ever is, yet he's perfectly acceptable to you rabble.

To be fair, Jeff doesn't write one-sided articles about heated topics such as sexism, and then reduce the opposition essentially to assholes tweeting that *insert female name here* should get back in the kitchen.

If Patrick wants to be the social issues guy, that's fine. But if he's only giving one side of the story, then I'm not going to be surprised when I see people hating on him as they do.

For my constructively critical opinion of Patrick, see the first post I made in this thread.

Misogynists don't deserve a fair shake.

Yes, they are.

Bullshit. If you think that you can blanket everyone opposed to the logic used in Patrick's articles concerning sexism as misogynists, that's no better than blanketing all people who call themselves feminists as engaging in misandry.

Or do you really believe that...

"Perhaps the biggest failure of Aliens: Colonial Marines is the amazing lack of females." ?

Basically this.

My problem isnt with patrick per say but that the articles he writes are too inflammatory. I applaud him for wanting to start real discussions about things, but its like trying to foster a discussion between a lion and gazelle. I couldn't defend the industries ability to use booth models(dont get me started about calling them booth babes) as perfectly fine because it works for them to market that way, and because there are women who are willing to do that job, without being browbeaten about how I am a sexist piece of trash, no matter how much explaining to the contrary i did. In most cases there is at least ONE argument for the other side that needs to be heard and considered, but that tends to not happen. I think the tone of his articles tend to exacerbate that problem. Although I'm sure he is trying his best to get the community honestly discussing things.

It defeats the purpose of having articles intended to foster discussion between two sides on the internet because in the vast majority of cases people just want to either have a big party about how they are in the right, or get out their megaphones and yell at the other side about how wrong they are.

#46 Edited by Funkydupe (3293 posts) -

Why aren't players given the option to play as a female soldier in Counter-strike, Call of Duty and Battlefield?

#47 Posted by DystopiaX (5240 posts) -

\

His comments were directed at NeoGAF not GB users.

I don't see how that makes it any better.

#48 Edited by Jimbo (9708 posts) -

Puberty can be a confusing time.

#49 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@bbqbram said:

@euandewar said:

he needs to shave i mean fuckin jesus christ

it looks drawn on

Give it time.

Hard to shave with your wrong hand when you got a broken collar bone.

#50 Posted by FunkasaurasRex (847 posts) -

@milkman said:

Reading this thread made me want to shove a screwdriver into my brain.

This comment could pretty much apply for any thread about Patrick or women/sexism in games over the past few months.