The parts of Natal that were most fascinating to me were the Star Trekkian (is that a word? IS NOW, BITCHES!) applications. The voice recognition of signing on, recognizing me and signing into my appropriate avatar is appealing to me. I could see a very compelling game built around the Milo type of technology, and not even as AI. Imagine playing in a game like Heavy Rain as a detective, and instead of interviewing people using dialog trees, you actually talked to the TV and it responded. I'm not saying the technology is there yet, but the ability to interact with it is pretty fascinating as part of a larger experience.
"Traditional" games are not likely going anywhere. Despite what executives might think, the idea of "I push this button, and something cooresponds on screen" is a fairly simple concept. And the reason so many people don't play video games is simply because that mentality wasn't instilled in them at an earlier age. But like the Playstation Eye and the Wii Motion Control, I see Natal creating fascinating new gaming experiences that meld with those existing forms of play, not replacing them. The whole "You are the controller" philosophy is the fad, not the hardware itself.
Why Project Natal is bullshit and people applauding it are dicks
First of all, this makes it so you can control your character in game, FULLY. It will probably make use of props, such as guns, swords, bats, etc, which could easily have rumble and the like built in. This is not just a motion gimmick. this can be used for not only serious, but AWESOME games. Full games. Imagine the climbing in Assassins creed if you could fully control your body. Or Mirror's Edge. Or, imagine being able to shoot somewhere other then the MIDDLE OF YOUR SCREEN, and walk around however you want, to dodge incoming fire realistically, to huddle behind cover.
Thats what this is ACTUALLY capable of.
"First of all, this makes it so you can control your character in game, FULLY. It will probably make use of props, such as guns, swords, bats, etc, which could easily have rumble and the like built in. This is not just a motion gimmick. this can be used for not only serious, but AWESOME games. Full games. Imagine the climbing in Assassins creed if you could fully control your body. Or Mirror's Edge. Or, imagine being able to shoot somewhere other then the MIDDLE OF YOUR SCREEN, and walk around however you want, to dodge incoming fire realistically, to huddle behind cover.
"
Thats what this is ACTUALLY capable of.
For example: you're playing a character who has a characteristic of being athletic and agile. You're walking down the train tracks when a train is rushing towards you from behind and for some contrived reason you haven't noticed until right now. You need to roll out of the way, or your toast. At this point, you have two options:
1) Make a general motion that the sensor reads as "MordeaniisChaos wants to roll to the right, to avoid the train. He performed the necessary action at the correct time. Success!"
versus
2) You actually have to full perform the action of rolling out of the train, being read 1-to-1 within the game itself on an hyper accurate level.
Between you and me, I'd prefer the former. The idea that your reactions and actions are really being protrayed on screen is great on paper, but in functionality becomes a cluster fuck when the bad-ass things I want to do (like rolling out of the way of a fucking train) are out of the scope of possibility. In other words, I don't want to have to do these things. Mirror's Edge is relentlessly finicky with your margin of error already, I don't need it to expect me to be a parkour champ as well.
" The sense of touch is a god damn important thing to a whole lot of people. The Wii controllers at the very least let you feel things through rumble, and the basic sensation of holding a physical object. What this kind of utter bullshit does is take Sony's fuckup removal of the rumble from their SixAxis and multiply that by dozens. Even if it works as advertised, they have effectively removed the ability to feel what you are doing. You have a system where the user makes a larger physical investment and receives even less feedback than before. There is literally no tactile feedback to this system. Relaxation is out the window, you require a larger space for gameplay (not to mention multiplayer), and game designs are forced to rely on a technology that, unless this is SCI-FI HAPPY FUN LET'S-PRETEND-HOUR, is nowhere near as precise as even the cheapest mocap rig you'll find out there. A simple depth-aware camera (looks stereo to me) simply will not be enough. Kudo's hilarious attempts at demoing the mocap (even though this was an early version) and watching the thing freak the fuck out speaks volumes. I don't even want to get into the lighting conditions this thing probably requires.This shit is Playstation Eye all over again. Look forward to waving your hands popping balloons, and not feeling a god damn thing when you do. Technology trumping the user experience, what a fucking hoot.I'm actually kind of *angry* with people who think the next evolutionary step in controllers is removing buttons altogether. Say what you want about the Wii, pairing triangulation with accelerometers is a very solid first step towards a motion sensitive controller that is precise enough for gameplay and still capable of providing physical response. Maybe it's time someone stepped up and looked at gloves again? Jesus christ, let me FEEL something!Guess it needs saying that i'm a 360 owner and i love the system. Edit: The "dicks" thing is sort of tongue in cheek :P It's just my gut feeling. People wanting to take my toys away. Grr. "
Think of it this way. This is totally optional this generation and it will not replace the 360 controller anytime soon, if ever. So bitching about it is pointless since it's not a necessary product.
With that said, I'd cry bullshit. I mean they diss the Wii waggling yet the girl during the demonstration looked like she was having a seizure. Plus, we were all expecting super-precise motion controls out of the Wiimote yet that was never entirely true.
I'm sure it could be great in due time, but for now... I'm not sold on it.
Plus, Milo is creepy.
im tired of big companies taking small peoples ideas and backing it with $500 million rather than $10 million. it seems like, one company has an awesome idea, and then another company tries to one up it and put a full ride on this technology. why not try to make their OWN revolutionary idea rather than giving a bigger R&D budget towards an idea thats already been proven. im sick of 3 different avatars of myself, 3 different mocap devices, and 3 different "all in one" media devices.
"im tired of big companies taking small peoples ideas and backing it with $500 million rather than $10 million. it seems like, one company has an awesome idea, and then another company tries to one up it and put a full ride on this technology. why not try to make their OWN revolutionary idea rather than giving a bigger R&D budget towards an idea thats already been proven. im sick of 3 different avatars of myself, 3 different mocap devices, and 3 different "all in one" media devices. "
It looks like a great way to compete with the wii and it actually might be a good feature for an already all around great console
Anyone play that totem game with the Xbox webcam...that game was ass...just sayin...
Nah, I dunno that i applaude it as a new revolution, but I am curious about the Natal ( so i guess that makes me a little dick, of all things), mostly for the auto sign in and menu controls ( i hate having to turn the controller on , wait 3 seconds and then hit the A button just to pause a movie every time i gotta piss), but would i pay $80-$100 for this thing just for that one convenience?
It can have potential if used right but most creative developers, i'd imagine, wouldn't bother doing anything with it unless it sells enough unites and the fact that the Xbox's main audience doesn't seem to have a great deal of interest in it, or motion controls in general at this point, i can't imagine it would sell much.
I'll keep my eye on it either way.
"@Rabidmonkeyman said:Are you implying that MS doesn't do this either?.... ""im tired of big companies taking small peoples ideas and backing it with $500 million rather than $10 million. it seems like, one company has an awesome idea, and then another company tries to one up it and put a full ride on this technology. why not try to make their OWN revolutionary idea rather than giving a bigger R&D budget towards an idea thats already been proven. im sick of 3 different avatars of myself, 3 different mocap devices, and 3 different "all in one" media devices. "
I admire some people's inability to read past the blog post and into the actual discussion that followed it. If you're not interested in a discussion, don't comment.
I also admire some people's inability to read the actual point of the post, which is lamenting the industry's lack of respect for tactile feedback.
If i was as blind as you, my life would probably be more enjoyable.
Lets see then -
Firstly you force your opinion on people by insiting they are DICKS if they applauding Natal. It's in your title!
Next you say that you need to "hold" something to enjoy yourself? Were you never a kid? Did you never use your mind to imagine a little? Use your hands and arms ? Run around a little? Jump up / dive for cover? Im guessing what you did do as a kid was sit on your ass shaking a wii-mote left and right.
"no tactile feedback" ? You are the controller .. how much feedback from your own movements do you want?
Ok so the playstaion eye burned you like many others. The Wii mote was a gimic, so now you insult anyone who dares to push the boundries a little?
The thing was only shown for the first time, you've not seen it in person or used it yet. How about you do those things before you blog away insulting people?
"@IncredibleBulk92 said:Ugh. That argument makes me feel like it's all just Microsoft trying to bite into the Wii's pie. Totally makes sense considering Wii's success, Microsoft would dump money to get this kind of thing out as quickly as possible =("" They weren't talking about the Natal as a traditional controller, their not talking about replacing the standard Xbox 360 controller or even integrating the Natal into existing games. Their talking about this as a completely seperate product aimed at a more casual audience... "
You nailed it right there. It's all about market share, and M$ wants more of that casual chunk. Innovating and true viability are sidelights and PR concerns to them. I doubt it'll ever be more than a gimmicky accessory though, or just a forerunner to something much better far down the road.
I think your missing the point. Someday someone will come out with a system just like this (Maybe it will be Natal) that will work. Software will be aware of who you are and how you are feeling and react appropriately. It has taken a lot of baby steps to get to this point. Whether Natal is a significant improvement over other attempts remains to be seen but I for one am excited that companies like Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are pushing us forward toward this new reality. Try to be more optimistically skeptical.
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