#1 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4569 posts) -

So England are out of Euros, Again. From a quarter final, Again. From a penalty shootout, Again. I can't believe how terrible Ashley Young has been all tournament Hodgson should of started Walcott or Oxlaide-Chamberlain for this game. They showed some attacking mindset from the first 20 then just went back to boring old defensive England, Again!

#2 Posted by zombie2011 (5171 posts) -

nope, they're never going to win again.

#3 Posted by Sooty (8195 posts) -

Well the current team certainly won't.

#4 Posted by Panpipe (482 posts) -

I don't understand it, but then again, I don't know much about football.

On the one hand we have one of, if not the greatest league in the world (it's at least presented that way), how can we not be a top side? Do people outside the UK think that the Premier League is the best league in the world?

Our team seems like a mess, but is that to do with the amazing lack of trust the entire country shows towards the team, or just genuinely the team/managers aren't up to it?

#5 Posted by doobie (612 posts) -

nope... we are just not good enough.

maybeee if we were to play in a tournament for under 14's girls we may make it through to the semi finals. but our overpaid, celebrity footballers would still be to tired by the end of the game and we would loose on penalties again.

#6 Edited by L44 (619 posts) -

We can only imagine what would have happened if Downing had played...

#7 Posted by jonnyboy (2867 posts) -

Not until we have a manager who's willing to focus on passing rather than goal scoring, one doesn't come without the other. Hodgson needs to run passing drills for the next 2 years.

#8 Posted by Ramone (3065 posts) -

In a while maybe but the current players aren't good enough

#9 Posted by MattyFTM (14581 posts) -

It has to happen sooner or later. Law of averages and all that.

Moderator
#10 Posted by OldGuy (1590 posts) -

Nope. Never again in all of history to come will they ever win.

#11 Edited by gamerpigeon (434 posts) -

The Problem is the way are Leagues are played. Something you will always hear a Commentator say of the opposite side against England is "in <insert opposing countries top league> the game is played slower". The Premier League is by far the fastest league in the world. It creates the most exciting football in the world but the negative for this is that Ball Possession is not a priority , making passes through to the goal is also not as important.

Wenger's Arsenal is the only team that has played similar to other teams on the continent and when it did they dominated and went unbeaten. Because English players and teams are not groomed and taught to play like that or against something like that.

A Messi or Ronaldo type player with amazing skills and a seemingly magnetic connection from his foot to the ball will never be created in England because we aren't told to play like that. We Play on giant pitches too as kids which is wrong. Everything we do in this country to teach kids to play football is wrong. The best football i ever played as a kid was indoors on a 5 a side setup. On a Giant Pitch i was lost.

When you look at the England squad its full of half decent players who are there to fill the Skills player roles of the Ronaldo's etc. The rest are just Heart(not Joe) type players. The spine is there , we have Gerrard and Parker in the middle and at the back we have Johnson,Terry, Lescott,Cole and Joe Hart. Whats missing is everything else.

tbh i gave up on being passionate about England at major tournaments after the World Cup. I came to the conclusion I'm talking about and the knowledge that unless things change at a grass roots level then that Spine I'm talking about (which will always be there) will continue to get us to last 16-QF stages of tournaments. But without the rest we wont go further. The rest wont appear until changes are made at the grass roots level. Germany did it and look where they are now.

Just be thankful that we have this exciting league. It is the sacrifice we make at international level to have it. The BPL is great because England are not.

#12 Posted by J0PALACE0K (79 posts) -

There needs to be drastic redevelopments at youth level before any senior team are successful at a major tournament again. I have no doubt that the FA are at least trying to address some of the issues but it will take a while before the emphasis is on a passing game.

@Panpipe said:

I don't understand it, but then again, I don't know much about football.

On the one hand we have one of, if not the greatest league in the world (it's at least presented that way), how can we not be a top side? Do people outside the UK think that the Premier League is the best league in the world?

Our team seems like a mess, but is that to do with the amazing lack of trust the entire country shows towards the team, or just genuinely the team/managers aren't up to it?

There are a few reasons for this. Firstly, one of the reasons why the Premier League is considered the greatest in the world is due to excitement levels. End to end matches and constant attacking are what makes the premier league great rather than Italian or Spanish leagues where it tends to be slower-paced and more based on building up passing moves. International matches are always more similar to this style and the PL philosophy that we can squander possession means we get caught out.

Also, many of the best PL players over the years haven't been English (Henry, Cantona, Di Canio, Drogba, Torres, Viera etc). So while some English layers stand out many are simply there for the industry and hard work rather than being technically better footballers. English PL =/= English players.

Also we have (especially last 10 years) had a team capable of doing brilliantly but just simply haven't performed to their potential. What that comes down to I don't even think the players could tell you.

#13 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8504 posts) -

Is it only me?

#14 Posted by Elazul (1342 posts) -

@zombie2011 said:

nope, they're never going to win again.

@OldGuy said:

Nope. Never again in all of history to come will they ever win.

This, although you can pretty much apply that to most major sporting events.

#15 Posted by mosespippy (4746 posts) -

I'm a Canadian and don't pay attention too much to football so I could be wrong about this but I feel like the way in which England are managed needs to change. It feels to me like they build a team around one player (currently Rooney) and when he can't preform the team loses. I'm sure the players around Rooney are quite capable and could strike it themselves if there wasn't such pressure from management to put the ball to him. If the team didn't have a single star that their expectations were set on then they could play better as a team and the opposition wouldn't be able to pick apart their offense by focusing on one player.

#16 Posted by Jimbo (10152 posts) -

Eventually, sure, but short of fluking a tournament like Greece did, it would take a generation to develop players and a team like Spain or Germany has. If we made the fundamental changes necessary to how talent is nurtured and made the national game the top priority (this won't happen, because there is way too much money in EPL), starting today, it would still take ~15 years before you started seeing the rewards from that. It's basically too late for anybody who is already older than 10.
 
It's possible - we achieved it with cricket- but it won't just happen. The right conditions have to be put in place to allow it to happen.

#17 Posted by jozzy (2053 posts) -

Well, at least you guys did better then the dutch... /cries

#18 Posted by Sooty (8195 posts) -

@jozzy said:

Well, at least you guys did better then the dutch... /cries

Hey now at least Holland didn't put in a shockingly awful performance at the 2010 WC.

Talk about phoning it in. British cunts.

#19 Posted by jozzy (2053 posts) -

@Sooty said:

@jozzy said:

Well, at least you guys did better then the dutch... /cries

Hey now at least Holland didn't put in a shockingly awful performance at the 2010 WC.

Talk about phoning it in. British cunts.

Well yeah, but we screwed that up by playing a frankly atrocious and unsportsmanlike final just when the whole world was watching.

#20 Edited by Tsoglani (595 posts) -

Not likely with the current team, England had their chance with the "golden generation" of Lampard, Terry, Gerrard, etc and couldn't do it. Though I am sure they WILL win a major tournament somewhere down the track. Also don't think Hodgson was the right choice (from the beginning) and his tactics seem more in place for the Greek national team than a team with talent like Rooney. Still can't believe England playing defensively against Italy... the players they have ususally play an attacking brand of football, so the defensive style this tournament just hasn't worked.

#21 Posted by Sooty (8195 posts) -

@jozzy said:

@Sooty said:

@jozzy said:

Well, at least you guys did better then the dutch... /cries

Hey now at least Holland didn't put in a shockingly awful performance at the 2010 WC.

Talk about phoning it in. British cunts.

Well yeah, but we screwed that up by playing a frankly atrocious and unsportsmanlike final just when the whole world was watching.

Foot chest!

#22 Posted by CookieMonster (2478 posts) -

I only see it happening anytime soon if we do a Greece, but it always seems like our players are too tired after 3 games in the tournament and get rolled over, so I doubt thats going to happen. Maybe its that accumulated fatigue thing? Gerrard was our best player and he only played half the season, but then again all the players from the Spanish side and the German side have played full seasons too...aaah I dunno, maybe we just are terrible.

Also, Ashley Young and Rooney were terrible this tournament. And the sooner we drop Johnson for Micah Richards, the better.

@L44 said:

We can only imagine what would have happened if Downing had played...

Not sure if serious.

#23 Posted by Tsoglani (595 posts) -

@Jimbo said:

Eventually, sure, but short of fluking a tournament like Greece did, it would take a generation to develop players and a team like Spain or Germany has. If we made the fundamental changes necessary to how talent is nurtured and made the national game the top priority (this won't happen, because there is way too much money in EPL), starting today, it would still take ~15 years before you started seeing the rewards from that. It's basically too late for anybody who is already older than 10. It's possible - we achieved it with cricket- but it won't just happen. The right conditions have to be put in place to allow it to happen.

Yeah good one, Greece fluked it in 2004... sick of hearing that sort of bullcrap. The very notion of fluking is a one match sort of proposition, not a WHOLE tournament FFS. And by the way, Greece has been in the top 15 in the world for the last decade, and that is with a team of average players and no superstars. So yeah, winning a major tournament with no superstars is more an indication of the team spirit and cohesion in 2004, far from a fluke. Once again, it's pretty hard to "fluke" consecutive games against the world's best back then (France, Portugal-twice, Czechs, etc).

#24 Posted by biggiedubs (524 posts) -

I'm going to say if Roy Hodgson continues as Manager, and he continues to make smart choices in terms of team selection (in some aspects, still would have rather had Richards over Johnson) and tactics, then I'm going to say....maybe. He's barely had any time at all to make amends from what Capello did to it, let him regroup and rebuild. I'm not saying we'll win the next world cup, but I think we'll do a lot better than we had done for the last 10 years.

In terms of Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain, I feel he was leaving them to make them impact players after 60+ minutes. After Ashley Young's year at Man Utd, it would have been hard to drop him for either the not 100% Walcott or the inexperienced, and on a yellow card, Oxlade-Chamberlain. Also, I don't think we were ever capable of battering them with our offence anyway, Italy kept Spain pretty quiet in the groups after all. Maybe Young is better defensively, I'm not sure.

#25 Posted by Jimbo (10152 posts) -
@Tsoglani said:

@Jimbo said:

Eventually, sure, but short of fluking a tournament like Greece did, it would take a generation to develop players and a team like Spain or Germany has. If we made the fundamental changes necessary to how talent is nurtured and made the national game the top priority (this won't happen, because there is way too much money in EPL), starting today, it would still take ~15 years before you started seeing the rewards from that. It's basically too late for anybody who is already older than 10. It's possible - we achieved it with cricket- but it won't just happen. The right conditions have to be put in place to allow it to happen.

Yeah good one, Greece fluked it in 2004... sick of hearing that sort of bullcrap. The very notion of fluking is a one match sort of proposition, not a WHOLE tournament FFS. And by the way, Greece has been in the top 15 in the world for the last decade, and that is with a team of average players and no superstars. So yeah, winning a major tournament with no superstars is more an indication of the team spirit and cohesion in 2004, far from a fluke. Once again, it's pretty hard to "fluke" consecutive games against the world's best back then (France, Portugal-twice, Czechs, etc).

They were like 100-1 going into the tournament, scraped out of the group stage and then won three games on the bounce 1-0 with some of the most soul-crushing football I've ever seen (the same football England has now played at two tournaments in a row).
 
I'm saying any team can roll the dice and hope that extremely unlikely sequence of events pans out for them, and there is always an outside chance England (or anybody else) could win a tournament that way. Yes it's 'pretty hard' to fluke consecutive games, which is why it rarely happens, but it's only 3 games in a row to win, not a 40 game season. If we want to go into a tournament with reasonable expectations of winning it like Spain or Germany (15 competitive wins in a row now) have gone into this tournament, rather than pipe dreams of a repeat of a Greece style freak occurance, then the national game needs a complete overhaul. Which won't happen.
#26 Posted by Nasharoo (63 posts) -

There are a number of promising young players coming through that could turn us into a force. We need a bit of a revolution in the playing style though, one I'm not sure Hodgson is capable of leading. One of the big factors in the premier league is the directness of the attacks, which can wreak havoc with defences that aren't used to it, but it also means we lose possession alot more than teams that like to build up play slowly. We have to have better ball retention in the middle, whilst also bringing in the necessary pace and power on the wings.

We should be following the blueprint of Germany.