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#101 Edited by Bishop113 (191 posts) -

@video_game_king: Patrick, Jeff and Brad have all said on numerous occasions themselves, they're just white males so what do they know. Patrick talks about diversity on a regular basis and subjects relating to diversity yet the entire Giantbomb staff is white men.

#102 Posted by Video_Game_King (36101 posts) -

Patrick talks about diversity on a regular basis and subjects relating to diversity yet the entire Giantbomb staff is white men.

......So? Who says that talking about diversity is exclusively the domain of non-white non-men?

#103 Posted by Hailinel (23971 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@bishop113 said:

@conmulligan: It has nothing to do with women, I'm talking about Patrick's using giantbomb as his outlet to force feed horse shit gender politics down everyone's throats.

I wasn't aware that publishing articles that require a voluntary willingness to read and that are not compulsory to consume in any way is somehow an act of force-feeding.

"Don't read it if you don't like it" is the lazy man's counterargument. Obviously, the person has already read through it, you telling them not to is useless and doesn't welcome conversation in any way.

Anyway, I'm beginning to question what exactly needs to be done about Internet trolls. Patrick and the thread he links say "SOMETHING must be done" and Zoe sort of takes it a step further and offers people her ear and empathy, but....that doesn't really solve anything, does it? If Kid A steals Kid B's bike, how does Kid B talking to Kid C and D solve anything? There needs to be more than just offering a shoulder to those affected. There needs to be consequences to the offender.

Again, I am questioning how providing something for voluntary consumption is considered force-feeding.

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#104 Posted by Bishop113 (191 posts) -

@video_game_king: It's everyone's right to talk about whatever they please, but it seems rather ridiculous for the Giantbomb staffers to fairly often say when talking about these types of issues that they are just simple white men and then go right back on to working in their all white male environment while Patrick the all white american male continues to use Worth Reading as a means to try and spread diversity, I mean you can't tell me it's simply coincidence that most of this article is composed of links to other articles written by women or about sexism or in this week's case about race. In fact it seems to me that most of these articles tend to carry the same bias, if it's not articles written by women it's articles written by men about sexism or some sort of moral issue.

Not only is this type of stuff in hard contrast with every other piece of content that is uploaded to this website, but it seems rather idiotic to continue on pretending that this whole site's staff isn't just further perpetuating the male white gamer stereotype by having a staff of all white males constantly saying the exact same things when it comes to any matter or race, sex or moral matters.

#105 Edited by Bishop113 (191 posts) -

@hailinel: Because he's participating in what has become a massive phenomenon across the internet? Because Giantbomb only passively commented on moral subjects in the past but since Patrick has joined the staff the site has fairly regularly commented on some horrible thing someone did or some matter of race of sexism or homophobia or the gender roles in video games etc. I have heard Brad on numerous occasions comment on gender roles when Patrick wasn't even involved, I've been on the site since like the year after it began or something and I can't recall a time when Brad talked about gender roles, but Patrick came along, now Jeff talks about it, Brad talks about it, Brad has even stifled Vinny's jokes on multiple occasions because of this sort of hypersensitive bullshit. It's absolutely not all Patrick's fault, but when the shit he posts is the only piece of content uploaded to the site on Mondays and two of the three pieces of content we get on Fridays, it rather ticks me off that this is the type of shit he posts or talks about in the other things he posts, so much so that I have come to avoid everything with Patrick in it because I have heard enough of these matters and I do not feel Patrick or anyone on this site properly represents any of the people involved in happenings of sexism or racism or homophobia or anything and I tire oh so much of hearing Patrick's silly shpeals.

#106 Edited by joshwent (2143 posts) -

@bishop113: It's these kind of posts that make it impossible for anyone to hear me when I put forward any ideas that may run contrary to Patrick's or the articles he posts.

If you must, disagree civilly with something, and respectfully start a conversation with your counter-argument.

Lambasting a writer for putting articles he likes in a feature that specifically showcases articles he likes, and then personally attacking him, is inane. Don't get me wrong, there are occasionally tweets and other things on this site from Alex and Patrick that really rub me the wrong way, but to say they shouldn't be allowed to post stuff on their own site is ridiculous.

Read and let write. And if you don't like it, start a productive conversation, or click that little "x" and move on with your life.

#107 Edited by Bishop113 (191 posts) -

@joshwent: I'm simply expressing my distaste for the content Patrick puts on the site, just as he posts his immensely biased opinions on a regular basis, I'll occasionally pop in and share my own opinions. He regularly criticizes others for their actions, why can't I criticize him for his?

I'm not harassing him, calling him names or attacking him in some ridiculous childish way so I fail to see the problem. He'll write me off like he writes off everyone else so what does it matter.

#108 Posted by Video_Game_King (36101 posts) -
#109 Posted by Bishop113 (191 posts) -
#110 Posted by Video_Game_King (36101 posts) -

@bishop113:

You essentially said, "I'm not harassing this asshole who's gonna write me off anyway." You're creating this narrative where Patrick's forcing his social justice philosophies on everybody in earshot and you're another poor victim who's simply standing up against his feminist oppression. And you're doing it rather aggressively.

#111 Posted by Hailinel (23971 posts) -

@video_game_king: Because my opinion is biased?

Because you're forcing your opinion on everyone involved in this conversation in an overly aggressive manner. Sort of like what you perceive Patrick is doing. But all you're doing is providing annoyance for the rest of us. Patrick probably took one look at your vitriolic comments and shrugged his shoulders because all you've done is spew Internet Hate. You take the the tactic of aggression rather than reason, and when you do that, why in the world should Patrick listen to what you have to say?

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#112 Posted by danm_999 (74 posts) -

@danm_999: I wasn't talking about the articles featured in this post, I'm talking about Patrick's worth reading article he posts every Friday, this thing we're all commenting on. I have nothing against women writing articles.

...you used the fact that seven of the articles posted in this Worth Reading were written by women as your leading point when demonstrating how Patrick is trying to push some sort of diversity change.

You went so far as to count them. So yes, you were talking about the articles featured in this post, regardless of what their content was, and purely by who wrote them.

when you know maybe Giantbomb could hire an actual woman and have someone who actually knows what they're talking about when it comes to these subjects in place of Patrick the pseudo intellectual judo master.

Since all that's being done here is basically an aggregation of what other people are thinking and saying on the internet vis a vis video games in the last week or so, how precisely would a woman linking to articles other women have written in the Worth Reading articles be of more substance than when Patrick is doing it? How would it be more acceptable?

More broadly, why is it so bad for someone to try and write about something external to themselves? Can't men discuss feminism in conjunction with women?

#113 Posted by danm_999 (74 posts) -

so much so that I have come to avoid everything with Patrick in it because I have heard enough of these matters and I do not feel Patrick or anyone on this site properly represents any of the people involved in happenings of sexism or racism or homophobia or anything and I tire oh so much of hearing Patrick's silly shpeals.

Without trying to sound too mean; if this is true, why are you even reading/commenting in this feature? I'd guess by now you'd have figured out Patrick collates these weekly features, and that if you're trying to avoid everything with Patrick in it on Giant Bomb, skipping Worth Reading would be pretty high up on the list I'd imagine.

Don't take that as me telling you to get out or anything, because I think you're perfectly entitled to discuss this whenever you feel the need, I'm just a little puzzled why you feel the need to simultaneously engage with all this material and decry it as not worth your attention/something you avoid.

#115 Posted by Dixavd (1305 posts) -

That Dark Souls tweet did indeed make me go "Hmmmmmm"!

#116 Posted by Chuddy (20 posts) -

@towersixteen: the subject is Africa, so yes it'll be the dumbest thing ever. somewhere between the ritual murder of albinos and the tire burnings of people accused of witchcraft and voodoo.

#117 Posted by Nashvilleskyline (194 posts) -
#118 Posted by Nashvilleskyline (194 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@bishop113 said:

@meatball: I see seven links to articles written by women, an article about a woman being harassed on the internet and an article about a homosexual person as well as an article about a black man's racial heritage.

Patrick is very blatantly trying to implement some sort of diversity change with these articles as these are the same topics and trends that pop up in nearly every single one of these "worth reading" posts, even when the articles aren't worth a damn he posts them just because oh hey race, sexual orientation or it's written by a woman. Oh so edgy, so modern. It's ridiculous and it completely clashes with every single other piece of material on this website, Patrick is the only one on here pushing this kind of crap onto the site every week.

You apparently have no idea how ridiculous you sound. Perhaps if you lay off the knee-jerk foolishness and actually read what Patrick wrote and linked to, you'd learn something.

Although I don't agree with the tone and how he says it, I do agree that GB has sort of become Patrick's blog. Not that I complain, just a thought.

#119 Posted by MjHealy (1829 posts) -

Grrr, treating people with respect.

Have a good holiday Patrick, keep up the good work in 2014.

#120 Posted by SirOptimusPrime (1959 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@bishop113 said:

@meatball: I see seven links to articles written by women, an article about a woman being harassed on the internet and an article about a homosexual person as well as an article about a black man's racial heritage.

Patrick is very blatantly trying to implement some sort of diversity change with these articles as these are the same topics and trends that pop up in nearly every single one of these "worth reading" posts, even when the articles aren't worth a damn he posts them just because oh hey race, sexual orientation or it's written by a woman. Oh so edgy, so modern. It's ridiculous and it completely clashes with every single other piece of material on this website, Patrick is the only one on here pushing this kind of crap onto the site every week.

You apparently have no idea how ridiculous you sound. Perhaps if you lay off the knee-jerk foolishness and actually read what Patrick wrote and linked to, you'd learn something.

Although I don't agree with the tone and how he says it, I do agree that GB has sort of become Patrick's blog. Not that I complain, just a thought.

That's less a function of some tinfoil hat conspiracy, though I'm not saying you're all about those chemtrails, and more that the content on the site before Patrick and Alex were here was QL's and weekly events. That was kind of it, to be honest. People complained about the lack of content, but internet is as internet does and we're back to that situation but with more content actually coming out of the site.

My conclusion is always: if you don't like the content, then you don't have to consume it.

#121 Edited by Brodehouse (9645 posts) -

I don't want to wade into this whole thing, but I do want to say that I always found it odd to see Patrick reporting some of those 'equality of outcomes' stories like Liz Deloria(sp?) saying that not having any women presenters at Sony's PS4 announce conference was proof of misogyny. I'm sure Patrick would be upset being told that him, Brad and Vinny are going to be replaced in order to make Giant Bomb 'more fair'. The fact that Giant Bomb is straight white men (and Alexis) is not because Jeff hired people he likes and people he thought were best for the job, it's because Jeff is a misogynist.

That first tweet; brilliant.

I think if Assassin's Creed 4 focused on any other heavy slave trade in history; the Barbary slave trade for instance, it wouldn't have the same effect. If 'are we capitalizing on human suffering' is something that really bothers you, you're going to have a difficult time enjoying anything with any historical references. The plot of AC1 is centered around genocidal Crusades replete with slavery, murder and rape, no one stopped to consider if they were capitalizing on the suffering of folks who died screaming almost a hundred generations ago.

#122 Edited by CrazyBagMan (836 posts) -

Oh giant bomb... What are we becoming?

#124 Edited by spraynardtatum (2631 posts) -

Man, those tweets from Zoe Quinn in that storify article are fucking inspiring. What a healthy perspective after such a bad experience. She's awesome. I agree with her that the people that harass others on the internet will continue to be terrible if we don't nip it in the bud when it occurs. If you see someone being horrible online you need to stand up to them right then. It's easy and other people will help out. There are more good people than bad on the internet/in the world. It needs to be embarrassing to act poorly.

I'm looking forward to Depression Quest and whatever she does next.

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#125 Posted by WeaponBoy (161 posts) -

I don't want to wade into this whole thing, but I do want to say that I always found it odd to see Patrick reporting some of those 'equality of outcomes' stories like Liz Deloria(sp?) saying that not having any women presenters at Sony's PS4 announce conference was proof of misogyny. I'm sure Patrick would be upset being told that him, Brad and Vinny are going to be replaced in order to make Giant Bomb 'more fair'. The fact that Giant Bomb is straight white men (and Alexis) is not because Jeff hired people he likes and people he thought were best for the job, it's because Jeff is a misogynist.

Those aren't the same thing and aren't really comparable. People tend to assume that any accusation of misogyny or sexism are accusing a single person of being a Bad Person, but rather that they did something that people found objectionable or, in this case, depressing. The sort of complaint you're referring to is about systemic imbalances that assumes that male is a default position, so it makes perfect sense to have an all-white, all-male series of presenters. A common counter-argument would be why does it matter if they're all white dudes, and it doesn't matter, which is exactly the point; that question cuts both ways. If it doesn't matter then why not have a few women or PoC?

It's the same reason why I'd like more diversity in the characters we play as in games. I like to find books written by different varieties of people because seeing things from different perspectives in both fiction and non-fiction is really neat. At the end of the day, though, I like videogames more than books so it would be great if there were actually interesting characters who weren't just boilerplate white dudes. I'll keep playing games with white dudes in them, certainly, but I can hope for more. I mean, if an all white dude cast made media unpallatable to me would I keep coming to Giant Bomb?

#126 Posted by zeekthegeek (383 posts) -

I am disgusted that someone as outwardly bigoted as bishop is actually still allowed to go out into the public internet. People like this should just be shamed and mocked mercilessly into hiding.

#127 Posted by mavs (146 posts) -

I'm not blaming you Bargnani

#128 Posted by TheHumanDove (2523 posts) -

I am disgusted that someone as outwardly bigoted as bishop is actually still allowed to go out into the public internet. People like this should just be shamed and mocked mercilessly into hiding.

Better grab yer torch and pitchfork

#130 Posted by jred250 (105 posts) -

That Jeremy Parish story breaks my heart. 1UP was too good in its prime and too far ahead of the curve. I hope that we aren't saying the same thing about Giant Bomb someday :(

#131 Posted by Wilshere (288 posts) -

There will always be immature people on the internet. Next year there will be another batch of 14-15-16 years old kids that will love to curse on voice chat and offend people on the internet. Its unwise to demand that they should change. Grow a thick skin and learn that kids will be kids.

Patrick, i hope in the future you don't pull such stunts as providing articles from female authors only. Remember that this service is for the users, how do they benefit if you don't show better articles only because you don't feel like it?

#132 Posted by joshwent (2143 posts) -

@wilshere said:

Patrick, i hope in the future you don't pull such stunts as providing articles from female authors only.

Think about this sentence. Think about why having articles from female authors only would be an odd thing, and maybe think why articles from only men wouldn't be. Think about why Patrick thinks about these things. And think before you write insultingly dismissive things like "kids will be kids" about the very real (meaning not even limited to the internet) harassment that is happening to some people.

From what I can gather your point is, it seems like you and I are actually coming from a similar place. But that makes me that much more adamant in getting across the point that dismissing an entire problem outright is destructive to all involved. Invalidating someone's reaction to any situation, no matter how you think you'd handle it, is a fundamentally unreasonable and invalid response.

#133 Posted by avantegardener (1111 posts) -

Video games yo.

#134 Posted by Wilshere (288 posts) -

@joshwent: I didn't say i want male written articles only. I want the best articles available. I find it odd because of the entire video game covering media's shift to give a helping hand or protect women no matter if they are good or bad at their job.

#135 Posted by Ironhammer (39 posts) -

Giant Bomb's community has become toxic. This is like reading YouTube comments, I rarely engage in it, and always regret it when I do.

#136 Edited by Video_Game_King (36101 posts) -

@wilshere said:

I want the best articles available.

And if those just so happen to be from women? Hell, how do we know that isn't the case here?

Grow a thick skin and learn that kids will be kids.

I also feel I should mention that I really fucking hate this mentality. Since when was telling somebody to kill themselves a natural part of growing up? Why not tell the bullies to stop being such shitheads? What's stopping me from inverting the situation? When you tell somebody to "grow a thick skin", you're sending two messages:

  1. I'm not willing to help you.
  2. This is your own damn fault.

Not the best message for this situation, is it?

#137 Posted by bunnymud (717 posts) -

Hoping to change the internet is like wishing to move a mountain. It won't happen unless so heavy bullshit is involved.

Humanity sucks.

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#142 Posted by Wilshere (288 posts) -

@video_game_king: This is the the approach. Completely ignore them. They take satisfaction from your reaction. Quit being so sensitive. Someone from the other side of the world told you to kill yourself. Is it as bad as maybe your relative or friend saying it? Absolutely not. Shrug it off and move on, have a laugh.

#143 Posted by Video_Game_King (36101 posts) -

@wilshere said:

Quit being so sensitive.

Why are you blaming the victim? Why this mentality? Wouldn't that be like blaming me for being robbed? "Stop being such a robbable target. Crime's gonna happen anyway, so stop complaining about it and don't make yourself such a victim."

#147 Posted by Wilshere (288 posts) -

@video_game_king: The sheep ventured into the deep dark forest expecting nothing bad to happen. When it did it complained about the wolf bites. Yes, it is partly the victims fault.

#148 Posted by Video_Game_King (36101 posts) -

@wilshere:

Yea, fuck sheep for being such meaty, presentable targets. Not the wolf for ag-wait, why's a sheep going into the woods in the first place? Aren't they grazing animals?

#149 Posted by TreuloseTomate (33 posts) -

I think there is some miscommunication.

It's like when you leave 100.000$ in your car for everybody to see, and the next day you wonder why your car disappeared. People would say: "Well, why did you leave 100.000$ in your car? Were you asking for it to be stolen?" This is treating the criminal like a force of nature. No matter how much we speak out against thieves, there will always be thieves (maybe until we reach the Star Trek age). It's neither tolerating theft nor is it blaming the victim. It's a method to prevent bad things from happening in the future. Don't leave that much money in your car.

But the comparison doesn't hold in this case. If you want to get your video game on Steam, what other choices do you have? The only thing you can do, is to expect and prepare for some trolling and outrage from teenage boys. Getting her phone number is in another league though, I have to say. That's some creepy shit.

How do you stop them? Do something? Something what? Speak out against them? I think everybody who visits this website would find such behaviour disgusting. We all think, that it's wrong. But it's always implied that we are somehow responsible. Because it is always gamers, as a whole, who are harassing women. Not some insecure teenagers from 4chan. The videogame community.

I'm not part of that community. It doesn't even exist. Leave me out of it!

#150 Posted by snakesniper780 (1 posts) -

Just think how far games are coming know its a whole waste of time to spend money on a game then on another on. It's like drugs once u have one Molly u have to have another one.