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#1 Edited by Silver-Streak (1358 posts) -

So I am very lucky in that I recently got married to a nice nerd lady.

She browses GB regularly, but doesn't take in much of the video content, sadly, as she's deaf.

There's not much GB can do, unless or find a decent auto-captioner (I've yet to see one) or CBSi lets them hire someone to start captioning their video content, and they have desire to do so.

This means she's never had the chance to enjoy one of the many Endurance Runs.

I've put some thought into captioning one of them, maybe the VJ or BR Deadly Premonition ones, as I don't know if I have the mental stamina to try to work on Persona 3, and I'm not sure she'd watch the CT one as she's played through it a ton. Thinking more on it, though, I don't know if I have the ability to work through all of even the Deadly Premonition ones, but I might be able to do so with the help of one or two other people, everyone working on 1/2 or 1/3rd of the episodes, depending on how many would get in.

Generally, what's involved is downloading one of the episodes, opening it in Subtitle Workshop, and then typing in the info while syncing it with the audio. At the end, you'd generate a .srt file (Which is a text file with specific formatting, basically), to which she and other users would be able to use in VLC(or even WMP11 in some cases) along with the downloaded ER file.

Would anyone else get any use out of these? Would anyone be interested/willing to assist? I'm not even 100% sure I'd want to proceed, but I'm sure I can't do it alone.

Any insight is appreciated.

#2 Posted by VisariLoyalist (2992 posts) -

seeing as there's often a lot of cross talking and specifically timed reaction moments I don't know if it would really work. Although I guess that's irrelevant as it will work as well as it can given the circumstances.

#3 Posted by Dagbiker (6976 posts) -

I have quicklooks / ers running all the time and wouldnt mind doing some but i wouldnt know how to format it.

#4 Posted by eroticfishcake (7786 posts) -

You had me until you got to the download the episodes part since I'm not a paying member. At the very most I can watch an episode and transcript it to Notepad. I can't do it now since I've exams until the 5th of May. I'll pop back later but good luck either way mate.

#5 Posted by Silver-Streak (1358 posts) -

Hmm....Maybe I'll do a run through of one of the shorter VJ or BR episodes and post up a link to the example file, to see how people feel about doing it. I'll check back on this later this week, then.

#6 Posted by Silver-Streak (1358 posts) -

@eroticfishcake: Aw, crud. I forgot downloads are members only.

Welp, I'll still give it a shot later to see how much work is involved. Thanks for the heads up.

#7 Posted by Winternet (8018 posts) -

@Eujin: I won't mind doing some transcribing, but audio sync? I don't think I have neither the skill nor the time for that. So, if you think I can help, then hit me up. I'll gladly do it.

#8 Posted by Gaff (1748 posts) -

@Eujin: I'd be willing to lend a hand (let's see how much work it is first, though!)

Grabbing the mobile version of the first VJ DP episode. I assume you want Vinny and Jeff subtitled and not the game audio, since (I think) the entire game was subtitled?

#9 Edited by Silver-Streak (1358 posts) -

@Gaff: No real reason to subtitle the game audio. Although I might subtitle the York "Good shot" bits until they actually realize what it is, that way she can get the jokes they make about it later.

Also, if you're going to look into it, I thank you greatly. I'm looking at one of the smaller VJ episodes right now, and it might be a bit difficult for us to do it in a format that works (vinny text always on the left with [Vinny] above it, Jeff text always on right with [Jeff] above it, same for ryan and brad, etc).

I would recommend you just see how much work is involved and if it's something you're interested in and report back.

If it seems viable enough, what I'll do is do a run through of both VJ and BR episode 1s(maybe 1 and 2), and see which she finds funnier or would want to continue on with.

#10 Posted by Winternet (8018 posts) -

@Eujin: Also, how does your wife react to comedy shows? Comedy depends so much on the audio (even more on this case where there is no acting), that just reading the lines may not be a fun experience.

#11 Posted by Gaff (1748 posts) -

@Eujin: Thought so.

Hitting my first snag: Subtitle Workshop doesn't play nicely with MP4 files. No video, just sound (Oh, the irony!).

Second snag: Christ, this interface is ^$#@^%@#$#$^%$!

#12 Posted by Silver-Streak (1358 posts) -

@Gaff: First, well crap. I'll see if I can find alternative software.

Secondly: She does quite well with humor based content, from tv to standup, so this should be fine.

#13 Edited by Dudacles (1454 posts) -

If you haven't done so already, maybe you should consider doing like the first three episodes or something and showing her them, so that she can tell you whether or not she enjoys watching the ER--otherwise, you and others might end up wasting quite a bit of time transcripting videos that she might not even watch, don't you think?

However, I think this is a very nice idea, and would like to help if I can. As has been mentioned, regular members such as yours truly can't download episodes, but I would very much be willing to transcribe the audio in Openoffice/Notepad of some episodes, if you can't find enough paying members willing to help you out.

#14 Edited by Bocam (3745 posts) -
Online
#15 Posted by Gaff (1748 posts) -

@Eujin: Theoretically, it shouldn't be a problem: the whole idea of making a separate sub file is just telling the video player to pop up which text at which frame. But... Holy crap, this interface takes getting used to...

Anyway, I've got a draft up and running of the first 40 seconds (!!) of the first VJ DP ER. It works on my end, though just for QA sake, here you go.

http://www.mediafire.com/?w9n47k8mgh0ts6o

#16 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

I would totally be behind this (if I still had my membership)  
Might look into this when I get one again though. I might as well spend my not-doing-much hours on actually doing something worthwhile  
 
OR hey, just upload the videos to youtube and use their caption thingy! That thing is wonderful, right guys?  
(at least it's good for a few laughs, but that's about it. useless fucking junk)

#17 Posted by Silver-Streak (1358 posts) -

@Gaff: It's looking like getting the timing and everything right makes each line take like, 60 seconds. I'm not sure what I've gotten myself into. I'll keep messing around with this and see how I feel about it tomorrow.

#18 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

I would totally help out if I had more than 50Gigs of bandwidth a month. That might change soon though so I'd be happy to help if I can figure it out.

#19 Edited by Silver-Streak (1358 posts) -

@MordeaniisChaos: Keep in mind mobile quality episodes are only like, 100-200 mbs per 30 minutes. However, the amount of work per episode on this may be tantamount to murder unless we can find something with a more user friendly UI.

#20 Posted by DrPockets000 (2859 posts) -

I'd like to at least try to help, after finals. Not making any promises in terms of success though.

#21 Posted by Kovie (202 posts) -

I'll reserve the possibility of helping out.

#22 Posted by Gaff (1748 posts) -
@Eujin The quickest and dirtiest way would be just transcribing the audio, then pausing and pasting the right line at the right time. The hardest part is getting a audio transcript for now. I guess the actual syncing and QA is a cinch compared to that.
#23 Posted by Thompson820 (410 posts) -

I have the entire Persona 4 Endurance Run on my computer, sadly none of the others. If you want that ER subbed I could probably start work on the first episode and see how it goes.

#24 Posted by Pepsiman (2475 posts) -

@Bocam said:

@Eujin: Use Aegisub

This a million times. I've used Subtitle Workshop before in my own work years ago, but I find that Aegisub is an all-around superior subtitling program. Subtitle programs will always have somewhat dense interfaces just because of how much information you need to work with, but Aegisub is about as intuitive and straightforward as you're going to get. Since it's also not inherently designed in accordance with restrictive DVD subtitling standards, you can do a lot of useful position and coloration stuff with the text that isn't possible with other programs, as well as run multiple subtitles simuntaneously in different parts of the screen, even if there's a "timing conflict." It can also import and export to lord knows how many different formats at this point, so if you were to switch to Aegisub, you shouldn't lose any existing progress you might have already made. That being said, because the features it has are so atypical, you'll probably have to use something like VirtualDub to re-encode each episode in order to have the subtitles properly appear. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, no major media player can the native Aegisub format, although that's not surprising since it was actually designed for re-encoding with external programs in mind anyway. As far as I know, it also doesn't play nice with MP4 files, but I think that's something you'll have to live with no matter what program you pick. Overall, though, I'd say Aegisub is easily the best, most accessible subtitling software available, especially for somebody just using it for personal stuff.

#25 Posted by Silver-Streak (1358 posts) -

Just an update on this: I've been dealing with some other stuff so I haven't gotten to work on the first episodes much. I'm still not terribly sure whether the amount of effort and time required are equal to the result, but I'll report back when I can actually spend an hour on it.

For anyone following along, after recommendations from the kind folks who've replied, I'm now using Aegisub, which the mp4s work fine in. If anyone else is still trying, the format I'm using is [Jeff/Ryan] Speech here \N [Vinny/Brad] speech here if there is overlapping talking

the \N gives a hard line break so they're easier to distinguish.

#26 Posted by wemibelec90 (1660 posts) -

Maybe you could color code the lines instead? Might be easier to just keep all the subtitles in one place and do that.

I gave an episode of the P4 Endurance Run a try and couldn't believe just how long it was taking me. I was really intrigued by this idea but I don't think anyone would have the time, unless there is an easier way that I was missing. Having to go through and time-code each line so particularly (using Aegisub; maybe there was a quicker way I didn't see) makes even a short episode take over an hour.

#27 Posted by Toxeia (729 posts) -

I'd be willing to help out with this, but not sure what I would be able to do short of throwing it into movie maker and putting text on the screen. That sounds a bit... awful.

#28 Posted by Kovie (202 posts) -

There's certainly a rhythm to be found in the syncing process, but even then, it's still an arduous task. To go through an entire series of the ER would probably be complete insanity, unless there are as many people as episodes.

I managed to sub a really short episode of P4 in Aegisub, trying to get the feel of it. http://www.mediafire.com/?f16h87zxpctpnzk

I used colour-coding, and had to make a lot of judgement calls about what and what not to include in the subs. Also, be warned that in the case of P4, the low video resolution can make the default font size look really bad when played outside of the editor.

#29 Edited by Ducksworth (660 posts) -

Since the content is hosted by Youtube, people could use a decent Youtube -> MP4/AVI converter. I remember I used to convert + download at my library when the internet at my place was down. The only downside would be that (as far as I know) converters don't offer resolutions past 480p.

Edit: Also, if this is an acceptable method I wouldn't mind helping out.

#30 Posted by Mcmurrow (49 posts) -

I've actually been interested in trying some of this on my own, so this is a good excuse to experiment tonight and I'll post the results if I'm proud of them.

#31 Posted by Funkydupe (3318 posts) -

You should do this if it possible - the more people who can enjoy the fun of the Endurance runs - the better.

#32 Edited by Mcmurrow (49 posts) -

So I shamelessly copied 's coloring idea, but I did the first 40 seconds or so of the first ep. of P4. I know that's not much, but I'm about to go out, so I figured I'd post it here and see if I could get some feedback by the time I get back. I'm mainly worried about speed right now. I'm a fairly fast reader, so I need others to tell me if I'm not giving enough time to get the subs read. I tried to cut out as many unnecessary words as I could while still leaving in some stuff for flavor. This is time-consuming, but I'm enjoying it, so feedback would be appreciated.

http://www.mediafire.com/?1o1fod1amllcn1c

#33 Posted by Kovie (202 posts) -

@Mcmurrow:It's good, there is easily enough time to read them.

I think a big issue is when the priority of in-game text and subtitles collide, it's like asking someone to read two things at once. I'm not sure about that.

#34 Edited by Mcmurrow (49 posts) -

Yeah, that's probably a really good argument in DP's favor (although I think it actually seemed to work out alright in the episode you did). In any case, now that I think I know what I'm doing, , if you decide to do something officially, let me know and I'd love to help out.

#35 Posted by Mcubed (63 posts) -

I would love to try this. As someone who has watched the Persona 4 Endurance run an unhealthy amount of times, has some video editing and timing skills, and watches subtitled anime a lot, I feel it should be doable. I am in the middle of a move right now, but the first few episodes of the Persona 4 ER aren't too long, so that should be a decent place to start.

#36 Posted by sterbacblu (231 posts) -

@Eujin

I'd be willing to help out. I just tried a bit with the Yesterday QL, and while it's certainly not a cinch, it'd be doable with some organization once you knew how many people were willing to volunteer their time. Like how speaking parts would be identified, who is doing which episodes, captioning all game sequences or just critical ones, how overlaps would be handled, etc. Just from a few minutes, I'm not sure if splitting up chunks of one episode would be the best idea, but that'd be your call. Also, just out of curiosity, is this solely something you're looking for with ERs or QLs as well?

#37 Posted by dudeglove (7840 posts) -

Unless you can touch type at about 100 words a minute, this will take you forever.

Online
#38 Posted by Silver-Streak (1358 posts) -

@sterbacblu: I'm looking at just doing it with 1 ER for now, likely the DP one.

The time consumption is really excessive at this point.

Also, for everyone checking in: Don't be concerned about merging the subtitles into the video. Using Aegisub allows you to save them in .srt format, which would allow you to just download the video and stick it in the same folder as the .srt file and they'd play in WMP or VLC player.

The syncing is reallyyyyyyy time consuming, so it's becoming frustrating to sit and work on just one episode. I've been exceedingly busy this week, but I'm going to try to work on this more today.

#39 Posted by Azteck (7449 posts) -

Just a question, maybe you've answered it previously, but how would you handle times when Jeff and Vinny talk over the characters, or talk over each other?

#40 Posted by Mcubed (63 posts) -

In regards to organization for a group of people working on this sort of thing, the way that most fansub groups seem to do it is indeed splitting up the work for each episode. For example:

A translator ( or in this case just a scribe essentially) would copy down each line with rough timing. His main concern is accurate wording.

A timer would then go through and make sure everything is timed well to when people are speaking.

A Typesetter would then apply all the necessary styles to the text, and make sure that they are placed properly over the video, and insuring there is no bad overlap.

Lastly an editor, or QA person would review the episode, and make sure there are no typos or mistakes.

I also started testing this project out on the first episode of the Persona 4 ER. It's a nice short episode so I'm planning to have it done sometime today or tomorrow. I believe we wouldn't have to do much with the game characters, if at all. Especially in the Persona ER, because all of the characters already have subtitles up on screen in their text boxes. And in the DP ER I believe the guys have subtitles on. What I would be worried about, is the amount of text that's going to end up on screen. With Vinny and Jeff talking over the characters, there is going to be a lot to keep up with moment to moment, so I'm not sure how enjoyable that would be to watch.

But all we can do is try I think, and see if this will work out. The more people who can enjoy GB content the better right?

#41 Posted by Little_Socrates (5677 posts) -

I'm just going to personally recommend sticking to the Vinny-Jeff Endurance Runs if she's not interested in Chrono Trigger. I am...not fond of the BR Deadly Premonition run, as much as I like the two gentlemen behind it.

#42 Posted by nickux (1385 posts) -

Is there a Mac version for Subtitle Workshop?

#43 Posted by Athadam (692 posts) -

@Little_Socrates said:

I'm just going to personally recommend sticking to the Vinny-Jeff Endurance Runs if she's not interested in Chrono Trigger. I am...not fond of the BR Deadly Premonition run, as much as I like the two gentlemen behind it.

BR seemed to enjoy the game more in the end, they seemed to like the characters more and were more emotionally attached. VJ got caught in the game's clunkiness.

#44 Posted by Adziboy (702 posts) -

If I felt I could help, I would definitely try, but I don't think I'd be of much use. But I will say that what your doing is amazing.

#45 Posted by ShaggE (6452 posts) -

If I had the stamina and time to help with this, I'd love to. That's a massive undertaking, even when crowdsourced, and your reason for doing it is awesome.

#46 Posted by wemibelec90 (1660 posts) -

@Azteck said:

Just a question, maybe you've answered it previously, but how would you handle times when Jeff and Vinny talk over the characters, or talk over each other?

If they were doing it like I was, you don't subtitle the characters talking because the game does that already. When they kinda talk over one another, you just have to play it the best you can.

#47 Posted by Mcubed (63 posts) -

Alright guys. I finished the first episode of the Persona 4 ER as a test. It took me roughly 7 hours to complete on my own, and that's just for a 15 minute video. Granted this is my first time doing this, but that's still a good chunk of time.

There was a bit more cross talk in this episode due to the opening cinematic which made it a bit more challenging than a typical episode I would think.

@Eujin If you could let me know how well this works for you, that would be great. I used different colors for each of the guys, and put secondary speech like the cinematic stuff up top. Let me know if it's easy to read, or if you have suggestions as to how it could be improved. With the sound off, I personally had a hard time keeping up with it, with how fast the guys talk sometimes.

Knowing how much work this is going to be now, I'm certainly more inclined to tackle one of the shorter ERs first. Luckily Aegisub is a really easy program to use, and the work isn't really that hard. There's just a lot of it.

Anyway, here's the download link. Let me know what you guys think.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16704875/Subtitles/vf_persona4_01_1500.ass (It's an .ass file instead of .srt, which is what Aegisub seems to work natively in.)

#48 Posted by Slab64 (1055 posts) -

Heh... .ass file...

This seems like a really cool project, and I'm guessing the division of labor you laid out re: anime subs is probably a good system since those groups have more experience doing this sort of thing. I'd be curious to know how many ppl a group like that has, and now much time they spend on a half hour episode.

#49 Edited by Thompson820 (410 posts) -

@Mcubed: Those subtitles are pretty damn good. I made some slight tweaks to extend a few lines (timing), added quotes marks to one line and fixed a typo.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27071125/Persona%204%20ER%20Episode%201.ass

#50 Posted by Mcubed (63 posts) -

I imagine it's probably one person for each role, scribe (translator), timer, etc. with maybe one or two others in reserve in case someone doesn't have the time that week or something. I have no idea how much time they spend on it though. Sometimes each group has multiple teams as well, because they are doing more than one show a week. We would probably need a team of about 4-5 people if we really want to ramp this thing up to a decent pace.

Thanks man. And thanks for looking them over. Always good to get a new pair of eyes on something like this, especially since mine were working at like 2 o'clock in the morning.

I'll probably try the first episode of the VJ Deadly Premonition ER next as a test to see if that one is any easier or harder. My guess is that it'll be about the same, but if my memory serves me right each episode is closer to the same length than the ups and downs of the Persona ER, and there are far less of them, which should make for a more steady pace in subbing them.