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#1 Edited by MarkTheSlark (26 posts) -

I am seeing so much nonsense being posted everywhere from a lot of PC gamers saying that "the PS4 is weak" "already outdated hardware". This is FAR from the truth. That is, if you look at the facts and leave the fanboyism at the door. Even John Carmack says this, although I thought it was common knowledge, a lot of my fellow pc gamers seem to not understand this.

Here is John himself saying it on his twitter feed

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176

So even John Carmack, the man responsible for huge PC gaming innovations confirms it. A part used in a console has twice the efficiency of the same part used in a PC, as the PS4 is coded to the metal.

Therefore, you need a 3.68 teraflop GPU to equal the optimized 1.84 teraflop GPU in PS4.

At the end of the day, you have to spend more than the price of the whole PS4 console just for a 7970 GPU (2x 7850's power) to match the optimized PS4 GPU. Then you have to add in the cost of all the other things a PC needs to build one.

The PS4's optimized GPU has power roughly around 7970 power. How in the hell is that ANYWHERE near weak? And with games on console going to never go over 1080p and being 30 fps or 60 fps, the graphics produced by this thing will be absolutely unbelievable. Even Battlefield 4 will be childs play graphics in 1.5-2 years. Of course PC will stay more powerful, but I am tired of people talking nonsense calling PS4 weak hardware

#2 Posted by JasonR86 (9577 posts) -

That's a lot of flops.

#3 Edited by rebgav (1429 posts) -

I think that my 580s only produce 3.2 teraflops combined. Hmm.

And so began GTX Titan Quest 2013.

#4 Posted by MarkTheSlark (26 posts) -

@rebgav: This is of course with PS4's GPU being optimized. So (since its finally x86) developers will be able to optimize it FAR faster than previous generations. By 1.5-2 years the PS4 should be optimized very efficiently.

#5 Posted by MarkTheSlark (26 posts) -

@rebgav: Also, don't waste your money on that overpriced card. The Titan has to be one of the worst value cards in history.

#6 Posted by pweidman (2282 posts) -

Teraflop teraflop teraflop. Terraflopppin!

*sorry* :S

#7 Edited by oraknabo (1453 posts) -

@marktheslark said:

At the end of the day, you have to spend more than the price of the whole PS4 console just for a 7970 GPU (2x 7850's power) to match the optimized PS4 GPU. Then you have to add in the cost of all the other things a PC needs to build one.

I tried pricing out all the parts to build a PC that would compare to the current next-gen console specs that are available and couldn't get anything under $800. Sure, you are getting a lot more functionality for your money with a PC and it's upgradeable (though upgrading hardware will only cost you more money) but just comparing on hardware quality in the context of gaming platforms, the PS4 is really an incredible deal. XBONE isn't really that bad either (If you don't mind paying extra for a high-end webcam that you may or may not even use).

#8 Edited by MarkTheSlark (26 posts) -

Also, thanks for the mature replies. I tried posting this over there at gamespot and everyone flooded the topic with "lol your only level xx" "stupid tc are you trying to say garbage ps4 is better than PC?!?!"

Man that site's community is horrid and cannot have a legitimate discussion.

#9 Posted by konig_kei (595 posts) -

well, it just so happens i own a 7970, guess i won't have to upgrade for a good long while. But the thing is, I'll take 60fps over pretty graphics any day.

#10 Posted by MarkTheSlark (26 posts) -

@oraknabo: Yes, the PS4 is an amazing deal. Not to mention you know every game will work and that investment will last for 6-8 years. Console and PC both have their pros, I don't see why so many trolls on site's have to have Highlander Syndrome.

#11 Edited by rebgav (1429 posts) -

@marktheslark: Optimized, but also with a random fictional number attached. That's okay though, half the fun of a gaming PC is building a monstrosity which can out-do even the silliest claims about console performance. I'll mark down 3.68 tflops under GPU requirements on the blueprint for my next machine, tentatively titled "the fuckhammer."

It's going to be interesting to see what the real-world limitations of the new consoles are. On paper the PS4 seems great and I hope to be very happy with mine, but I don't expect to be receiving a box of unlimited potential for $400.

#12 Posted by TheIronWeasel (26 posts) -

Thankfully I plan on owning a 780 and PS4! Bases covered!

#13 Edited by JasonR86 (9577 posts) -
#14 Posted by ModernAlkemie (357 posts) -

@jasonr86: Are you saying I should wire my PS4 up to a lightning rod on top of city hall?

#15 Posted by rebgav (1429 posts) -

@jasonr86: Are you saying I should wire my PS4 up to a lightning rod on top of city hall?

That's the only way to get 88fps.

#16 Posted by Dark (360 posts) -

Thats a whole lot of flops, but it only takes one large flop to take down a company.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

#17 Posted by oldenglishC (921 posts) -

@rebgav said:

tentatively titled "the fuckhammer."

Copyright infringement is a serious crime. My legal team will be in touch.

#18 Posted by rebgav (1429 posts) -

@rebgav said:

tentatively titled "the fuckhammer."

Copyright infringement is a serious crime. My legal team will be in touch.

Xxtehfuckhamm3rxX - Crisis averted!

#19 Posted by Alexander (1721 posts) -

@marktheslark: No doubt consoles get more out of their hardware but by this logic you would need more than a GTX 650 to equal the performance of the 360's Xenos chip. That's laughable.

#20 Edited by onarum (1989 posts) -

indeed people saying the PS4 is weak just don't know wtf they're talking about, period.

But, consoles just cannot beat a PC in raw power, just can't, of course in order to have a PC that beats a brand new console you'll have to spend 3-4 times the price of said console, but still...

either was I still love consoles, just hope they can pull 60FPS consistently at 1080p because my year old PC can so...

#21 Posted by supertuna (79 posts) -

well, it just so happens i own a 7970, guess i won't have to upgrade for a good long while. But the thing is, I'll take 60fps over pretty graphics any day.

Me too. If this generation of consoles taught me anything, is that performance is way more important than pretty graphics. In this regard, I think my 7850 is starting to lag behind.

Still pretty excited for the PS4, though.

#22 Edited by Irkjab (8 posts) -

@marktheslark: I think its a bit too much of a leap to start speculating teraflops from Carmack saying "runs 2x or so better" in a tweet

#23 Posted by Monkeyman04 (997 posts) -

From that tweet I don't see it as double the teraflops of a PC GPU, but more that everything is optimized so much that the PS4 will run 2x more efficient than a PC.

#24 Posted by MildMolasses (3211 posts) -

Let's cut the shit here: how many gigawatts are we talking about?

#25 Posted by Lord_Xp (601 posts) -

I've also read that console architecture is easier to code than it is for a PC, making it run better on a console. I will look for the source that I read this at.

#26 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4328 posts) -

@lord_xp: You don't have to look it up, it's just common sense. PS4 is using a unified memory versus having separate RAM for the GPU and then everything else like with PC and all the components are streamlined to work together harder, better, faster, stronger.

#27 Edited by Colourful_Hippie (4328 posts) -

@monkeyman04 said:

From that tweet I don't see it as double the teraflops of a PC GPU, but more that everything is optimized so much that the PS4 will run 2x more efficient than a PC.

Yes, this is why, not so much teraflops. PC's can already beat the new consoles in terms of raw power but that doesn't mean much for games because it really just comes down to how the game performance is optimized.

#28 Posted by Lord_Xp (601 posts) -

@lord_xp: You don't have to look it up, it's just common sense. PS4 is using a unified memory versus having separate RAM for the GPU and then everything else like with PC and all the components are streamlined to work together harder, better, faster, stronger.

That last part I read in the form of the song by Kanye West. But thank god, because I didn't look it up yet anyways.

#29 Posted by TheHBK (5457 posts) -

It ain't nothing to a boss. Just built a new PC with a 770 in it and also have my preorder in for the Xbox One. Game on guys, play everything!

#30 Posted by Raineko (433 posts) -

Sounds really good I can't wait what beautiful piece of game Naughty Dog will produce on the PS4.

#31 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4328 posts) -

@lord_xp said:

@colourful_hippie said:

@lord_xp: You don't have to look it up, it's just common sense. PS4 is using a unified memory versus having separate RAM for the GPU and then everything else like with PC and all the components are streamlined to work together harder, better, faster, stronger.

That last part I read in the form of the song by Kanye West. But thank god, because I didn't look it up yet anyways.

Eww, no. You mean this.

#32 Posted by Lord_Xp (601 posts) -
#33 Posted by Doltz (31 posts) -

The Wii U puts out 60 fps, all day, everyday...

(Looks at Arkham City, runs away)

#34 Posted by D_Mac (102 posts) -

I thought the whole point of the unified architecture of the PS4 APU (as in a combined GPU and CPU on a single dye) was that it could leverage the processing power on the fly as needed and therefore take better advantage of the memory pipeline of the accelerated system RAM. It seems misleading to say it has a "faster GPU", because in the traditional sense it doesn't as it avoids the bottlenecks of the system bus by not being in an expansion slot. Comparing this to a PC with a huge GPU seems a little like comparing a high performance motorcycle (the PS4) to an american muscle car. Both have tons of power, both leverage it in very differnt ways. The reality is that both can reach pretty high top speeds if they have to, but each are best suited for different jobs. What we need in a game console is a cruise missile, something designed to do one, or a handful, of jobs very well, on target. PCs are diverse, but suffer because the more variations of complex tasks their called upon to do the more unwieldy and cumbersome they are.

#35 Posted by Slaegar (684 posts) -

Guys the Cell hasn't even been maxed out! Games can have better graffixs! Sony said MGS4 only used 10% of the Cell! The overpriced PC genre will never compete! PC gaming is dead! I'm not spending $3400 on a PC that won't have the power of the Cell or RSX!

...

Guys graffix don't matter! So what if we play games at half the resolution and half the framerate. We have more fun because we can use a controller! PC nerds can't do that! Hah!

...

I'll take my laid back TV experience over a monitor! I work all day I don't want to work for my video games! You can't get that from a stinky computer.

...

Guy PS4 is coming out! Our graphics are gonna be the best for years! Suck it PC we have best graphics and you don't and that's what matters!

My favorite part about PC gaming isn't the unlimited power or that it comes with cool sounding parts, the reason I choose PC gaming is I have the freedom to make a game run they way I want. Kill Zone: Shadow Fall will run at 30 fps on the PS4. 30 fps is very hard for my eyes, everything ends up being a blur.

I know the PC gaming market will always be a minority and I'm fine with that. I feel this time, though, more people may stick around on the PC for longer since so many people gave up almost entirely on consoles a couple years ago. People most likely to jump head first into new consoles will be console only gamers (silly people).

Also I know if I wanted to replace my lightweight HD 7850 for something that could outpace your magical teraflop numbers it would cost more to rebuild an entire PC than buy a PS4. Thankfully, I don't have to do that. I have an i5 3570k and if I wanted I could just swap out for a top of the line AMD HD 7970 and beat out twice the teraflops of the PS4 without replacing anything else. I also get to keep playing all the games from last generation, and the generation before. Heck, I couldn't find my copy of Final Fantasy 10 so I was playing that on my computer for a while too.

Also, I agree Gamespot's community has been found lacking in the past. Giant Bomb members seem to be capable of stringing together some sort of sentence.

Offtopic: My favorite awful community is the blizzard forums. I saw a topic about the questionable similarities between Warhammer 40K units and Starcraft units. Rather than putting up any arguments such around difference in gameplay or how the story lines have evolved away from each other, Starcraft fanboys would just go "lol thats games gay and british".

#36 Posted by OurSin_360 (822 posts) -

Yeah, gamespot is full of trolls/kids/morons. I was telling them pretty much the new consoles will be better optimized for gaming which will keep them on par with the pc for a while, and got crucified lol.

Thing is though, you got the money, you can just crossfire a couple 7970's and laugh. (until you have to wait for a patch that optimizes crossfire support) 0_o

Pc high and mid range cards will surpass ps4 in a year or 2 though. Honestly though, by then i don't think the difference will be all that much for normal gamers like myself.

#37 Posted by Humanity (8706 posts) -

Hopefully the system itself won't turn out to be a huge...............................................................................teraflop..

#38 Edited by ProfessorEss (7253 posts) -

Flops will only ever be so relevant in a video game industry discussion.

User-base, developer support, and marketing control the flow now (oh yeah, also money). Whichever machine dominants these will dominate the level of flop by which these games are optimised for and if your machine is more powerful than that machine you're just gonna be left standing there with all these extra flops.

#39 Edited by buft (3300 posts) -

yeh, but how many transistors does it have?

#40 Posted by Slaegar (684 posts) -

@professoress: Us PC gamers have settled with turning up AA and AF higher and higher for years. You can always find a use for extra power. Set SSAA to 8x and watch your framerate get stuck at 20 because you 170GB/s framebuffer is too slow at 16 million rendered and down-sampled pixels.

#41 Edited by Beforet (2911 posts) -

So, I'm a PC gamer primarily, so I feel kind of silly asking this. And I'm not trying to belittle anything or make a point, I honestly just don't know.

What the fuck is a terraflop?

#42 Posted by sku (37 posts) -

This is great but teraflops do not exist.

#43 Edited by AiurFlux (901 posts) -

Made up numbers about a product not even on the market with static hardware are the best things ever.

@rebgav said:

I think that my 580s only produce 3.2 teraflops combined. Hmm.

And so began GTX Titan Quest 2013.

Get the GTX 780. The performance is comparable to a Titan when it comes to games. I bought two 680s recently and I'm seriously debating giving them to my old lady just for two 780s.

Yeah. I'm fucking stupid and frivolously spend money.

#44 Posted by jakob187 (21640 posts) -

@marktheslark said:

Also, thanks for the mature replies. I tried posting this over there at gamespot and everyone flooded the topic with "lol your only level xx" "stupid tc are you trying to say garbage ps4 is better than PC?!?!"

Man that site's community is horrid and cannot have a legitimate discussion.

Dood, this is Giant Bomb. Of course we're fucking mature.

Now here's a picture of a baby's arm holding an apple.

#45 Posted by TJUK (96 posts) -

But what about the all important question; how many transistors does the PS4 have?

#46 Posted by RonGalaxy (2826 posts) -

The ps4 be tearin those flops UP!!!!!

#47 Posted by Irkjab (8 posts) -

@beforet: A flops is a floating-point operation per second, a teraflops is a trillion of them. A floating-point value is how real numbers are usually stored and handled on computers, especially for graphics calculations, so a GPU's theoretical computing power is commonly expressed in flops.

#48 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@marktheslark said:

I am seeing so much nonsense being posted everywhere from a lot of PC gamers saying that "the PS4 is weak" "already outdated hardware". This is FAR from the truth. That is, if you look at the facts and leave the fanboyism at the door. Even John Carmack says this, although I thought it was common knowledge, a lot of my fellow pc gamers seem to not understand this.

Here is John himself saying it on his twitter feed

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176

So even John Carmack, the man responsible for huge PC gaming innovations confirms it. A part used in a console has twice the efficiency of the same part used in a PC, as the PS4 is coded to the metal.

Therefore, you need a 3.68 teraflop GPU to equal the optimized 1.84 teraflop GPU in PS4.

The hardware in the PS4, IS, outdated in comparison to mid-high end PC hardware. The PS4 will be able to shine because games are extremely well optimised, right to the bone for that specific hardware, a luxury PC hardware is simply unable to receive because of the wide, wide range of set ups people have.

It's obvious stuff, how else do you think the PS3 and 360 can put out games that look anywhere near as good as they do now running off 8 year old hardware? The people that don't get this aren't worth responses.

This thread really didn't need to be a thing, you're just putting words in Carmack's mouth. Plus, what Carmack said is mostly speculation at this point.

#49 Posted by warxsnake (2634 posts) -

Cardinal rule of graphics card purchasing:

Wait for new console generation to come out.

Wait an additional few months to 6 months while you "slog through" games with your GTX570.

Purchase a new mid-to-top range GPU.

Profit.

In this case I will stick to my GTX680 while waiting for the 8 series to come out, which unlike the 7series, will be completely new chipsets.

Also some console games, even next gen ones, will still render at a native 720p or 1080p, while my GPU has to deal with a 2560x1440 resolution.

#50 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@lord_xp said:

I've also read that console architecture is easier to code than it is for a PC, making it run better on a console. I will look for the source that I read this at.

Uhh no, I doubt anyone would admit coding on the PS3 is easier than PC. It is obvious why people get more out of console hardware; there's only one set of core hardware to develop for, you can spend all your efforts squeezing out the last bit of performance without neglecting all the other potential hardware set ups out there. (hence why you can't quite do this on PC)