#1 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (4152 posts) -

Kotaku: Here's YouTube's Reply To Angry YouTubers About This Content ID Mess

YouTube is responding to gamers and YouTubers who are upset about the Internet video giant's extraordinarily aggressive new copyright sweeps. We've got a a copy of the e-mail they're sending out below.

You won't see an apology here. You won't see a change in policy. You'll see support for the Content ID system that's been more broadly unleashed on the reviews, features, Let's Plays and other video pieces created by YouTubers and watched by millions of gamers. Many, many of these videos have been flagged of late, blocking YouTubers from running ads on them and letting the supposed copyright holders to these videos run ads instead.

The catch is that many game companies aren't even claiming these videos. In many cases, music licensing companies are, as YouTube's bots catch a piece of matching music—even just a boss battle song or a song playing on the radio in Grand Theft Auto, or sometimes some music licensed for an indie game..

Hi from YouTube,

You might have heard about, or been impacted by an increase in copyright claims made on videos over the past week. We're getting in touch to explain what's happening and how you can get back to creating and monetizing great videos.

What's happening

Content ID

is YouTube's system for scanning videos for copyrighted content and giving content owners choices on what they want us to do with them. Last week, we expanded the system to scan more channels, including those affiliated with a multi-channel network ("MCN"). ..

Understanding Content ID claims

Keep in mind one video may contain multiple copyrighted works, any of which could potentially result in a claim. For example a record label may own music playing in the video (even in the background), a music distributor may own a game's soundtrack, or a game publisher may own in-game cinematic content.

Also, online rights are often resold to companies like music labels and aggregators. While you might not recognize the owner, this doesn't necessarily mean their claims are invalid.

Deciding what to do

When a claim is made, you'll see what's been claimed, who's claimed it, what type of claim it is (audio or video), and you can play back the part of your video that it matched. We want to make it as easy as possible for you to act on Content ID claims, and you can

find out all your next steps, dispute options, and other troubleshooting resources here

.

It's also important to know that most claims won't impact

your account standing

.

Tips for new videos

If you're creating videos with content from other people, remember that rights ownership can be complicated and different owners have different policies. Be aware of music. Many games allow you to turn off background music, while leaving sound effects enabled. And if you're looking for music you can freely use (and monetize!), check out our

Audio Library

..

Sincerely,

The YouTube team

So I guess Sessler wasn't crazy the first time. Hrm. So, if say Rev3Games puts RoyaltyFree music in the background of their gameplays, will Rev3 and others still be able to make money? It doesn't really seem to be the case. Mm..

#2 Posted by jimmyfenix (3829 posts) -

Dailymotion is alright you guys.

#3 Edited by Humanity (8805 posts) -

@blu3v3nom07: Well I'm sure Sessler can find work elsewhere.. peddling used cars or something..

#4 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

Someone needs to sue the shit out of google for this. Last Victim was Konami who got a contant ID claim claimed by Konami for stuff Konami owns....

#5 Posted by HellBound (1046 posts) -

Still have no issue with this.

One thing I think most people can agree on is that people should not but all their eggs in another person's basket.

This letter pretty much says by youtube "We know you are unhappy. Deal with it".

#6 Posted by HellBound (1046 posts) -

@darji: Except they are not doing anything wrong. At all.

#7 Edited by Demoskinos (14561 posts) -

@jimmyfenix: Daily motion is fairly wild wild west as far as content right now as there is a ton of softcore porn and junk people have uploaded. Dailymotion doesn't seem to give a damn either.

#8 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@hellbound said:

@darji: Except they are not doing anything wrong. At all.

Yes they do. The whole automatic system is broken beyond believe. Also they are rejected the income of people who even own their stuff. For example this:

Also successful disputes are getting claimed again by the system from the same Companies. Every other firm who get sued because of mistakes like that and I hope they will also and have to pay everything these people lost of their own pocket. They need to put some human work into this.

Dmca claims have a ton of regulations but this YouTube bullshit does not. Someone claims and the video is rejected of monetization on the spot. With a DCMA claim you have time to respond etc. I can not believe the stuff they are doing right now is legal at all.

@blu3v3nom07: Even Videos with Roality free music got claimed already as well. Hell someone posted a video of his dog playing in a pool and that got claimed even without any music etc at all.

@demoskinos You can find sex exploitation Movies like the Laura Gemser ones on YouTube with 2 million views on YouTube as well^^

#9 Posted by Demoskinos (14561 posts) -

@darji: Well its legal simply because its thier playground. It sucks but regardless they get to make the rules. Although you think they would be more sympathetic to the people who have made them billions.

#10 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@darji: Well its legal simply because its thier playground. It sucks but regardless they get to make the rules. Although you think they would be more sympathetic to the people who have made them billions.

Isn't that some form of contract breaching? I mean these artists for example make money out of this because they are in this program. How is this legal?

#11 Posted by Video_Game_King (35985 posts) -

@darji said:

@demoskinos said:

@darji: Well its legal simply because its thier playground. It sucks but regardless they get to make the rules. Although you think they would be more sympathetic to the people who have made them billions.

Isn't that some form of contract breaching?

No, because this is the contract (or, rather, ToS, which I doubt is legally binding).

@darji: Well its legal simply because its thier playground.

I feel like this is the go-to justification for shitty things. I can't explain much further, though, as I don't have many examples.

#12 Edited by CrimsonAvenger (263 posts) -

Still see no problem with YouTube's policies. They don't make copyright law. I don't get why so many people feel Google owes them something. I understand if false claims have been made but if you're making money off of copyrighted work(without permission as I have no problem if you do have permission) like some LP'ers are then they deserve to have their videos removed. Yeah, YouTube's system needs work but it should not be abolished. If companies like Nintendo do not want people profiting off of (or using) their copyrighted work then they have every right to take down videos.

#13 Posted by crusader8463 (14413 posts) -

Looks like there will be a new youtube coming soon then if they don't get ontop of this. People who live off this are going to need to find a new place to make their stuff. Such a shame too. I was starting to use youtube more and more as there are a lot of really high quality places out there and some of the people are making some top quality content.

#14 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@video_game_king said:

@darji said:

@demoskinos said:

@darji: Well its legal simply because its thier playground. It sucks but regardless they get to make the rules. Although you think they would be more sympathetic to the people who have made them billions.

Isn't that some form of contract breaching?

No, because this is the contract (or, rather, ToS, which I doubt is legally binding).

But they have contracts. They even have to give up a 30-50% profit cut depending on the channel.

#15 Posted by HatKing (5815 posts) -

I feel like this is opening the door for another company to dethrone YouTube. All they have to do is pull a Sony and go "well, we care about the customer, so we won't do [blank]" and suddenly they're the good guys.

#16 Posted by Milkman (16519 posts) -

...Informercial?

Online
#17 Posted by TurboMan (7396 posts) -
@darji said:

@demoskinos said:

@darji: Well its legal simply because its thier playground. It sucks but regardless they get to make the rules. Although you think they would be more sympathetic to the people who have made them billions.

Isn't that some form of contract breaching? I mean these artists for example make money out of this because they are in this program. How is this legal?

In Youtube's Terms of Service that you must sign in order to become a partner with them:

YouTube may, in its sole discretion, modify or revise these Terms of Service and policies at any time, and you agree to be bound by such modifications or revisions. Nothing in these Terms of Service shall be deemed to confer any third-party rights or benefits.

Nothing illegal is going on, just some people feel entitled.

I've said it before, if they feel bothered by this, they should leave Youtube and find a way to do their own stuff independently or hope an alternative emerges soon. Moping around on YouTube and being angry about how they play ball with Adsense money isn't going to get you anywhere.

#18 Posted by Crembaw (312 posts) -

Wow. Not even a safeguard against the licensers gaming the system against both users and companies?

Jesus.

#19 Edited by Dasacant2 (215 posts) -

@crimsonavenger said:

Still see no problem with YouTube's policies. They don't make copyright law. I don't get why so many people feel Google owes them something. I understand if false claims have been made but if you're making money off of copyrighted work(without permission as I have no problem if you do have permission) like some LP'ers are then they deserve to have their videos removed. Yeah, YouTube's system needs work but it should not be abolished. If companies like Nintendo do not want people profiting off of (or using) their copyrighted work then they have every right to take down videos.

Except in a lot of cases the companies do wan't people to be able to make these videos but the system still flags them. Also it is flagging things like trailers and reviews, hell even before this the youtube system allowed a company to take down videos of people just mentioning the game with no game footage because sega wanted their videos to come up first on youtube.

#20 Posted by Demoskinos (14561 posts) -

@turboman: Oh come on dude. That statement is ridiculous on every level. Of course people are going to be angry initially about it. Its their revenue stream and thats a normal reaction to someone threatening the way you do business. Secondly, I'm sure a good portion of them will adapt and figure out how to deal with the new systems.

That doesn't mean they are being crybabies because they want to vent a little bit about it. Thirdly, people are speaking up for a reason this system is BROKEN. There are absolutely absurd stories coming out of this. Peoples original music is being flagged, people who are doing vlogs about video games and even mentioning the name of specific games in their vlog are getting flagged. Hell, trailers for video games are getting flagged on the publishers own goddamn YouTube channel.

Sticking your head in the sand and saying play ball or don't is just shitty. The system is flat out broken. People don't want to uproot their entire channel and go to another site because they LIKE YouTube. Just like you like having a best friend who can sometimes be a real jerk. You don't want to just not be friends with him because sometimes he is a jerk you just want him to quit being a goddamn jerk. I don't think it's too much for the content creators to ask for a system that is more discerning in the way it flags things. This doesn't even begin to cover the amount of false flagging going on right now. People wanting YouTube to tweak the system to not be such a blanket shotgun approach isn't an unreasonable request. Considering these are the people who have made YouTube billions of dollars.

#21 Posted by EternalVigil (239 posts) -

Still see no problem with YouTube's policies. They don't make copyright law. I don't get why so many people feel Google owes them something. I understand if false claims have been made but if you're making money off of copyrighted work(without permission as I have no problem if you do have permission) like some LP'ers are then they deserve to have their videos removed. Yeah, YouTube's system needs work but it should not be abolished. If companies like Nintendo do not want people profiting off of (or using) their copyrighted work then they have every right to take down videos.

Most people who are not happy about this fully understand and agree with the principle of what Youtube is doing, as they have to follow the rules of copyright law as they are, and the need to have a copyright system to stop Youtube becoming a dumping ground for piracy, but the main issue raised is the system they have in place is really broken right now. As a lot of the companies who have put content into the content ID system are getting their stuff matched up to the most insane things right now.

That's not to the mention the very real problem of false claims that has been growing since this emerged as it's so easy to abuse the system and claim you own content you have no rights to, and because of the way the law is written Youtube has to side with the alleged holder of the copyrighted material first until the innocence of the channel who got the copyright ID strike can be determined, which can take weeks.

Nintendo have every right to make claims against LP videos, nobody's going to deny that. The main question is in an age of digital consumption of media on sites like youtube, where most people gain their knowledge about products, why would you want to remove all this essentially free marketing for your products? Watching things like LP's and quick looks can give you a better impression of how a game looks and plays in motion, which is very useful tool for people who aren't sure about getting it for themselves. I've personally gone out and picked up games I never would have thanks to some of the quick looks and LP's I've seen, it's much like in the old days when you went round to a friends house who had just bought a new game and you watched him play it and after that you rushed off and bought it yourself. Whether or not people should be able to monetize it however, is the issue.

This whole mess really reminds me that U.S. copyright law is in serious need of updating (The DMCA is over a decade old now, and doesn't take into account things like streaming and such), as there is way to much grey area in regards to what is considered fair use and it really needs to get cleaned up so this becomes less of an issue.

#22 Edited by bigjeffrey (4774 posts) -
#23 Posted by SpydrMrphy (88 posts) -

Whatever happened to the company whose motto was "Do no evil."?

#24 Posted by spraynardtatum (2598 posts) -

Google is evil.

#25 Posted by TruthTellah (8528 posts) -

Whatever happened to the company whose motto was "Do no evil."?

They got more money and power.

#26 Edited by Video_Game_King (35985 posts) -

I feel like I should upload a completely original video of my own creation and then file a copyright claim against my own video just to write about the experience.

#27 Posted by crithon (3075 posts) -

I'm still fascinated over how poorly some people are reacted by this "why not stop posting gameplay footage?" but then people are being flagged by Eastern Euro DJ remix of a song or another orchestra's recording of classical piece. Even if the youtuber were responsible, a lot of this stuff is almost impossible to find out unless you have an army of lawyers double checking everything.

#28 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

I feel like I should upload a completely original video of my own creation and then file a copyright claim against my own video just to write about the experience.

the sad thing is it will go through... Just use a video of yourself with no music whatsoever and you will still get a claim.

#29 Posted by CornBREDX (4793 posts) -

Google wont care until you start taking money away from them. I don't know if it would help, but maybe not making money with google and moving somewhere else would be a good idea if this is the problem. There are other sites to choose from.

Risky? Yes, but google (youtube) has already made your life difficult. Starting over is not the worst thing in the world when there are already people who know who you are.

#30 Posted by Milkman (16519 posts) -

This series of tweets is absolutely insane.

Online
#31 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

Man we really need a new copyright law about all this bullshit. I can not believe this is still so outdated. And googles system soooo broken

Rurikhan on YouTube has a video showing a capcom content claim on one of his dragon dogma videos at the 4:03 minute mark. The content claim was released by Capcom.

Some minutes later contentID served him another content claim for the same video at the 4:03 minute mark.

#32 Edited by GaspoweR (2793 posts) -

I think we all have to agree here that the system is broken, regardless of the legal issues, since the legal aspects aren't really the problem, its just how its being executed via Content ID, claim disputes, etc. is just flat, out broken. I think the only proper, short-term solution I could think of (which I admit it is not an elegant solution) involves a lot of human oversight and what I mean by that is YouTube/Google need to devote or hire more people to help with the stuff that were wrongly flagged and get it resolved faster.

#33 Edited by AlexanderSheen (4929 posts) -

This is pretty fucked up.

"Please, bend over... Was it good for you too? No? Well, too bad. Have a nice day :D

Sincerely,

The YouTube team"

#34 Edited by IAmNotBatman (627 posts) -

What, does Google even have HUMAN BEINGS working for them anymore? The fuck?

#35 Edited by Chaser324 (6322 posts) -

@darji: Nothing that Youtube is doing is at all illegal or something that could make them subject to a lawsuit. They're behaving entirely within their rights and the established ToS, and in fact what they're doing is actually an attempt to go above and beyond current copyright laws to protect themselves from lawsuits like the one they dealt with from Viacom.

It's totally fine if you want to make the claim that it's a bit of a dick move and that these efforts are overrreaching and poorly executed, but the bottom line is that there is no legal recourse for the people affected. If Youtube wanted to clean the slate and delete every video or remove monetization options entirely, then they totally could. They won't, but they could.

Moderator
#36 Posted by planetfunksquad (401 posts) -

I have a friend who makes shitty ambient music, he's done some work on TV in Sweden, but his personal music goes up on his channel.

His own stuff, on his own channel, just got Content ID flagged.

BROKEN

#37 Edited by Pr1mus (3807 posts) -

This will sort itself out in time, either with Google fixing this broken system or everyone relying on it to make a living going somewhere else when the situation is no longer tenable.

Considering that the people who actually make a living from their youtube videos all operate the biggest channels out there and thus make google the most money you'd think they would be more proactive with fixing the problems.

I can't see any instance of Google winning with how things are currently set up. Protecting themselves from some hypothetical copyrights lawsuits with a system this broken seems very short sighted if this leads to a massive exodus from anyone with a large popular channel. What then? They'll be protecting a big empty box of nothing i guess.

#38 Posted by Hailinel (23868 posts) -

I have a friend who makes shitty ambient music, he's done some work on TV in Sweden, but his personal music goes up on his channel.

His own stuff, on his own channel, just got Content ID flagged.

BROKEN

The more widespread this issue becomes, the more likely Youtube will do something to change it. Hopefully, anyway.

#39 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@chaser324: But they are basically stealing their revenue. Don't companies get penalized or have to pay a fine for false DMCA claims as well?

Here is another video of Nerdcubed getting a claim from Valve which is not actually coming from Valve, while in the meantime Family Guy clips showing up on the Main Youtube page...

Does Google/YouTube even still employ human beings at all?

#40 Edited by Chaser324 (6322 posts) -

@darji: From an ethical perspective, you could perhaps say that it's stealing revenue, but there's no legal grounds to make that claim. Also, these content ID flags and copyright claims are very different from DMCA claims.

This is the danger of relying on a service that you don't control as your primary revenue stream.

Moderator
#41 Posted by Video_Game_King (35985 posts) -

@darji said:

Don't companies get penalized or have to pay a fine for false DMCA claims as well?

These aren't DMCA claims, though. They're going through YouTube.

#42 Posted by maverick1 (92 posts) -

I don't see google giving any fucks until there is a mass exodus of content creators to another site. Or until someone successfully sues them and who the hell wants to sue a multi billion dollar company. What I don't get is why google has to completely screw over the content creators for having like 10 seconds copyrighted music. Couldn't they do something like split the revenue 3 ways. I mean without the content creator the video never would have existed in the first place making ad revenue. In some cases the ID claim is completely illegal too like reviews. also this system is really easy to abuse with all the false claims poping up.