Where is everyone on the sexism?

And just when you thought game reviewers couldn't become any more useless

Ok I bite. What would have changed? How would have it changed the story? How would she amke this game better? Because of one female character with no real connection? These hillbillies have a cause how would have Catalina changed that?

I dunno. GTA has always seemed like a reflection of the world. Sexism is in the world. Sexism is in GTA. Same with murder, racism, economic bias, weight bias. I dunno. It seems like it exists, then you can be offended by it, or not, depending on your personal experience and views. I think that will make the game better, worse or have an inconsequential effect.

There is a very nauseating paragraph in polygons review. If you dont like it, dont play. Sorry, but if your concern is about strong female leads in cartoons, you might want to start in real life where most female leads have to lie on their back and get naked for attention. Lets see, everytime i look at the hot topics its a Kardashian(sex tape), a snookie(sex tape), M. Cyrus(twerking), or that Gomez chic(dressing slutty). Yep, lack of females in video games are a prime concern. I like that is has become writers in the industry sitting on their, no talent needed horse, trying to tell talented people what to do, get over it.

Just to make it clear, you can play as a female character. In multiplayer. In like ten days. So there.

@marokai: Is it heavy-handed? Fuck ya it is. I consider myself a feminist, and I'm getting tired of it too. That said, the majority of the gaming community is so childishly toxic with homophobia, racism and sexism that I don't fault reviewers for trying to swim against the current.

I dunno. GTA has always seemed like a reflection of the world. Sexism is in the world. Sexism is in GTA. Same with murder, racism, economic bias, weight bias. I dunno. It seems like it exists, then you can be offended by it, or not, depending on your personal experience and views. I think that will make the game better, worse or have an inconsequential effect.

I haven't played the game (which makes me laugh at everyone being super serious about their response to reviews today, 99% of the populace hasn't even played the game !!!!) and I am only going on what I have heard about 5 and playing the previous GTA games.

In general I don't think the sexism in the game is any more of an issue than racism was/(still is?)in the previous games (which wasn't much of an issue), but I do think the more GTA takes itself seriously and fleshes out its virtual world and the more time passes between GTA entries, the bigger the sexism problem will become.

Obviously GTA is satirical in nature, the sexism in the game is the reflection of sexism in our own world, but I do think a strong female character could have help ease the obvious gap and be a point for R* to kind of not look sexist to a certain audience.

I work in marketing, and believe it or not more females are playing video games each year (mostly due to mobile but there is a correlation to console games), so these issue will become more important going forward.

I am not saying R* should have made a female protagonist just cause, but I do feel whether it is in comics, movies, tv shows or games; fleshed out female characters can add a lot to the narrative and realism of the game. If R* wants its game to be recognized on a higher level, they will eventually need to address this issue in some form.

At the end of the day this is fucking GTA, you know... the game that gain mass appeal for your ability to kill hookers and go postal in a virtual world, people should chill their expectations and realize what segment of the audience this game is made for (hot tip, they don't give a fuck about hipster hardcore gamers)

coming soon to next gen consoles: GTAV: Muh Hurt Feelings Edition.

I'm still of the mind that they should just make a customizable character so you can choose yourself.

But then again, GTA narrative usually goes in such a way that it couldn't happen.

GTA: Online out in like 2 weeks.

Meh.

I don't think most of you complaining about these reviews actually read them. But to save you the time, the issue brought to the table wasn't that there weren't enough female characters (so quit saying that anybody knocked points off for it not having a leading female character), rather that the existing female characters are shallow and stereotypical throw away characters - not matching the characters of the rest of the game (i.e.: and this is the truly fucking important bit, poor characters). I'm a bit hesitant to accept those complaints, they feel like a lot of what was thrown at Springbreakers (at which I say, you missed the fucking point). But seeing how none of us (at least not me) have played the fucking game and therefore have no idea what we're talking about, I'll sit here quietly and wait. Maybe the game is profoundly sexist. Or maybe it's a commentary on the adolescent male power fantasy and aggressive masculinity present in this medium (and this thread, specifically).

I feel like most of the people who cover and follow coverage of video games like to make a point of being on the high road whenever they can, even if it's with the best of intentions. This is why I've always respected a lot of what Jeff does; he rarely digs into people in pursuit of anything other than a good joke, and he's never had an "I hope they don't hear me say this" vibe to him.

I'm not blind to the sexism in media, but this is a video game about gangsters. They're probably going to pay women for all sorts of sexual conduct and they're probably going to know where the women who make their living in those circles operate. It's not unrealistic the way these things are portrayed and I don't feel comfortable criticizing a creative work for its mere creation, generally. If this were a Final Fantasy or BMX game, there'd probably be a problem. But it's a crime simulator. So.

This is a pretty good response.

I'm also wondering if Franklin, Michael, and Trevor are the only characters that are truly fleshed out. Are the rest of the men in the game also stereotypes?

True. I was just thinking something like Saints Row campaign / story, but the GTA narrative is always so character specific, whereas the Boss Saint is just referred to as "Boss" (or President).

@believer258:

Isn't the whole GTA series just an analysis of various stereotypes?

I guess we'll see soon enough. What I heard - and granted this is second hand information gleamed from a video review (which is already condensed information) - is that the male characters are more thoughtfully created, even when they are goofy stereotypes it is still building them as characters, whereas the female characters seem to be one-note jokes. Who knows? I could see it going either way on this one. I imagine this wasn't what the Housers were going for, but if they failed in their message I could see it coming across this way. Regardless, it sounds like they nailed it on the fun aspect. So much so that even those most sensitive sexism were still able to enjoy the game enough to consider it one of the best of the year. I'm not really sure what there is to complain about when none of us have played it.

Okay, finally got around to reading the gamespot review (MULTI-PAGE REVIEWS MUST DIE)... I still agree with the general disappointment around the lack of female character development, but I just can't seem to agree with Petit's citing certain aspects of the game to be misogynistic. She points out that there are exaggerated misogynistic undercurrents but they are not in service of satire but in celebration of sexism. I just cannot bring myself to believe that the team at Rockstar put an ad in the game that encourages women to buy perfume to "smell like a bitch" and not have it be read satirically. How is something like this not meant to be in service of satire when everything else in the game is?

Here's what it seems like some critics are saying:

It's not that you don't have a playable female protagonist, but it's that the females in GTA V aren't up to the same caliber as the three male protagonists you play as. In fact, that the females aren't really strong characters at all, and they are mainly there for the pleasure of the males. Along with that, the game doesn't go out of its way to critique the elements of sexism that it includes and instead opts for just putting it in there as part of the atmosphere.

But what do I know. I haven't played GTA V. What I do know is that having played Saints Row IV, I know the female characters in that game are pretty strong. The story may not be anything special or life impacting, but the main female characters are treated with a lot of respect. I expect the significant female characters in GTA V to get the same amount of respect, especially since GTA is the biggest deal in the game world right now.

I'm asking those who have played the game: Are there any significant female characters in GTA V comparable to those in Saints Row IV. What makes them special? From all the reviews I've read, I've seen a lot of Michael, Franklin, and Trevor, and not much of anyone else.

nah, an exploding head expresses how I feel right now.

Yeah, too much sexism. I hated how they portrayed men as criminals, balding, all misogynistic, horny opportunistic thrill riders. as a man, it really fucking offends me to no end. I wish the video game industry would wake up and look at how unfairly it portrays us. I want a sensitive GTA, I dunno.. maybe next time the lead could be voiced by Michael Cera, that would be neat.

Well we've finally hit the bottom of the barrel here, folks.

I find this thread sexist because there aren't any female posters.

I don't know why I'm here, but meh. I'll throw in my two cents.

There can totally be a case made that women are portrayed unfairly or barely represented in several video games, but I don't see GTA V being the battleground for such a discussion. If the past games are any indication, everybody in that world is either a dirtbag or a victim of a hit-and-run regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, whatever.

I'll be here playing the game and having fun. I think it's also important to note that the script and voice work was most likely done WAY before Sexism was even an issue. If they have such an issue with it, once Online hits Play as a Female. Problem Solved.

@supamon: I know this is more of a joke, I think, but I have abstained from discussion mainly because I haven't seen or played any if the game. Speaking like I know anything about it would be a bit premature. However, based on the few things I've read, my only concern is whether the female characters have actually regressed in their portrayals. I remember playing GTA 3 and finding the female characters to be pretty interesting and well realized. I hope that the reviewers are actually blowing the issue out of proportion, but if the female characters are worse than the ones in a decade+ old game, then I would be really disappointed. We shall see. I personally can't wait to see this game, since most reviews are oozing praise with very few complaints to speak of.

@jadegl:

You're definitely right in that we should abstain commenting since nearly none of us have played the game yet so many seem to be experts on the subject already!

We'll only know after playing the game but GTA has always been extremely satirical with characters who are over the top and nutters in some way (Brucie anyone?). In this day and age everyone is overly sensitive to everything. If GTA 4 was being released now for the first time Roman would criticized as a male chauvinistic pig who only hounds after titties which he is but the point is I come to GTA expecting to see broken people. It's not like the depiction of men in the game are any better and that's okay with me.

And yes, my first post was a joke on the fact that I saw some people complaining that the game is sexist because there isn't a playable female lead.

gta is satire

Everyone except the main character and even them are stereotypical and sarcastic. GTAV is filled with assholes and stereotypes. This game has no "good" character and the only one well fledged characters are Michael, Trevor and Franklin.

Oh! you've played the game to completion then? So you know that as a fact? Great! /sarcasm.

I'll see after I've played it. But GTA games of the past, have not been full of role models. They are filled with satirized, caricatured, awful people. Male and female alike.

I already played like 12 hours and I watched maybe a 10 hours of streams before. Also it is very typical for GTA as well and I don't see that changing. In GTA games even the police or the normal "good guys" are total assholes and awful. That is why the world of GTA is interesting because of these extreme characters.

gta4 had some decent female chaters nikos red girl fread

Well damn, now im just jealous. So uh FUCK YOU! (for no good reason).

Honestly the whole sexism thing wouldnt even be registered with me. Like if people never complained about sexism (if there really is any) i doubt i'd notice. I find it weird in general when people are offended by entertainment. If you dont like it, watch / play / do something else. Right?

Whatever, im just chilling on the boards till im tired neough to sleep and play it all day tomorrow when it shows up from amazon so whatever!

If you look for it you will clearly see it. If you look for racism in this game you will also find it. In the first like 30 minutes you will see the first parody of an extreme feminist just like you will see a politician who wants to legalize weed. This world is totally fucked up and extreme.

Aw crap, now I've posted and made it even more sexist because I haven't developed my background enough in this male-focused thread. :C

I'm gonna go call Anita on myself, that will make everything right in the world again! Hooray!

If Jack Thompson said that Persona 4 was homophobic, Lara Croft getting hurt was in fact "her being sexualised", or GTA5 was about celebrating misogyny, we'd all be laughing at him for getting it so wrong. It's funny how times have changed, and people are actually defending people like Carolyn, Patricia, and Anita for these bizarre kinds of claims.

Bottom line: WOOHOO GTA IS OUT!! WOOOO!!

Awwww hell the sexism is through the roof up over here! I got a lady to post though so I guess I helped achieve inner yinyang balance? :p

Yeah it's weird times we live in. Onwards to a better future I say!

I really can not say if this is sarcastic or not but damn if real you really have problems. No one is saying this. But accusing every game of sexsim because you play not as a female or because women are as sterotypical as men in this game is just stupid. Why not try to find real sexsim and misogyny in games because you know they really exist.

I'm the second person to address problems with your post. :c

Perhaps you should take your own bolded advice?

I mean, there's so much to address here. You practically buried your post in attacks against various groups (white anglo-saxons, men, calling gamers 'mouthbreathing neckbeards',) and then you say "Sexism is bad!" It's pretty weird.

I might not have a beard, and have not yet killed enough elephants to build my totally awesome penis tower treehouse, but c'mon. You're sending some mixed messages here.

pretty much

all the white males in this thread sure are angry

Yup, but the weird part is that every time these debates crop up, it really is usually dudes getting mad at other dudes, which is kinda funny given that it's supposed to be in defence of women.

<Mad Dude Group A> i think this is sexist because this game about guys has guys in it, and there arent many female criminals blowing shit up. yes this is true of life too, but maybe games are encouraging women to not be murderers, and that is terrible

<Mad Dude Group B> what the hell. you are making me mad. feminazis everywhere! well what if i am offended that this man is muscley! gosh! think of my feelings.

<Some chick> I am so pumped for GTA5! It's goddamned hilarious and I can't wait to screw around in a helicopter! The writing in this shit is PERFECT, the psychopath is amazing, I can't wait to play as him!

<Mad Dude Groups A&B> whatever i don't care to talk much about the game itself, i'm just here to be mad at the controversy!

Yeah, I'm generalising these sexism threads as normally being full of dudes, but that's because... y'know, they are. Full of dudes. Mad ones! That's how they generally play out. The men and women who love games continues to love the games, and understand that the characters and settings are integral for the story that the writer wishes to portray. The men and women who get mad at things continue to get mad at things regardless.

GTA V is antithesis of a misogynistic game. The entire plot is about the pathetic narcissism of masculine fantasy.

All three main characters are assholes who are in someway or other irredeemable people. One literally watches 80's action movies and tries to play them out while committing crime because it makes him feel cool.

Our characters are:

1. A greedy up-jumped street hustler with delusions of grandeur
2. A narcissistic white collar criminal who poisons everything around him, especially his family and friends, who is too caught up in his male power fantasies to actually do anything for his family which he despises because of the way they respond to his shit attitude and behavior
3. An actual psychopathic redneck drug dealer who seems to be the most principled of the three, with the small caveat that those principles involve beating to death anyone he perceives as having disrespected or lied to him, which just happens to be pretty much everyone.

>B-BUT WE'RE SUPOSED TO SUPPORT MAIN CHARACTER

>NO FEMALE CHARACTER WAHH

>MISOGYNY OUT OF 10 WAH

What the actual fuck is wrong with people? Grand Theft Auto games have always been about shitty people doing shitty things.

Also, the people who for whatever reason feel the need to focus in on these kinds of (non)issues are inconsequential statistic as far as the big publishers are concerned. This is evidenced by the fact that only the most incompetent of the big publishers (EA) has made any attempt to pander to them, and it's usually only been to deflect heat off their own asses.

This is one of those problems that really would just fade away if you ignored it, and didn't make martyrs and leaders out of the loudest whiners by threatening them and giving them attention.

In the end no amount of shit flinging perpetrated by either side of this argument will change anything. Business only cares about the bottom line and the reality is that slacktivists just aren't worth more than sex and violence. Not by a long shot.