#1 Edited by Barrabas (326 posts) -

So the demo came out for this, at least for 360. I'd assume it's on PS3 as well but I don't have one to check. (Edit: Apparently not on PSN yet)

The demo consists of a local multiplayer option and a single player mode. The single player is a short version of what I assume the arcade mode will be. You fight a very short series of opponents that are available in the demo and it ends in a fight with Doomsday. I don't know if they already announced this but the available characters for the demo are Batman, Wonder Woman, and Lex Luthor. Unless I missed it I don't think it lets you remap the buttons on your controller in the demo. I can see where you remap your controller in the options menu but can't select it. So that might be annoying for people who use 3rd party controllers for fighting games.

The gameplay feels very much like MK9 with stiff animations and a built in combo list. If you didn't like MK9, I don't think this game is going to change your opinion on NetherRealm's style of fighting games. However, it will probably still be the best fighting game to feature DC characters because well their track record for this is crap. It would be hard not for this to be the best fighting game featuring those characters.

My one major complaint so far is the way the life bars work. When you finish a round they don't reset to put you on even footing. The winner retains however much life he has remaining from the first round going into the second. In this way the loser of the original round will be at a disadvantage in health and be fighting an uphill battle in the second round. I know this isn't the first fighting game to do this, but being a DC Superhero fighter it's going to appeal to a very large casual audience. That type of life bar is very anti-casual player in the way it works. It's going to make getting into online play extra difficult for those people, and this is a game that should be trying to appeal the most to the casual fighting game player market. My only other minor complaint is that I hope the full game has more options for what the winning character says after the match. If not we'll be hearing "stay down" a lot.

So I have some complaints, but overall I think it will be a game I enjoy. What do you guys think?

#2 Posted by ShaggE (6710 posts) -

Definitely going to play this demo later. I pre-ordered this game on a whim (I *never* pre-order. Ever.) and on the good faith of MK9, so hopefully the demo leaves me with a good impression.

#3 Edited by BeefyGrandmole (355 posts) -

Doomsday punched me all the way through the planet and back again. I then kick him into a helicopter and ran him over with my car. I like this game. And seeing the goofy mini games and alternate costumes in the trailer at the end pretty much sold me on it.

Edit: I love all the environment attacks and multi tier arenas and the clash system is super fun. It saved my ass.

#4 Posted by Morbid_Coffee (955 posts) -

Impressions from what I played:

The good

  • Darkstalkers-esqe life/round system makes it feel really fresh and different from all the other fighting games out right now.
  • Timer freezes during super animations and area transition animations, which prevents timer scam wins.
  • Move list up front lists frame data for you. Which is kind of amazing.
  • Ability to "tag" moves from the move list to have them on screen at all times really goes a long way to helping people learn how to play.
  • Clash system is a really good high risk high reward thing.

The bad

  • Neatherrealm still doesn't know how to do pallete swaps right. It's very confusing when you're watching/playing a match with black suit Batman versus EVEN BLACKER suit Batman. At least make him blue and grey for player 2 or something different.
  • Still has the very stiff Mortal Kombat animations which always bothered me. It's not enough to say the game is bad, but I could never get over it.
  • STAY DOWN STAY DOWN STAY DOWN STAY DOWN STAY DOWN STAY DOWN STAY DOWN
#5 Posted by mrfluke (5345 posts) -

  • Still has the very stiff Mortal Kombat animations which always bothered me. It's not enough to say the game is bad, but I could never get over it.

i get the feeling this game was kind of cheap to make, as this game reeks of them using the mk9 tech.

once we make the jump to the next consoles it should be better

#6 Edited by Morbid_Coffee (955 posts) -

The stiff animations have nothing to do with the game being cheap. Mortal Kombat has always had that type of animation since the first game. It's just the way Neatherealm games play.

#7 Edited by chilibean_3 (1697 posts) -

I don't really like it when the life bar is used like that. But I ain't no fighting game expert.

#8 Edited by HistoryInRust (6407 posts) -

  • Move list up front lists frame data for you. Which is kind of amazing.

That was a huge issue with Mortal Kombat, if I remember. People were clamoring for that data and NetherRealm didn't divulge any of it. Neat to see it here.

Stoked for this game.

#9 Posted by Infamousn89 (36 posts) -

I might be missing something but I have been unable to perform any level transitions, environment attacks are as simple as a shoulder button but anyone else have an issue with the transitions?

#10 Edited by Morbid_Coffee (955 posts) -

@infamousn89 said:

I might be missing something but I have been unable to perform any level transitions, environment attacks are as simple as a shoulder button but anyone else have an issue with the transitions?

You can charge your A button attack. A fully charged attack in the corner usually does the trick. In the demo stage, I think it can only be done on the right side of the level.

#11 Posted by Barrabas (326 posts) -

@infamousn89 said:

I might be missing something but I have been unable to perform any level transitions, environment attacks are as simple as a shoulder button but anyone else have an issue with the transitions?

You can charge your A button attack. A fully charged attack in the corner usually does the trick. In the demo stage, I think it can only be done on the right side of the level.

It's back + A to do the level transition. You can charge it, but you don't have to. It's the right side of the stage if you're on the roof, and the left side if you're in the streets. So it will probably be stage specific where you can do it in the full game.

#12 Edited by Infamousn89 (36 posts) -

@morbid_coffee: hey thanks man

Besides that though, the demo has me much more hyped, even though I was already pretty excited.

#13 Posted by Dolphin_Butter (1917 posts) -

Personally, I didn't like what I played of the demo, but none of the three included characters clicked with me. If there's someone on the roster who plays like Rain in MK9, then I'd probably jump in. Some nitpicks include the stiff animations--as many mentioned--and the dead-eyed gaze of the character models. I'd also like to see what the netcode is like before even considering a purchase. MK9 had a great lobby system but was pretty laggy.

Still, I can't wait to see what the pros do. I certainly feel the game is capable of great things. Oh, and the interface is really clean; I like it.

#14 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3997 posts) -

Nice taste of the game, but I need the full version to really sink myself into it. I need to sink time into practice mode to get a feel for what I'm doing in there.

I'm not much of a fighting game guy but I love MK and especially MK 9, so I have faith in Netherealm. I'll be there on release.

Out of the demo characters, I found myself liking Wonder Woman most, though Lex had a nice variety of moves.

The stiff animations have nothing to do with the game being cheap. Mortal Kombat has always had that type of animation since the first game. It's just the way Neatherealm games play.

Exactly. Always bugs me when people say this is a flaw... it's how the game plays and some people like it quite a bit.

#15 Posted by casper_ (908 posts) -

not very impressed so far

#16 Edited by GunstarRed (5476 posts) -

I've always like the stop-startyness in MK animations, It really separates it from most other fighting games.

As someone that adores DC and goes nuts for 2D MK games I was left with a huge grin on my face. It just feels right. Everything feels like it hits with so much force and the amount of moves available to you is great. I liked all three of the characters, although Wonder Woman can probably do a bunch of fancy stuff with switching weapons that I couldn't get the hang of. Batman and his zip kick/batmobile supermove was fun and Lex was far more interesting with the drag move, dashes and laser catching. I was surprised how much I enjoyed using him as I tend to go for the faster characters.

I knew I was getting the game, but really didn't expect to be as impressed with it as much as I was. Really, really good demo.

#17 Edited by TechnoSyndrome (961 posts) -

They should really have put some kind of tutorial in this demo because I had no idea what the fuck I was doing. Also it seems like it's MK9 style dial-a-combos, but unlike MK9 they don't actually list them in the move list? So you have to figure them out yourself?

Did not enjoy my runthrough of the demo at all, maybe someone will post some instructions on how to properly play the game but right now I have no interest in this game.

#18 Edited by MightyDuck (1524 posts) -

I enjoyed the demo, just not sure if I want to plunk down $60 out of the gate for it. Don't get me wrong, I loved MK9, and really like Batman. I could see myself eventually picking this up when it gets a bit cheaper.

#19 Posted by Barrabas (326 posts) -

@taku128: All the basic combos are shown in the move list when you pause just like MK9. Are you just looking at the quick reference and not selecting the actual move list?

#20 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Yeah still hate how Netherrealm animate characters. Characters look stiff and juggle states look dumb as hell.

I wish they'd solve this, makes me not want to play or watch their games.

@mrfluke said:

@morbid_coffee said:
  • Still has the very stiff Mortal Kombat animations which always bothered me. It's not enough to say the game is bad, but I could never get over it.

i get the feeling this game was kind of cheap to make, as this game reeks of them using the mk9 tech.

once we make the jump to the next consoles it should be better

Nothing to do with the consoles, Tekken, Street Fighter and others all manage to have some really great animation work put into them on the same hardware.

#21 Posted by casper_ (908 posts) -

honzo did a quick guide if you are interested

#22 Posted by mrfluke (5345 posts) -

@sooty said:

Yeah still hate how Netherrealm animate characters. Characters look stiff and juggle states look dumb as hell.

I wish they'd solve this, makes me not want to play or watch their games.

@mrfluke said:

@morbid_coffee said:
  • Still has the very stiff Mortal Kombat animations which always bothered me. It's not enough to say the game is bad, but I could never get over it.

i get the feeling this game was kind of cheap to make, as this game reeks of them using the mk9 tech.

once we make the jump to the next consoles it should be better

Nothing to do with the consoles, Tekken, Street Fighter and others all manage to have some really great animation work put into them on the same hardware.

i dont necessarily agree with you there, cause A netherealm is a different developer than those guys so its not out of the possibility that they can reuse their tech and keep costs lower. and as someone that played aLOT of MK9, the animations in injustice and even the way the cutscenes animate look very similar.

and B the tekken games TO ME that have appeared on this gen hardware to me look like they have the same animations in their characters (6 and tekken tag 2), same with at least the street fighter 4 games (not counting street fighter x tekken)

#23 Edited by Fredchuckdave (6158 posts) -

Game's pretty fun, I'll probably buy it when the price drops just to do all the challenges and play the story mode. The AI seems to be a bit smarter though still somewhat likely to cheat a la MK9 (eg. the first time you jump/toss a projectile Mileena does a tport punch on very hard, even if you haven't done one for the first half minute of the match). Demo kind of badly needs a tutorial of some sort, even a static image that explains basic stuff would have been a good idea. Don't like the "armor" type abilities, the environmental stuff is okay but kind of just annoying much like the "clash" system; doesn't really feel like it belongs in an ostensibly competitive fighting game.

Surfaces a huge amount of information about each attack which is neat and combos feel solid much as they did in MK9/MK vs DC. There doesn't appear to be a super tight timing system like there was in MK vs DC which is fine but I'd like if there was some cosmetic or +1% damage type things to incentivize better timing. Projectiles seem kind of hopelessly slow (unless you embed them at the end of combos) and they still have the "vortex" type stuns which are generally annoying.

@infamousn89: You can build a forward forward R2 into a combo to chain it into a level transition (uses 2 bars of super)

#24 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

@sooty said:

Yeah still hate how Netherrealm animate characters. Characters look stiff and juggle states look dumb as hell.

I wish they'd solve this, makes me not want to play or watch their games.

@mrfluke said:

@morbid_coffee said:
  • Still has the very stiff Mortal Kombat animations which always bothered me. It's not enough to say the game is bad, but I could never get over it.

i get the feeling this game was kind of cheap to make, as this game reeks of them using the mk9 tech.

once we make the jump to the next consoles it should be better

Nothing to do with the consoles, Tekken, Street Fighter and others all manage to have some really great animation work put into them on the same hardware.

i dont necessarily agree with you there, cause A netherealm is a different developer than those guys so its not out of the possibility that they can reuse their tech and keep costs lower. and as someone that played aLOT of MK9, the animations in injustice and even the way the cutscenes animate look very similar.

and B the tekken games TO ME that have appeared on this gen hardware to me look like they have the same animations in their characters (6 and tekken tag 2), same with at least the street fighter 4 games (not counting street fighter x tekken)

I was saying that the consoles (as in technical capabilities of them) have nothing to do with the animation quality of Netherrealm games, as Tekken, Street Fighter and so on, are all on the same hardware as MK9 and Injustice but look pretty great.

I guess you just meant maybe Netherrealm will improve if they make another engine (so probably new console time right?), I doubt the MK9 tech is what is forcing them to animate like they are though but at the same time I don't understand how they can put a game out with the animations of MK9 and think it looks good, I think they are terrible.

#25 Edited by mrfluke (5345 posts) -

@sooty said:

@mrfluke said:

@sooty said:

Yeah still hate how Netherrealm animate characters. Characters look stiff and juggle states look dumb as hell.

I wish they'd solve this, makes me not want to play or watch their games.

@mrfluke said:

@morbid_coffee said:
  • Still has the very stiff Mortal Kombat animations which always bothered me. It's not enough to say the game is bad, but I could never get over it.

i get the feeling this game was kind of cheap to make, as this game reeks of them using the mk9 tech.

once we make the jump to the next consoles it should be better

Nothing to do with the consoles, Tekken, Street Fighter and others all manage to have some really great animation work put into them on the same hardware.

i dont necessarily agree with you there, cause A netherealm is a different developer than those guys so its not out of the possibility that they can reuse their tech and keep costs lower. and as someone that played aLOT of MK9, the animations in injustice and even the way the cutscenes animate look very similar.

and B the tekken games TO ME that have appeared on this gen hardware to me look like they have the same animations in their characters (6 and tekken tag 2), same with at least the street fighter 4 games (not counting street fighter x tekken)

I was saying that the consoles (as in technical capabilities of them) have nothing to do with the animation quality of Netherrealm games, as Tekken, Street Fighter and so on, are all on the same hardware as MK9 and Injustice but look pretty great.

I guess you just meant maybe Netherrealm will improve if they make another engine (so probably new console time right?), I doubt the MK9 tech is what is forcing them to animate like they are though but at the same time I don't understand how they can put a game out with the animations of MK9 and think it looks good, I think they are terrible.

ah, thats what you meant

to what your currently saying, netherrealm does use a new engine each gen. so i still think it will improve, may not improve the way you might want ( i do see why you dont like the animations of those games even if i do like them) but it will improve

hell, actually thinking about it

next gen could be where they fix their animations issue, as if you didn't like the way mk9 and injustice handled.......you definitely wouldnt have liked the older last gen mk games, they made big improvements imo.

#26 Posted by mrfluke (5345 posts) -

@sooty: i actually went back and looked at those games after our conversation cause i was curious myself

and then heres a clip of injustice for direct comparison

they have a certain style of animation they do on their games, but just watching these 2 videos, to me they have definitely made progress, took them about 10-11 years but hey :P

#27 Edited by casper_ (908 posts) -

@mrfluke: what the fuck is happening at 1:04 in the injustice video (as batman bounces off the panel). i think that maybe they arbitrarily tie their animations to the frame data they have already attached to moves/movement (for gameplay reasons i would guess) which would lead to that kind of really herky jerky, stilted kind of movement.

#28 Edited by Ares42 (2797 posts) -

The demo is sorta tiny in scope, but I liked it. Not a big fan of the super-powers and stage changes though, takes you too much out of the fight. Some of the genius behind the X-rays in MK9 was that it looked super-cool but was still just an attack animation and not some long cutscene. Also got really tired of the end animations really fast, they just go on way too long. I get that they're trying to introduce cutscenes and story to the genre, but keep it to the seperate story mode and let me just fight in ladder mode.

#29 Posted by Happenstance (468 posts) -

Just playing the demo now. I like a lot about the presentation of the game with the super moves and stage transfers but Ive got to admit im struggling a bit with the fighting system. Just havent really been able to get many combos going with any of the characters and while I know MK is slower than most fighting games as well, theres something about the moves in this that makes it feel even more sluggish.

#30 Posted by churrific (485 posts) -

It's weird. I really like the look of the game when it's not in motion, but it looks like crap in fight. First (obvious) impression: pretty much feels similar to mk9, which is good or bad depending on if you liked mk9's engine. Inputs feel more responsive. I like that you can see the throw breaks. Environmenal stuff seems to be unblockable? Kind of lends to a new metagame with spacing so you don't get caught in that stuff. I just hope they give us the option to turn off the long animations for the supers. I think it'll be a win/win like mk9 was though. Either it'll be great competitively, and we're all going to have lots of fun solving the puzzle of this game, or it'll be terrible, but it'll be terrible in a very enjoyable way like mk9 was.

#31 Posted by Carryboy (748 posts) -

As most others have said feels stiff dont like it much never feel in control of my character, movement doesnt feel crispy.

Anyone else get their mind blown when they saw a cross up for the first time?

#32 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -

The game does feel a bit stiff, which is mainly the reason I disliked both watching and playing MK9, but it sure does look cool and I think I'm willing to give it more of a chance because I enjoy the presentation so much more. I feel that the elaborate animations behind the special moves and stage transitions will eventually get old, though, but maybe there'll be enough of the that it won't be that bad.

I'm not too sure how stage transitions work, how clashes work or how environmental attacks work as well as other intricacies in the combat and the demo doesn't explain it.

Hopefully the netcode isn't horrible.

#33 Edited by MrHadouken (206 posts) -

Can't play the demo because my Xbox Gold ran out last week, so now I am forced to just watch videos and play MK9... which I am totally fine with. I have a total MK bias, despite my name here. I've enjoyed every single MK game to come out, even the terrible Sub Zero and Jax spin off games, granted I was a lot younger when those were out. But i had always found the fighting more enjoyable and satisfying in MK. So this being a NRS game, I pre-ordered in good faith.

#34 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3906 posts) -

Looks fun to me.

#35 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

lol after playing the demo, this is so true

I'll be skipping this one on release. It's a shame because it is visually very nice, the stage stuff is cool but it doesn't play that well.

#36 Posted by ShaggE (6710 posts) -

My one takeaway thus far from watching videos (I forgot that the demo requires Gold): As cool as the win animations are, I'm already sick of Lex Luthor's. That's my only real complaint so far... the animations are just too long for something you'll see hundreds and hundreds of times. That goes for the supers as well. Batman backflipping over the Batmobile should be the best thing ever, not a "get on with it" moment. I get that these are "replacements" for X-Rays and Fatalities, but still.

#37 Posted by MEATBALL (3489 posts) -

I love Netherrealm's choice for animation and the sense of impact punches and kicks have, I think it's a stylistic choice that works extremely well for them. The game seems fine, I'm not too into the game's overall aesthetic, though. Also, Batman's neutral pose? Ugh.

#39 Edited by Barrock (3553 posts) -

Impressions from what I played:

The good

  • Darkstalkers-esqe life/round system makes it feel really fresh and different from all the other fighting games out right now.
  • Timer freezes during super animations and area transition animations, which prevents timer scam wins.
  • Move list up front lists frame data for you. Which is kind of amazing.
  • Ability to "tag" moves from the move list to have them on screen at all times really goes a long way to helping people learn how to play.
  • Clash system is a really good high risk high reward thing.

The bad

  • Neatherrealm still doesn't know how to do pallete swaps right. It's very confusing when you're watching/playing a match with black suit Batman versus EVEN BLACKER suit Batman. At least make him blue and grey for player 2 or something different.
  • Still has the very stiff Mortal Kombat animations which always bothered me. It's not enough to say the game is bad, but I could never get over it.
  • STAY DOWN STAY DOWN STAY DOWN STAY DOWN STAY DOWN STAY DOWN STAY DOWN

I didn't understand the last "The Bad".

I played the demo. And now I fully agree.

#42 Posted by MrHadouken (206 posts) -

Well I broke down and purchased a month of xbox live gold. I am impressed, this to me doesn't feel like MK9 except the button inputs. I like that the characters move slower. The interactive environments, I hated seeing in the videos, but now playing with them I absolutely love them. This serves my fighting needs, simple and satisfying.

#43 Posted by OurSin_360 (947 posts) -

Demo was nice, i only play with batman right now just trying to actually learn a character. I haven't picked up a fighting game in years but i really enjoyed the gameplay with this. Demo itself could be better, only 3 characters but you get teased by doomsday which sucks, and you have to sit through a 2 minutes movie showing the same features of the game everytime you beat the single player. Definitely should have done an online demo with 4 characters, test the servers out and feel what it's like to play against other people if you don't have people around.

#44 Edited by HelicopterSpy (149 posts) -

Wonder Woman has some really neat stuff, I think. Her jump with the lasso is NUTS and she can air dash on top of that. The lack of a lab in the demo is a bummer, I just wanna sit down, get a feel for the moves and figure out some combos. I played a whole lot of MK9 and this game does feel like that in some ways, but pretty different in others. It's cool that the move list gives frame data and all, but I really wish it would show what state it leaves the other player in. Launchers, knockbacks, bounces, etc.