ENB Looks at Lords of the Fallen

So EpicNameBro, a Youtuber who is probably most famous for his Souls playthroughs and has worked with Namco Bandai on Dark Souls 2's guide, has made a video in which he discusses a preview build he received from Namco Bandai. And as you would expect from him, he goes in-depth on the combat system and the similarities and differences between this and the Souls games.

Of course, this is an early build but first impressions seem to be positive. It does just enough things differently from the Souls games to be interesting (the Perfect Timing system, "kill streaks", banking experience) but personally the rigid (and mandatory!) magic system, fixed protagonist and really slow pace turn me off.

Anyway, what do you think?

This is great! Thanks for posting this. I've been looking for more information on the game. I just don't know what platform to get it on. :S Have you heard anything that would say one version is better than another?

Game itself looks really interesting, and I think it's got a ton of potential, boasting some gorgeous visuals and what seems to be great combat. I also appreciate the ways in which it differs from the Souls' series, it'll be interesting to see how they decide to shake things up in order to make the game feel unique. Yet a lot of what makes the Souls' series so special is how diverse the games themselves are, the absurd degrees to which the developers go to keep things varied and to constantly keep the players on their toes. Sometimes that comes at the price of polish, numerous sections clearly not up to the standards of others; yet it's necessary, as if a Souls game ever got stale, ever got predictable, it'd lose it's magic. And I say that as about as big of a fan, of the franchise, as you can be.

We'll see what they do with the level- and enemy design in this game, that'll ultimately swing it one way or another, far as I see it. Really, really hope they pull it off, though.

As for this video, can someone explain to me why this guy obscures most of the gameplay with his mumbling face? I appreciate listening to him, but that is bad editing, inexplicably so for someone so prolific.

I was worried that this game was going to be straight-up lip service for Namco considering the tight connections... but actually his assessment/opinions of the game seem very fair. He definitely levels criticism at the things he didn't like about the game. It's a good video and I agree with his points. This game looks interesting and I'd like to see either what reviews will say about it or a... Vinny Quicklook, perhaps?

Side question: If I'd never played a souls game before, where should I start? Dark Souls 1?

@koolaid: If you have a PS3, Demon's Souls is on sale this week for $9.

The game play looks good and the timing system sounds like a good way to differentiate it from the souls games. But I cant say I'm a fan of the lack of character creation and especially character builds. The thing that gives the souls games such replay value is the ability to create vastly different builds that completely change the way the game plays, without that I don't see it having the same staying power.

Well, that was embarassing. I tried posting this earlier today but got 404ed and kept hitting post! Oh well, clean up, isle five.

@shuareborn: Haven't seen anything online yet and ENB played the PC version, so nothing there yet.

@do_the_manta_ray: I think he mentioned that in the beginning. He's trying out a new format, him off-screen means a more descriptive section, showing what he's talking about, on-screen means his opinion on the game as a whole. Granted, it is a bit ham-fisted way of sectioning them off and it doesn't really work out right, but it gets the job done.

@koolaid: I would say Dark Souls 1. Others might disagree though.

@gaff: He did mention it, and it does get the job done, you're right on both accounts, I just think it's a supremely bad way of going about it. VaatiVidya, another recognizable Souls' commentator achieves the same effect by including a small, red frame to the gameplay, which is noticable but in no way distracting. He simply fades it in and out as needed. The fact that epicnamebro's thoughts immedietely went to a big close-up of his face is all kinds of telling. To be fair, I will however say that I do enjoy his actual commentary.

@koolaid: Dark Souls 1 is very cheap at this point, it's also arguably the best game in the franchise. That said, Dark Souls 2 does the best job of explaining it's many, varied mechanics, and it's also a terrific game in it's own right (accounting for the DLC, I'd say it's very close to being as good as the first game). Depending on how you rate your own patience, go for the first or the second one as needed. I wouldn't tackle Demons' Souls until I'd played one of the other games first as it's by far the most punishing experience from the outset.

@rednorthernwind: It might end up having a similar level of custimization as you get deeper into the game, there seems to be a wide variety of weapons and armour, and the crafting system seems pretty cool. I doubt it'll quite hit that same level of silly-ass builds, but I'm not worried about it gravely lacking in that department either. The fact that your character has a set personality and look in order to serve the story is disappointing for anyone who wishes for another Souls' game right here and right now, but the story they're telling may very well vindicate that aspect. Though to be fair, how your character looked in the Souls game didn't matter a damn once you started equipping your armour. Why I spent hours on making my ladies pretty and will do so again in Bloodborne remains a mystery to me.

@gaff Thanks man, and yeah that's what I thought. It's driving me crazy because I'd like to pre order and get the bonuses but I really want to get the best version. Ah well. Might have to wait it out and miss out on that stuff.

That said anyone think the pre order stuff is worth it?

Spells seem like a sore spot, but they were also not particularly good/interesting in Dark Souls (Spam whatever OP spell) or Demon's Souls (spam ridiculously overpowered spells), in Dark Souls II the spells are really solid; so maybe in Lords of the Fallen 2/3 there will be a better spell setup. As far as character specialization it's hard to say based off just a demo and not having a created character is a good way to prevent the game from being completely identical to Dark Souls. You definitely should be coming to a Souls Clone for the melee combat and exploration and it really seems like this game does both of those well.

Luck was in Demon's Souls so not sure what ENB's so angry about on that front.

@koolaid: If you play Demon's Souls at any other point than first you'll probably not like it very much as almost the entirety of World 5 is terrible and if you have any Souls experience it's quite easy aside from 2 bosses. But if you play it first you should enjoy it well enough, it was certainly an extremely interesting game at the time, was just a matter of whether the series would get better (it did). You get 2 rings in the first area and they're by far the best 2 rings in the game.

I imagine he just prefers the luck system in the Dark Souls games, where luck isn't a levelable stat. I think I'm in the same camp. If I'm constantly having to choose between making my characters abilities better and tuning the RNG, I feel like I'm wasting EXP.

But I'm pleasantly surprised by ENB's description of the combat. Like several folks above, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the world is large and varied.

@thatdudeguy: Well nominally Luck is a bad stat that's occasionally useful; it's still better than "Resistance" at least. Of course there could be a Blueblood Sword or something that makes Luck the greatest thing ever.

@sterling: Thank you, kind sir, for this heads up. I'm a huge Souls fan but only played DeSouls with a friend a few years back. I always wanted to buy it but for some reason never acted on it. I'll now be giving this a rip!

I'm curious to see how this will received by the "Souls" community upon release.

28th? Dang, we haven't heard much about this game at all 'til now.

Definitely don't care for the art style at all, but I do like the animations and the impact of both the player and enemy weapons. Those daggers didn't look satisfying at all, and I don't like dinky careful-button-press attacks in games. Gonna turtle up to the fullest extent when I buy this. I just hope there's more than a measly 8 hours of gameplay.

And yeah luck stats are always stupid. "Magic find" is such a confounding thing to me. If you're always wearing the most 'magic find' armor you can then what exactly are you hoping to find; more 'magic find'? If you have an addictive personality you're not going to say "enough is enough; time to enjoy all this cool armor I'm getting;" you're gonna keep using 'magic find' until you get bored of the game. It's totally ridiculous. It's a design convention that takes advantage of humans' propensity for indulging in illogical behaviors, while eschewing any goal of 'fun.' Don't reward the player for grinding and sinking hours into your game for no reason at all; reward them for playing well or choosing to explore.

Also, in many genres and games (not necessarily this game or Souls games), I find it dumb to reward a player with more powerful items for playing well. Why would you make the game easier for better players? Totally stupid. But that's another topic.

Since ENB was one of the main forces behind discovering and piecing together the Souls games' lore, I can see why the direct storytelling of LOTF is a little boring to him. As someone who enjoys a good narrative, whether it's directed or organic, I can easily see myself enjoying this one.

As for the art style, it's clearly more fantastical than Souls, but I think that's actually quite appealing. All in all, it's great to look at, and most importantly, looks fun to play. Isn't that most important?

I guess I wouldn't mind a gateway into the Souls games as I've barely scratched the surface of any of them. Lords of the Fallen has some neat ideas like the regenerating health and the risk/reward of going deeper into levels. Might pick it up.

Also, with this and Deep Down joining the fray, is this becoming something of a sub-genre? If so, what ultimately defines it?

I vote on Soulslike being the genre name. I'm making this happen.

This looks much better than any of the PS4 footage I've seen. It's kind of perturbing to see such a huge difference in image quality so early in the generation.

I suspect Souls purists will hate it. Fortunately for me, I like games other than Souls so not slavishly recreating every aspect of Dark Souls isn't necessarily a negative for me.

@impartialgecko: Dang at first I thought "wtf this game has always looked like this right?" and then I went to watch some recent-ish actual ps4 gameplay again and you are right.....where the eff are all the particle effects on ps4 for example !? the boss' flaming sword with particles flying everywhere that was so predominantly showed in the trailers actually doesnt look nearly as cool without all the fiery shit flying around on ps4..... they did go for 60fps so maybe that was to be expected though sadly.

@lestephan: Personally, I'm not fussed about 60 fps in third-person action games as much as I am when it comes to first-person shooters. The Souls games ran and played fine at 30(ish) and I'd rather have that extra horsepower making the game look pretty.

Oh I thought someone had put out an ENB mod already to maybe enhance the visuals and make the game look a bit better.... oh well.

I played this PAX (it tucked away somewhere and no one seemed to care about it, no line what so ever) and largely agree with what he says. I would say even though the general presentation was way more polished than any souls game, the actual gameplay didn't feel as tight as DS. Hard to put it in words though, the feel was like 90% there, still very interested in it. Enjoyed it overall.

You can't expect them to be going for that, though. They're trying to carve their own thing out of a very specific blueprint. It does have some neat things going on. Hopefully the package sits right with enough people for it to matter.