Lords of the Fallen Discussion (Spoilers in the later posts)

Copy arrived today, there was a 4 gig download to start out with but I played while the download was going and it worked fine, no crashes or anything. Firstly the game feels fantastic, it's everything you would want from a Souls game except I think there's a little more fluidity in some cases. In Dark Souls almost every early game enemy has very little poise, but in this game each enemy has varying degrees of it and you have to get used to how much damage will stagger XYZ enemy. One of the toughest early game enemies staggers very easily but if you don't get right up in their face they can completely destroy you (assuming you're not wearing heavy armor); there's just a lot of variety and feel to how you approach each enemy type. Crossbowmen don't just stand there when you get right next to them, they shoot a crossbow bolt in your face quickly; so you have to be conscious of that as well.

I'm playing a rogue which is really interesting/decently challenging so far. I've died three times in 2 hours so far (I didn't die in the first 2 hours of either Dark or Demon's Souls), once due to forgetting how one of the first boss' attacks works and the other two due to not having any estus (must have more exp!); but even when I'm not dying I still have these exciting narrow escape situations. The "timing puzzle" as it were of each weapon is quite difficult, especially when you're fighting a large enemy that can kill you in 2 hits; and while I suspect most people will stick to one trusty combo or another mastering all of them for each different weapon would take you an insanely long time. Users of the L1/R1/L1 combo might be surprised to learn that there's another step to that combo with another followup R1 (there's other ways to do it as well). The L2/R2/L2/R2 combos seem extremely difficult to pull off but when you do they swap the third and fourth step in the R2/R2/R2/R2 chain which might be useful for some enemies. It's actually really difficult to keep your focus on the combo timing outside of the easiest ones while also dodging a boss' attacks.

In terms of aesthetics the game looks great (playing on PS4), it's not extremely smooth but shocker for you: neither were any of the Souls games on consoles. The lighting engine is extremely nice in the game and a lot of the armor looks great as well. There seem to be distinctions between basic enemies visually if they wind up hitting harder or self reviving or what have you, so if you're paying enough attention you can see when that will happen as well. The game does not feel slower than the Souls series (which is a very methodically paced series so that complaint made absolutely no sense anyway), though the slowest attacks might be more difficult to pull off.

Random stuff: Barrels give loot! Perhaps the biggest improvement over the Souls franchise which cruelly rewarded us barrel smashers with very little, barrels in this game are your best friend. If a wall has cracks in it then jump your fat bald man ass through that shit. It seems like you can charge up the grenade on the gauntlet, though I have no idea why. The loading screen tips are extremely aware of their audience it seems:

Greastest Mystery! Cool. Thanks for the impressions. My copy should be here tomorrow. After the quick look and reading this I am pretty pumped to play.

I'm more and more tempted to try this ... hmmm

$350 XB1 and this would make me very happy this holiday.

Indeed, the rogue class is awesome and a bit harder then the other classes.
However, when you get the arrowheads and know how to use them properly, it actually becomes quite easy, just don't get hit too much :)

Thanks for the impression, gonna pick this up on ps4.

One thing I really want to point out: This game has excellent tutorials. Like, even when comparing it to games nowadays period, not just the Souls-games (which basically had a control explanation). When I say good tutorials, I just don't mean that they tell you what the systems in the game are, but they're actually really well written. It feels more like a personal learning experience, a conversation almost, except without the awful dudebro-esque puns and jokes around every corner which are so common in game tutorials nowadays. I mean just look at this wall of text you get after defeating the tutorial boss, writing a tutorial text this long that makes you want to read it in it's entirety is a damn achievement if I've ever seen one.

PS. I'm playing it on a high-end PC with everything turned up. It runs well at a steady 60fps, but will occasionally freeze for about a second, during which the game goes on despite not moving on your screen. Can be very bad for tight fights and whatnot. Thankfully it's rare enough to not have gotten me killed even once yet.

For my part I'll dick around and experiment a lot with as many weapons as I can find; just seems like a blast so far.

There's totally a fifth attack in the L1/R1 series; land that whole thing and you one shot a spider (450 damage or something), against Commander this knocked him out of his phase transition so he skipped his first and third spawn waves, but on his second he spawned 2 guys instead of 1.

Early game spoilers, nothing too serious:

So I finally cleared out the spider area and there's a second secret wall by the Human Skull pickup; but when I picked up the item it didn't popup on my screen, anyone know what it is? I also had an interesting experience where midcombo I teleported up one level directly above where I was; impressively the spider I was fighting actually tracked me back and I encountered him halfway back to where I was.

You can see it in the QL, there's a small emblem picture accompanied by the name of the boss. The localization is very good which in this way makes it way worse than the Souls-games.

YOU FELLED

@fredchuckdave: I've been waiting for an impressions thread so I could ask this. I don't like Souls games. I've tried all three, and I just don't like how slow it is and how "heavy" and clunky the character feels. I also am not a big fan of the stamina meter. I would love strategic, methodical combat that varied enemy to enemy and the RPG elements (collecting weapons, armor, etc.). I guess I'd like Souls if it felt like Kingdoms of Amalur but had the same level of strategy and difficulty. Does that describe this game?

I'm glad to see that people have had a generally positive impression of it. I also appreciate the level of detail you go into for the more minor details that change from battle to battle, as the reviews I've read didn't go quite that far. I've got a bunch of games to finish for the time being, and they'll probably keep me busy until Dragon Age, so I'll probably wait until a holiday sale for this. Who knows, I might not be able to wait that long.

I have a really hard time believing you'd enjoy the combat of Lords of the Fallen, because if anything, it feels even more clunky and heavy than that of the Souls-series. Or, at least during the early hours. Maybe once I've sunk enough points into agility I'll be sprinting around like a dude in his underwear.

How's the frame rate holding up on the PS4 version? I will be unable to play it anywhere else, and I've seen some reports about a sub par frame rate on consoles.

@sunbrozak: Played around 3.5 hrs, generally very good, although I did run into a glitch where everything was running at around 0.75 speed (seemed a lot like a memory leak). Had to reboot the game and its been fine since.

Watching IGN's video review now, why doesn't IGN know how to set up gamma levels yet?

Oh man, you're making me want this game - reviews have me on the fence since they're mixed but not terrible.

Will see how I feel this weekend.

I want to give this one a try later on, so much stuff coming out soon.

It's good to see that it's a competent off-brand Souls game. Maybe this will help kick start a bigger trend in these types of games. Are there any Metroidvania influences in this game like in the Dark Souls games?

So I spent like 15 attempts trying to kill "Worshiper" without taking damage (including a greedy 1% hp failure) and inadvertently discovered what must be the "secret" way to kill him. It's definitely worth trying out different stuff on the bosses, had a really fun time with it.

There is some really nasty shit down the optional routes, at least for a rogue to deal with. But there's also some nice loot a la Valley of the Drakes. I think I figured out how to fight the turtle enemies (though it seems to work on a lot of stuff), which is pretty amazing and hilarious.

@mbradley1992: The combat is very Dark Souls-esque; it's a bit easier with some of the classes and depending on how you approach it. I'd suggest renting it and trying the rogue class (which can be quite punishing); if you can get the feel for the dual wield combos they do a ridiculous amount of damage and you don't have to swing a really slow weapon around.

Wait for the Digital Foundry verdict?

12 hours in now, I spent like 4 doing the harder zone first; took a while to find that second lever... There's a pretty constant feel of exploration in the environments, and even in the random quests you get. My character is starting to feel legitimately powerful (and not merely because of my ability to do stuff), which happens in the Souls series as well but hard to say what the impact will be here over the course of the rest of the game. There's some neat effects on certain weapons, one acted like a pseudo Red Tearstone ring and another lost damage the more enemies you killed with it (but started out with extremely high damage for the requirements). I guess they wanted to up the lavishness of God of War for chests:

Quick question based off one of the reviews I read about this game; do you just basically find stronger and stronger gear/weapons as you play through the game ala Diablo, or is it like Dark Souls were you can use any weapon through out the entire game as long as you upgrade it properly?

The loot is more like Diablo. There is no weapon upgrade mechanic in this game.

@indure: You find stronger weapons as you go, but the way you upgrade weapons is with sockets so if you find a 3 socket weapon randomly earlier on you can wind up using that for longer. In addition for Dual Wield weapons the damage output is extremely high if you're linking all the combos appropriately, so for bosses and other large, slower opponents an inferior dual wield setup can well out-damage a nominally superior weapon. Dual Wield fighting feels kind of like DMC's risk/reward system for boss fights, where you can try to stay in there and do as much damage as possible but if you screw up then you'll get punished for it.

In Dark Souls II you really can use any weapon and virtually any build is viable, in Dark Souls there's only a handful of early-mid game weapons that are particularly viable later on, with some of them being extremely ubiquitous (Zweihander, Uchigatana). In Demon's Souls there's only a few weapons that are in the higher tier altogether (Blueblood, Meat Cleaver).

That's somewhat disappointing to hear. I really loved how different each weapon handled in Dark Souls. Do weapon's still have move sets and different handling? Or is it just 3-5 general weapon categories that handle differently from each other, but for example all hammers would still swing the same and have similar reach and speed?

@indure: There's around 10 categories from what I've seen, but each weapon has a different amount of stamina used and a different timing on the particular weapon's attacks (some are slower, some are faster), which is very relevant if you're trying to pull off the perfect timing. Weapon variety feels very akin to Dark Souls in that regard, though I don't think I've encountered a strictly of identical set of weapons in the game yet (i.e. Falchion to Kilij in Demon's Souls); it's entirely possible that there aren't any. There's also weapons that have special attacks a la Moonlight Greatsword (though haven't encountered a projectile one yet). One of the enemies in the game wields one of the slowest player weapons at an extremely fast clip so there might even be a fast bigass weapon somewhere in the game.

@indure: There is a set amount of weapon types in the game, shortswords, longswords, daggers, axes, small axes, greataxes, greatswords, hammers, bigger hammers, poleswords, poleaxes, staffs, and so on. Each weapon type has it's set of animations and attacks, and can either be held in a two-handed grip or be dual-wielded.

Each normal hammer, to use your example, will have the same moveset, but speed, attack, the ability to block with it, range, how well it scales with your diffierent attributes and a sleeve of other stats does vary from weapon to weapon, even in the same sub-category. That said, there are certain, rare weapons that are an exception to that rule, and have completely different animations or attacks. You gain a lot of these ones from clearing the special conditions on beating a boss. For instance, you'll get the greatsword that the first boss uses if you kill him without taking any damage, and that weapon will allow you to use some of his moves. You'll get a "normal" version of that weapon if you beat him normally.

There's a ton of different weapons in the game, and I've had a blast trying different ones out. They really dictate your playstyle, perhaps even more so than the Souls' games.

@groin: There is infact an upgrade mechanic that you'll unlock later on. It's basically socketing runes a-la Diablo. But you use boss souls instead of gems!

This game looked amazing on PC. I really want to play it but I never could get into any of the souls games. I did play them all at least some but nothing really past the first boss or so. Would I have a better shot playing this or should I just pass on it?

I just picked this up as I am a crazy Dark Souls fan. I managed my expectations since reviews claimed it was Dark Souls but just a little less mostly.

Well, so far I think they are absolutely right. You can immediately tell this doesn't have the immediate control of Dark Souls. I think the game feels a bit sluggish. Almost as if it's not as responsive as it could be. But interestingly, that aside... this game ain't too bad. In fact, it's pretty good.

If you're a Dark Souls fan I'm pretty sure you will like this as long as you're not going in hoping or expecting it to one-up Dark Souls. To put it in perspective, as far as first impressions go, Dark Souls is an easy 10, this seems like a solid 8. Well worth it.

Thanks for all the replies.

@do_the_manta_ray: I wouldn't call that upgrading the weapon though. Socketing a rune is not the same as making your weapon + 15.

@jnal: It can feel quite punishing depending on your approach/how much you explore but if you just play the game normally with a powerful character build it shouldn't be quite as taxing as Dark Souls.

Well, that depends on why you quit playing them.

Seems pretty good, very nice looking opening logos. Thats all I've been able to see so far considering the game is a broken mess that won't launch for me

Wait.... they literally call the games healing items "Estus"????? There is borrowing, then there is shamelessly ripping off and looking stupid.

I changed my mind, I don't like this game very much at all. You fight the same enemies over and over, the bosses aren't particularly challenging they just take a long time to take down. Tons of translation errors and misspellings. I dunno it's like a really well polished B game, which I know sounds like an oxymoron.

@getz: Are you playing Warrior out of curiosity? Also most bosses can be killed in like 45 seconds (not easy to do, but possible).

@karkarov: No, it's just healing potions (and empty bottles, what a ripoff of Zelda). They're Estus though, let's be real.

I've had some crashes, nothing too horrific but the main thing is whenever you beat a boss or whatever make sure you go tap the save point because the game very rarely autosaves.

playing cleric with def magic

@getz: Ah, that will likely be my second character though I'll probably focus on the spellcasting stuff (gauntlet seems to be where most of the variety is). Haven't really heard a lot of feedback from the Cleric crowd as of yet. Enemy variety seems solid to me, the game just doesn't phase out the old enemy types while adding new ones along the way (though some of them get buffs and some of the variants behave quite a bit differently); keeping in mind that the game is shorter it doesn't necessarily need 50 different enemies. Shield bashing is fun.

I've played a bit of it on Xbox One just defeated the first boss of the game. It's pretty good so far but the framerate is pretty poor most of the time. I've been noticing it dip quite frequently especially when I first stepped outside. It hasn't gotten to the point where it's ruining the game for me, but it's pretty disappointing that it fluctuates every other second.

@vierastalo: I guess I ultimately stopped because for a number of things. The obtuseness of it all and the overall atmosphere felt empty and hollow to me and not engaging in anyway. I wanted to like it but ultimately couldn't get deep into it. That was the charm of the game for lots of people but not me I guess.

So apparently each of the games' areas is fucking enormous; like 3-4 times the size of Anor Londo in terms of the amount of stuff there is. I went down to the catacombs for like the 8th time and still found new stuff that I hadn't seen before. I wandered around the citadel for a while and could not figure out what the hell one switch or one key were for; and then I randomly rolled into a barrel and the wall got destroyed. I then exclaimed "WHAT!?" incredulously. The key mystery may be solved later, but Mr. switch did not defeat me this time.

Based on the QL, Gamespot's review and what you duders were saying about this game I picked it up last night digitally on ps4. Runs okay, some frame rate issues but nothing too bad. I didn't die till the worshiper boss and died a couple of times to him just being stupid, it held my interest and was engaging enough for me to play that far in one sitting. 1 on 1 the combat is pretty good, some enemies are really defensive though. Boss fights have been pretty cool and I like how they change up their tactics/look as you kill them. I have a big problem when facing multiple enemies (same as ds but even a bit worse), I guess you can use your gauntlets to agro enemies but I havn't found a good way of pulling enemies like I did in DS with the bow.

Just got the the ability to put runes in weapons, and I do like how much your gauntlet can change, I should probably use it a lot more since I'm a cleric (the hammer has been a lot of fun). Whats the artifact I need to know how to kill bosses in a "unique" way like the tool tip says?

Lords of the Fallen isn't obtuse. It very explicitly explains each of it's systems to you in-depth. Now if you thought that the atmosphere in the Souls-games was somehow empty, hollow or not engaging, I'll be damned if this game does you any better. It looks far more stock, and five hours in I'm yet to see a piece of character or environmental design that would strike me as unique or fresh. Now if you felt the Souls were empty and hollow due to the lack of a strict narrative, well, you've got that here. It isn't a good narrative but there sure is quite a bit of dialogue to be had with other characters in a traditional RPG-style. If you really feel that that might save it for you, go for it. I don't think it will.

I donno about that one. I definitely wouldn't call it "very good." I'd call it "usually good; sometimes confusing; often clumsy." The good part is that either the voice actors themselves or the voice coach (assuming there was one) seemed course-correct, evidenced by subtitles and dialog options that appear in poor English, but are spoken much more fluidly and correctly by the voice actors. The weapon descriptions, specifically, are laden with broken English.

I'm currently (I assume) near the end, and my only huge complaint is the gauntlet weapon. I just... don't get it. Why not just give us a bow/crossbow? It's so lame.

edit: and as far as crashes go, I got my first crash 11 hours in. I've had one more since then. Not really that bad, in my mind. I don't mind backtracking in this game at all, because the combat just feels so cool. I even like simply running around; the way Harkyn moves and the sound everything makes is just super satisfying.

edit 2: Oh yeah, and I lost 64,000 xp earlier. That sucked. Guess what? That one powerful swing the First Warden does? It still hurts. Don't get hit by that.

I feel like i would be having loads of fun with the game if it was not for the crashes or it running kind of like dogshit on my system, the higher the framerate goes in some areas the better the game feels. I have that constant urge to keep playing it or to boot it up when I'm not. But atm I will have to put it down and wait for the patches to fix some of the more severe issues. The last one for me was after getting the Worshiper special weapon, it's heavy attack ability would consistently crash the game. (after i've spent all my points leveling faith specifically to be able to use it).

Harkyn has a gigantic stick taped to his spine. This guy cannot run properly, he looks like ed from ed, edd, and eddy. The quick look is driving me crazy.