#1 Posted by Demoskinos (14826 posts) -

I think what they did with the game was pretty decent but after Sundowner the game really felt rushed with the last few missions being really short levels with very few enemies and series of boss fights.

Speaking of the final boss was a bit of a pain in the ass. I could not for the life of me cut the boulders he threw at me then I finally realized that you can just straight up dodge them which makes the fight way way easier. The levels also mostly felt pretty bland and coming off of Devil May Cry where the highlight of the game is arguably the level design that really stuck out to me.

The combat felt mostly okay but there were still spots where the camera became unwieldy. Also, the sub weapons outside of the pole arm are useless. Seriously. I'm almost always someone who can enjoy a good heavy weapon but the pincers seem utterly useless considering the pace of the combat and how suddenly you need to parry at times. The Sai could be semi-useful I suppose but why you would choose that over the pole is lost to me. I liked the game overall I guess although i think DmC is head and shoulders the better game if you only want to throw down with one character action title right now.

I'll most likely track back through the game and get all the collectibles for fun and then take on the VR missions. After that we'll see if I feel like going for more trophies or not. Considering Platinum Games inherited this game like it was a dying patient they manage to salvage the project into something pretty decent. Although, I think more time to flesh out the game would have been better. I mean the fight against Samuel was extremely disappointing. He was by leagues the easiest boss in the game. I got an "A" rank on him first try. Anyways more or less my impressions. I hope they make a proper sequel and get the proper time to actually make the thing go. The Blade mode is a mostly well executed concept and the combat was fun. If for some reason you read all of this spoilers and all and you haven't bought the game and are on the fence I'll reiterate what others have said. Short game, I wouldn't buy it unless you are a Metal Gear fan or are the type that like replaying levels over and over for rankings and trophies.

Anyways, Im out. Post thoughts below.

#2 Posted by rebgav (1429 posts) -

I've just finished my third playthrough and started on my first "very hard" attempt. The game is beautifully brutal on the harder difficulties, insisting on a strong understanding of the mechanics and punishing you for errors, which is a relief given how forgiving the "hard" difficulty is.

I found the final boss to be the easiest in the game, at least on the hard and normal difficulties, which is symptomatic of a problem that I can see developing on my current run; there are very clear "correct" strategies for each boss which seem to work regardless of difficulty level (and, let's be honest here, those strategies are always some variant on bum-rushing the fool). While they can mix-up the enemy types and tactics in each combat scenario to keep the game challenging and fun, I think that the boss fights are going to be a bit disappointing once you figure out how to deal with them.

I think that there are still severe gaps in my knowledge as I haven't messed with the secondary weapons and I'm still trying to figure out how to shorten/prevent Monsoon's invulnerable phase but so far the combat seems to be complex enough (after unlocking the full moveset) and fun enough to keep me going for several more playthroughs.

I didn't care for the story or most of the characters and I still haven't messed around with the codec messages. It all feels appropriately Metal Gear but it's a bit too bland for my tastes. If they'd taken the end-game twist as a starting point and built upon that level of silliness I would have found the story much more entertaining, I think.

I would recommend this game to fans of Platinum's other action games (S-ranking every combat on Revengeance difficulty should fill the time between now and Bayonetta 2) and suggest that Metal Gear fans maybe wait on a price drop or rent the game if possible.

#3 Posted by SecondPersonShooter (618 posts) -

I think what they did with the game was pretty decent but after Sundowner the game really felt rushed with the last few missions being really short levels with very few enemies and series of boss fights.

Speaking of the final boss was a bit of a pain in the ass. I could not for the life of me cut the boulders he threw at me then I finally realized that you can just straight up dodge them which makes the fight way way easier. The levels also mostly felt pretty bland and coming off of Devil May Cry where the highlight of the game is arguably the level design that really stuck out to me.

The combat felt mostly okay but there were still spots where the camera became unwieldy. Also, the sub weapons outside of the pole arm are useless. Seriously. I'm almost always someone who can enjoy a good heavy weapon but the pincers seem utterly useless considering the pace of the combat and how suddenly you need to parry at times. The Sai could be semi-useful I suppose but why you would choose that over the pole is lost to me. I liked the game overall I guess although i think DmC is head and shoulders the better game if you only want to throw down with one character action title right now.

I'll most likely track back through the game and get all the collectibles for fun and then take on the VR missions. After that we'll see if I feel like going for more trophies or not. Considering Platinum Games inherited this game like it was a dying patient they manage to salvage the project into something pretty decent. Although, I think more time to flesh out the game would have been better. I mean the fight against Samuel was extremely disappointing. He was by leagues the easiest boss in the game. I got an "A" rank on him first try. Anyways more or less my impressions. I hope they make a proper sequel and get the proper time to actually make the thing go. The Blade mode is a mostly well executed concept and the combat was fun. If for some reason you read all of this spoilers and all and you haven't bought the game and are on the fence I'll reiterate what others have said. Short game, I wouldn't buy it unless you are a Metal Gear fan or are the type that like replaying levels over and over for rankings and trophies.

Anyways, Im out. Post thoughts below.

I hate myself for this, I really do, but as a Metal Gear fan I really didn't like the thematic direction they went for in this game. The rest of the Metal Gear games had their ridiculous moments to be sure, there were cyborg ninjas since the first MGS, but you were always just a regular soldier operating around with regular guards, and the ridiculous over-the-top stuff that happened would be more effective because it was outside the norm. But with this game, they've just turned Metal Gear into a non-stop action anime.


However, by the last mission, and oh my god what a final boss fight, I kind of came around to the theme they took. That entire boss fight just played like a parody of Metal Gear Solid, and it was hilarious, and overall amazing.

But, to make this post a complaint sandwich, I thought the soundtrack to this game was horrible. Sometimes it had the sweeping orchestra movements you'd expect to hear from a Metal Gear game, but a lot of the time it would just be really shitty Nu-Metal Dubstep, even if it's meant to be appreciated from an ironic standpoint, it still just sounds really bad.

#4 Posted by rebgav (1429 posts) -

However, by the last mission, and oh my god what a final boss fight, I kind of came around to the theme they took. That entire boss fight just played like a parody of Metal Gear Solid, and it was hilarious, and overall amazing.

I was really turned-off by the reveal of the final boss and his tedious rhetoric...

...right up until "Nanomachines, son!" At which point I realized that it was totally self-aware. Probably. Either way, that made it more palatable.

#5 Posted by SecondPersonShooter (618 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@secondpersonshooter said:

However, by the last mission, and oh my god what a final boss fight, I kind of came around to the theme they took. That entire boss fight just played like a parody of Metal Gear Solid, and it was hilarious, and overall amazing.

I was really turned-off by the reveal of the final boss and his tedious rhetoric...

...right up until "Nanomachines, son!" At which point I realized that it was totally self-aware. Probably. Either way, that made it more palatable.

Exactly duder. It's hard to make me laugh when I'm just sitting by myself, and I lost my shit at "nanomachines, son"

#6 Posted by ArtelinaRose (1851 posts) -

While we are talking about the final boss, I fucking LOVE how you lightning fast punch him EXACTLY like Gene does from God Hand. I love you, Platinum.

#7 Posted by clumsyninja1 (817 posts) -

I think that if these game had not been done by Platinum, it would have never seen the light of day. Can't wait for what Platinum has to offer on the PS4...

#8 Posted by ArclightBorealis (1563 posts) -

Well, the game did have a much shorter dev cycle than what Platinum is used to. I think for the time they had to scrap and rebuild a dead project the finished product felt pretty incredible, aside from a few rough spots like the camera and the shorter chapters near the end. R-05 and 06 could've easily been combined into one chapter.

If anything the bosses impressed me the most, something that I was severely disappointed in with DmC (Visuals gimmicks don't excuse a boss that is dull to fight, Bob Barbas). Hell, all of the boss fights with Desperado and Senator Armstrong surpassed even Bayonetta's boss fights, with the except of Jeanne. Mistral had great progression between the different arenas and the music build up. Monsoon was fucking unbelievable and is easily my favorite fight out of the whole game. Sundowner and Sam weren't as great in comparison, but still fun to fight. And then of course there's Armstrong, which is oh so ridiculous and incredible.

#9 Posted by Demoskinos (14826 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@secondpersonshooter said:

However, by the last mission, and oh my god what a final boss fight, I kind of came around to the theme they took. That entire boss fight just played like a parody of Metal Gear Solid, and it was hilarious, and overall amazing.

I was really turned-off by the reveal of the final boss and his tedious rhetoric...

...right up until "Nanomachines, son!" At which point I realized that it was totally self-aware. Probably. Either way, that made it more palatable.

That was by far the most hilarious thing in that fight.

#10 Posted by GunnerJensen (31 posts) -

I'm a big fan of Bayonetta and Vanquish, but I ended up hating this game, which is unfortunate. Between the clunky parry system, useless dodge move, awful camera system, the stun mechanic (why is this a thing?), and embarrassing dialog, this game just felt like a huge step down from Platinum's previous work. Their previous games had near-perfect mechanics, but MGR is just sloppy. I'm pretty sure my cholesterol went up a few notches after that final boss fight.

#11 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (3091 posts) -

@gunnerjensen: The dodge move ended up, for me, being far-and-away the single best purchase I made next to the Mariachi outfit. The brief period of invincibility and the directional movement, not to mention the ability to cancel out of your moves and use Dodge Offset like Bayonetta, was invaluable, especially against the final boss. I managed to take him down almost without getting hit solely because I was baiting his attacks and dodging through them with the correct timing- parrying always seemed to leave me in a much worse spot, comparatively.

#12 Posted by Demoskinos (14826 posts) -

I was just on the brink of absolute maddening insanity a second ago. So I've been strolling through the game just mopping up collectibles right? Well, I get to this part where a dude is supposed to have a left arm. So I check him with the AR mode and no arm appears. Then I quit out and check my collection and sure enough #35 is the one I need and every guide in the internet is telling me that its THIS GUY. No dice. Restarted a dozen times was debating the dark dark path of a complete restart of my file. Then I tried one more thing.

I went to the next guy in the subesquent battle who was also suppose to have an arm. And he did and that was supposed to be #36 so I collected it and checked to see if it gave me credit and.... somehow the guy who was supposed to unlock 36 just unlocked 35 and I noticed I already had credit for 37 the final Left hand in that area. And again the guy who was supposed to be left hand #37 turned out giving me credit for #36. So all's well that ends well I suppose. Still have no idea why what happened happened but as long as I get credit for my unlock weapon and trophy I'm not going to complain.

#13 Posted by crithon (3226 posts) -

you know, I'm often reminded how most of these types of games have some silly back tracking like God of War you'll end up at a door and guard saying "You need to collect 3 of these things." I'm happy there isn't much of that, in fact I do think the game just feels tight and streamline hitting those key moments that it wants to hit.

And there's still these remaining elements from the original Koji-Pro game design. Like the white artificial blood tanks are show because the game is trying to mask a loading sequence.

#14 Edited by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

@gunnerjensen said:

I'm a big fan of Bayonetta and Vanquish, but I ended up hating this game, which is unfortunate. Between the clunky parry system, useless dodge move, awful camera system, the stun mechanic (why is this a thing?), and embarrassing dialog, this game just felt like a huge step down from Platinum's previous work. Their previous games had near-perfect mechanics, but MGR is just sloppy. I'm pretty sure my cholesterol went up a few notches after that final boss fight.

!

The dodge is absolutely incredible.

It can cancel a parry, it can cancel virtually any regular attack, the forward dodge can be BM cancelled, there is dodge offset (meaning you can dodge in the middle of a combo, and finish that specific combos animation) and there are also doge/parry option selects. Seriously, it's one of the best tools in the game, and I can see why you're not too hung up on MGR if you weren't totally abusing that thing in every situation.

The combat mechanics in place are great; they basically give you all the tools to deal constant pressure.

The janky-as-hell blade mode is a real pisser, though....

I'll agree with you on both the stun mechanic and camera issue (though, given the mantra 'defense through offense' I can see why they punish you so heavily for getting hit); the camera, specifically, is mind-bogglingly bad.

#15 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

Still better than DMC.

#16 Edited by GunnerJensen (31 posts) -

@geteveryone said:

@gunnerjensen said:

I'm a big fan of Bayonetta and Vanquish, but I ended up hating this game, which is unfortunate. Between the clunky parry system, useless dodge move, awful camera system, the stun mechanic (why is this a thing?), and embarrassing dialog, this game just felt like a huge step down from Platinum's previous work. Their previous games had near-perfect mechanics, but MGR is just sloppy. I'm pretty sure my cholesterol went up a few notches after that final boss fight.

!

The dodge is absolutely incredible.

It can cancel a parry, it can cancel virtually any regular attack, the forward dodge can be BM cancelled, there is dodge offset (meaning you can dodge in the middle of a combo, and finish that specific combos animation) and there are also doge/parry option selects. Seriously, it's one of the best tools in the game, and I can see why you're not too hung up on MGR if you weren't totally abusing that thing in every situation.

The combat mechanics in place are great; they basically give you all the tools to deal constant pressure.

The janky-as-hell blade mode is a real pisser, though....

I'll agree with you on both the stun mechanic and camera issue (though, given the mantra 'defense through offense' I can see why they punish you so heavily for getting hit); the camera, specifically, is mind-bogglingly bad.

Perhaps it was just a problem on my end, as 50% of the time I tried to dodge, it would register as a light attack, which led to Raiden getting hit, which led to Raiden getting stunned, which led to the camera spinning out of control, which led to another cheap death, which led to me just sending the game back to Gamefly. I wonder why Platinum didn't just tie the parry and dodge moves to separate buttons.

Still better than DMC.

Nah.

#17 Posted by Dallas_Raines (2161 posts) -

The bland, grey-brown visuals were a real turn off coming straight from DmC, but I ended up thoroughly enjoying it. Anyway, I kinda hope the finale pisses off the hardcore fanboys who have been dismissing this game since Platinum came on board.

#18 Edited by Sanious (793 posts) -

@gunnerjensen said:

@ahaisthisourchance said:

Still better than DMC.

Nah.

I would say so, especially in the combat department. I like DmC and even though the environments aren't the greatest in MGR, I couldn't stand half the time I am fighting enemies in DmC where half of them would be falling off edges when I am trying to do rankings. Way too artificially difficult.

And the Bosses in MGR aren't completely push overs.

#19 Posted by GunstarRed (5180 posts) -

I have thought a bunch about how I feel about both DMC and MGR and it almost feels wrong that I am far more compelled to go and finish DMC on the harder difficulties than I am MGR... and being as big a Metal Gear fan as I am I feel a little disappointed in myself.

Rising has some real stand out moments and incredibly exciting boss encounters, but it doesn't stop the game from feeling like there's something missing. The camera can be a complete nightmare at times, the game is mostly kinda ugly outside of character models and Platinum's insistence on having so many of the heavier enemies attacks stun requiring you to wiggle the stick does nothing but halt the momentum of the combat. DMC gets the flow spot on.

I Really, really like both games but the visual flair and good design decisions really make DMC feel like a better game.

#20 Posted by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

I Really, really like both games but the visual flair and good design decisions really make DMC feel like a better game.

Don't say that too loudly.

(Peeps be crazy, yo!)

I adore MGR, but the package DmC presents is a lot more appealing. The drab colour pallete, lacklustre environments and flat enemy design bring Revengeance down.

Where it really shines is the combat, the benefit of the Metal Gear universe (and related easter eggs, codecs, etc), VRs being better than the DmC challenge rooms and the exquisite modelling of Raiden (seriously, he's probably one of the best character models ever - he looks like the kind of action figure I wanted when I was a kid, but never existed).

The last couple of chapters are over very quickly and the pace does get a bit out of hand, but I'm loving it for the most part.

Really hoping any potential sequel is given the time to bake-fully next time around.

(Similarly, if DmC does get a sequel, I really hope NT take on board some of the criticisms regarding the combat/story).

#21 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -

Any MGS fans claming that the themes of this game are off clearly arn't fans. MGS was ruined with AC!D, Kojima sold out to bright colours and flashy lights.

#22 Edited by GunstarRed (5180 posts) -

@geteveryone: I said it and will totally stand by it!

Youre right, Raiden looks gorgeous both in motion and just staring at him as an action figure. I sat panning round him for a good five or so minutes.

I haven't tried out any of the VR missions yet, I have been too busy looking for collectibles and upgrading weapons, but I actually quite liked a lot of the extra missions in DMC especially the ones that required you to think a little more creatively like only use one move and kill all enemies using other enemies attacks.

The problem with MGR is that I'm always going to compare it to Bayonetta... and Bayonetta is perfect. (I hope this isn't too crazy a statement)

#23 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

I think it's not bad on it's own merits. Compared to Bayonetta and Vanquish though it's garbage. I wonder what team at platinum made this game? They are clearly much less talented then those two other teams.

#24 Edited by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

@immortalsaiyan said:

I think it's not bad on it's own merits. Compared to Bayonetta and Vanquish though it's garbage. I wonder what team at platinum made this game? They are clearly much less talented then those two other teams.

In what sense?

Check out my tech thread: the mechanics at work in the combat system are great, but very subtle.

There's nothing crazy in this video, but it gives you a decent idea of what people are missing out on by not really bothering to dig deeper into the mechanics:

#25 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

@immortalsaiyan said:

I think it's not bad on it's own merits. Compared to Bayonetta and Vanquish though it's garbage. I wonder what team at platinum made this game? They are clearly much less talented then those two other teams.

In what sense?

Check out my tech thread: the mechanics at work in the combat system are great, but very subtle.

There's nothing crazy in this video, but it gives you a decent idea of what people are missing out on by not really bothering to dig deeper into the mechanics:

I feel like the game's only depth and strategy comes from the dodge and parry mechanics and that too much importance is given to them. Making a less dynamic and more shallow and far less satisfying combat system than Ninja Gaiden, which I feel it is trying to be more like than say Bayonetta. There are a bunch of moves in the move set but I feel knowing them is not important and that mashing back and forth between X and Y gets the trick done. That is because thinking about what string you want is not necessary because you can cancel out of or parry out of just about any attack with ease. So as long as those are on point, you are fine. The parry window being really lenient too. So good timing is not even required there. I feel this encourages no need to learn the move set as most of the moves funion the same. mash X for when there is one enemy and Y for multiple around you. It has worked well for me.

In general the combat feel sloppy compared to Ninja Gaiden, which is a control, flow and camera thing. Personal preference I think, So i can't explain that further. I also feel like I lack the tools to deal with large groups of enemies. Like two gorillas and a couple of soldiers, I find it hard to keep control of the fight. That may be to the controlled reckless way I fight, but I think I am playing it right, as you say, it's about offense as defense. In Ninja Gaiden I have the tools to deal with any variety of enemies. Here I don't feel that way, but that could be a combination of me needing to improve and the aforementioned sloppiness to the combat. What exactly dictates when a enemies is stunned or turn blue to be cut with zandatsu? Knowing that may help me in group combat and not feel sloppy.

I would love to hear a rebuttal to this. For all I know I could be missing something huge.

#26 Posted by bearshamanbro (284 posts) -

This game is incredible. IMO, this is Platinum's 2nd best game and I'd rank them Bayonetta>MGR>Vanquish. More development time and it could have been their best.

Once you bump the difficulty up a little and dig into the systems it's great. Takes a while to get the proper feel for the game though. You have to learn to play really aggressive and always be on the attack. At first I thought this felt like Ninja Gaiden and a more defensive game, but it's really not like that at all. The only negative to me is the camera. It definitely has problems, but nothing that can't be worked around. You just have to actively manage it and use the lock-on at the right times to keep enemies on screen.

#27 Posted by Sanious (793 posts) -

I feel like the game's only depth and strategy comes from the dodge and parry mechanics and that too much importance is given to them. Making a less dynamic and more shallow and far less satisfying combat system than Ninja Gaiden, which I feel it is trying to be more like than say Bayonetta. There are a bunch of moves in the move set but I feel knowing them is not important and that mashing back and forth between X and Y gets the trick done. That is because thinking about what string you want is not necessary because you can cancel out of or parry out of just about any attack with ease. So as long as those are on point, you are fine. The parry window being really lenient too. So good timing is not even required there. I feel this encourages no need to learn the move set as most of the moves funion the same. mash X for when there is one enemy and Y for multiple around you. It has worked well for me.

In general the combat feel sloppy compared to Ninja Gaiden, which is a control, flow and camera thing. Personal preference I think, So i can't explain that further. I also feel like I lack the tools to deal with large groups of enemies. Like two gorillas and a couple of soldiers, I find it hard to keep control of the fight. That may be to the controlled reckless way I fight, but I think I am playing it right, as you say, it's about offense as defense. In Ninja Gaiden I have the tools to deal with any variety of enemies. Here I don't feel that way, but that could be a combination of me needing to improve and the aforementioned sloppiness to the combat. What exactly dictates when a enemies is stunned or turn blue to be cut with zandatsu? Knowing that may help me in group combat and not feel sloppy.

I would love to hear a rebuttal to this. For all I know I could be missing something huge.

Just because you can mash through a game does not mean the game has a lack of depth and just because you choose to do that instead of figuring things out on your own does not mean that. Honestly from the sounds of it, it doesn't sound like you feel like figuring out the possible depth this game has rather then it not actually having it.

#28 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -
@sanious said:

@immortalsaiyan said:

I feel like the game's only depth and strategy comes from the dodge and parry mechanics and that too much importance is given to them. Making a less dynamic and more shallow and far less satisfying combat system than Ninja Gaiden, which I feel it is trying to be more like than say Bayonetta. There are a bunch of moves in the move set but I feel knowing them is not important and that mashing back and forth between X and Y gets the trick done. That is because thinking about what string you want is not necessary because you can cancel out of or parry out of just about any attack with ease. So as long as those are on point, you are fine. The parry window being really lenient too. So good timing is not even required there. I feel this encourages no need to learn the move set as most of the moves funion the same. mash X for when there is one enemy and Y for multiple around you. It has worked well for me.

In general the combat feel sloppy compared to Ninja Gaiden, which is a control, flow and camera thing. Personal preference I think, So i can't explain that further. I also feel like I lack the tools to deal with large groups of enemies. Like two gorillas and a couple of soldiers, I find it hard to keep control of the fight. That may be to the controlled reckless way I fight, but I think I am playing it right, as you say, it's about offense as defense. In Ninja Gaiden I have the tools to deal with any variety of enemies. Here I don't feel that way, but that could be a combination of me needing to improve and the aforementioned sloppiness to the combat. What exactly dictates when a enemies is stunned or turn blue to be cut with zandatsu? Knowing that may help me in group combat and not feel sloppy.

I would love to hear a rebuttal to this. For all I know I could be missing something huge.

Just because you can mash through a game does not mean the game has a lack of depth and just because you choose to do that instead of figuring things out on your own does not mean that. Honestly from the sounds of it, it doesn't sound like you feel like figuring out the possible depth this game has rather then it not actually having it.

I get where you are coming from but I tried looking for it and continue to do so. With some success. I am improving at the dodge mechanics and proper zaibatsu useage. The movelist thing stuck out to me. This game is the only game where I played that way. I am the type to always buy new moves over more damage or health as I like to mix it up and have more abilities to work with. Thing is here I felt most moves serves a similar service so I could not play that way. Bummed me out. In DmC for instance each move has a clear purpose distinct from all others.

Me saying the game is garbage compared to Bayonetta and Vanquish is harsh even though I think the those games are better, MGR is good. Just felt the need to clarify that.

#29 Edited by rolanthas (242 posts) -

It is a rushed game for sure, and definitely shows that in spades. Too many mistakes that Platinum never did with their previous titles.

Still, Platinum delivered as always. Kenji Saito seems like a very capable director. The schedule + collab effort with Koji Pro made this production a labor I imagine. Nicely done.

This is turning out to be quite an awesome year for me. 3 for 3 if God of War delivers as well.