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Posted by Irvandus (2879 posts) 5 months, 20 days ago

Poll: Has Ground Zeroes put you off Metal Gear Solid 5 (195 votes)

Yes, I no longer had any interest 16%
No, it made me excited for more 83%
#1 Edited by Irvandus (2879 posts) -

Messed up creating this a bit.

I think it's an interesting question to ask because for me Ground Zeroes felt like a proof of concept type thing. While it really put me off the story, I did not respond well to the obvious things, I enjoyed the gameplay a lot. I've always been a Metal Gear fan and this seems to be going in a great direction. In my opinion the best parts of MGS4 were the really open sections in act 2 and this seems to expand on that kind of design. I'm now really looking forward to playing The Phantom Pain but not sure if I want to see any more grossness. It's the only time I ever wished a game had a disable certain content option like Modern Warfare 2.

#2 Posted by Strife777 (1580 posts) -

Fuck no. I'm absolutely excited for The Phantom Pain.

I think Ground Zeroes is totally fine, in almost every aspect. I don't really feel like arguing about it though.

The game still has plenty of time left to improve upon the criticism laid on Ground Zeroes, except maybe the story or writing, which could be difficult to change at this point, but who knows.

#3 Edited by Dallas_Raines (2161 posts) -

Yeah, it wasn't even the idiotic "Vagina Bomb Monologues" that turned me off, I just found it to be pretty boring overall compared to past games. I'm sure the almost complete lack of narrative beyond the vagina bombs probably played a big part in the boredom, though.

#4 Edited by Yummylee (21643 posts) -

I haven't played Ground Zeroes yet; will probably get it when Phantom Pain nears release if anything. Though regardless of my hypothetical thoughts of Ground Zeroes, MGS is one of those series that I'm too invested in to not be there for the next big release.

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#5 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (1097 posts) -

I'm so tired of this whole "Vagina Bomb" thing, they never specify where the bomb goes!!! It could have been a Butt Bomb.

Seriously though, I'm excited for Phantom Pain.

#6 Posted by Stealthmaster86 (655 posts) -

I'm so tired of this whole "Vagina Bomb" thing, they never specify where the bomb goes!!! It could have been a Butt Bomb.

Seriously though, I'm excited for Phantom Pain.

For all we know, they cut up her leg a little bit and hid it in there.

I'm more excited about The Phantom Pain than I ever thought possible.

#7 Posted by Octaslash (528 posts) -

@stealthmaster86: Nope, those were definitely vagina squishing noises, not ass squishing noises.

Other than the weird child rape stuff, I actually like the direction the story is going. Big Boss and his private military are by far the most interesting things in the Metal Gear universe for me.

Anyway, I'm way more excited than I was before. The gameplay feels like a mix of Splinter Cell and Far Cry. I've played though all the missions multiple times and I'm psyched for more.

#8 Edited by csl316 (8674 posts) -

I'm in between. I like the tone, the gameplay seems improved, and it looks nice. But if every wide-open base is going to be a combination of "rescue a hostage, kill a dude, collect a thing, get out" bookended by cutscenes I'll get bored before seeing the end. I never finished Peace Walker because a lot of the missions seemed dull.

Metal Gear is interesting to me because of the gameplay/narrative mix while on a mission. Previous mainline games had an important goal up front, and they were full of story bits and meticulously designed levels while you worked toward accomplishing it. I'm worried this'll lean more on random things happening in an open area, with levels revolving around objectives that are inconsequential to the overall narrative. Just a bunch of playgrounds.

Ground Zeroes is obviously a gameplay focused thing, but I really worry that an open-world won't allow MGS V to have a good narrative flow. The series was built on giving you tactical options along a linear path, letting Kojima tell his crazy stories his way. If you can go anywhere, I worry you'll see a lot of "extract some bullshit" missions before unlocking the next big step in the story arc.

With that being said, I'm REALLY excited to see where the story goes. Big Boss has been a super interesting character. When they first went into the 60's I was rather disappointed, but a lot of this stuff has been gripping. Far more character-based stories than the Solid Snake adventures.

#9 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@octaslash: PAZ is not a child. She was like 21 in peace walker. She just said she was 16 to look more innocent.

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#10 Edited by pause422 (6187 posts) -

How about neither of those options? I feel GZ was a complete waste and apiece of shit, but I still want to play the real game when it comes out for sure.

#11 Posted by mpgeist (608 posts) -

I thought Ground Zeroes was fun, ended up spending about 10 hours in it and I want to go back and try for some S Ranks later. I'm more excited for Phantom Pain because of it, because after MGS4, frankly, I was ready to abandon the series and never look back.

#12 Edited by Nodima (1203 posts) -

Considering I was ready to never care about MGS again after MGS4. I honestly don't even remember how that game played, as I've said here and elsewhere many times MGS for me was always a series that was best digested in a single setting, and so until my first time playing Ground Zeroes I had never started a MGS without finishing it in the same sitting other than my very first time through Metal Gear Solid, mostly due to it existing only at my friend's house when I first heard of it.

MGS4 was this huge rush of adrenaline that slowly petered out in a billowing cloud of unnecessary and at times mentally offensive fan service that did everything possible to distract from how ramshackle the story telling was. From somewhere near the end of Act II/beginning of Act III on through the end of the game I couldn't shake this feeling that Kojima wanted to be done with the series so badly; for lack of a better comparison off hand it was a bit like his Quantum Solace. Hot off a fresh, radically acclaimed reboot (in the case of MGS 3 not so much in story so much as what the focal point of the narrative would be) here was this thing that just felt like a bunch of ideas on a wall because the wall needed ideas on it.

I think I had fun playing it but I've never recommended anyone else that didn't find themselves enthralled by the series' beginnings at a certain age (12-18) to try it. So while I was super impressed with the graphics from the initial reveal, the heavy reliance on characters I had never heard of or read about until just a few months ago had already sort of put me off.

But the idea that all of the cutscenes would be these long, single takes and the gameplay would by necessity remind me of all those hours lost to the MGS 2 demo I realized I had to try Ground Zeroes, and after taking four hours to complete a ten minute main campaign on Normal I knew this was a great purchase. Not only does it sound incredible on good headphones, it's a great showpiece for the PS4 and what this Fox Engine is capable of. Cover and crawling are still a little clunky but overall this is still a really fun game to stealth in - and unlike most a fun game to get caught in as well.

I'm not enthusiastic about some of the changes they've made mechanically - I miss the L2 and R2 scroll menus to be honest - and there's no evidence in the storytelling to suggest Keifer Sutherland will be believable as Boss or Kojima will be telling a story that makes any kind of sense. Part of what draws me to the idea of his prequels are their need to fit within a pre-existing world, and therefore supposed inability to go as off the rails as IV did (similarly I've always felt MGS 2 was fun to play, but it wasn't until a few years ago I came around on the mad genius of it's story constraints). But I can see how V so easily could, and much faster. Ground Zeroes had interesting but mostly awkward camera work and dialogue that was impossible to discern whether it was awkward due to budget/time constraints or just a straight up weak script. It was some combination of the two, but after having a loooooot of fun with the various scenarios (other than the helicopter one) and still wanting to improve my mediocre scores, I'd say Kojima has me curious. He might just stumble onto a super fun game while he continues to mutate the franchise as awkwardly as possible.

#13 Edited by NTM (7379 posts) -

@darji: She said she was 15, when she was ten years older.

#14 Posted by baka_shinji17 (227 posts) -

I am pumped for Phantom Pain! In fact I just started replaying MGS and plan on working my way through all the other games. Though I have only ever completed MGS4, MGS and MGS2 especially, were a huge part of my early gaming years. I know the series has its share of flaws but I still think Metal Gear is outstanding.

#15 Posted by avenged22 (10 posts) -

I loved the underground Volgin part! Totally outta left field!

#16 Posted by NTM (7379 posts) -

Nope, I'm really really excited for Phantom Pain; can't wait.

#17 Edited by Quarters (1703 posts) -

Considering I thought it was a fantastic start, I'm even more excited about TPP than I was before.

#18 Edited by BIGJEFFREY (5050 posts) -

Im ready for more Torture of women. So nope im excited.

#19 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4809 posts) -

Maybe I'm just a cishet scumbag, but what exactly is so offensive about the unfortunately titled "vagina bomb"? Do people think Kojima pulled that out of thin air? Out of his ass? Are they unaware that such things do exist?

I mean, yeah, it's absurd. Of course it's absurd. Almost everything that happens in real life is absurd (note I am not saying MGS is realistic), why is it this particular instance of absurdity the breaking point for some people?

OT: I am very much looking forward to The Phantom Pain. Ground Zeroes was fun and I really enjoyed the gameplay. Feels like a much more fleshed out Peace Walker.

#20 Edited by crithon (3239 posts) -

hmmmm, no, I find it no different then the more violent and vicious anime and grind house I've seen before. I'm excited for MGS5 but the wait is PAINFUL since they are so vague on what quarter next year.

#21 Posted by Shirogane (3574 posts) -

@crithon said:

hmmmm, no, I find it no different then the more violent and vicious anime and grind house I've seen before. I'm excited for MGS5 but the wait is PAINFUL since they are so vague on what quarter next year.

Uh huh, the release is like a phantom. Still no idea when it's coming, and it'll probably get delayed even more, like almost every other game ever.

#22 Posted by crithon (3239 posts) -

@shirogane: just brace yourself for maybe 2 years. That's just expecting the worst, in order to be surprised it's in a year. But it's been 4 years since Peace Walker and 6 years since MGS4.

#23 Edited by Legion_ (1283 posts) -

I think it's off-putting to address torture, rape and forcing a kid to fuck his friend. I think it's even more off-putting to shove a bomb up a vagina. And I think all of this is made even more disgusting by the fact that this is included in a game series that is well known for over sexualized characters, and objectifying women. For shame.

#24 Posted by Jumbs (245 posts) -

Maybe I'm just a cishet scumbag, but what exactly is so offensive about the unfortunately titled "vagina bomb"? Do people think Kojima pulled that out of thin air? Out of his ass? Are they unaware that such things do exist?

I mean, yeah, it's absurd. Of course it's absurd. Almost everything that happens in real life is absurd (note I am not saying MGS is realistic), why is it this particular instance of absurdity the breaking point for some people?

OT: I am very much looking forward to The Phantom Pain. Ground Zeroes was fun and I really enjoyed the gameplay. Feels like a much more fleshed out Peace Walker.

you are a cishet scumbag

the fact the (scantily clad) female character exists is to have a bomb put in her lady parts

like, no other reason for her to exist

#25 Edited by SlashDance (1815 posts) -
@legion_ said:

I think it's off-putting to address torture, rape and forcing a kid to fuck his friend. I think it's even more off-putting to shove a bomb up a vagina. And I think all of this is made even more disgusting by the fact that this is included in a game series that is well known for over sexualized characters, and objectifying women. For shame.

The Boss says hello.

Granted, there's half-naked Eva in the same game... but also a thong-wearing russian general. Kojima is just a weirdo sometimes.

#26 Posted by Yummylee (21643 posts) -

@jumbs: I honestly can't even tell if you're being serious or not your comment is so comically reactionary, reductive and just plain angry.

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#27 Posted by Berserker976 (360 posts) -

Lifetime MGS fan, now considering not buying TPP. So yeah, I guess GZ did hurt my anticipation. Though to be fair I wasn't really excited for it in the first place, because unless some of the more outlandish theories are correct we pretty much know what's going to happen in TPP, which is something that hasn't been true for any other MGS game. Add to that Hayter no longer voicing Snake, the whole Quiet controversy, and the extremely off-putting content in GZ, I just don't know why I should be excited about the next installment.

#28 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4809 posts) -

@yummylee said:

@jumbs: I honestly can't even tell if you're being serious or not your comment is so comically reactionary, reductive and just plain angry.

Give 'em the benefit of the doubt; he's satirizing a certain subset of people.

#29 Edited by GunstarRed (5186 posts) -

It's hard not to be excited about the changes they have made to the gameplay. And Ground Zeroes looks mostly stunning, so I expect TPP to look equally good. The only thing that seems a little offputting is the weird tone. I'm not a fan of the deadly serious stuff, it is completely at odds with the cartoonish voice acting the series has always had.

#30 Posted by Encephalon (1262 posts) -

I don't know. I've long been the guy who has decried MGS's wild fluctuations between the silly and the serious. But it turns out when Kojima picks a horse and goes full-serious, I don't much like that either. Maybe if he went full-silly?

#31 Edited by Yummylee (21643 posts) -

@gunstarred said:

It's hard not to be excited about the changes they have made to the gameplay. And Ground Zeroes looks mostly stunning, so I expect TPP to look equally good. The only thing that seems a little offputting is the weird tone. I'm not a fan of the deadly serious stuff, it is completely at odds with the cartoonish voice acting the series has always had.

Oh, I listened to 'the tape' btw... Cartoonish is indeed the perfect term for describing Skullface's voice performance. He almost veers on sounding like he's starring in some depraved radio porno.

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#32 Posted by Yummylee (21643 posts) -

I don't know. I've long been the guy who has decried MGS's wild fluctuations between the silly and the serious. But it turns out when Kojima picks a horse and goes full-serious, I don't much like that either. Maybe if he went full-silly?

That's basically what Revengeance was, I think. I wouldn't mind seeing more of that (especially because Rising was goddamned great), though maybe's that's part of why Revengeance exists -- so he can now parse the serious and the silly to different Metal Gear series.

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#33 Edited by falserelic (5437 posts) -

From my experience from playing it. It was a nice showcase of what to expect from Phantom of Pain. Ground Zeroes didn't put me off from wanting to play MGSV: Phantom of Pain, but at the sametime I don't want other devs to follow what kojima did. 30 dollars for a game that doesn't even last 2 hours is unacceptable to me. I know other people want to justify it saying it has additional content, but its nothing special.

Then if someone that wasn't really a fan of mgs bought ground zeroes. I'm pretty sure they're going to feel ripped-off in someway. Hell with 30 bucks you can buy other games that will give you more for your money. As for Phantom of Pain I hope kojima doesn't do some DLC shit that should have been part of the game to begin with.

#34 Posted by MindBullet (163 posts) -

I wouldn't say I'm 'more excited', but I probably will still get Phantom Pain. MGS is one of those series where I end up getting nearly every release even though I'm pretty sure I stopped actually enjoying them a long time ago. I know there's all this controversy going on around it now, and I get why people are upset about it, but its not going to affect my decisions.

#35 Posted by Vextroid (1404 posts) -

Nope, infact it cleared up some doubts about the game-play. Super excited now.

#36 Edited by DannyHibiki (157 posts) -

Kinda?

I thought I would like the integration of game mechanics from Far Cry, but even that doesn't feel totally perfect; just more like a mishmash with the Metal Gear systems.

Real pissed they had a "Snatcher" mission too, but the enemies don't shoot laser beams from their mouth and green magic evaporating when they die!? Should be chunks of bloody gore and metal skeletons. COME ON

The Paz and Chico story isn't the only thing that's exploitative.

#37 Edited by Daneian (1229 posts) -

I think Ground Zeroes had incredible potential that wasn't communicated very well. Camp Omega was a complex place full of options, but you really need to go out of your way to discover what those are and the payoff doesn't come close to compensating for the amount of effort required. You could incapacitate every guard near a high danger evac point, destroy the anti-air defenses and call your chopper or just run the short distance to the cliffs and call it safely there. The result is the same. You have to really want to exploit the depth.

Same goes for the narrative, where the plot has incredibly weak inertia and doesn't do a good enough job connecting what happens at the beginning to what happens at the end and how either relate to rescuing Paz and Chico. You have to listen to the mission briefing (and the Peace Walker recaps if you dont know that sory) and then piece together all Chico's tapes before you even have context. It comes together at the end but you really really have to work for it.

#38 Posted by Karkarov (3102 posts) -

Hell no, loved it. Is the story harsh and gritty and maybe a bit hard to take. Yes. I also have to ask if people offended or surprised watched any of the trailers? The red band trailer for this game is like a year old and it makes it VERY clear how brutal this game is going to be. I mean it shows two American soldiers water torture a guy, beat him, and then shoot him dead for apparently absolutely no reason. What offends you guys though? The fact that Paz may have had a bomb shoved inside her vagina.

Personally I am very excited for MGSV and this game did nothing but enhance that because it looks and plays better than I expected. The AI even acts like it isn't completely stupid this time and bunker down at choke points, search in a way that is intelligent, spot you quickly and react not just go "huh????", blah blah blah. Hell there was even one moment where I tried to free a prisoner, got spotted, had to drop him and make a run for it. Why is this cool? Of the four guys who came at me when they realized I had freed someone one of them stopped, secured the prisoner, called it in, and waited for their commander to tell them what to do with the prisoner while the others came after me. Kind of how real soldiers would have behaved, go figure.

#39 Posted by SomeJerk (3251 posts) -

I'm more excited for it.

  1. I know the stealth and gunplay will be fine, despite my worries over the tagging and the reflex system both are needed (skip reflex if you're a god I guess). With no regular radar that's a must, and it's probably going to be mostly OSP in TPP so iDroid at best I think.
  2. I also know the background story better, it was nice to see how it "began", the reactions of the characters
  3. And then the knowledge that TPP will be "worse" than GZ when it comes to internet SJWs cry on the internet about fictional women being treated badly by bad people in rough nasty stories that make fictional people want to take revenge on evil empires of crazy evil people for the nasty shit they've done.

So GZ gameplay but with far more to it in larger wider areas = effin great! TPP will be awesome. Just hoping they get the Xbone version up to at least 900p by then, sheesh..

#40 Edited by liquiddragon (241 posts) -

Gameplay is where it needs to be but peace walker's story was terrible and based on GZ, PP seems to be headed in the same direction....and dude, that's not snake...

#41 Posted by Berserker976 (360 posts) -

@somejerk said:

I'm more excited for it.

  1. I know the stealth and gunplay will be fine, despite my worries over the tagging and the reflex system both are needed (skip reflex if you're a god I guess). With no regular radar that's a must, and it's probably going to be mostly OSP in TPP so iDroid at best I think.
  2. I also know the background story better, it was nice to see how it "began", the reactions of the characters
  3. And then the knowledge that TPP will be "worse" than GZ when it comes to internet SJWs cry on the internet about fictional women being treated badly by bad people in rough nasty stories that make fictional people want to take revenge on evil empires of crazy evil people for the nasty shit they've done.

So GZ gameplay but with far more to it in larger wider areas = effin great! TPP will be awesome. Just hoping they get the Xbone version up to at least 900p by then, sheesh..

You do realize how ironic it is to use that term pejoratively on this website, right?

#42 Edited by bybeach (4829 posts) -

@encephalon said:

I don't know. I've long been the guy who has decried MGS's wild fluctuations between the silly and the serious. But it turns out when Kojima picks a horse and goes full-serious, I don't much like that either. Maybe if he went full-silly?

"What if a 6, turned out to be 9?"

I've just gotten to my first tape, and I am literally going 'wat?'. To point, what if Kojima's total serious turned out total silly? I'm starting to get a little nervous , Although yes, mankind, or borrowing a term, a sub-set of them, have developed probably a vagina bomb. A Butt bomb to be sure, I read of one used a few years ago.

But I am going to continue to question Kojima's sense of story balance as I play. Hopefully it doesn't decay further, though there is that Quiet character in the back of my mind.

#43 Posted by Pr1mus (3910 posts) -
@yummylee said:

Though regardless of my hypothetical thoughts of Ground Zeroes, MGS is one of those series that I'm too invested in to not be there for the next big release.

Not that long ago i would have said the same thing but in the last couple years all the series i thought i was too invested in to not be there i ended up not being there after all. Like as much as i liked RE from the first one until 4 and even liked 5 enough i haven't bought 6 or Operation Racoon City because i'm not a crazy person! (sorry). Same with Final Fantasy but i suppose this one is more a case of just not liking the direction the series is taking since 13 but still.

When it comes to MGS, well it's been 10 years since the last one i actually enjoyed. MGS4 didn't do anything for me, Peace Walker either and so far i'm just not seeing anything that interest me from GZ or Phantom Pain. I guess one outstanding game with Big Boss is all i wanted and what they did with Solid Snake in 4 wasn't my cup of tea. In any case just a title i like on the box isn't enough anymore. 10 years ago anything that said FF, MGS, RE (and a couple others) on the box was an instant buy but not anymore.

Peace Walker really turned me off big time though. I just don't find Big Boss' story after the event of MGS3 that interesting.

#44 Posted by Yummylee (21643 posts) -

@pr1mus: Funnily enough I share the same sentiments regarding Peace Walker & MGS4. Peace Walker in particular I straight-up think is a bad game. But Kojima has once again whisked his magic into motion and, in short, ''Just when I thought I was out...''

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#45 Posted by Maajin (1063 posts) -
@jumbs said:

@oldirtybearon said:

Maybe I'm just a cishet scumbag, but what exactly is so offensive about the unfortunately titled "vagina bomb"? Do people think Kojima pulled that out of thin air? Out of his ass? Are they unaware that such things do exist?

I mean, yeah, it's absurd. Of course it's absurd. Almost everything that happens in real life is absurd (note I am not saying MGS is realistic), why is it this particular instance of absurdity the breaking point for some people?

OT: I am very much looking forward to The Phantom Pain. Ground Zeroes was fun and I really enjoyed the gameplay. Feels like a much more fleshed out Peace Walker.

you are a cishet scumbag

the fact the (scantily clad) female character exists is to have a bomb put in her lady parts

like, no other reason for her to exist

I agree that in Ground Zeroes that is the sole purpose of Paz. In the context of the whole series, however, she is a strong character that made some pretty messed up stuff, had an arc, and it's now paying for it. I'm not saying she is a fantastic character, just that she is one and not just a vagina for a bomb to be inserted in.

Kojima's female characters are just as bad and cliché as his male ones. Not that that excuses him, I'll understend and respect completely whoever finds them offensive, but I myself I'm fine with that. I guess I don't need great, realistic, inclusive characters in everything I consume.

I love Metal Gear, in part, for it's stupidity.

#46 Posted by Demoskinos (14834 posts) -

I think people who complain about the story in ground zeros at just showing how little they knew about the product they were buying. This was never meant to be anything but what it is a setup for the main arc of the story and an excuse to showcase the gameplay and systems.

#47 Posted by DonChipotle (2760 posts) -

I am excited for Phantom Pain for the gameplay, since Ground Zeroes proved to be the most fun I've had with MGS gameplay. A full game of that? Absolutely. It's the story I am not sold on.

#48 Edited by Dallas_Raines (2161 posts) -

@demoskinos: I didn't buy anything, I spent zero dollars at red box and returned it three hours later.

#49 Posted by MooseyMcMan (11020 posts) -

I'm more excited for the game part, but slightly...not worried, but less excited for the story. Not because of all that stuff that everyone is talking about, I'm just slightly worried that having Kiefer is going to result in not a ton of dialog from him. At least that was the case in Ground Zeroes, but I hope he's chattier in Phantom Pain.

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#50 Posted by Demoskinos (14834 posts) -

@falserelic: More for your money is entirely subjective. You can get as much gameplay out of this as you want to.