#1 Posted by ReverendHunt (344 posts) -

It seems a bit early to be assuming he's not Bi-Han or Kuai Liang. I know Ed teased the "Sub-Zero factory" concept of the Lin Kuei, but we really don't know who this is yet.

#2 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7096 posts) -

What if it's Freddy Krueger?

#3 Posted by fleabeard (179 posts) -

What if it's Freddy Krueger?

What if Scorpion is Jason Voorhees?

#4 Posted by crithon (3186 posts) -

cyborg sub zero.... again

#5 Posted by StarvingGamer (8227 posts) -

Given that the gimmick of MKX is 3 different versions of each character, there may actually be 3 different sub-zeroes in this game.

Also does no one else think that Cassie Cage animates like a Robot Chicken character?

#6 Edited by CorruptedEvil (3185 posts) -

@starvinggamer: Everything about her is very alpha, her textures are really plain, her model is less detailed than the others and her animations are stiff.

#7 Posted by MarkWahlberg (4604 posts) -

It's just some guy named Kelvin.

... I'll let myself out.

#8 Posted by EXTomar (4722 posts) -

Who is "sub-zero"? Are we talking about 0C vs 0F?

#9 Edited by FLStyle (4693 posts) -

@reverendhunt said:

It seems a bit early to be assuming he's not Bi-Han or Kuai Liang. I know Ed teased the "Sub-Zero factory" concept of the Lin Kuei, but we really don't know who this is yet.

Bear with me here, but I have a theory that it's the Elder Sub-Zero AKA Noob Saibot AKA Bi-Han, brought back to live.

Unlike any MKX E3 content I've seen and heard since, the E3 trailer during the Sony press conference had audio on the characters sounding off on each other before the fight and Sub-Zero says "I'm getting tired of professing my innocence to you" (referring to why Scorpion killed him in MK9). To which Scorpion angrily responds with "Well allow me to relive you of your burden!" And then the fight starts.

I think that either the good guys or bad guys (obviously not Shinnok/Quan Chi/Brotherhood of Shadow/Team Netherrealm) succeeds in getting Noob brought back to live as Sub-Zero.

#10 Posted by TheAcidSkull (424 posts) -

@flstyle said:

@reverendhunt said:

It seems a bit early to be assuming he's not Bi-Han or Kuai Liang. I know Ed teased the "Sub-Zero factory" concept of the Lin Kuei, but we really don't know who this is yet.

Bear with me here, but I have a theory that it's the Elder Sub-Zero AKA Noob Saibot AKA Bi-Han, brought back to live.

Unlike any MKX E3 content I've seen and heard since, the E3 trailer during the Sony press conference had audio on the characters sounding off on each other before the fight and Sub-Zero says "I'm getting tired of professing my innocence to you" (referring to why Scorpion killed him in MK9). To which Scorpion angrily responds with "Well allow me to relive you of your burden!" And then the fight starts.

I think that either the good guys or bad guys (obviously not Shinnok/Quan Chi/Brotherhood of Shadow/Team Netherrealm) succeeds in getting Noob brought back to live as Sub-Zero.

That's possible, or maybe something happened within the spam of 25 years between a new sub zero and scorpion or a revived Kuai Liang. bear in mind that Cyber Sub Zero died in the game, so the younger sub zero could have been brought back as a human.

But that's a good theory you have there, Bi-Han, as far as I recall was never truly bad, he was just turned evil as Noob.

Online
#11 Posted by KaneRobot (1604 posts) -

Maybe it'll be Sub-Zero from The Running Man.

#12 Posted by CorruptedEvil (3185 posts) -

Does it really matter? Mortal Kombat is batshit insanity and whatever the reason for Sub Zero being alive is will be dumb as hell and I will love it.

#13 Edited by FLStyle (4693 posts) -

Does it really matter? Mortal Kombat is batshit insanity and whatever the reason for Sub Zero being alive is will be dumb as hell and I will love it.

You're seriously asking us if a storyline we've been following since MK1 really matters? If it didn't matter I very much doubt Ed Boon would still be adding to the story and have made the best 2 fighting game story modes up to now in MK9 and Injustice.

You remind me of Patrick and his dismissive attitude towards other video game storylines in games that he only plays for his and your so-called batshit insanity. I don't get either of you at all, it's like you're excited for only playing half a game or something.

#14 Edited by CorruptedEvil (3185 posts) -

@flstyle: I'm just saying that considering the way Mortal Kombat works it's highly unlikely that anyone will be able to guess it. I'm sure if you are actually into MK's story it will be good but I don't understand the need for pointless speclation.

#15 Posted by FLStyle (4693 posts) -

@flstyle: I'm just saying that considering the way Mortal Kombat works it's highly unlikely that anyone will be able to guess it.

Well if I'm completely wrong then I'll hold my hands up and say so, but we're going to keep guessing with the facts we have regardless.

#16 Posted by Hailinel (24709 posts) -

@flstyle: MK9 and Injustice had far from the best story modes. In one, there's no chapter select and thr final boss is bullshit. The other has an overreliance on a few select characters. Companies like Arc System Works innovated in the fighting game story mode long before MK9 showed up.

#17 Posted by Dixavd (1358 posts) -

Wait, how does this series work? How can people die? Is there some contextualisation of the fatalities? In the story, are they scripted? Is there some other level of killing that would stop a character coming back?

Mortal Kombat confuses me.

#18 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5255 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@flstyle: MK9 and Injustice had far from the best story modes. In one, there's no chapter select and thr final boss is bullshit. The other has an overreliance on a few select characters. Companies like Arc System Works innovated in the fighting game story mode long before MK9 showed up.

I can't stand behind that statement. ArcSys has a confusing and fairly obtuse system for its story modes. MK9 and Injustice makes sense at the very least 'cause you can tell where all the threads connect rather than something like BlazBlue that's a jumbled mess of webs. To be fair BlazBlue does seem like it's embracing the whole tangled web of madness thing it has going for it.

#19 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5255 posts) -

@dixavd said:

Wait, how does this series work? How can people die? Is there some contextualisation of the fatalities? In the story, are they scripted? Is there some other level of killing that would stop a character coming back?

Mortal Kombat confuses me.

Fatalities aren't in the story mode.

#20 Posted by FLStyle (4693 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@flstyle: MK9 and Injustice had far from the best story modes. In one, there's no chapter select and thr final boss is bullshit. The other has an overreliance on a few select characters. Companies like Arc System Works innovated in the fighting game story mode long before MK9 showed up.

I'm pretty sceptic how an anime fighting game could have that much influence on the genre to be considered innovative, but by all means please explain what they do that makes them good.

#21 Posted by KaneRobot (1604 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@flstyle: MK9 and Injustice had far from the best story modes. In one, there's no chapter select and thr final boss is bullshit. The other has an overreliance on a few select characters. Companies like Arc System Works innovated in the fighting game story mode long before MK9 showed up.

The most important element of a story mode is a chapter select. MK's superior story is irrelevant. Without a chapter select, MK just can't hold up.

The final boss being "bullshit" is a statement that's nice and vague. No idea if you mean from a story perspective or from "he is so cheap" perspective. If you think it's the former, I.m not sure what to tell you. I can't help you.

If it's the latter, you'll lose the first few/several times you fight him. Then you learn what to do. At least I'd hope.

#22 Posted by Hailinel (24709 posts) -

@flstyle said:

@hailinel said:

@flstyle: MK9 and Injustice had far from the best story modes. In one, there's no chapter select and thr final boss is bullshit. The other has an overreliance on a few select characters. Companies like Arc System Works innovated in the fighting game story mode long before MK9 showed up.

I'm pretty sceptic how an anime fighting game could have that much influence on the genre to be considered innovative, but by all means please explain what they do that makes them good.

The fact that you're already casting arrogant judgment on them by calling them out as "anime fighting games" makes me doubt that you'd take me seriously, anyway. But anyway...

The only thing that Mortal Kombat did of note was string multiple characters' stories together in a forced chronological order. Injustice does the same thing, but advances things only slightly by adding a chapter select for completed chapters, but then asks you to play multiple sections of the story as Batman. Oh, and Evil Superman is an easier final boss than Shao Kahn. I'll give it that.

Let's compare this to BlazBlue. First of all, each playable character in BlazBlue, aside from the final boss, is not only a part of the story, but a playable part of the story. Contrast this to both MK and Injustice, which leave a number of characters on the sidelines in terms of playability, regardless of their importance to the story. Not once in Injustice do you play as Harley, for example, despite taking control of Batman three times.

The BlazBlue story mode allows characters to be played in an order chosen by the player (up to a point, as the player must unlock the stories of some characters by playing as other characters first). Each character's story is given as much time and as much depth, if not more so, than the characters in MK and Injustice. Fancy cinematics between matches? No, the presentation is largely inspired by visual novels, up to and including the ability to make choices regarding certain dialogue options or actions. These lead to branching story paths for each character, though it's up to the player to unlock the canon story of each fighter, and ultimately unlock the path to the story's true ending. But those other paths, the ones that lead to other endings, are just as valuable, as they provide extra character interaction off the beaten path. Sort of like the sillier endings in the MK and Injustice Arcade Modes, integrated into the story. But the canon story and true ending are incentives; rewards for exploring all of the avenues available.

And while you hasten to chastise these games for being "anime," let's take a look at he games you're favoring for a second. Mortal Kombat is a massive reboot of the entire franchise's canon, which is commendable. But at its core, the story is pretty goofy, with interdimensional barbarian overlords, cybernetic ninja warriors, gods, actors, cops, evil sorcerers, and a martial arts tournament that's basically Enter the Dragon from Hell. That's far more "anime" than a lot of anime that I've seen. And as for Injustice, it's a cornball story that would be goofy even by comic book standards, with evil alternate universe dopplegangers, pills that instantly make mortal Earthlings capable of taking a super-beating, and the whole story takes place because Nega-Superman went crazy and became evil. Going to the Evil Superman well is not what I would call the most original concept when it comes to stories in the DC Universe.

#23 Posted by FLStyle (4693 posts) -

@hailinel: I didn't pick the name anime fighting game, that's what the section of the fighting game community that plays these games calls themselves. In any case don't be an anime hater, applying negative connotations to the word anime like it's still 2007 and anime is for jerks only became a thing yesterday. And these specific fighting games are niche to the overall genre. And niche aspects is very rarely innovative on the whole regardless of how good it is. This isn't judgement on my part, it's all facts set in place before I even knew what the FGC was.

As for what you've described I refer you to what @kanerobot said. Dialogue options? Unlocking the actual canon story? Playing as one character but not the other? That's all gameplay, you haven't even told me what this canon story is and how it's better than MK9 and Injustice.

Yeah MK9 and Injustice has interdimensional barbarian overlords and alternate universe dopplegangers. And it's all told on a big cinematic scale with cool cut-scenes and voice acting that puts Capcom games to shame. The fact that this thread exists speaks for the MK's backstory and universe. And Injustice pulls from DC history and actually makes it work. What does Arc System Works games bring to the table? I ask again for this so-called innovation you speak of.

#24 Posted by Hailinel (24709 posts) -

@flstyle said:

@hailinel: I didn't pick the name anime fighting game, that's what the section of the fighting game community that plays these games calls themselves. In any case don't be an anime hater, applying negative connotations to the word anime like it's still 2007 and anime is for jerks only became a thing yesterday. And these specific fighting games are niche to the overall genre. And niche aspects is very rarely innovative on the whole regardless of how good it is. This isn't judgement on my part, it's all facts set in place before I even knew what the FGC was.

As for what you've described I refer you to what @kanerobot said. Dialogue options? Unlocking the actual canon story? Playing as one character but not the other? That's all gameplay, you haven't even told me what this canon story is and how it's better than MK9 and Injustice.

Yeah MK9 and Injustice has interdimensional barbarian overlords and alternate universe dopplegangers. And it's all told on a big cinematic scale with cool cut-scenes and voice acting that puts Capcom games to shame. The fact that this thread exists speaks for the MK's backstory and universe. And Injustice pulls from DC history and actually makes it work. What does Arc System Works games bring to the table? I ask again for this so-called innovation you speak of.

I was speaking mechnically from the start. Telling a good story isn't revolutionary. Telling a story in a mechanically interesting fashion is what I'm getting at. Again, there is nothing special about what Mortal Kombat or Injustice do. They're fairly standard stories told in a linear fashion. That's not a novel thing.

#25 Posted by ReverendHunt (344 posts) -

Not only did this go woefully off-topic, it somehow got detached from the subject and onto the general MKX forum.

I has a sad.

#26 Posted by edsone (263 posts) -

@hailinel: actually there's something special. It was pretty much like a Mortal Kombat movie. A pretty fun one by the way even if it did not make any sense. Most stories are linear so I'll ignore this complaint of yours. Also, not being linear doesn't make it better nor is something new. Yes, it's goofy but that work in its favour. It's Mortal Kombat! Actually Blazblue's story is not "mechanically" interesting. Especially when you have to die ON PURPOSE several times! If anything it can be a pain in butt. I could argue that MK's presentation is also better instead of standard visual novel presentation that looks like a lazy high resolution 90s visual novel with voice acting. Not being able to play some characters can be a good thing. Either way it's irrelevant. It's a design choice and what's good or not depends on the game.

As you see, it's easy to criticise. I could also complain about loads of things in MK but I believe it gets deserved praise. I believe it was an unfortunate and unnecessary comparison.

I like both games by the way. Also enjoy the story modes. I just don't see that revolution or superiority in Blazblue. They're also so different in most respects that I find it hard to compare to be honest.