Do we have confirmation that he's a different Sub-Zero?

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reverendhunt

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It seems a bit early to be assuming he's not Bi-Han or Kuai Liang. I know Ed teased the "Sub-Zero factory" concept of the Lin Kuei, but we really don't know who this is yet.

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MariachiMacabre

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What if it's Freddy Krueger?

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fleabeard

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What if it's Freddy Krueger?

What if Scorpion is Jason Voorhees?

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crithon

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cyborg sub zero.... again

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StarvingGamer

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Given that the gimmick of MKX is 3 different versions of each character, there may actually be 3 different sub-zeroes in this game.

Also does no one else think that Cassie Cage animates like a Robot Chicken character?

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Corevi

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#6  Edited By Corevi

@starvinggamer: Everything about her is very alpha, her textures are really plain, her model is less detailed than the others and her animations are stiff.

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MarkWahlberg

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It's just some guy named Kelvin.

... I'll let myself out.

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EXTomar

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Who is "sub-zero"? Are we talking about 0C vs 0F?

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#9  Edited By FLStyle

@reverendhunt said:

It seems a bit early to be assuming he's not Bi-Han or Kuai Liang. I know Ed teased the "Sub-Zero factory" concept of the Lin Kuei, but we really don't know who this is yet.

Bear with me here, but I have a theory that it's the Elder Sub-Zero AKA Noob Saibot AKA Bi-Han, brought back to live.

Unlike any MKX E3 content I've seen and heard since, the E3 trailer during the Sony press conference had audio on the characters sounding off on each other before the fight and Sub-Zero says "I'm getting tired of professing my innocence to you" (referring to why Scorpion killed him in MK9). To which Scorpion angrily responds with "Well allow me to relive you of your burden!" And then the fight starts.

I think that either the good guys or bad guys (obviously not Shinnok/Quan Chi/Brotherhood of Shadow/Team Netherrealm) succeeds in getting Noob brought back to live as Sub-Zero.

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theacidskull

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@flstyle said:

@reverendhunt said:

It seems a bit early to be assuming he's not Bi-Han or Kuai Liang. I know Ed teased the "Sub-Zero factory" concept of the Lin Kuei, but we really don't know who this is yet.

Bear with me here, but I have a theory that it's the Elder Sub-Zero AKA Noob Saibot AKA Bi-Han, brought back to live.

Unlike any MKX E3 content I've seen and heard since, the E3 trailer during the Sony press conference had audio on the characters sounding off on each other before the fight and Sub-Zero says "I'm getting tired of professing my innocence to you" (referring to why Scorpion killed him in MK9). To which Scorpion angrily responds with "Well allow me to relive you of your burden!" And then the fight starts.

I think that either the good guys or bad guys (obviously not Shinnok/Quan Chi/Brotherhood of Shadow/Team Netherrealm) succeeds in getting Noob brought back to live as Sub-Zero.

That's possible, or maybe something happened within the spam of 25 years between a new sub zero and scorpion or a revived Kuai Liang. bear in mind that Cyber Sub Zero died in the game, so the younger sub zero could have been brought back as a human.

But that's a good theory you have there, Bi-Han, as far as I recall was never truly bad, he was just turned evil as Noob.

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KaneRobot

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Maybe it'll be Sub-Zero from The Running Man.

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Does it really matter? Mortal Kombat is batshit insanity and whatever the reason for Sub Zero being alive is will be dumb as hell and I will love it.

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#13  Edited By FLStyle

Does it really matter? Mortal Kombat is batshit insanity and whatever the reason for Sub Zero being alive is will be dumb as hell and I will love it.

You're seriously asking us if a storyline we've been following since MK1 really matters? If it didn't matter I very much doubt Ed Boon would still be adding to the story and have made the best 2 fighting game story modes up to now in MK9 and Injustice.

You remind me of Patrick and his dismissive attitude towards other video game storylines in games that he only plays for his and your so-called batshit insanity. I don't get either of you at all, it's like you're excited for only playing half a game or something.

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Corevi

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#14  Edited By Corevi

@flstyle: I'm just saying that considering the way Mortal Kombat works it's highly unlikely that anyone will be able to guess it. I'm sure if you are actually into MK's story it will be good but I don't understand the need for pointless speclation.

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@flstyle: I'm just saying that considering the way Mortal Kombat works it's highly unlikely that anyone will be able to guess it.

Well if I'm completely wrong then I'll hold my hands up and say so, but we're going to keep guessing with the facts we have regardless.

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Hailinel

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@flstyle: MK9 and Injustice had far from the best story modes. In one, there's no chapter select and thr final boss is bullshit. The other has an overreliance on a few select characters. Companies like Arc System Works innovated in the fighting game story mode long before MK9 showed up.

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Dixavd

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Wait, how does this series work? How can people die? Is there some contextualisation of the fatalities? In the story, are they scripted? Is there some other level of killing that would stop a character coming back?

Mortal Kombat confuses me.

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SethPhotopoulos

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@hailinel said:

@flstyle: MK9 and Injustice had far from the best story modes. In one, there's no chapter select and thr final boss is bullshit. The other has an overreliance on a few select characters. Companies like Arc System Works innovated in the fighting game story mode long before MK9 showed up.

I can't stand behind that statement. ArcSys has a confusing and fairly obtuse system for its story modes. MK9 and Injustice makes sense at the very least 'cause you can tell where all the threads connect rather than something like BlazBlue that's a jumbled mess of webs. To be fair BlazBlue does seem like it's embracing the whole tangled web of madness thing it has going for it.

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@dixavd said:

Wait, how does this series work? How can people die? Is there some contextualisation of the fatalities? In the story, are they scripted? Is there some other level of killing that would stop a character coming back?

Mortal Kombat confuses me.

Fatalities aren't in the story mode.

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@hailinel said:

@flstyle: MK9 and Injustice had far from the best story modes. In one, there's no chapter select and thr final boss is bullshit. The other has an overreliance on a few select characters. Companies like Arc System Works innovated in the fighting game story mode long before MK9 showed up.

I'm pretty sceptic how an anime fighting game could have that much influence on the genre to be considered innovative, but by all means please explain what they do that makes them good.

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KaneRobot

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@hailinel said:

@flstyle: MK9 and Injustice had far from the best story modes. In one, there's no chapter select and thr final boss is bullshit. The other has an overreliance on a few select characters. Companies like Arc System Works innovated in the fighting game story mode long before MK9 showed up.

The most important element of a story mode is a chapter select. MK's superior story is irrelevant. Without a chapter select, MK just can't hold up.

The final boss being "bullshit" is a statement that's nice and vague. No idea if you mean from a story perspective or from "he is so cheap" perspective. If you think it's the former, I.m not sure what to tell you. I can't help you.

If it's the latter, you'll lose the first few/several times you fight him. Then you learn what to do. At least I'd hope.

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Hailinel

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@flstyle said:

@hailinel said:

@flstyle: MK9 and Injustice had far from the best story modes. In one, there's no chapter select and thr final boss is bullshit. The other has an overreliance on a few select characters. Companies like Arc System Works innovated in the fighting game story mode long before MK9 showed up.

I'm pretty sceptic how an anime fighting game could have that much influence on the genre to be considered innovative, but by all means please explain what they do that makes them good.

The fact that you're already casting arrogant judgment on them by calling them out as "anime fighting games" makes me doubt that you'd take me seriously, anyway. But anyway...

The only thing that Mortal Kombat did of note was string multiple characters' stories together in a forced chronological order. Injustice does the same thing, but advances things only slightly by adding a chapter select for completed chapters, but then asks you to play multiple sections of the story as Batman. Oh, and Evil Superman is an easier final boss than Shao Kahn. I'll give it that.

Let's compare this to BlazBlue. First of all, each playable character in BlazBlue, aside from the final boss, is not only a part of the story, but a playable part of the story. Contrast this to both MK and Injustice, which leave a number of characters on the sidelines in terms of playability, regardless of their importance to the story. Not once in Injustice do you play as Harley, for example, despite taking control of Batman three times.

The BlazBlue story mode allows characters to be played in an order chosen by the player (up to a point, as the player must unlock the stories of some characters by playing as other characters first). Each character's story is given as much time and as much depth, if not more so, than the characters in MK and Injustice. Fancy cinematics between matches? No, the presentation is largely inspired by visual novels, up to and including the ability to make choices regarding certain dialogue options or actions. These lead to branching story paths for each character, though it's up to the player to unlock the canon story of each fighter, and ultimately unlock the path to the story's true ending. But those other paths, the ones that lead to other endings, are just as valuable, as they provide extra character interaction off the beaten path. Sort of like the sillier endings in the MK and Injustice Arcade Modes, integrated into the story. But the canon story and true ending are incentives; rewards for exploring all of the avenues available.

And while you hasten to chastise these games for being "anime," let's take a look at he games you're favoring for a second. Mortal Kombat is a massive reboot of the entire franchise's canon, which is commendable. But at its core, the story is pretty goofy, with interdimensional barbarian overlords, cybernetic ninja warriors, gods, actors, cops, evil sorcerers, and a martial arts tournament that's basically Enter the Dragon from Hell. That's far more "anime" than a lot of anime that I've seen. And as for Injustice, it's a cornball story that would be goofy even by comic book standards, with evil alternate universe dopplegangers, pills that instantly make mortal Earthlings capable of taking a super-beating, and the whole story takes place because Nega-Superman went crazy and became evil. Going to the Evil Superman well is not what I would call the most original concept when it comes to stories in the DC Universe.

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@hailinel: I didn't pick the name anime fighting game, that's what the section of the fighting game community that plays these games calls themselves. In any case don't be an anime hater, applying negative connotations to the word anime like it's still 2007 and anime is for jerks only became a thing yesterday. And these specific fighting games are niche to the overall genre. And niche aspects is very rarely innovative on the whole regardless of how good it is. This isn't judgement on my part, it's all facts set in place before I even knew what the FGC was.

As for what you've described I refer you to what @kanerobot said. Dialogue options? Unlocking the actual canon story? Playing as one character but not the other? That's all gameplay, you haven't even told me what this canon story is and how it's better than MK9 and Injustice.

Yeah MK9 and Injustice has interdimensional barbarian overlords and alternate universe dopplegangers. And it's all told on a big cinematic scale with cool cut-scenes and voice acting that puts Capcom games to shame. The fact that this thread exists speaks for the MK's backstory and universe. And Injustice pulls from DC history and actually makes it work. What does Arc System Works games bring to the table? I ask again for this so-called innovation you speak of.

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@flstyle said:

@hailinel: I didn't pick the name anime fighting game, that's what the section of the fighting game community that plays these games calls themselves. In any case don't be an anime hater, applying negative connotations to the word anime like it's still 2007 and anime is for jerks only became a thing yesterday. And these specific fighting games are niche to the overall genre. And niche aspects is very rarely innovative on the whole regardless of how good it is. This isn't judgement on my part, it's all facts set in place before I even knew what the FGC was.

As for what you've described I refer you to what @kanerobot said. Dialogue options? Unlocking the actual canon story? Playing as one character but not the other? That's all gameplay, you haven't even told me what this canon story is and how it's better than MK9 and Injustice.

Yeah MK9 and Injustice has interdimensional barbarian overlords and alternate universe dopplegangers. And it's all told on a big cinematic scale with cool cut-scenes and voice acting that puts Capcom games to shame. The fact that this thread exists speaks for the MK's backstory and universe. And Injustice pulls from DC history and actually makes it work. What does Arc System Works games bring to the table? I ask again for this so-called innovation you speak of.

I was speaking mechnically from the start. Telling a good story isn't revolutionary. Telling a story in a mechanically interesting fashion is what I'm getting at. Again, there is nothing special about what Mortal Kombat or Injustice do. They're fairly standard stories told in a linear fashion. That's not a novel thing.

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reverendhunt

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Not only did this go woefully off-topic, it somehow got detached from the subject and onto the general MKX forum.

I has a sad.

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@hailinel: actually there's something special. It was pretty much like a Mortal Kombat movie. A pretty fun one by the way even if it did not make any sense. Most stories are linear so I'll ignore this complaint of yours. Also, not being linear doesn't make it better nor is something new. Yes, it's goofy but that work in its favour. It's Mortal Kombat! Actually Blazblue's story is not "mechanically" interesting. Especially when you have to die ON PURPOSE several times! If anything it can be a pain in butt. I could argue that MK's presentation is also better instead of standard visual novel presentation that looks like a lazy high resolution 90s visual novel with voice acting. Not being able to play some characters can be a good thing. Either way it's irrelevant. It's a design choice and what's good or not depends on the game.

As you see, it's easy to criticise. I could also complain about loads of things in MK but I believe it gets deserved praise. I believe it was an unfortunate and unnecessary comparison.

I like both games by the way. Also enjoy the story modes. I just don't see that revolution or superiority in Blazblue. They're also so different in most respects that I find it hard to compare to be honest.

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@flstyle: I have a similar theory,

I think it is Bi-Han, although I think he was resurrected by the forces of good. First reason of this, Quan Chi and Noob, considered Noob an "improvement" on his previous life. Also, he was thrown by Nightwolf into Quan Chi's portal to the heavens, last person to be thrown into one of those was Scorpion (Deadly Alliance), the purity destroyed Scorpions essence as a wraith, then he returned as a champion of the elder gods...(Ok so by this theory he should have returned human for deception lol but who knows what those twisted elder gods were thinking)

Then again, we don't know if this sub zero is strictly human now (glowing blue eyes?)

Only part I can't explain is that Sub Zero still has Lin Kuei symbols on his outfit. Unless he over through Sektor, but it's too similar to the original timeline.

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It's just some guy named Kelvin.

... I'll let myself out.

Ohhhhhhh I hope to hell you're one of the developers. Goddamn.

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MKF30

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@starvinggamer: lol not a gimmick the variations are a integral part of the gameplay and offer diversity and more options to the player's style. MK, SF and KOF have all done this before in previous games anyway...

They could take that path but doubtful, the comic MKX that's canon hints that if anything it is leaning more towards Kuai Liang(aka Tundra aka Second Younger Sub-Zero) but the one in the game has no scar on his face yet the one in the comic does so who knows...time will tell. Plus the in game voice leak of Sub-Zero vs. Quan-Chi, intros also hint this QC says "Your brother succumbed easily" Sub's responce "I'm not my brother!" Now, remember in MK 9 when Bi-Han aka Noob-Saibot later on fought Cyber Sub/Kuai Liang, he said "we share blood, but we are not brothers..."

Only Kuai Liang referred to Bi-Han as "his brother" of course there's still possibilities for a third brother or new relative or new Cyromancer all together...

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ripelivejam

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maybe he's wolverine aka bub zero

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@mkf30: So 3 different variations for each character is not a special feature that makes MKX stand out from its contemporaries?

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@flstyle said:

@reverendhunt said:

It seems a bit early to be assuming he's not Bi-Han or Kuai Liang. I know Ed teased the "Sub-Zero factory" concept of the Lin Kuei, but we really don't know who this is yet.

Bear with me here, but I have a theory that it's the Elder Sub-Zero AKA Noob Saibot AKA Bi-Han, brought back to live.

Unlike any MKX E3 content I've seen and heard since, the E3 trailer during the Sony press conference had audio on the characters sounding off on each other before the fight and Sub-Zero says "I'm getting tired of professing my innocence to you" (referring to why Scorpion killed him in MK9). To which Scorpion angrily responds with "Well allow me to relive you of your burden!" And then the fight starts.

I think that either the good guys or bad guys (obviously not Shinnok/Quan Chi/Brotherhood of Shadow/Team Netherrealm) succeeds in getting Noob brought back to live as Sub-Zero.

so to add to that especially now that they are flipping around the timelines, in Deadly alliance, Scorpion was knocked into a Soulnado, and then in Deception he became a good guy.

in Mk9, Bi Han was knocked into the soulnado by nightwolf so he could very well be the subzero for MKX.

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SchrodngrsFalco

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Wait.. There's a story mode in MK games? Huh..

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Corevi

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#34  Edited By Corevi
@hurricaneivan29 said:

Wait.. There's a story mode in MK games? Huh..

The one in MK9 was quite good. Never played the PS2 era games but from all accounts the story mode was the best part of those.

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Maybe it'll be Sub-Zero from The Running Man.

God, I hope not. That guy's more like Plain Zero.

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#36  Edited By Do_The_Manta_Ray
@mrfluke said:

@flstyle said:

@reverendhunt said:

It seems a bit early to be assuming he's not Bi-Han or Kuai Liang. I know Ed teased the "Sub-Zero factory" concept of the Lin Kuei, but we really don't know who this is yet.

Bear with me here, but I have a theory that it's the Elder Sub-Zero AKA Noob Saibot AKA Bi-Han, brought back to live.

Unlike any MKX E3 content I've seen and heard since, the E3 trailer during the Sony press conference had audio on the characters sounding off on each other before the fight and Sub-Zero says "I'm getting tired of professing my innocence to you" (referring to why Scorpion killed him in MK9). To which Scorpion angrily responds with "Well allow me to relive you of your burden!" And then the fight starts.

I think that either the good guys or bad guys (obviously not Shinnok/Quan Chi/Brotherhood of Shadow/Team Netherrealm) succeeds in getting Noob brought back to live as Sub-Zero.

so to add to that especially now that they are flipping around the timelines, in Deadly alliance, Scorpion was knocked into a Soulnado, and then in Deception he became a good guy.

in Mk9, Bi Han was knocked into the soulnado by nightwolf so he could very well be the subzero for MKX.

NeverRealms ran a stream last night, in which they introduced two more characters to the mix. Reptile and Ermac. There continues to be a ton of banter between the specific selections before a fight, and in one of 'em, Ermac faces Sub-Zero and announces that "Your soul is corrupted", to which Sub-Zero responds. "Not corrupted, freed."

Guys.. I think we're getting the original Sub-Zero back. It'd make sense considering Scorpion's been freed from Quan Chi's control, as well. But that also means no Noob, which is crushing to me.

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Guys.. I think we're getting the original Sub-Zero back. It'd make sense considering Scorpion's been freed from Quan Chi's control, as well. But that also means no Noob, which is crushing to me.

I wouldn't count Noob out just yet. The MK universe is nothing if not ridiculously flexible. I wouldn't be surprised to see another Lin Kuei get Noobified, or maybe some timeline shenanigans that allow for two Bi-Hans because fuck it, Mortal Kombat do how Mortal Kombat do.

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#38  Edited By Do_The_Manta_Ray

@shagge: You're right, it's still possible given how gloriously dumb MK lore can be, though I think it seems very unlikely given both the status quo and the fact that Noob is a far cry from the most iconic character. I played a ton of him in MK9 myself, but almost never ran into anyone else playing him at a decent level.

Hell, who knows, maybe Cyber Sub-Zero gets "noobified" given that he's already under Quan Chi's control as the original Sub-Zero used to be. Think about that one for a moment.

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#39  Edited By PrivodOtmenit

Reading this thread made me realise people take the MK story seriously. Whaaaaaaaaaaaat, I didn't expect that.

The story mode was neat because well, fighting games don't do story modes well. It was still goofy (in a charming way) and completely forgettable, outside of it being robust for the genre.

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#40  Edited By mrfluke

@do_the_manta_ray said:
@mrfluke said:

@flstyle said:

@reverendhunt said:

It seems a bit early to be assuming he's not Bi-Han or Kuai Liang. I know Ed teased the "Sub-Zero factory" concept of the Lin Kuei, but we really don't know who this is yet.

Bear with me here, but I have a theory that it's the Elder Sub-Zero AKA Noob Saibot AKA Bi-Han, brought back to live.

Unlike any MKX E3 content I've seen and heard since, the E3 trailer during the Sony press conference had audio on the characters sounding off on each other before the fight and Sub-Zero says "I'm getting tired of professing my innocence to you" (referring to why Scorpion killed him in MK9). To which Scorpion angrily responds with "Well allow me to relive you of your burden!" And then the fight starts.

I think that either the good guys or bad guys (obviously not Shinnok/Quan Chi/Brotherhood of Shadow/Team Netherrealm) succeeds in getting Noob brought back to live as Sub-Zero.

so to add to that especially now that they are flipping around the timelines, in Deadly alliance, Scorpion was knocked into a Soulnado, and then in Deception he became a good guy.

in Mk9, Bi Han was knocked into the soulnado by nightwolf so he could very well be the subzero for MKX.

NeverRealms ran a stream last night, in which they introduced two more characters to the mix. Reptile and Ermac. There continues to be a ton of banter between the specific selections before a fight, and in one of 'em, Ermac faces Sub-Zero and announces that "Your soul is corrupted", to which Sub-Zero responds. "Not corrupted, freed."

Guys.. I think we're getting the original Sub-Zero back. It'd make sense considering Scorpion's been freed from Quan Chi's control, as well. But that also means no Noob, which is crushing to me.

which that means if the scorpion in the game is hanzo, then its the pure old school rivalry,

him being bi-han makes sense, especially with the prequel comic, This subzero is looking for quan chi, (which he was the one who disguised himself as subzero and framed him)

and hey, you never know on noob, cyber subzero died at the end of 9, quan chi being the dick he is, could bring him back as noob.

like im still confused on how ermac is back, i know no one really dies in MK, but im curious of where he stands if he's the good ermac, or the bad ermac for mkx.